Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[rmsh1]

I have to go back to changing Emma's nappy once during the night as we woke to wet bedding this morning She is still waking 3-4 times a night, no matter what time she goes to bed. Trying to feed her a little more during the day, but not really noticing much difference. Last night she woke after three hours, then 2 hours, then 2 hours, and then at 7am due to wet nappy leaking, so we got up. She doesn't even feed every two hours during the day, more like 2.5-3 hours

 

[polaris]

I have to go back to changing Emma's nappy once during the night as we woke to wet bedding this morning She is still waking 3-4 times a night, no matter what time she goes to bed. Trying to feed her a little more during the day, but not really noticing much difference. Last night she woke after three hours, then 2 hours, then 2 hours, and then at 7am due to wet nappy leaking, so we got up. She doesn't even feed every two hours during the day, more like 2.5-3 hours

What nappies are you using for night-times? Maybe go up a size for the night nappy, it will give you more absorbency.

 

[rmsh1]

Yeah she is at the end of fitting these nappies. We use treasures. I am trying to finish up these nappies, as we use cloth during the day time. Only disposable at night time. SHe is currently around 6kg, and is wearing nappies for babies up to 7kg, so she can easily move into the next size up, just don't want to waste what we have

 

[seaweed eater]

Time to catch up! I'm sure I'll miss someone, but here goes...

Stephie - I'm sorry to hear DH has moved downstairs. Hope your nights start getting more restful. And that the crying stops -- it's hard to hear them wake up unhappy. Are things still going better during the day with 3, 3.5, 3.5? Where are those teeth?? So funny btw, Munchkin won't nurse lying down either. I haven't met many other moms whose babies won't!

Noelle - Are things going better? I hope so I hear molars can be really tough. Definitely dreading it. When are you leaving on your travels? It seems like she does adjust well, so I'm sure you'll be able to resolve quickly any disruption that results from traveling!

Shadowy - Munchkin is 21 lbs and we switched to size 4 a few weeks ago. Have you started the Huggies diapers yet? I hope you haven't had any more leaks.

Melly - Sorry things have been up and down. I know it always takes a little while to adjust, and it's hard when things keep changing and you never get to take advantage of LO's better sleep. I hope you get some more rest soon

Vikki - Glad things are going well interesting that you had a good one-nap day! Maybe you will be ready to transition to one nap soon.

Gaia - So sorry you've had a tough week. it sounds like you have good reason to keep blaming teething! He does keep getting teeth! It's when no teeth ever appear that it really seems ridiculous. And separation anxiety can really make bedtime difficult no matter what, and I think crawling might really be to blame for the bedtime struggles. I'm sorry you are going through this again (or still)...I know it really sucks to start dreading every evening. You already know that this will pass...but really! It will!!!

DJ - How are things going? I think you've gotten good advice and I hope it's continued to be better! Does your LO have separation anxiety during the day? Mine does, and I know when I stand in his room while he's trying to sleep it seems to make things worse initially, but later he calms down much much more quickly when I'm there.

Mandi - I wouldn't worry too much about which nap your LO is dropping. She is at the right age to move to 2 naps. I would try going by wake times for a 2 nap schedule (something like 2/3/4 or 3/3.5/3.5, or adjust depending on how many hours of sleep she gets per day) and see if that causes the naps to extend. It does really quickly for most babies, but not for all -- up until this week mine was having 80%+ short naps (45 min or less) and he still refused a third nap most days, so two was still the right thing for us. But that probably won't happen to you!

Rmsh - How are things going? I think white noise is considered better than music because it's more neutral and consistent, so it's better at masking other noises and it's exactly the same whenever LO wakes up and hears it. But if music is working then I don't think it's a big deal. I hope you've had some more good nights! 2 wakings is great for an EBF baby her age IMO. I wouldn't go down the road of questioning your supply...you've managed to feed a healthy, growing baby this long so I'm sure you are fine! It's normal for it to be a bit lower in the evenings. What some people do is pump in the mornings when they find they have extra, and then give a bottle in the evening to balance things out. But if just offering more seems to help, then wonderful.
Regarding nappies, I would definitely go up a size. Maybe use the leftovers during the day if they still work for that?

