Smoking while pregnant.. is it child abuse?

[Lightworker]

Oh this persistent mention of human rights. Not all human rights are absolute, they are weighed against the best interest of others and society as a whole, and can be clawed back if deemed fit. Oh well, I now feel like this debate is going round in circles.

 

[Lightworker]

Marzipan-girl I am impressed by your honesty and more than that, the courage it must take to admit that.

 

[Marzipan_girl]

Marzipan-girl I am impressed by your honesty and more than that, the courage it must take to admit that.

Thankyou. I was debating whether to bring it up or not because i'm on here alot more these days and have become more friendly with some of the other mums on here. Times like this I wish there was an "anon post" choice
But yeah...I am SO thankfull my baby is okay. I know I stopped in 1st tri but that's when the jigsaw is being put together you know? So the whole way through I had that in the back of my mind that he might not be okay...

 

[Laura2919]

Oh this persistent mention of human rights. Not all human rights are absolute, they are weighed against the best interest of others and society as a whole, and can be clawed back if deemed fit. Oh well, I now feel like this debate is going round in circles.

But smoking earns this government a nice sum of money in tax. They wouldnt get rid of that. They did all they could with the smoking when they introduced the smoking ban. I doubt very much they will go further.

Prisoners who have commited murder have human rights which arent 'clawed back' what makes you think this would even happen... I dont think it will ever happen but thats my opinion.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Smoking wouldnt earn the government anything, if people didnt smoke

 

[ShanandBoc]

Concern for the child, vilification of mothers, I don't see the difference in many of these posts. I have lots of concern for foetuses exposed to any negative situations but that doesn't automatically mean the mother is a neglectful, selfish, abusive person. I am not defending smokers, I'm defending mothers.

Specific to smoking there is a whole world of compounding factors behind why people smoke in the first place and in the majority of cases, though of course not all, these come down to situations beyond their control such as economic status and domestic situation. Sometimes smoking is the lesser of two evils where it is the thing keeping a woman sane who might otherwise doing something very serious due to the stressors in her individual life. Sometimes it's simply ignorance of the effects. Whatever any of you on here might think no, not everyone really does fully understand the potential implications, even for themselves. I see all the time even on here that even in the face of hard and fast scientific evidence people will usually follow what their family and peers say and do. Particularly in pregnancy and parenting anecdote is king. It's simply human nature.

It's not a defence of smoking it's a defence of understanding that not everyone is the same, not everyone's understanding is the same and not everyone's situation is the same. Life is complicated and criminalising people for their lot achieves nothing.

You say it's not a legal issue but the rights of an unborn child is a legal issue. And you must accept that morality is complex. What's reprehensible to you is not necessarily so for others. There is no right or wrong in morality, it's a social construct. The thinkers of the world explore situations and fight for change. Over time some gain acceptance of the non-thinkers but societal acceptance is not the same as 'right'.

I find your reasoning strange. There always seems to be an excuse as to why people can do the wrong thing, but that doesnt make it right.

The only reason there is any vilification towards mothers, is because of what they are doing to their unborn child, so thats what this whole thread is about, the concern for those children. You arent defending mothers, you are defending smokers

Whatever reason people smoke for in the first place is irrelevant tbh, when your pregnant, you have 9 mnths where a baby is growing inside of u and their rights come first when it comes to the selfish indulgence of drugs (alcohol being one of them) Like ive said before you dont HAVE to continue smoking, its a choice...whatever the reasons are for your smoking, its just a bunch of excuses.

When speaking of morals, thats what they are, the difference between whats right and whats wrong. Unfortunately these days, that line is seriously blurred. Who cares about the legal side of it, it should come down to compassion and love

 

[SKATERBUN]

^ I agree

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I don't think anyone is disputing the risks of smoking during pregnancy. Yes it carries risks and yes it isn't in the best interests of the baby growing inside the mother.

The thing people are disputing is going as far as calling it abuse. It isn't abuse IMO. Also if a mother is trying to quit by cutting down etc then who are any of you to Condem her? I gave up smoking the minute I found out I was pregnant but everyone isn't me. Some will struggle more than others. I ding agree with pregnant women smoking and not trying to quit because thats just ignorant and selfish. But the mothers that are trying to quit a d are cutting down because they can't do cold turkey are trying their best. In motherhood that's all we can do, try our best as mothers to being up our childre.

In addition smoking is no where near as damaging as heroine so to make a slight comparison about that was silly. Heroine is so much more deadly than smoking. As a student nurse I have seen babies in NICU shaking, screaming, sweating and sometimes dying. My OH went through that too. But I havnt seen or heard of a baby having withdrawal from nicotine or dying a slow and painful death. Smoking is bad for an unborn child but if a mother is trying to quit I applaud her not judge her.

