Spanking

[Dragonfly]

(puzzled) no i am not comparing anything in here to this book just was showing it thats all and showing you it was a real book.

I can see your having a debate there and so are a few others which I am deliberately not involved in because I will have to use my head to be honest.

really was just showing a book. Nothing thrown at anyone here.

 

[sabby52]

I am sorry I thought they where your words My son is 12 and I can honestly say that he has never done anything behind my back but I also have to admit I am a pretty laid back parent, that could be why

Are you responding to my post: Because i was
responding to the book about whipping your babies into shape. I would never consider or compare tapping or even minimal spanking to child abuse that would be a unnecessarily melodramatic.

As for doing things behind your back. Most kids do things behind their parents back at some stage and if I'm honest I think it's part of growing up and finding yourself. Unless you are the most permissive parent on the planet that is. My point was that spanking a kid to not do something the kid sees no reason in not doing will result in either a kid with a warped personality or a kid who learns to do things behind their parent's back.

Tapping is not beating.

I've missed most of the debate but I suppose things like this is what made me militant about not hitting children. We have FOR GENERATIONS produced stable happy adults who have all sorts of professions but I suppose mainly civil servants (although writers, artists, engineers, doctors etc. are all included) and none of my mum's family have ever hit their children. There is no need for it. In my opinion it's just lazy parenting which gets immediate results but long term does nothing except make kids either scared tot he point of having personality or mental issues or just learn to do things behind their parents backs. It makes sense if your child is in grave danger and you CANNOT reason with him or her but generally, either a child is too young to reason with in which case hitting is cruel and if they're old enough to reason with then reason with them.

Sorry to get all riled but I'm still not sure if that book really exists or if it's just a website to see how people like me will believe anything.

If it's real the authors should be held responsible. If you can be held responsible for inciting violence surely you can be held responsible for inciting child abuse!?

I dont usually reply to debate threads, tbh I dont see the sense in debating when it comes to kids, all children are different, all parents, parent different and tbh I dont ever think 2 mothers will ever agree 100% on everything, but To say tapping a child will/can cause personality or mental issues is just unbelievable I have a 12 year old and a 3 year old and both my boys get tapped when they need it and neither of them have any mental or personality issues, actually my 12 year old is in the top of his year and in his teachers words " a born leader, who not only takes control of a situation rationally but also has a heart of gold and makes sure everyone is involved in no matter what is happening" Does that sound like he has any sort of problems ?? My son never does ANYTHING behinde my back because although he is tapped when needed we have a close relationship and we totally respect each other. I come from a background of parents that tapped when needed and each and every single member of my family is stable, actually I have 6 brothers and 2 sisters all of who got tapped when needed and if I do say so myself we are a pretty respectful and respected family.

Like I said I dont normally get involved but I felt the need to say something this time

 

[PeanutBean]

Oo redpoppy guilty of not reading all the thread!

And I have an update on babyproofing - no more socket covers! There's a thread in general chat, had a play with them and low and behold, not safe! So just stairgates for us. Fortunately there's only about two sockets the boy could possibly access anyway.

 

[sabby52]

Oo redpoppy guilty of not reading all the thread!

And I have an update on babyproofing - no more socket covers! There's a thread in general chat, had a play with them and low and behold, not safe! So just stairgates for us. Fortunately there's only about two sockets the boy could possibly access anyway.

I am another "tapping" mother that doesnt feel the need to go overboard on the baby proofing the only baby proofing I done was a safety gate on the kitchen, even with that he still got burnt I believe a child that is allow to roam learns quicker about the dangers in the home. With my first I didn't baby proof at all and he never had an accident, of course he had bumps and bruises but never a real accident. Tbh I think everything is so overboard now, but that is just my own opinion

 

[PeanutBean]

It would seem then that on this thread there are two schools of thought: one to protect at all costs, nothing physical but perhaps less freedom; the other to allow more freedom the cost of which is a slightly firmer hand to reinforce the lessons. I don't see any problem with either way of doing it so long as kids are neither beaten nor kept so protected they cannot learn or enjoy the world. I imagine a lot depends on the upbringing of the parents and the nature of the children themselves.

