Spanking

[Tiff]

Thats understandable Tiff. I hope you where not thinking when I said about fear that was the situation I meant as its not. I rather shout at my kid for running near a road than have them flattened that sort of fear should be there, cars should equal scary! I seen a 10 year old boy run down when I was younger, I stood right beside him and seen his injuries he did die on the road there. He ran out without looking. He coincidently would be related to my son as he was my boyfriends cousin only I didnt know him then.

That is so sad. I totally would've been traumatized by that for sure!

 

[cleckner04]

IME, it is a word people use because they don't want to admit to smacking because they are aware it is wrong but don't know how to parent effectively.

Wow. Words fail me.

Is it lonely up there on your high horse?

Oh, so everyone else is allowed an opinion based on their experience, but I am not allowed to give one based on mine and when I do it 'shocks' people...

If you think I am 'on my high horse' that is fine. I do feel very proud that I have managed to raise three boys pretty much by myself who have/are turning out to be lovely children/teenagers without ever having to have resorted to smacking, hitting, tapping or whatever else. If that makes me 'on my high horse', so be it.[/QUOTE]

Oh no. You are PERFECTLY entitled to have an opinion. But by saying people don't know how to parent effectively you insulted most of the women on this thread. I don't personally spank and tapped my daughters hand once and regretted it greatly. I raise my daughter by myself. Her daddy is off in the military and I do it all by myself with no family or friends to help while I'm 1400 miles from my true home. I don't have any questions about how hard that is. But I would NEVER tell someone they don't know how to parent. No one is perfect and everyone does things differently. I think people making a baby cry in a crib to fall asleep at night is truly horrible and cruel. But do I tell people that use CIO techniques that they don't know how to parent? No, because they just do things different than me. Neither party is a bad parent, just different.


I think there are times and places for the odd spank or tap. Like Tiff's story of her daughter running for the cars. If that one smack on the hand got her point across and her daughter doesn't do it again, than what's the harm. It's most certainly not child abuse and I think no less of her for doing it.

 

[trumpetbum]

I don't really care if that makes me a "bad" parent. I think a fear of the road, with cars and whatnot is healthy. If that makes me an abusive or bad parent, so be it. I do what I feel is best for my child and I'd rather her be a bit afraid of the road rather than run towards it with no fear and get hit by a car.

While I think that you can instill road sense and a healthy fear of the danger that a road can pose without spanking of any form, for me, roads are more of a daily danger for the exploring older child than 'stranger danger'. I think this is why the road example comes up in these debates over and over, because it's such a terrifying scenario for a parent.

 

[midori1999]

I find it quite suprising that no-one thinks there are more effective ways to parent/control a 7 month old baby's behaviour than to resort to 'tapping' them on the hand, but maybe I am wierd...

Lets not forget that nurseries/child minders etc are not allowed to hit, smack or tap any child within their care, bu tyet manage to control their behaviour effectively and prevent the children in their care coming to serious harm.

I have given my opinion, as have others. I personally feel that there are more effective ways to parent than to smack/hit/tap/whatever. I have said several times now on this thread that I do not feel that smacking in any form is child abuse unless it leaves a mark.

Smacking/hitting/tapping is not a route that I wish to go down with my children and have never felt the need to do so. I am happy with my choice. If others choose to go down that route, then whilst it is still legal in this country (and it's not in some) then that is absolutely their choice. If they are happy with that then of course, that is fine. But just like breast/bottle feeding, dummies or whatever, others will have opinions on it.

If you are perfectly happy with your choices as a parent, and parenting within the law, that's great. Why would you care less what anyone else thinks?

 

[Dragonfly]

I find it quite suprising that no-one thinks there are more effective ways to parent/control a 7 month old baby's behaviour than to resort to 'tapping' them on the hand, but maybe I am wierd...

Lets not forget that nurseries/child minders etc are not allowed to hit, smack or tap any child within their care, bu tyet manage to control their behaviour effectively and prevent the children in their care coming to serious harm.

