Smoking while pregnant.. is it child abuse?

[PeanutBean]

Sometimes it is stupidity. Sometimes it's ignorance. Sometimes it's poverty. Sometimes it's fear or lack of willpower or maybe there are differences in how physiologically dependent people's bodies are. Sometimes people are just horrible.

 

[Laura2919]

I dont think one slap/smack is child abuse. Why dont we just label everything as child abuse
I gave up when I was pregnant and I would advise anyone to give up but I dont think it makes them child abusers.

 

[Lightworker]

Kimmer thats just awful! I don't call it child abuse for the sake of ostrasizing(sp) the mom or make her feel guilt(thats her conscience's job), I call it that because thats what it is and also, by calling it that, action can be taken to criminalize it. I also don't buy into the whole "its stressful to quit" argument. If you suffer stress, do some yoga, exercise, commune with nature etc, why is modern society so quick to reach for drugs to deal with issues?

 

[Laura2919]

Its never going to become illegal to smoke when pregnant. Its something they just cant do. What you gonna do send a pregnant women to prison for smoking? Give them a fine? Lol. You cant stop anyone smoking in their own home so how on earth would you be able to do that.

 

[Lightworker]

You are arguing that it is impossible due to enforcement issues, right? Criminal legistlation does not solely act as a penalizing measure, it also serves to deter people from committing crimes. I think some smokers will be more inclined to quit if it is made illegal. Also, if seen smoking in public, you can be reported by neighbours, blood checks etc. Its like saying "you can't criminalize sexual abuse because you cannot regulate what people do in their own homes", but current legislation begs to differ.

 

[PeanutBean]

I agree Laura. Much as I dislike it there is no way to have legal control over it nor would it be right to do so. I am forever amazed at how clearcut people find these sorts of issues. It shows such a lack of empathy for others' situations.

 

[ShanandBoc]

For the record, who said one slap / smack is child abuse??

I never said one slap is child abuse, i said a parent who who hits intending to inflict pain and causing injury

Has anyone said it should be illegal? Sorry if i missed it as i need some sleep desperately!! Oh ETA it has ben mentioned, but i agree that that cant be policed

It shouldnt have to be illegal was my point, pregnant women just shouldnt do it! And its simply opinion stating that i feel its abuse. Yes certain actions as a parent who fails to protect their child where possible and delibertely put them in harms way, is abuse....smoking whilst pregnant, with children in a car, blowing smoke all over a baby while pushing a pram with no regard for them, come under the abuse category imo. I dont see how it cannot! x

 

[ShanandBoc]

I agree Laura. Much as I dislike it there is no way to have legal control over it nor would it be right to do so. I am forever amazed at how clearcut people find these sorts of issues. It shows such a lack of empathy for others' situations.

Empathy for pregnant smokers? No i dont

I have empathy for the children born with illness, disabilities, people who loose a child to SIDS (smoking whilst pregnant increases that risk too) people who lose everything in a natural disaster, get killed by a drunk driver on the road.....thats the kind of thing i have empathy for.

Wheres the empathy for the unborn child, who recieves less oxygen and is exposed to poisons while trying to grow huh?

 

[PeanutBean]

There's empathy for the child everywhere. Have you read this thread?

There's no-one like woman for vilifying woman.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Sorry, ive seen a huge lack of empathy for the unborn child of a smoker. From the people that dont think its that harmful, for the ones who smoked while pregnant, the ones who downplay the seriousness of it... And its nothing to do with gender. If a father exposed his child to smoke i would think exactly the same, i have read the entire thread, have you?

 

[Marzipan_girl]

Smoking when pregnant is disgusting. It IS child abuse imo, it's as a few others have said, subecting an innocent child to harm. Just because the mother doesn't WANT or LIKE doing it, doesn't make it any less abuse. I reckon there are heaps of child abusers out there who actually DO feel guilty about what they're doing. But they're still child abusers nonetheless, unless they stop it.
I do have sympathy for them....because it's horrible to be under the control of anything like that which makes you knowingly harm your child. But I don't defend them. They should stop. Unless they stop, they're abusing their unborn babies. I had a horrible drug addiction to cocaine and fell pregnant in the midst of it. I don't like talking about it on here because I know i'll be judged, but I wont defend what I did because untill I stopped, I was knowingly harming my baby. I did manage to stop a few weeks after finding out, thanks to the fact that I owned up to it immediately to my doctor, as the thought of having social workers involved was less terrifying than killing my own baby. But everytime I took it until that point when I no longer took it again, whilst knowing I was pregnant, I was ABUSING my own baby.
Those who don't even TRY to stop? Ugh...