 

[midori1999]

I have never baby proofed, except stairgates, OR smacked/tapped. I also have a 'disabled' son (Downs Syndrome) and have never felt the need to tap or smack him either.

Lets be honest about this, unless a 'tap' hurts the child or is loud enough to make a noise (and therefore probably hurts) there is no point in doing it. I do not smack my children in any way, but would not class smacking with a hand child abuse, unless it left a mark. That said, I will be upfront about it and say I find tapping/smacking a 7 month old child in any way, abhorrent. There is absolutely no way that a 7 month old can understand reasoning, so in order for a 'tap' and explaination to stop the child repeating a behaviour, the 'tap' must be pretty hard. I mean, really? A 7 month old? Why not just have a word with yourself and make sure the child is not in a situation where it can be in danger again?

 

[Boothh]

Oo redpoppy guilty of not reading all the thread!

And I have an update on babyproofing - no more socket covers! There's a thread in general chat, had a play with them and low and behold, not safe! So just stairgates for us. Fortunately there's only about two sockets the boy could possibly access anyway.

I am another "tapping" mother that doesnt feel the need to go overboard on the baby proofing the only baby proofing I done was a safety gate on the kitchen, even with that he still got burnt I believe a child that is allow to roam learns quicker about the dangers in the home. With my first I didn't baby proof at all and he never had an accident, of course he had bumps and bruises but never a real accident. Tbh I think everything is so overboard now, but that is just my own opinion

the only socket covers we have are ones that were here from the previous occupents and they been stuck in and wont come out there are only 2 sockets jesse can get to which are at the top of the stairs and he is obviously never left at the top of the stairs without supervision, we have no baby gates he is never left unsupervised, to get the stairs from the living room he has to go through the living room door which has a slide lock were he can reach and he cant reach any handles upstairs so theres noway he can get to them without me, our kitchen is on to our living room through an arch so no gate on that either, i dont use the oven unless OH is entertaining him in the living room, i dont feel the need to wrap my house in cotton wool maybe i am laid back in my style of parenting, but i have a very happy, well behaved, friendly, clever, sociable little boy who is quite adanced in lots of areas, so i cant be doing that bad, even if i dont do a good job of babyproofing and tap his hand once in a blue moon

 

[BlackBerry25]

I clap my hands and it makes a noise and it does not hurt.

 

[Eve]

Oh wow... the comments below from that book are so sad... disgusting! I seriously feel ill now...

As for spanking..? I don't see much point to it really, I don't think it will solve any problems or be beneficial to the child, but I understand completely about the so called "tapping" in question. There is a difference and I believe the Moms on here who have tapped their child/children were doing it out of love, to help them learn. There is a big difference between a tap on the hand or bum, and a spank. Also in Canada it's legal to spank your children until the age of 12 with an open hand on the bum, as long as it's not embarassing them etc... not that I think it's a good idea, but it happens.

So sorry to the ladies on here who have suffered through abuse ...

 

[Blah11]

I havent baby proofed either, not even stairgates. She's still in a cot though, will probably put one on her bedroom door when shes in a bed The only accident we've has is a burn on my GHDs but that would have happened anyway!

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Oo redpoppy guilty of not reading all the thread!

And I have an update on babyproofing - no more socket covers! There's a thread in general chat, had a play with them and low and behold, not safe! So just stairgates for us. Fortunately there's only about two sockets the boy could possibly access anyway.

