Smoking while pregnant.. is it child abuse?

[ShanandBoc]

I have to say that there are circumstances when smoking is the only was you have of relieving stress or coping. For example, when my sister was pregnant she was also homeless and sleeping on sofas etc, in addition to this she had money worries and her partner was being a bit of a dick. She continued to smoke during all this because she didn't have any other way of dealing with it all, in fact trying to quit with circumstances such as those would have been bad for both her and the baby, would you say she was being abusive? If so what sanction would you have placed on her?

Im really sorry for your sisters situation that must have been truly awful for her. Obviously her circumstance at the time was out of the ordinary But quitting would have been better for her stress levels after the initial hardship.

Whatever the circumstance , it still doesnt make it right, or doesnt change the fact that its harming ur unborn child

 

[Lightworker]

Agree with Shan about the ACTUAL effects of smoking on stress. Do smokers ever think "i am feeling anxious, I need to work through this. I am pregnant so I cannot smoke, can I try something alternative eg yoga, exercise, a walk in the park, or actually using my own inner strength to deal with this problem". Do they ever think of alternatives, or straight to the "tried and tested" cigarette? Genuine question.

 

[Lightworker]

Ok, this is my very rough, idea of what sanctions should be imposed. I think if found guilty of smoking while pregnant, I would impose a fine. I dont think a custodial sentence would be beneficial but a fine and obviously involvement with social services. I think for some just the idea of having a criminal record will be enough of a deterrent, and also having social services involved. This is just sketchy and I appreciate the stress on an already struggling children svs dept, but ideally...

 

[Lightworker]

Thats just an off the top idea by the way so I appreciate it may have huge holes in it.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Physical or emotional harm. It could be argued that the stress a mother feels going cold turkey would warrant emotional abuse as the fuetus does pick up on a mothers emotional state and increased stress levels can actually threaten a pregnancy.

It could also be said that me giving Aidan chocolate or junk food (even if very little amounts)is abuse because I know that it is bad for him. It could also be said that time out/naughty step is emotinal abuse as you leaving them to cry and forcing them to stay in one place. Like I said many things could be considered as abuse but until you get into the ins age outs it is very hard to distinguish x

My point with this post is. There is a definition of abuse. But under a definition in a black and white world lots of things can be seen as abuse. Some ideas may look great on paper but when you start applying them to real people on the real world it's a totally different story x

 

[Mellybelle]

In Australia it is now illegal to smoke in your car with children. I'm not sure of the amount of the fine. I think its about $200.

I consider smoking while pregnant child abuse. Mothers know that smoking while pregnant can cause their unborn baby terrible harm. To continue smoking or using other drugs while pregnant is completely selfish.

It is certainly NOT better to continue smoking whilst pregnant due to the stress that quitting may have on the unborn baby. I understand how hard it is to quit. I've done it myself. But its certainly not impossible. If a mother can cut down to two or three a day, then she can quit completely.

 

[SKATERBUN]

^ I agree Mellybelle and the best cure for stress is knowing you are carrying a little miracle around inside of you that you want to protect and nuture with all your might

 

[marley2580]

I really can't understand why people are so quick to say that circumstance is no excuse. Have you ever been in that situation? Do you know what it's like?

Of course smoking increases stress etc. but if you are under a massive amount of stress already, do you really think that you are likely to succeed at quitting one of the most addictive substances around? Don't you think that having that emotional crutch can help a very stressed person to cope?

I also find it bizarre that people would criminalise women for taking part in a LEGAL activity. It'd be different is tobacco was illegal, but it's not, and it never will be.

 

[Lightworker]

C'mon, thats abit short-sighted that comment about "criminalizing someone for taking part in a legal activity". I personally am debating whether that activity should be legal in the first place! She is not just damaging her health, she is damaging the health of an unborn child, and at this point I feel compelled to ask, just what kind of person advocates a law that in essence facilitates the harming of an unborn child?

 

[Lightworker]

In January the European Court of Human Rights ruled that a prisoner had suffered a breach of his article 3 right (the right to freedom from degrading and inhumane treatment) purely because he had been subjected to second hand somke leading to a smoking-related illness. Why should a baby's right to good health be any less important just because it is still in-utero? This case is indicative of how seriously the courts are taking this smoking issue,and to those that say "x will never happen",watch that space.

