Some women shouldn't be mothers....

[Hayley90]

Yes, her husband knows her convictions, which are spent.

So, youve never known a woman be manipulated by a man before? Never known someone who blamed herself, or felt stupid if she disagreed? Never known somebody completely blinded by loving someone, and terrified of them at the same time?

Because, i think, that is what she was. Just like my mum, except my dad isnt a murderer.

Its NOT difficult to understand her situation at all, in fact the more you read about it, the more difficult i find it to understand where the public hatred for her came from in the first place.

 

[Hayley90]

if you were OUT OF TOWN when your partner did something, how could you possibly know more

 

[mum22ttc#3]

if you were OUT OF TOWN when your partner did something, how could you possibly know more

I suppose I just find it hard to understand a person that wouldn't ask questions, a person that would just lie without asking for an explanation.
I'm not saying that she knew the whole story but I also cant believe that she didn't have an inkling in the back of her mind, not one question there as to why he wanted her to lie

And if she did have questions at the back of her mind, if she did have even the slightest doubt that it could of been him, like someone said earlier, in my eyes she also had blood on her hands.

 

[Harveysmum369]

Yes, her husband knows her convictions, which are spent.

So, youve never known a woman be manipulated by a man before? Never known someone who blamed herself, or felt stupid if she disagreed? Never known somebody completely blinded by loving someone, and terrified of them at the same time?

Because, i think, that is what she was. Just like my mum, except my dad isnt a murderer.

Its NOT difficult to understand her situation at all, in fact the more you read about it, the more difficult i find it to understand where the public hatred for her came from in the first place.

I've been in a relationship like that,however even at my lowest,if my boyfriend had said he needed me to lie...about something so serious..not a chance...

 

[buttonnose82]

Like Hayley said, it is very easy too be manipulated by a man you love, more so if your not a strong person yourself

my auntie married someone and years later she found out he had been in prison for murder, he started beating the crap out of her but she stayed, she stayed because she loved him, it took her maybe years of beatings too finally get the strength too leave him, you can do strange things when your in love

 

[mum22ttc#3]

Yes, her husband knows her convictions, which are spent.

So, youve never known a woman be manipulated by a man before? Never known someone who blamed herself, or felt stupid if she disagreed? Never known somebody completely blinded by loving someone, and terrified of them at the same time?

Because, i think, that is what she was. Just like my mum, except my dad isnt a murderer.

Its NOT difficult to understand her situation at all, in fact the more you read about it, the more difficult i find it to understand where the public hatred for her came from in the first place.

I've been in a relationship like that,however even at my lowest,if my boyfriend had said he needed me to lie...about something so serious..not a chance...

I honestly haven't and don't know anyone that has (or not that I know off) but I just cant see myself ever lying for someone when such a serious crime had been committed. Like I said earlier, perhaps I have too much trust in the legal system but I would truly believe that if my partner was innocent than it would soon be proven that he was, without me having to lie.

 

[Snuffy]

It would be nice to think so but unfortunately many lives have been ruined by wrongful convictions, or even by the press and their kangaroo courts before any charges have even been brought never mind proven (I am thinking of Joanna Yeates' landlord here for instance).

I do get the point about why lie if you believe they are innocent but I an also imagine that in a moment of shock and panic a person may not necessarily be thinking logically.

 

[Harveysmum369]

Yeah I get that in a moment of shock that may happen,but did she admit she had lied or get found out?Xx

 

[babyblog]

He is a manipulative man - there could have been any number of threats or stealthy methods used to persuade her to lie. As I said she was incredibly stupid and she was punished for it but her crime does not warrant her child being taken away from her years later. Him yes. Not her.

I completely agree with all of your posts, funny how women are always deemed to be the most evil criminals in our country eh!

Who knows why she did it, perhaps she blindly believed him, perhaps she was controlled by him and in an abusive relationship. Why should she not be entitled to have a child? There isn't proof that she is a direct threat to children

 

[kelzyboo]

I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for her, she chose to lie and it wasn't a small lie, it was a lie that caused great disruption to the case of two innocent girls. No she's not a murderer but she lied for one and i believe she knew he was 'involved' in some way, if he wasn't she wouldn't have needed to lie would she!