I am another "tapping" mother that doesnt feel the need to go overboard on the baby proofing the only baby proofing I done was a safety gate on the kitchen, even with that he still got burnt I believe a child that is allow to roam learns quicker about the dangers in the home. With my first I didn't baby proof at all and he never had an accident, of course he had bumps and bruises but never a real accident. Tbh I think everything is so overboard now, but that is just my own opinion

the only socket covers we have are ones that were here from the previous occupents and they been stuck in and wont come out there are only 2 sockets jesse can get to which are at the top of the stairs and he is obviously never left at the top of the stairs without supervision, we have no baby gates he is never left unsupervised, to get the stairs from the living room he has to go through the living room door which has a slide lock were he can reach and he cant reach any handles upstairs so theres noway he can get to them without me, our kitchen is on to our living room through an arch so no gate on that either, i dont use the oven unless OH is entertaining him in the living room, i dont feel the need to wrap my house in cotton wool maybe i am laid back in my style of parenting, but i have a very happy, well behaved, friendly, clever, sociable little boy who is quite adanced in lots of areas, so i cant be doing that bad, even if i dont do a good job of babyproofing and tap his hand once in a blue moon

Same as. I only had one stair gate on top of stairs x

 

[trumpetbum]

It would seem then that on this thread there are two schools of thought: one to protect at all costs, nothing physical but perhaps less freedom; the other to allow more freedom the cost of which is a slightly firmer hand to reinforce the lessons. I don't see any problem with either way of doing it so long as kids are neither beaten nor kept so protected they cannot learn or enjoy the world. I imagine a lot depends on the upbringing of the parents and the nature of the children themselves.

I don't think I really fit into either school of thought tbh. I think freedom is essential for children and don't tend to wrap mine up in cotton wool, I discipline with a firm hand but I don't smack/spank. Neither do I use a playpen or a walker although due to the layout of my old home I used one gate for the kitchen which I used when I was cooking and baby was mobile (my eldest was on her feet walking before 9 months and I had a small narrow kitchen.)
I don't think that freedom has to be sacrificed in order to gently discipline a child tbh, although I think restricting freedom can be a tool to discipline as a child gets older and can understand the relationship between earning trust and being given increased freedom and independence.
I protect where necessary for the childs age and allow freedom where appropriate. If baby went to touch something uncovered, (especially when visiting as people with older or no children don't generally babyproof), then If I was close enough to physically reprimand a child I'd be close enough to get quickly down to their level and firmly redirect, guide or remove them with a simple fim instruction/warning word. Assuming the physical reprimand does not cause pain as has been said and is simply a shock tactic, then this would presumably have as much impact as a 'tap'. I know some people use 'owie' words to get the point across and as has been previously pointed out children are remarkable learners and can connect pain to objects quite early. This way though there is no confusion which could be argued may be involved when a parent smacks a hand (the argument being that the focus on the pain can in some children distract from the importance of the instruction.)
If out walking my kids liked to explore as much as the next child and were often without a restraint so that they could run ahead but if we were in a busy mall or near a main road then they would be in a sling, holding an adults hand or in a buggy/restraint until such time as they learned basic traffic/road sense. I found 'The traffic club' a great resource for this which is sent out by the govt when children here are 3, we started it earlier with dd2 because we had a copy of dd1s. It worked very well and dd2 was able to be trusted from a very young age while out and about.
I do think it is important to babyproof to some extent and supervise an infant who is too small to understand basic instructions. If a small infant hurts themselves badly because they were allowed unsupervised access to a dangerous environment then I think we would all ask where the parent was, not whether the baby should have known better. A baby who can't understand basic instructions or consequences is unlikely to understand a tap any more than any other consequence.
As children get older it's simply a question of which consequences or methods we choose, but I think if a child is old enough to understand a tap then they are old enough to understand other consequences.
I probably give my two more freedom than some people on this forum would think was appropriate, but I trust them and feel that they've learned the lessons that they need to be allowed that freedom. I also think that it's important that kids realise from early on that freedom is a priveledge as a child and a right as an adult which can and will be removed as this is the consequence that our society uses through their life for not behaving appropriately within it's rules. They learn very quickly that this freedom can be removed very easily if they don't follow the lessons that they've learned as they've grown. I think in fact my eldest would much prefer a smacked arse than any of the consequences that we have in place for misbehaviour, she values her independence and freedom too much to enjoy having any removed.
Still, although I disagree that there are two basic schools of thought ie: firm discipline and freedom to explore versus protection and gentle discipline I do agree with your conclusion.