 

[annawrigley]

Concern for the child, vilification of mothers, I don't see the difference in many of these posts. I have lots of concern for foetuses exposed to any negative situations but that doesn't automatically mean the mother is a neglectful, selfish, abusive person. I am not defending smokers, I'm defending mothers.

Specific to smoking there is a whole world of compounding factors behind why people smoke in the first place and in the majority of cases, though of course not all, these come down to situations beyond their control such as economic status and domestic situation. Sometimes smoking is the lesser of two evils where it is the thing keeping a woman sane who might otherwise doing something very serious due to the stressors in her individual life. Sometimes it's simply ignorance of the effects. Whatever any of you on here might think no, not everyone really does fully understand the potential implications, even for themselves. I see all the time even on here that even in the face of hard and fast scientific evidence people will usually follow what their family and peers say and do. Particularly in pregnancy and parenting anecdote is king. It's simply human nature.

It's not a defence of smoking it's a defence of understanding that not everyone is the same, not everyone's understanding is the same and not everyone's situation is the same. Life is complicated and criminalising people for their lot achieves nothing.

You say it's not a legal issue but the rights of an unborn child is a legal issue. And you must accept that morality is complex. What's reprehensible to you is not necessarily so for others. There is no right or wrong in morality, it's a social construct. The thinkers of the world explore situations and fight for change. Over time some gain acceptance of the non-thinkers but societal acceptance is not the same as 'right'.

I completely agree (with all of your posts on here!) I hate to play the woe is me card but in my situation I was 17, had been in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship for 14 months since 2 weeks after my 16th birthday, I lived with him and had practically been brainwashed into getting pregnant. He dumped me when I was 5 months pregnant and got a new girlfriend 4 hours later, he kicked me out of his house so from living with my family/him for 17 years I was living on my own and pregnant. I didnt know what to do with myself, I self-harmed and seriously considered suicide plenty of times, to the point of going to the train station waiting, wondering if I'd pluck up the courage to throw myself in front of a train. May sound ridiculous but I was so emotionally dependant on him then he just dropped me like a piece of rubbish the only thing I could do to keep myself together was smoke. If I hadnt been pregnant I would have got horribly drunk but I wasnt prepared to do that and that was the only way I'd ever known how to deal with emotional distress so smoking was the only thing that remotely calmed me down. I was only smoking about 5 a day at this point, I cut down when I found out I was pregnant. A month or so later I quit for 3 months which I was really proud of and don't think I should be knocked for it just because I smoked 2-5 a day in the other parts of my pregnancy. I'm eternally thankful that Noah was healthy and not at all a low birth weight which I'm sure one of my tutors said every baby whose mother smoked in pregnancy is an abnormally low birth weight (Yes how ironic, a child abuser studying child development!) I'm not by any means saying "I smoked and he's healthy so go do it" I'm not that naive, my point was how thankful I am and I'd never forgive myself if something had been wrong with him. But threads like this labelling people like me who are trying to do the best for their children in far from perfect circumstances as child abusers really do not help anything.

I think people that don't even bother to try to quit or cut down, know the effects but don't care, are a different kettle of fish. I still wouldn't say it was abuse but its very different from someone doing their best.

 

[annawrigley]

But what about the ones that dont try?? And i still dont see why you wouldnt just quit anyway, cut down with the view to quit at least, not continue smoking 3 a day throughout. Quiting can be done, so why dont some do it, maybe they dont want to? Maybe they dont put their child first? Those are knowingly causing harm to a child, and thats abuse imo

No one said it was like heroin it was used as an example as someone said that addiction isnt abuse x

Wow you must be getting dizzy so high up there on your horse. Maybe you have not been in their shoes so you should take a step back and have some empathy before so harshly judging those less fortunate than you or those who god forbid don't make the same perfect choices you do.

 

[marley2580]

C'mon, thats abit short-sighted that comment about "criminalizing someone for taking part in a legal activity". I personally am debating whether that activity should be legal in the first place! She is not just damaging her health, she is damaging the health of an unborn child, and at this point I feel compelled to ask, just what kind of person advocates a law that in essence facilitates the harming of an unborn child?