I guess my opinion doesn't conform to the norm here as i also have no sympathy for anyone who 'chooses' to stay in an abusive relationship either, choose is the operative word there. No matter how much i loved someone i wouldn't stay and be beaten and i cannot empathise at all with anyone who would, i understand that people manipulate others and frighten them but you cannot be manipulated unless you allow yourself to be in my opinion.

The fact that she wasn't strong enough to stand up to him and allowed him to control her is no reason to sympathise with her, especially the amount of damage it caused.

But thats just me, no one has to agree with me, its how i feel.

 

[Harveysmum369]

I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for her, she chose to lie and it wasn't a small lie, it was a lie that caused great disruption to the case of two innocent girls. No she's not a murderer but she lied for one and i believe she knew he was 'involved' in some way, if he wasn't she wouldn't have needed to lie would she!

I guess my opinion doesn't conform to the norm here as i also have no sympathy for anyone who 'chooses' to stay in an abusive relationship either, choose is the operative word there. No matter how much i loved someone i wouldn't stay and be beaten and i cannot empathise at all with anyone who would, i understand that people manipulate others and frighten them but you cannot be manipulated unless you allow yourself to be in my opinion.
The fact that she wasn't strong enough to stand up to him and allowed him to control her is no reason to sympathise with her, especially the amount of damage it caused.

But thats just me, no one has to agree with me, its how i feel.

I'm guessing you have never been in an abusive relationship?before I was,I couldn't understand how anyone could stay,but had sympathy,but they make you so damn dependant on them,like the world can't go on without them,and you really do believe it..no matter how many times someone tells you otherwise..until 1 day,something clicks..to say you have no sympathy for someone in that postion without ever having been there is a little harsh...

 

[aliss]

Eerily similar to the Canadian case of Karla Holmolka - google not for the squeamish -n (who did actually participate in the rape/murders herself). Many of the nurses here refused to assist her during her labour and she has since been run out of the country to South America.

 

[babyblog]

I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for her, she chose to lie and it wasn't a small lie, it was a lie that caused great disruption to the case of two innocent girls. No she's not a murderer but she lied for one and i believe she knew he was 'involved' in some way, if he wasn't she wouldn't have needed to lie would she!

I guess my opinion doesn't conform to the norm here as i also have no sympathy for anyone who 'chooses' to stay in an abusive relationship either, choose is the operative word there. No matter how much i loved someone i wouldn't stay and be beaten and i cannot empathise at all with anyone who would, i understand that people manipulate others and frighten them but you cannot be manipulated unless you allow yourself to be in my opinion.

The fact that she wasn't strong enough to stand up to him and allowed him to control her is no reason to sympathise with her, especially the amount of damage it caused.

But thats just me, no one has to agree with me, its how i feel.

I think you could do with being a little more understanding and thoughtful then. You may have added that no-one has to agree with you but there may be victims of domestic abuse reading this thread and i wonder how what you have said would make them feel.

The type of men that are domestic abusers are very good at doing what they do. They control, they bully, they manipulate.They may start to take away their partners confidence bit by bit until she has none left and couldn't even envisage leaving as where would she go? She has no friends or family left that she is allowed to see, she may have no money to leave as he may have all the financial control and he may threaten the children's lives if she tries to go.

Two women die each week in the UK due to domestic violence and the most dangerous point, when these women are most at risk, is the time they try to leave. The women in this position certainly feel they have no choice and to simply say " just leave" is actualyl very naive and very harmful.

 

[kelzyboo]

How do you know i haven't? Because i have no sympathy for the people who do not help themselves and get out, choose to stay and endure abuse? Perhaps it means i got out before it got worse, because i'll never allow myself to be controlled. Maybe i've seen the damage that does.

Thats just my opinion though, i understand why people sympathise, its a hard situation but its not one without choice, which is why i don't. xx

 

[aliss]

RE: The DV comment

All women believe they are too strong for that crap. All of them. And it happens to strong women too. Hell, I had coworkers being assaulted by their boyfriends - gun-toting, karate chopping stern bitchy police officers. Tolerating shit from criminals day in & day out, yet going home to an abuser. It happens to all women. No woman is immune. Yes, obviously some know to get out of it the second they see the signs, but most of them don't realize it until it's too late.

