Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[polaris]

Thanks Polaris, I know I shouldn't worry about it not working out today... There is always tomorrow...

Does anyone else wonder what it is that makes some babies just seem totally unable to sleep without all kinds of props/ enticing/ encouragement and others just sleep through the night from day one?! In my nct group all the other babies just sleep. They are put in their cot and they sleep. Just like that. JEALOUS!

I like to think that we have very alert and intelligent babies with very strong personalities and huge interest in the world around them, and that their struggles with sleep are just an unwanted side-effect of everything that makes them so wonderful. LOL.

(Tongue in cheek here, I'm obviously not really saying that these mystical babies who actually sleep aren't any of these things).

 

[AmyS]

AmyS - there are some differences to pu/pd. The thing I actually liked about NCSS is that she says not to worry if you try and try but it's not working on a particular night - just go back to your normal way of getting baby to sleep that night and try again tomorrow. It makes it feel so much more achievable than some things I've read like Baby Whisperer where it seems you are expected to battle the baby's will no matter what. She explains it in a way that encourages you to feel successful if you are putting your plan into place *most* of the time, rather than only if you're managing it all the time iykwim

Good luck with reading/ planning... I'm with you on that!

Yes, I remember that, she was much more positive and relaxed about it! I'm all for a gradual process.

 

[freddie]

Thanks Polaris, I know I shouldn't worry about it not working out today... There is always tomorrow...

Does anyone else wonder what it is that makes some babies just seem totally unable to sleep without all kinds of props/ enticing/ encouragement and others just sleep through the night from day one?! In my nct group all the other babies just sleep. They are put in their cot and they sleep. Just like that. JEALOUS!

I like to think that we have very alert and intelligent babies with very strong personalities and huge interest in the world around them, and that their struggles with sleep are just an unwanted side-effect of everything that makes them so wonderful. LOL.

(Tongue in cheek here, I'm obviously not really saying that these mystical babies who actually sleep aren't any of these things).

Lol, I like it!

 

[Beccaboop]

Can anyone help me please. I think i need a new feeding and sleeping routine for my 5 month old!

Atm he as a bottle at 6am
then comes back to bed with me until 8.30
then as a nap at 10 for about 1.5/2 hours
then i try to get him to nap at about 1/2
then another nap at 4/5pm
then bath, eczema cream applied and bed by 7.30

Atm hes fed at 6am,9 then as we've started weaning he has some 'food' at 12 then a bottle at 12.30 then at 3.30, 6.30 then bath at 7 and bed at 7.30.

We've been advised by the paediatrician to start weaning at 5 months due to weight gain issues and cant drop any bottles. He has 37oz a day so i dont think hes waking cos hes hungry and wont drink water so he must not be thirsty either.

This routine would be great for us it worked but it doesnt! He wakes up between 3 and 7 times a night and is sometimes awake for about 2 hours at a time but mostly he goes back to sleep quickly if i give him his dummy back or after a quick cuddle.

Also he has started really fighting his last nap and it can take up to an hour to get him to sleep for this nap. Ive been told i should move his bedtime earlier and drop a nap but i dont know how id fit in all his feeds if i did this!

He is fed every 3 hours and wont go longer without getting really grumpy and wont finish his bottle if i give it to him earlier and obviously with his weight issues he cant be leaving any of his bottles so i dont want to feed him earlier.

Someone please help me fit in 5 bottles and 1 'meal' and 3 naps in before bedtime! he cant stay awake more than 2/2.5 hours without getting very grumpy so i try to get him to only be awake about 2 hours between naps.

I think a lot of it is to do with his eczema irritating him in the night during the night we reapply his eczema cream (when he wakes up we dot wake him up to do it) and because i started giving him a dummy when he started waking a lot and now hes dependant on it.