 

[PeanutBean]

Interesting read trumpetbum. I didn't mean to imply there are only two schools of thought in this parenting matter in the world, for goodness there are many! I meant only that so far most people who'd contributed to the thread seemed to err on one side or the other.

What's the traffic club? I don't think we have that here.

I'm only on my first child and he's not quite two, I've no doubt my parenting style will grow and change as my children do, as I have more children to manage, and as their needs and understanding change too. I think that flexibility and ability to adapt is one of those most important things in parenting, hence why I never read books! lol

 

[midori1999]

I clap my hands and it makes a noise and it does not hurt.

The skin on your palms is much tougher/thicker than the skin on th eback of your hands, and even the skin on the back of your hands is tougher than the skin on the back of a childs.

There is no way on this earth that anyone will have me believing that if you hit (and lets not beat about the bush here, whatever you call it, it is hitting) a 7 month old child on the back of the hand so hard it makes a noise, it hurts them. If it didn't hurt, and have a marked effect on the child, why on earth did it stop them going back to the oven again? A child of that age certainly wouldn't understand an explaination, even if they later turned out to be a genius.

 

[BlackBerry25]

OK well you obviously were in the room and you know me and my child.

I also said I explained it to her as best I could, I didn't say I just tapped her.

So maybe the tap worked, maybe the explanation worked, I don't know because I am not inside her body like you apparently are.

I don't think I said which side of her hand I tapped, now did I.

I don't get why people are nitpicking apart the one time I tapped my daughters hand and I myself said I do not spank, just the one instance which I do not count as spanking.

 

[BlackBerry25]

I never even said it made a noise.

I said I tapped her hand.

Things are blown way out of proportion in here lately.

 

[trumpetbum]

Interesting read trumpetbum. I didn't mean to imply there are only two schools of thought in this parenting matter in the world, for goodness there are many! I meant only that so far most people who'd contributed to the thread seemed to err on one side or the other.

What's the traffic club? I don't think we have that here.

I'm only on my first child and he's not quite two, I've no doubt my parenting style will grow and change as my children do, as I have more children to manage, and as their needs and understanding change too. I think that flexibility and ability to adapt is one of those most important things in parenting, hence why I never read books! lol

I'm glad it made sense, am in a bit of latent labour pain and trying to distract myself
Ita, and my jump from how I intended to parent my eldest and how I ended up parenting both of them changed dramatically and is always changing.

Traffic club is great, it's a scottish govt resource for 3-4 year olds (I didn't realise it was just a scottish thing) that is sent out to all parents of children around that age but I found it great even before then with my second. Here's a link
https://www.trafficclub.co.uk/

OASN: I do find my children incredibly adaptive and assume most children are, they respond to love and tend to be understanding which is why I think that as adults those of us who knew we were loved will understand our own parents actions even where we disagree with them and choose to parent differently. So even if we make mistakes or regret earlier decisions, we can know that if we made those decisions within a loving environment and with the best intentions our children will accept and understand this.
I'm reflecting on this because my girls came in and jumped on me for a cuddle when they came in from school and I screamed my head off at them like a banshee. Not my style usually but I hastily apologised and explained that I was having pains and didn't mean to react like that. They both accepted it, said it was ok and said sorry that they didn't know I was in pain. Poor kids, but I think that kids need to know that we are human. We often set ourselves up as perfect parents when they are babies and it's a high pedestal to fall off of, I have the bruises to prove it

 

[PeanutBean]

I completely agree. We are only human! And every day is a new day as a parent, with new circumstances and development in our children, however old they are, we don't really get to rehearse it after all! I also agree that loving your children and showing that is the most important thing. I love how cuddly my boy has got recently. I am so ill all the time, always lying around unable to do much because of retching, but having been cross with me for neglecting him for a while he now seems to be coming round to it, comes running in to see me in the morning, sits on the bed with me for a cuddle and stories, holds my hand if we watch some TV together (supersweet!). I know I can make up this time with him when I'm on leave again, kids are naturally quite forgiving I think.