Amy - I'm glad for the good nights but sorry to hear about the bad ones! I hope those teeth are out soon and you and LO both get more rest it sounds like things might be better on the whole though, is that right?

NotNic - I love reading about your sweet boy! I hope his mouth feels better soon! Glad that WIO is feeling like the right option.

Polaris - I hope things have continued to go better! So glad Clara is sleeping better and you are feeling more relaxed (about Thomas too!).

Kettle - Did it end up being the sleep suit or the draped blanket? I hope naps have continued to be good!

Rachel - :wave: sorry you have had to find your way to this thread! I think at this age sometimes they just get too excited to sleep I was going to give you similar advice about wake times so definitely try that. And if LO is fighting, make sure you are doing something stimulating during every WT...in particular, make sure to give him plenty of practice for any new motor skills (is he working on any of those at the moment?). Short naps are not necessarily the kiss of death if your LO seems rested. Just move bedtime earlier so that the WTs don't stretch too much. Yes, my understanding is the same as Polaris' and NN's, that the last WT matters the most.

AFM! Things are pretty great! Munchkin is settling well and usually waking once or twice per night. I've been nursing each time, with the exception of once last week, but taking him off and putting him down awake. I wish there were a way for him to get more sleep at night though...it's often less than 10 hours and I can tell it's not enough for him, but he won't go down earlier most nights and he's already sleeping until 6-6:30 most mornings (knock on wood) so I don't expect him to sleep much later. The evening car nap is a real problem. He's going to be starting full days at daycare next month cry so I know our routines are going to change a lot anyway, but hopefully I will be able to pick him up earlier most days and then he can get to bed earlier.

I'm a little nervous, though, about the fact that he has to get used to two new beds in the next couple of months...one in his new room at daycare, and then the pack 'n' play when we go away in August for a few days. He seems to be very attached to his particular crib mattress now. The pack 'n' play is at my parents' house right now and I've tried using it for naps, but he hates it and won't sleep there. I don't want to go through a whole new transition where I have to put the pack 'n' play in his room and gradually get him used to it...it took so long for him to get used to his crib in the first place, remember. But I'm afraid that's what we will have to do, and I'm dreading it. Unless some of you have other ideas??

 

[Aimee4311]

Seaweed-your updates and responses are awesome! Just wanted to throw that out there!

Just an update on us- not nursing to sleep and dropping to only 2 naps was going really well! Until Tuesday. Tuesday, Josalyn decided it was time to get mobile and started trying really hard. As of yesterday (Wednesday) she's officially mobile. It's not a normal crawl, it's a mixture between the army crawl and the worm but I know she'll get better at it!

On Tuesday, Josalyn had three shorter naps- only about 45 minutes. That night she would not fall asleep because she wanted to badly to nurse! She was crying tears of frustration and she kept latching to anything she could get her mouth on...my shirt, my belly, the top of my chest, my arm (I've got bruises on my arm from that night!) I could tell she needed it to fall asleep, and as soon as I gave in and nursed her, she was asleep!

It's been the same since then. 3 short naps per day and needing to nurse to sleep.

She's got a lot going on right now, so I'm just going with the flow!

 

[gaiagirl]

rachelkt - I have to say, those sleep increments sound really good and normal to me for under 3 months! Do you have any prefolds/inserts and covers? I often put an insert on top of a disposable and a cover over the whole thing! Actually I think SE gave me that idea, lol.

Aimee - Sounds like we are in similar spots with all this crazy development going on.

SE - I am so glad things seem to be going well!

Sorry couldn't read much past this page, just quickly stopping in! Still crazy today, lots of tears, which is really unlike him...so just waiting this craziness out!