Also because he rubs his face at night (im not sure why could be eczema, could be tiredness) so we were still swaddling him but hes learnt how to role on his front and obviously cant get back with his arms in so we're trying 1 arm out but hes just not getting used to it! He just rubs his face and wakes himself up then crys! He was waking up regularly before we starting 1 arm out too its not since we started this that hes started waking.

Help! what can i do? I need a new routine and to teach lo to be unswaddled and not rub his face as well as to get rid of the dummy but i dont know how to do any of it!!

Thanks in advance x

 

[VikkiD]

Vikki, it sounds like he is managing the transition really well! You are lucky! He might still have the odd day when he needs two naps but it sounds like you are well on the way to just having the one nap now.

Thanks Hun he didnt drop to two naps until 8 months so this week as been a real shock today I found is timing better for his nap 12:40 till 2:40 would you aim for that again tomorrow?

 

[polaris]

Vikki, it sounds like he is managing the transition really well! You are lucky! He might still have the odd day when he needs two naps but it sounds like you are well on the way to just having the one nap now.

Thanks Hun he didnt drop to two naps until 8 months so this week as been a real shock today I found is timing better for his nap 12:40 till 2:40 would you aim for that again tomorrow?

Yes that sounds perfect! Good luck.

 

[gaiagirl]

Thanks ladies, I should be more clear that he was half asleep when he rolled away!!!! Lol. I still consider it feeding to sleep...I just didn't have to try 4 times to get my nipple back without waking him! Ha!

Mannnnn this week is rough.

 

[NotNic]

Hi beccaboo! Welcome to the thread. F was an early weaner too. We started at 16 weeks on GPs advice because of the issues he had with trapped wind, colic etc. and I remember the struggle to fit everything in. Has the doctor looked into what is causing the eczema? Where are you with weaning? What sort of food is little one having? We found that the easiest way to get milk ounces in was to use it in the food. We used to give him porridge made using some of his milk ounces. From 6 mths he had a milky breakfast and one dairy meal - macaroni cheese / fish in a white sauce etc. plus yogurts.

Don't worry about giving up the dummy yet. We started phasing it out from 6/7 mths using it as a 'pacifier' - so he has it when he's upset rather than all day everyday use. Some babies do need to be weaned off because its more disruptive than helpful but oersonallu I don't see the rush at this age. I think the eczema has a lot to do with your Los problemss. What are the drs doing to help? xx

 

[seaweed eater]

Some more responses from earlier:

Stephie - thanks for the advice about the new beds and daycare he does sleep reasonably well at daycare at the moment (knock on wood). He's moving classrooms at the same time as he's starting full time, so I'm nervous about that. I'm sure he will adjust in time but I'm afraid of the transition period. I am hoping that an earlier pick-up time will be better for his night sleep, though. Regarding the pack 'n' play...you're right that it's ages from now in baby time; I just feel like if he's going to have the same issue as he did with his crib, we're going to need to start getting him used to it soon! But of course I won't know far enough in advance. So I'm not sure at what point to panic! I think it took about a month before he would sleep all night in his crib IIRC. And now he likes to roll around and stick his legs out between the slats as he's SS, and he can't do either of those in the PNP (since it's smaller and has mesh sides). I wish I could put his mattress in it, but it won't fit.

I was so fascinated to read that you got C to nurse side lying! Munchkin just doesn't get it at all. He just lies there and protests. It doesn't help that I've never been able to get us into position without two pillows and a rolled up blanket. I've given up, since bed sharing is not something I'm really interested in anyway at the moment. Since you guys are doing it, though, it makes all the sense in the world to work on that skill! I hope it starts going more smoothly. I'm sure you and he will get the hang of it.

Is C showing any signs of separation anxiety during the day? The crying once you put him down could certainly be related to that...but sadly I think it could be almost anything else too.