Congrats on being so close to term, somehow I never noticed your ticker! Hope it's not long for you and is an easy ride.

 

[Eve]

I don't think "tapping" is abuse... and I don't think anyone has the right to judge anyone they don't know, unless they are abusing their children etc..., which I highly doubt the poor moms in this thread are/ever did/ever will! I don't think the Moms on here should even feel the need to explain themselves, as they are good moms and the very few people who pass the judgement obviously are not seeing the whole picture. I know people who spank their children, actually spank, and their kids are fine... and I know people who don't spank, yell, etc... at all and their kids are brats, or violent... it can be caused by more than a smack... I was spanked, and I don't think it bothered me. I still love my Mom more than anything, she is one of the best, sweetest, loving, caring moms I know She spanked my butt with a plastic spoon at that and well, I'm fine. I don't think we should "spank" our children, but it has nothing to do with my mom, or how she diciplined us. She smacked me in the face once... I was a rotton,know it all teen and was downright a bitch, and during an argument with my mom, I called her an FB and she smacked me and knocked me on my rear! I wasn't even mad about it, and in fact I felt bad for her because she cried after and was apologising to me, which even back then, I thought she shouldn't have. Again, I don't agree with spanking, and I do think there are other ways to deal with it of course, but I don't pass judgement on someone for swatting the occasional behind, or "tapping" their child's hand.... I think more effort should be put into stopping domestic violence and child abuse with the passion and time some people seem to have on here though... most people in the real world turn their heads and ignore it, which is such a sin...

 

[midori1999]

Blackberry, we will have to agree to disagree. There is no way you will ever have me believe that 'tapping' (which you yourself described as 'to strike lightly but audibly' (ony the two aren't condusive to each other IMO)) a 7 month old child is acceptable or there isn't a more effective and better way to parent. If you feel comfortable with it, then that is fine for you. Like I sadi earlier, I wouldn't class it as child abuse, but I do findit abhorrent when a child is still a baby.

I don't think "tapping" is abuse... and I don't think anyone has the right to judge anyone they don't know, unless they are abusing their children etc..., which I highly doubt the poor moms in this thread are/ever did/ever will! I don't think the Moms on here should even feel the need to explain themselves, as they are good moms and the very few people who pass the judgement obviously are not seeing the whole picture. I know people who spank their children, actually spank, and their kids are fine... and I know people who don't spank, yell, etc... at all and their kids are brats, or violent... it can be caused by more than a smack... I was spanked, and I don't think it bothered me. I still love my Mom more than anything, she is one of the best, sweetest, loving, caring moms I know She spanked my butt with a plastic spoon at that and well, I'm fine. I don't think we should "spank" our children, but it has nothing to do with my mom, or how she diciplined us. She smacked me in the face once... I was a rotton,know it all teen and was downright a bitch, and during an argument with my mom, I called her an FB and she smacked me and knocked me on my rear! I wasn't even mad about it, and in fact I felt bad for her because she cried after and was apologising to me, which even back then, I thought she shouldn't have. Again, I don't agree with spanking, and I do think there are other ways to deal with it of course, but I don't pass judgement on someone for swatting the occasional behind, or "tapping" their child's hand.... I think more effort should be put into stopping domestic violence and child abuse with the passion and time some people seem to have on here though... most people in the real world turn their heads and ignore it, which is such a sin...

I don't know your Mum and I am not disagreeing with what you are saying at all, neither am I suggesting you were abused, absolutely not, but I have worked with seriously abused children and it is amazing how many of them still wish to live with their parents and who love them unconditionally and absolutely, in spite of that abuse.