 

[seaweed eater]

Poor F...hope he feels better soon!

Aimee, sounds like a good call. You know J best and if it seems like she is going through something that is increasing her need to nurse, and you are happy to provide that need, then great!

 

[rmsh1]

rachelkt - I have to say, those sleep increments sound really good and normal to me for under 3 months! Do you have any prefolds/inserts and covers? I often put an insert on top of a disposable and a cover over the whole thing! Actually I think SE gave me that idea, lol.

Think this was meant for me? Cannot believe I did not think to put a cover over the disposable Although the leak was all up her back. Will try tonight, thanks!

 

[seaweed eater]

Rmsh, we've had one or two leaks with just a cover too, you may want to put something absorbent in there over the sposie or a wool cover would do the trick.

 

[rmsh1]

Will put an insert in too

 

[stephie_corin]

Sounds like some good news and not so good news! Sorry to everyone who is struggling.

Polaris, I have no idea why he won't nurse lying down - when we try it goes like this: I latch him on, he feeds for 30 seconds, rolls over and looks around, rolls back, latches on for 30 seconds, rolls over and looks around... Repeat until mummy gets sick of leaking milk everywhere and picks him up. Lol. SE - so funny about Munchkin not liking nursing lying down either. Polaris do you think it's something I should persevere with - it would be so handy if he'd do it! I hope you had a fun baby free evening with DH did the kids sleep well?

I've lost any ability to soothe him while lying down. With each wakeup he has to be picked up and rocked or nursed - usually both!

Rachel, I'm sure Noelle has said in the past that the last wake-time is the most important. I'd keep a close eye on his total awake time and try and keep it close to 10 hours if possible so as to avoid a sleep deficit. So if he's already done 7 hours awake, maybe try put him down as close to 3 hours awake as possible after the last nap. Noelle - is this the right approach??

Rmsh, nappy leaks are the worst! We get them reasonably frequently as Cully takes most of his milk at night and pees a lot! I've definitely had luck putting him in the next size up.

OT- my little chubster has been in huggies size 4+ since 4 months and is now wearing size 5 at night! Lol.

SE, you might find full days at daycare are brilliant for his routine. I think you said he sleeps reasonably well there during the day? If he's having both naps there it might give him some good consistency. Hugs to you though! Leaving him a full day will be tough!! As for the pack and play, I think you should put it completely out of your mind. It's still 6 weeks to August and that is an eternity in baby time. You may find he's very mobile by then and falling asleep exhausted or is so stimulated by all the new things on holiday he falls asleep exhausted and doesn't mind where he has been put down. Well, you can live in hope! Although I'm sure you are like me and there is no way you will be able to put it out of your mind how are you getting to your destination? If you are driving and you think there is no way he will sleep without his mattress, could you pop it in the car and place it in the pack and play?

Aimee, yay for crawling! Congratulations to Josalyn! Is nursing to sleep affecting her night sleep?

Gaia, I feel your pain quite literally. I'm so sorry F is struggling so much. I really hope things get better soon.

We are having a bit of a nightmare. He's doing an amazing stretch of 3-4 hours at the beginning of the night but from 10 PM -5.30 AM he is waking crying and is really hard to settle. The wakings vary from hourly to every 15 minutes. I gave iboprufen last night and it didn't make a difference. So I'm not sure if it's teething or if he is just so uncomfortable even pain meds don't work.

He's also taking a monster nap in the afternoon now. 2 hours and I usually have to wake him. I do help him back to sleep 2 times in the nap but its because he wakes crying. I'm concerned this 2 hour nap combined with his 1 hour morning nap is too much day sleep for him. I know it's not for a normal baby but I'm concerned it's throwing our his circadian rhythm or something - or am I clutching at straws?!?

He has such big circles under his eyes. I wish so badly he was sleeping better.

I hope everyone has a great day xxx

 

[seaweed eater]

I'm so sorry hon it is so hard when they look tired and all you want is to help them sleep better! And hourly or less is so so demanding.