PS, I don't know how diaper sizes work where you are, but if they start at size 1 (rather than "newborn"), your size 5 is our size 4

I hope your night went well

Rachel - don't worry about not getting the WT right. All we can do is try as Polaris (I think) said, he'll get used to it, and you'll also learn more about the optimal time to put him down and how much wind-down he needs. I'm sure in a week or two this will be going much better. I find that better naps have gone along with better nights in a sort of general way, not one-to-one. And it certainly makes for more pleasant days. I really hope your nights get better though, that 1-3 waking is so challenging.

I know I've been hearing recently that some babies just find bath time stimulating and for those babies it isn't great to have toward the end of the bedtime routine. We had a maybe similar thing with pajamas and diaper change (we don't do a bath every night yet) -- used to do those right before nursing and lullabies, but LO started really resisting diaper changes and it just wasn't relaxing enough. So now we read 5 books in between (he's really into books ATM) and that seems to have helped.

Mrssunshine - so happy to read your update! I hope you enjoy being back at work!

Amy - thanks for the reassurance about daycare and beds we put him in his crib for naps for maybe a few weeks, put the bassinet right up against the crib for nighttimes so he could get used to seeing the bars, then finally moved him in there with his bassinet mattress (the same one he now hates in the pack 'n' play ) on top of the crib mattress. After a few nights of that I think he was ok in the crib. Our first attempt was horrible though. He'd been napping well there for two days when we first tried it at night, but he would refuse to settle if he woke up partially, or if I put him down completely asleep would wake up crying 10 minutes later. Something like 4-5 hours of this before we gave up. I hope you have a much easier time with Chloe! I do think the tummy rolling and waking upset is a particular phase many babies go through (mine did). It makes things really tough for a few nights but hopefully in that time they can learn on their own to either roll back or at least not get mad.

Sounds like you do know why she can't sleep as well in the crib -- she's not used to moving around so much. It is great that she sleeps so well in the rock 'n' play though. I'm sure once she gets used to the crib she will be a wonderful sleeper. Many babies sleep even better on their bellies once they get used to it.

Gaia - That DOES sound huge!! I think it is definitely worth getting excited about. Those little steps toward SS can make a really dramatic difference IME. I hope this one does for you!

Polaris - sorry Clara is teething but glad that you were able to provide some relief. Hope this means the teeth are out soon. Which teeth are they? Also, how could you tell so clearly that it was teething??

Becca - Welcome, so sorry you are struggling I'm sorry I don't know much about feeding schedules so don't know what to suggest about that. It does sound like quite a puzzle. What if you gave smaller bottles more frequently, since you said if you give one earlier he doesn't finish it? It is difficult when there are medical issues like eczema at play, since that limits what it is advisable to do in terms of any kind of sleep training. I'm sorry, I hope someone else on the thread has more experience and advice for you

Oh here's an idea though -- Bananaz, if you're around, am I remembering correctly that it's you who use a Zipadee-Zip with E? Do you think that might help with Becca's LO's swaddle transition and the scratching? I have to tell you, despite having no personal experience with that thing I've recommended it to two other people in the past week, one on BnB and one in person, so it better be good

Hope everyone has/had a good night

 

[stephie_corin]

Rachel, how did your night go? Please don't feel despondent. Cully often takes an hour to fall asleep too. It's hard when they won't wind down. It's interesting your boy also has a strong rock to sleep association. I was reading NCSS last night and she really does have such good advice. I'm scared to do a sleep log though - I almost don't want to know!

SE, thank you for your post. As always, you are sensitive and articulate. I've sent you a PM but for this purpose I can say I've thought about the level of crying we are comfortable with and we will be doing very gentle sleep training.

Amy, I hope Chloe feels better soon! Sounds like we are both in for some gentle sleep training... I hope we aren't still soothing them to sleep when they are 15!

Polaris, thank you. It helps so much to have people who *get* how debilitating this situation can be. I feel like I left my brain back in the delivery room some days! Last night I did no rocking, just picked him up and jiggled lightly or swayed - it did take longer to soothe him but we got there in the end, so I think picking up is still going to have to play a part for a while. If I don't pick him up he really does get hysterical. But I'm so pleased I've already phased out rocking on night 1 - I feel optimistic!