 

[ShanandBoc]

But what about the ones that dont try?? And i still dont see why you wouldnt just quit anyway, cut down with the view to quit at least, not continue smoking 3 a day throughout. Quiting can be done, so why dont some do it, maybe they dont want to? Maybe they dont put their child first? Those are knowingly causing harm to a child, and thats abuse imo

No one said it was like heroin it was used as an example as someone said that addiction isnt abuse x

 

[Lightworker]

Aidan's Mommy - I will reiterate. My comparison to heroine was not in relation to the impact that it may have on the health of the foetus. It was to illustrate that an addiction is not a reason to refuse to label something as abuse. Some people on this thread have tried to sympathise with smoking on the sole basis that it is an addiction, and I was trying to illustrate that an addiction is not a justification for abuse. comparisons can be made on all sorts, even on issues that differ greatly in magnitude. It requires a broad-minded approach. Perhaps you didn't fully understand my posts, or perhaps my wording was not clear enough which is why you have decided to dismiss it as silly.

 

[Lightworker]

Further, I am not condemning anyone. I think people are quick to infer all these negative connotations from posts due to personal defensiveness. I will say it clear once again. I am saying thyat the actual ACT of smoking when pregnant would constitute abuse within the various legal definititions if only unborn children were classed as legal entities. I have no time, nor the inclination to be judging or condemning people personally. I am speaking out solely, and I mean SOLELY, for the rights of the children, unborn or otherwise.

 

[Lightworker]

But what about the ones that dont try?? And i still dont see why you wouldnt just quit anyway, cut down with the view to quit at least, not continue smoking 3 a day throughout. Quiting can be done, so why dont some do it, maybe they dont want to? Maybe they dont put their child first? Those are knowingly causing harm to a child, and thats abuse imo

No one said it was like heroin it was used as an example as someone said that addiction isnt abuse x

Thanks Shan I didn't know how to make it any clearer lol

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I said women that dont try are selfish. Cutionh down is a start and if it takes cutting down one cigarette a day then they are trying their best. Since when was that not good enough? I just don't think smoking during pregnancy is abuse. My mother smoked with me and she is the best mother I could ask for. Yes smoking isn't in the best interests of the baby but plenty of mothers di things that arnt in their child best interests when they are born. Heck if we were to call everything negatively effecting a child in some way no matter how small then the majority of children would have social services involved. X

 

[ShanandBoc]

I dont think cutting down to one a day is good enough hun, not for the fetus.

Out of curiosity what do u constitute as abuse?

For me, its knowingly and intentionally putting a child in harms way when u have the option not to x

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Physical or emotional harm. It could be argued that the stress a mother feels going cold turkey would warrant emotional abuse as the fuetus does pick up on a mothers emotional state and increased stress levels can actually threaten a pregnancy.

It could also be said that me giving Aidan chocolate or junk food (even if very little amounts)is abuse because I know that it is bad for him. It could also be said that time out/naughty step is emotinal abuse as you leaving them to cry and forcing them to stay in one place. Like I said many things could be considered as abuse but until you get into the ins age outs it is very hard to distinguish x

 

[ShanandBoc]

Isnt smoking causing them physical harm? I really dont think u can liken chocolate to the cocktail of poisons found in a cigarette.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

But then wouldn't the stress caused by going cold turkey be classed as emotinal abuse. The baby feels it and it can cause them harm? I'm not saying smoking isn't bad for a developing baby. I'm simply saying if a mother is trying to quit why should she be seen as someone who is abusing their child. Abuse is awful abs I don't think smoking during pregnancy warrants that label x

 

[ShanandBoc]

I guess u have to weigh up what is the lesser of two evils. Lots of things can cause stress in pregnancy, i lost my Dad, Grandma and Aunty all while i was pregnant.....i still think if i smoked that would have been worse.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. x

 

[marley2580]

I have to say that there are circumstances when smoking is the only was you have of relieving stress or coping. For example, when my sister was pregnant she was also homeless and sleeping on sofas etc, in addition to this she had money worries and her partner was being a bit of a dick. She continued to smoke during all this because she didn't have any other way of dealing with it all, in fact trying to quit with circumstances such as those would have been bad for both her and the baby, would you say she was being abusive? If so what sanction would you have placed on her?

 

[ShanandBoc]

Nicotine doesnt calm you down, and initially you may think it decreases stress levels but long term it actually increases them

According to research, smoking does not really give them that feeling of relaxation. It actually does the opposite. Researchers say that smoking actually increases your level of stress, not the other way around. According to studies, the stress level of smokers only decreases during the period between one cigarette and the next. The reason why smoking becomes a stressing experience is because of that sudden ‘want’ of the cigarette during the course of day. However, smokers see things the other way around. When you impose smokers to quit, they find it very difficult during the first few days because of stress. With such level of difficulty, they imply on smoking so as to lower their stress levels; but showed no significant decrease based on research.

On the other hand, people who successfully stopped smoking showed a significant decline of up to 20 percent in their stress level. The absence of nicotine in their body will then decrease the stress in a person. Although it can be very difficult at first, those who are able to pull through showed significant changes.