I've never been abused by a boyfriend but I've been a police dispatcher for many years and have listened to 100's, if not 1000's, of domestic assaults and run records on both parties... sometimes you'd be surprised who the victim is - politicians, police officers, fire(wo)men, teachers, social workers, hell, even domestic violence counselors!!!

 

[Harveysmum369]

How do you know i haven't? Because i have no sympathy for the people who do not help themselves and get out, choose to stay and endure abuse? Perhaps it means i got out before it got worse, because i'll never allow myself to be controlled. Maybe i've seen the damage that does.

Thats just my opinion though, i understand why people sympathise, its a hard situation but its not one without choice, which is why i don't. xx

I said I was guessing you hadn't from what you said...it's not a choice at all!No woman decides its the best thing for her to stay and get beaten and abused on a daily basis!
If you have then you were lucky that you had the strength to get out...like someone else said they eat away at your confidence so you believe no one else will ever look at you...

Your posts are coming across as though you think women who stay in abusive relationships are weak...which they aren't...they just don't have the confidence to get out.

 

[kelzyboo]

I hope i haven't made anyone feel bad, i do. I didn't say it wasn't hard and i'd never say just leave to anyone, its not the easiest thing to do i know that. The reason i don't sympathise is that theres a certain amount of choice involved in domestic abuse, you can choose to stay or not and if the choice is made to stay then where shall i sympathise. The children who suffer because of it, thats where my sympathies lie.

I know my view is 'different' but we all have our views and our reasons for them. Hopefully no one has taken it personally, the thread is about Maxine Carr not domestic abuse anyway, it just happens to be similar but her situation is far different in that she covered for a murderer, this is mostly what i was refering to, that she chose to. x

 

[babyblog]

How do you know i haven't? Because i have no sympathy for the people who do not help themselves and get out, choose to stay and endure abuse? Perhaps it means i got out before it got worse, because i'll never allow myself to be controlled. Maybe i've seen the damage that does.

Thats just my opinion though, i understand why people sympathise, its a hard situation but its not one without choice, which is why i don't. xx

I would have thought that had you experienced the kind of shocking abuse that many women and children suffer you would be able to offer a little more sympathy to victims-rather than blame the victims themselves and heap yet more pain onto them

P.S i posted this the same time as you last post above, so only just seen it

 

[kelzyboo]

No i don't think they're weak at all, obviously thats how it sounded but its not how i meant it. I also didn't say they chose to stay as that was the best thing to do, just that its a choice not to leave, and it is.

Obviously, my confidence hasn't ever been so low that i couldn't make that choice and i do sympathise with anyone who's confidence is that low, i know its harder to see the signs in your own relationship and i would never judge anyones individual circumstances as i do not know them. Perhaps i made the comment a little too loosley as if that applied to everyone in an abusive relationship and it wasn't how i meant it.

So i'll just apologise to anyone offended, obviously i didn't get my point across properly so people knew what i meant x

 

[RedRose]

So, youve never known a woman be manipulated by a man before? Never known someone who blamed herself, or felt stupid if she disagreed? Never known somebody completely blinded by loving someone, and terrified of them at the same time?

Because, i think, that is what she was. Just like my mum, except my dad isnt a murderer.

Its NOT difficult to understand her situation at all, in fact the more you read about it, the more difficult i find it to understand where the public hatred for her came from in the first place.

I've known of women being manipulated by men and vice versa.

But you have to consider how high the stakes were in this instance. It involved hindering the case into the disappearance of two children she knew, the same two children who were at her house with her boyfriend on the day they vanished (which he said to the press as the time), in the same house which he then bleached from top to bottom, and then asked her to lie about it.

I see where you're coming from hun, but for me, I cannot understand/emphathise/sympathise for anyone who would knowingly lie and hinder a case so serious, regardless of if they were manipulated or abused. Some things are bigger than your own life with your partner, and two kids going missing in those circumstances is much bigger than that.

And to be honest, I would't lie for my husband. I've loved him for ten years, know him inside out and love him completely, but if he asked me to lie about his whereabouts after two little girls visited our house and then disappeared, then I'd go to the police.

I hope I don't sound argumentative btw, just having a discussion