Vikki, I'm glad the nap transition is going so well!

Gaia - huge big hugs. I really hope things get better for you - you've had such a rough time lately!! I think you should be ranting far more than you do. You're still my hero

Becca, welcome! I think Notnic has given you some great advice. Please keep posting and let us know how things go with you.

SE, I just saw your new post about Munchkin's bed. Do you have any other sleeping options besides the pack and play? Even a couch turned the other way against a wall?! It might more closely resemble his cot mattress, or could you leave the pack and play and bring his mattress and put it on the floor inside a cheap wooden play pen? I think you are right to plan for this now. I do hope Munchkin is fine in his pack and play by the time your holiday rolls around though! Good luck! Regarding separation anxiety, to be honest we are never separate so I'm not sure if he has it or not.

I have a question for the seasoned bed sharers. Since C has moved into our bed full time I have tried to give him space so he slept better but last night he actually slept in my arms for most of the night in my attempt to phase out rocking. For a few sleep cycles he actually just stirred and I jiggled him back to sleep without getting up. Am I making an unhealthy sleeping habit or is it normal to snuggle all night? I know this is probably the world's most stupid question.

Edit, I forgot to say for one feed last night we nursed lying down! I'm so pleased.

 

[stephie_corin]

And off topic, I just checked the size 5 huggies nappies and they are called 'juniors' and are for weight range 12kg-25kg. Is that the same as size 5 in the USA and UK? I think they might be made especially for the Middle East as there is a camel printed on the front of each nappy?! Lol. Anyway, since using them these last few nights we've had no leaks!

 

[Beccaboop]

Hi beccaboo! Welcome to the thread. F was an early weaner too. We started at 16 weeks on GPs advice because of the issues he had with trapped wind, colic etc. and I remember the struggle to fit everything in. Has the doctor looked into what is causing the eczema? Where are you with weaning? What sort of food is little one having? We found that the easiest way to get milk ounces in was to use it in the food. We used to give him porridge made using some of his milk ounces. From 6 mths he had a milky breakfast and one dairy meal - macaroni cheese / fish in a white sauce etc. plus yogurts.

Don't worry about giving up the dummy yet. We started phasing it out from 6/7 mths using it as a 'pacifier' - so he has it when he's upset rather than all day everyday use. Some babies do need to be weaned off because its more disruptive than helpful but oersonallu I don't see the rush at this age. I think the eczema has a lot to do with your Los problemss. What are the drs doing to help? xx

Hi thanks for replying.

Doctors think lo has a milk protein allergy as he has the eczema and poor weight gain and hes now on neocate milk and we're using diprobase and a steriod cream as well as oliatum in the bath.His eczema has improved a bit but not loads and he is gaining weight again (it stop completely at one point for 3 weeks) but its still slow so they arnt happy thats why we're weaning now.

We only started weaning this week and so far hes only having about 5-8 spoons of baby rice or blended sweet potato, carrot or apple at lunch time.So we havent got very far with it yet. There isnt much elsebhe can have other than fruit and veg atm cos of the milk allergy so many things have milk in that you wouldnt expect like baby porridge and rusks and he cant have anything like yogurt, custard either!

We try to only give him the dummy for sleeping rather than during the day but i find im getting up so many times just to put it back in so i want to get rid of it really! I dont even mind if he has it for naps as thats just a short time but not all night so i dont spend all night putting it back in so i get some sleep too!

 

[gaiagirl]

Stephie yay for nursing lying down!!!!

F has gone through phases of sleeping more in his own space and less, it just depends what he's going through at the time. When you're preparing to phase him into his own space then maybe worry about that but for now whatever works!