I think 3 hours might be too much for Munchkin. He's rarely had more than 2.5 hours since he was tiny. If he were routinely getting 3 hours during the day and not sleeping well at night I would have the same question as you. But the next question is what to do about it. I guess not help him back to sleep the second time...have you ever tried that? Does he calm down/perk up, or does he stay grumpy? Either way I guess it might be something to try for a few days.

What do you mean when you say he is really hard to settle? Is he hard to calm down? Or does he calm down quickly but then not go to sleep? I don't have any advice in mind based on this. It just seems really unusual to be waking up crying that often despite your having given medication.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks SE, he wakes crying and I nurse him first and then usually rock him back to sleep. He's calm in my arms but when I put him down and he usually starts crying right away or wakes up a few minutes later crying. I have to make sure he is in a deep sleep before I put him down - maybe it's separation anxiety too!? I have no idea. He's the picture of health and happy during the day and from the moment he opens his eyes in the morning.

I do hold him or snuggle him for most naps so he's used to me being there when he sleeps - but he does do the 3-4 hours without me at the start of the night...

He's putting everything in his mouth at the moment and gnawing on it. I'm certain his front teeth can't be too far away.

I think I'll try and cap his naps at 1 hour each today and see how he goes.

Oh! And I forgot to try and limit his night feeds last night so I will try that as well tonight.

 

[gaiagirl]

Stephie sounds hard for you too! Soon we will both be looking back on this phase I hope

Nursing lying down has literally been the best thing ever for me. There ARE times like at bedtime when F will pull the same stunts as C rolling around and being crazy, but I can usually shhhhhh and calm him into submission. Lol. I tuck his legs up to me and hold his top hand and shhhhhhhhhhh and usually it does the trick.

Is C doing that even at night wakings? For us, night wakings are barely wakings, he just tosses his head around and gets restless until I latch him on and then we both drift back off. This is why I loooooove nursing this way. On our good nights I don't even remember waking up.

I honestly think its worth trying a bit more, because if you could get him latched on sleepily in the MOTN then you wouldn't need to worry about rocking or getting him into a deep sleep and putting him down, you just fall asleep nursing!

Babies are all soooooo different so maybe that's just not his thing but I think it would make your life much easier

 

[stephie_corin]

Stephie sounds hard for you too! Soon we will both be looking back on this phase I hope

Nursing lying down has literally been the best thing ever for me. There ARE times like at bedtime when F will pull the same stunts as C rolling around and being crazy, but I can usually shhhhhh and calm him into submission. Lol. I tuck his legs up to me and hold his top hand and shhhhhhhhhhh and usually it does the trick.

Is C doing that even at night wakings? For us, night wakings are barely wakings, he just tosses his head around and gets restless until I latch him on and then we both drift back off. This is why I loooooove nursing this way. On our good nights I don't even remember waking up.

I honestly think its worth trying a bit more, because if you could get him latched on sleepily in the MOTN then you wouldn't need to worry about rocking or getting him into a deep sleep and putting him down, you just fall asleep nursing!

Babies are all soooooo different so maybe that's just not his thing but I think it would make your life much easier

Your description of your best nights is exactly what I hoped to get out of bed sharing! But instead I have to pick up my big lump (lol) from a sitting position and awkwardly rock him and nurse him right... Starting next nap we are going to nail nursing lying down!! You've inspired me to keep trying!

And yes, every night waking I'm picking him up. It's bad for both of us as I'm sure it wakes him more. I really regret not starting bed sharing when he was younger but he was in the cot by our bed and sometimes bad sharing in the early hours, so he never had to get the hang of nursing lying down. Ah well, live and learn! Next baby is going to be a perfect sleeper of course thanks for this Gaia!

 

[polaris]

Steph It does sound like a bit of a nightmare at the moment. Those very frequent wakings are a killer, especially if you have to properly sit up and lift him up every time.