Obviously cocaine is way worse than cigarettes, i'm not saying they are equal...but there is still a heap of evidence to prove the damage that smoking does to the fetus. Just because it's legal doesn't make it right. Just because the mother feels bad about what she's doing, doesn't mean she isn't abusing her baby.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Marzipan Girl....

 

[PeanutBean]

Yes I posted on the first page. It's no wonder people downplay the effects when faced with such a torrent of hatred. I'd probably do the same myself if I were a smoker.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Why do u consistently defend the smoker? I dont get it. And i was being sarcastic about u reading the thread, clearly i have read it, i posted on the second page myself!!!

Torrent of hatred? Its concern for an unborn child. There is nothing but love in that

 

[ShanandBoc]

End of the day is cannot be clased as abuse since the unborn foetus has no rights and is not classed at living so therefore the argument is mute..

Maybe legally, but not morally

 

[Laura2919]

You are arguing that it is impossible due to enforcement issues, right? Criminal legistlation does not solely act as a penalizing measure, it also serves to deter people from committing crimes. I think some smokers will be more inclined to quit if it is made illegal. Also, if seen smoking in public, you can be reported by neighbours, blood checks etc. Its like saying "you can't criminalize sexual abuse because you cannot regulate what people do in their own homes", but current legislation begs to differ.

You cannot bring a law like that into force. It goes against a persons human rights and also you cant control what someone does in their own home. You wouldnt be able to stop people smoking in their homes and cars. The government just wouldnt entertain it.

 

[PeanutBean]

Concern for the child, vilification of mothers, I don't see the difference in many of these posts. I have lots of concern for foetuses exposed to any negative situations but that doesn't automatically mean the mother is a neglectful, selfish, abusive person. I am not defending smokers, I'm defending mothers.

Specific to smoking there is a whole world of compounding factors behind why people smoke in the first place and in the majority of cases, though of course not all, these come down to situations beyond their control such as economic status and domestic situation. Sometimes smoking is the lesser of two evils where it is the thing keeping a woman sane who might otherwise doing something very serious due to the stressors in her individual life. Sometimes it's simply ignorance of the effects. Whatever any of you on here might think no, not everyone really does fully understand the potential implications, even for themselves. I see all the time even on here that even in the face of hard and fast scientific evidence people will usually follow what their family and peers say and do. Particularly in pregnancy and parenting anecdote is king. It's simply human nature.

It's not a defence of smoking it's a defence of understanding that not everyone is the same, not everyone's understanding is the same and not everyone's situation is the same. Life is complicated and criminalising people for their lot achieves nothing.

You say it's not a legal issue but the rights of an unborn child is a legal issue. And you must accept that morality is complex. What's reprehensible to you is not necessarily so for others. There is no right or wrong in morality, it's a social construct. The thinkers of the world explore situations and fight for change. Over time some gain acceptance of the non-thinkers but societal acceptance is not the same as 'right'.

 

[special_kala]

You are arguing that it is impossible due to enforcement issues, right? Criminal legistlation does not solely act as a penalizing measure, it also serves to deter people from committing crimes. I think some smokers will be more inclined to quit if it is made illegal. Also, if seen smoking in public, you can be reported by neighbours, blood checks etc. Its like saying "you can't criminalize sexual abuse because you cannot regulate what people do in their own homes", but current legislation begs to differ.

You cannot bring a law like that into force. It goes against a persons human rights and also you cant control what someone does in their own home. You wouldnt be able to stop people smoking in their homes and cars. The government just wouldnt entertain it.

so is it not against someones human rights to say heroin is illegel?

or beating your children?

Of course you can control what people do in their own homes. Its still illegal to take drugs even at home, to sexually abuse your child so if they made smoking illegal it would be the same.

 

[Lightworker]

The state can and more importantly, DOES control what you do in your own home as illustrated by my sexual abuse example and special-kalas drug one.

 

[Lightworker]

Showing empathy for smoking moms and seeking child protection are not mutually exclusive. To assume that people are condemning or hating moms who smoke just because they are campaigning for "foetal rights" is abit flawed thinking IMO. We can display empathy by understanding that this is an addiction that requires support eg via therapy, yoga etc, to get over but at the same time the health of baby must be paramount.