All I can say about last night is wow. Wow. And not in a good way. I wish I had given Advil earlier but waited until 4:30am stupidly.

The good (?????) news: tooth #7 is through and #8 is now noticeable.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[freddie]

Seaweed – He absolutely LOVES bath time! He kicks, laughs and splashes like crazy and by the time he’s finished I’m soaked! So yes rather stimulating for him I think… Tonight I’ve tried a bit more time between bath and bed and also the shorter wake time and seemed to go well I think


Stephie – Last night was an average/ bad night – lots of waking up between 4am and 6am YUCK. Yep his rock to sleep association is hard work too cos he weighs 27lbs now and my back ends up aching so much when he’s being difficult to get to sleep I still have a dislocated coccyx from giving birth (ouch) so it’s so not fun!

I know what you mean about the sleep logs – it’s scary to see it all written down ha ha but it does help to clarify what you want to improve and make a plan I think

 

[seaweed eater]

Lots of hugs Gaia you are almost there, this will be behind you soon!!!

Stephie, looks like US Pampers size 4 is 10-17 kg and size 5 is 12+, so I guess they are the same after all! Wow, good for Cully!

Oh and also for Stephie -- I think you'd be able to tell if C had separation anxiety even if you are with him all the time. He'd be getting upset if you went into another room.

Something crazy just happened...Munchkin woke all the way up from a catnap and went back to sleep. He woke up crying and seemed to be trying to SS, so I sat in his room (I sit just inside the door now) and said shh and he fell asleep a minute later!!! This has never happened before.

Oh, I think all of you who were at some point considering gradual withdrawal may have been turned off it by now but in case there is still anyone out there, I think one of the really nice things about it is that you get to see what your LO does to SS. I find it really sweet. I'm glad I'm not outside the room missing out on the chance to see him learn this skill.

 

[stephie_corin]

And off topic, I just checked the size 5 huggies nappies and they are called 'juniors' and are for weight range 12kg-25kg. Is that the same as size 5 in the USA and UK? I think they might be made especially for the Middle East as there is a camel printed on the front of each nappy?! Lol. Anyway, since using them these last few nights we've had no leaks!

I have no doubt now at all that the BnB curse is real. I made this off hand comment about how the size 5 diapers are helping with leaks at night... And hey presto, we had leak city last night!!!

Gaia, thanks for the advice. I think you're right - whatever works to survive this. Wow, F has so many teeth!! Poor little man! At least you are getting a good part of the teething done within a condensed time frame (I'm trying to look for at least one positive?!?). Hang in there!!

Rachel, you poor thing. Yes, rocking these big boys is such a back ache! 4-6 is our worst time too. I've been holding C since 5am and he just drifted of to sleep (545am). I don't have any suggestions as rocking C back to sleep is the only thing that works for us. Hopefully they outgrow it soon!!

SE, I think you are the poster child for how great gradual withdrawal is as a method for sleep training. What amazing progress you've had! And I agree, watching Munchkin learn to self settle must be really neat! What a clever boy! Go Munchkin!!! C does get upset if I go in another room so I tend to take him with me, so maybe he does have a touch of separation anxiety.

I hope everyone has great naps and even better nights!! Oh and happy Father's Day if you are celebrating it where you are!

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone. Clara is still teething badly and we had another quite unsettled night last night - however it could have been worse as she resettled reasonably quickly each time even though she woke up a LOT. Seaweed, the reason I am so sure it is teething at the moment is that she is obviously in pain during the day as well. Clara is such an easy-going baby that she actually never cries during the day, so if she is cranky in the daytime it really always means that she is in pain. Also she is chewing on everything but then crying in pain after biting down on things. Poor little thing, I do feel so sorry for them having to go through teething pain. This will be tooth number 5, but I actually think there might be a couple coming through at once.