I agree with gaiagirl about persisting with nursing lying down if at all possible. It is so fantastic for night wakings, I can feed Clara at night now without properly waking up at all and I actually couldn't tell you how many times she fed over the course of the night, I only really remember the wakings when she cries and is more difficult to settle. As I said, Thomas never got the hang of it but that was because of latch issues. Clara sometimes does the pulling off thing that you describe but I am quite firm with her and keep my arm around her to stop her from rolling over and she generally settles down quite quickly.

 

[freddie]

Stephie - have you tried cushions to help with nursing lying down? LO and I just couldn't get the hang of it for ages but I used a pillow behind him for a while to sort of wedge him into me and now he does it no problem and no cushions needed I didn't know about the total wake tome of 10 hours... I will keep an eye on that! Don't know if this is a silly question but would that include the time he is awake during the night?!

Ok so sounds like I need to be most wary of that last wake time being too long... Argh it feels like trying to work out some sort of puzzle! And I swear no matter what I do, whether he has good naps or bad, short WTs or long, it makes no difference to his night time sleep I know I shouldn't get despondent but I feel I'm losing my resolve! Last night was horrible, he woke his normal 5 or 6 times, was awake for about 2 hours between 1 and 3 and then up for the day at 5.30....

He's napping on me now as he usually sleeps well that way and I just really want him to catch up some sleep.

 

[freddie]

Seaweed - he has recently started to crawl... I try to encourage him as much as I can to do this throughout the day as I think it tires him out! He does this funny little army crawl that makes him look like a little worm sliding across the floor He has lots of stimulation during wake times .

Talking about stimulation - what do people do for calming/ wind down before bed? He used to calm quite easily in the evening but lately he has been going wild! He seems to get this burst of energy after his bath and just want to crawl everywhere/ touch everything... If I pick him up to try to cuddle he pretty much beats me up to climb out of my arms! We have stories and relaxing music but he won't even stay still for his story a lot of the time now!! He's loopy!

 

[mrssunshine78]

Am kind of scared to update, but will anyway, feel like I'm jinxing myself!! So Jasmine's sleep has improved lots, we had our holiday and she woke at 4am every day (was 6am Greek time) and we thought uh oh we're in trouble when we get home. We allowed her to get back into being at home for a couple of nights before thinking about CC, the first night we tried it I had to go in twice to tell her it was sleepy time, she had about 30-35 minutes of crying, the second night I went in once to tell her it was sleepy time and we had about 20 minutes of crying, the third night I didn't even have to go in as she settled herself within 5 minutes, then last night she slept through!!! She's been waking around 530, but going back off until 6-630, it's amazing!!! We have started giving her a bottle of formula on a night instead of me bf, so it's maybe a combination of CC and the fact that she's not hungry anymore?? Whichever it is I'm so relieved, I'm going back to work in a few weeks so hoping this continues.

Good luck to everyone, really hope your lo's start sleeping better

 

[stephie_corin]

I think I have the most stubborn, wilful baby. I lay him down and he did his usual rolling around and then when he realised I wasn't picking him up he got hysterical and was kicking his legs like he was having a proper tantrum. He stopped as soon as I picked him up. I'll give him one side and then lie him down for the second.

Thanks so much for the tips Polaris and Rachel!

Rachel I'm so so sorry you are feeling so down. Don't be despondent - things will get better. A few weeks ago Cully was waking every sleep cycle and by persevering with a good day time routine he's shown me he can do at least 4 with no help from me. Regarding the 10 hour thing - it makes sense to me that if they are meant to get 14 hours sleep each 24 to try and limit their awake time, which is one if the few things we can control (somedays )

Sunshine, I'm so glad you had such good progress! Good luck back at work.

Edit - OMG second side worked great! I wedged him with the pillow, put my arms around him, tucked his legs in (thanks to all three of you!) and it worked! I'm just wondering how you change sides in the night? Do you move baby or lean forward to give the other side?

Thanks everyone!