I believe that when I am pregnant I do not give up my rights and status as a human being and that my choices are MY choices. The thought of others having a say about what I can and can't do simply because I am pregnant fills me with disgust. I may not agree with another's choices (ie smoking) but I do defend the fact that it is her choice.

I think that I will now back away from saying more as to do so would stray to close to the A debate (which is not allowed).

 

[ShanandBoc]

But what about the ones that dont try?? And i still dont see why you wouldnt just quit anyway, cut down with the view to quit at least, not continue smoking 3 a day throughout. Quiting can be done, so why dont some do it, maybe they dont want to? Maybe they dont put their child first? Those are knowingly causing harm to a child, and thats abuse imo

No one said it was like heroin it was used as an example as someone said that addiction isnt abuse x

Wow you must be getting dizzy so high up there on your horse. Maybe you have not been in their shoes so you should take a step back and have some empathy before so harshly judging those less fortunate than you or those who god forbid don't make the same perfect choices you do.

Really? Caring about the health of unborn children is being on a high horse?? I was stating my opinion which i have every right to do so, and i have empathy for those less fortunate than myself dont u worry about that. I dont have empathy, however, for someone who poisons their child with cigarette smoke without even trying to quit, but i know that it can be done!

Yes its about choice, and i never said i was perfect. The fact that its a choice is what makes me consider it as abuse.

You said you quit, you tried to quit despite your situation, and eventually succeeded, so its not people like you that i have the opinion that its abuse, its those that continue to smoke throughout, esp those who continue on as before they were pregnant, the ones that dont try as i said in my post above that u quoted.

I am an ex smoker myself, who gave up at time when i was going through alot ( i wasnt pregnant) so i know how damn hard it can be.....

Well done for what u did, despite all that u were going through, thats amazing x

 

[Lightworker]

In summation (as I feel I am getting repetitive) I believe pregnant smoking is abuse, not because I just want to stick a negative label on the act but because once it has that label, the next step would be to criminalize it thereby achieving my main aim, safeguarding the health of unborn baby. I wholly agree that it is unhelpful to judge moms and I do believe they should be offered as much help to quit via alternative methods, however, we cannot shy away from the major issue here, ie the harm to the child.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Anna. It just shows that nothing in this world is black and White. You tried to cut down and got there in the end.

That's why I think child abuse is too harsh a word. The children I have worked with that have been abused have one thing that separates them from pregnant women smoking. The abuser WANTED to cause them physical or emotional harm. They went out of their way to hurt them. X

 

[Lightworker]

Those opposing the label have argued along the lines of "It cant be abuse because I, or my mom or sis etc did it" or "it is an addiction", but to me these are not reasons to refuse to acknowledge it as abuse. The rights of the mother have been argued, but like I said, her rights have never been absolute, and IMO these should be suspended for the duration of the pregnancy/nursing period. The law should recognize that the child should always come first. I have personally enjoyed this debate x

 

[marley2580]

Those opposing the label have argued along the lines of "It cant be abuse because I, or my mom or sis etc did it" or "it is an addiction", but to me these are not reasons to refuse to acknowledge it as abuse. The rights of the mother have been argued, but like I said, her rights have never been absolute, and IMO these should be suspended for the duration of the pregnancy/nursing period. The law should recognize that the child should always come first. I have personally enjoyed this debate x

Wait, you believe that you should give up your rights as a human being simply because you are pregnant?!? That's a very extreme view. Where would you stop? What if doctors decided that pregnant women should spend the last month of their pregnancy and birth in a 'hospital' as that is the safest option for the child? Should women just accept that?

 

[Laura2919]

Anna. Everyones situation is different and that shows it.

 

[PeanutBean]

I on the other hand know no-one who has smoked in pregnancy and have never smoked myself, nor have I used addiction as a sole reason to argue for it's not being child abuse. I firmly believe that as Marley has said there is no reason for a mother to give up her own rights for a foetus that has not cannot exist independently. The question of where would we stop is a hugely important one. To be frank I think the viewpoint that a foetus should be put before all else is an extreme one and one that could only exist in the luxurious world we currently live in.