Beccaboop, hello and welcome! I am clueless about feeding schedules and weaning so I don't really know what to suggest. I agree with Notnic that the eczema is probably contributing a lot to your LO's sleep difficulties and it definitely must make it harder for him to learn self-settling too, it must be so uncomfortable for him. It does sound difficult trying to work everything out.

Gaia, So sorry you had another awful night. Hopefully you will have a bit of a break from teething now, it has really been relentless for you guys!

Stephie - that is brilliant that you managed one feed lying down! It sounds like he will get the hang of it eventually with persistence. To answer your question about bedsharing, sometimes Clara wants more contact than other times. If she's not teething or ill, she likes her own space, but if she's feeling off then she likes a lot more physical contact. I just go with whatever she seems to want. When she was younger she liked to sleep literally on top of me and I didn't really love that to be honest because I got very little sleep. But she definitely is more comfortable sleeping in her own space now that she's a bit older so if she wants cuddles on a particular night I just go with that.

Seaweed - that's fantastic about self-settling midway through a nap! Wow!! It's so great reading about the progress that Munchkin has made with sleep training! Regarding the pack and play (is that the same as a travel cot?) I remember the first time I brought Thomas away when he was about five or six months and he absolutely wouldn't sleep in the travel cot at all, he was awake every hour (whereas he had been sleeping through until 4 or 5 a.m.), crying and scraping at the mesh sides of the cot with his fingernails. He just hated the unfamiliar cot and couldn't settle. However, he improved A LOT with age and the next time I went away with him at 9 months he slept in the travel cot with no difficulty (maybe a little unsettled for the first night but basically fine). I had been dreading it because I had kept meaning to put him in the travel cot for the occasional night at home to get him used to it but had never got round to it. So I guess I'm saying it might not be as bad as you are expecting, you never know your luck!

 

[justmeinlove]

Hi all, can I join in? I think I am about to just give up, our baby is 13 1/2 wks and hasn't slept for longer than 2 1/2 hrs since birth...except for two amazing nights at 11 wks, then she got a cold and that was that. Some nights are two hour bursts, some are one hour bursts, some are a mix. It's just hell and I spend most nights and many days thoroughly regretting having her I've stopped believing everyone who says it gets better, which makes me want to claw my eyes out as I Need sleep

 

[polaris]

Lots of hugs Stephie don't feel foolish, and don't feel like it's your fault! I don't have to tell you how much more you know about baby sleep by now than the average mom. Most babies just naturally learn more quickly how to sleep better and their mothers never encounter these kinds of situations. I know so well firsthand that the combination of persistence and alertness/distractibility makes things really tough.

Can you articulate what it is about letting him cry that feels so wrong to you? That may sound like a silly question. But there are so many different crying approaches and you may find that there are some that feel all right to you. Personally I know I had a breakthrough after someone I respect really challenged me about CIO. It made me realize that I'm willing to tolerate making Munchkin angry about not having what he's used to, but I do believe (unlike some who sleep train) that he may have a legitimate need for security and comfort, and I don't want to risk depriving him of something he needs. And since crying can communicate either of these, I'm generally not comfortable ignoring it, but I would be comfortable ignoring it if I were somehow 100% sure it was anger and not need. I feel that as his mother, not his friend, it's ok for me to make him angry. So that led me toward sleep training approaches where I feel that his needs are still being met and I am willing to assume that any crying is due to anger. If anything I am even more set in my unwillingness to CIO than I was before, but now I know my boundaries.

I'm sorry to ramble on about me. I just wanted to give you an example of how thinking through this can help. I also don't mean to exert any pressure to use crying techniques, or to question your opposition to them. Maybe as you think through it you will find that there are no such methods that could ever feel all right to you. That's fine, of course, but hopefully you will at least have more clarity about your options and feel more confident that you have tried everything available to you and now it's time to WIO. It just seems like you keep feeling both pressure to do more than you are doing now and unease with the options that are left to you. It's so hard to live with that tension AND with the sleep deprivation, and I think you have enough insight about yourself that you might at least be able to find a way to resolve the tension, if not address the sleep deprivation.

I've been thinking about this post a lot and also about Stephie's post and trying to work out in my own head how I feel, it's such a complicated area. I am definitely not absolutely against sleep training involving crying but I think for me it's about weighing up everything to see whether it fits for the specific situation. Every situation is so different and every baby is so different. Like with my older boy, I guess I did sleep training with him at four months in that I put him in cot in desperation keeping my hand on his tummy and he settled to sleep in less than ten minutes. He cried but he actually cried much less than he had been crying, he was crying for hours in my arms every single night at bedtime, I finally figured that all the rocking and shushing was totally counter-productive for him because it was totally over-stimulating and keeping him awake. So for him, sleep training was totally the right thing and it involved much less crying than had already been happening. I wouldn't even call it sleep training really to be honest, it was just meeting his need for peace and quiet to allow him to fall asleep.

Clara is totally different. She just wants you there and wants to sleep as close to you as possible. If she has this, she doesn't really cry much at all. So for her, sleep training would definitely involve more crying than the current situation. So it's a much tougher decision. For me, it's only really an option if the situation becomes unsustainable for whatever reason. For example, if I felt her sleep was so bad that it was impacting on her mood and overall development during the day. This was the case when I did some CC with her at 7 months. I think the biggest issue at that time was that she was refusing to nap at all really during the day and I just wasn't happy for that to continue because I felt her sleep needs were not being met. I think if she was my first baby and I could have just napped with her every naptime, then that might have worked without needing to do sleep training. But being a second child, that just wasn't possible in our situation, and I was also concerned about the impact on DS of me spending so long each day trying to settle her and getting stressed when she wouldn't sleep etc. Similarly, I think gradual withdrawal would be a much better fit for Clara than CC, but I just couldn't figure out a way to make it work because I couldn't just leave Thomas and sit in her room for however long it took for her to go to sleep.

So for me, it was about trying to weigh up the best way to meet her needs and Thomas's needs and also my needs. Having said all that, I'm not keen to do any more sleep training involving crying with her because I really do feel that if I can meet her needs to have me beside her when she's sleeping and that solves the problem, then to me that's a workable solution. But if it stops working and I feel she's not getting enough sleep or I'm not getting enough sleep to be able to be a good enough parent to them during the day because I'm too irritable or whatever, or for whatever other reason if the situation just isn't working for the family, then I would look at it again.

Sorry for waffling on! I just find it really interesting to think over these issues and they are not really the sort of things I can chat about to most people in real life without their eyes glazing over!

 

[stephie_corin]

Polaris, this is such a great post. You are 100% correct when you say each baby and situation is different. I lean quite far away from cry-based sleep training but my aversion to such sleep training applies to me personally; I'm genuinely happy for my fellow mums who find a solution to their sleep problems using cry-based techniques.

I find it really interesting when you mention that you now have to balance not only yours and Clara's needs but also Thomas'. I would desperately love another baby when the time is right but if baby is anything like Culver, I don't know how I would manage to raise them with the same sleep philosophy. Because I do have to lie down with Cully for every nap and at night time. You're right; you can't do this with a toddler running around.

I do think there is an element of passive sleep training with subsequent children, even if the parents are firmly against sleep training. Unless of course there is a big age gap between kids! But once you have your hands full with one or two others, baby won't get the same level or responsiveness as the first did.

I'm really glad you found something that worked for both your babies. As a parent, that's all we can hope for really... To get to know our children and respond in a sensitive and caring way to help them get the sleep they need. SE and her gradual withdrawal method springs immediately to mind; she's had great success because she knows Munchkin and his personality and decided on a plan of action that works for them. Similarly, I'm finding being close to Cully at sleep times is really having a positive effect on his sleep (he sounds like Clara in many respects!).

This is really very interesting - thank you so much for sharing your perspective!