I have given my opinion, as have others. I personally feel that there are more effective ways to parent than to smack/hit/tap/whatever. I have said several times now on this thread that I do not feel that smacking in any form is child abuse unless it leaves a mark.

Smacking/hitting/tapping is not a route that I wish to go down with my children and have never felt the need to do so. I am happy with my choice. If others choose to go down that route, then whilst it is still legal in this country (and it's not in some) then that is absolutely their choice. If they are happy with that then of course, that is fine. But just like breast/bottle feeding, dummies or whatever, others will have opinions on it.

If you are perfectly happy with your choices as a parent, and parenting within the law, that's great. Why would you care less what anyone else thinks?

I do agree with what you said.

 

[Tiff]

I find it quite suprising that no-one thinks there are more effective ways to parent/control a 7 month old baby's behaviour than to resort to 'tapping' them on the hand, but maybe I am wierd...

Lets not forget that nurseries/child minders etc are not allowed to hit, smack or tap any child within their care, bu tyet manage to control their behaviour effectively and prevent the children in their care coming to serious harm.

I have given my opinion, as have others. I personally feel that there are more effective ways to parent than to smack/hit/tap/whatever. I have said several times now on this thread that I do not feel that smacking in any form is child abuse unless it leaves a mark.

Smacking/hitting/tapping is not a route that I wish to go down with my children and have never felt the need to do so. I am happy with my choice. If others choose to go down that route, then whilst it is still legal in this country (and it's not in some) then that is absolutely their choice. If they are happy with that then of course, that is fine. But just like breast/bottle feeding, dummies or whatever, others will have opinions on it.

If you are perfectly happy with your choices as a parent, and parenting within the law, that's great. Why would you care less what anyone else thinks?

I don't.

 

[PeanutBean]

Well midori given that many children come home from nursery having learned all kinds of new and naughty things like hitting, biting, tantrums to name but a few, I don't think childminders do 'parent' effectively. However as they are not the parents of the children and have certain limitations I myself don't expect any more from them.

I imagine everyone on this thread is happy with the way they parent but this is a discussion thread so people are kindly sharing their experiences and opinions. I very much doubt anyone does care what anyone else thinks, we're just discussing the issue.

 

[Dragonfly]

I find discussing things helps me gain whats its like from someone elses side that I wouldnt know about if you get me. Or even different techniques, not that anyone has to try them its good to know as much as you can thats what helps poeple learn I believe.

 

[RainbowDrop_x]

I don't agree with spanking.

But I think there's a difference between a slap (or whatever you want to call it) on the hand and installing fear into a child. I will NEVER hit my child to hurt or harm her but a little tap on the wrist when all else fails or as a last resort I don't see the harm. Aslong as it's not everyday and isn't always the last resort iykwim?

EDITED TO SAY: I certainly wouldn't tap her on the hand at the age she is now.. And if I was too tap her on the hand she would have to be at an age where she understand's WHY she was tapped on the hand.

 

[melorablack]

I believe it should be left to the main carer of the child to decide what punishment is appropriate (and I mean reasonable punishment eg: a slap on the hand or bottom for being very naughty). There are too many people out there nowadays with a "You can't touch me" attitude and no respect for anyone or anything.

 

[redpoppy]

I believe it should be left to the main carer of the child to decide what punishment is appropriate (and I mean reasonable punishment eg: a slap on the hand or bottom for being very naughty). There are too many people out there nowadays with a "You can't touch me" attitude and no respect for anyone or anything.

I don't mean to make this personal as this is a common view but it's one that sends me crazy.

The "you can't touch me attitude" and having no respect for anything or anyone has nothing to do with people NOT being smacked as kids. In fact MANY people with that attitude WERE smacked as kids. I don't understand and hate the idea that people still think if kids aren't smacked they'll "go bad" or something.

 

[redpoppy]

IME, it is a word people use because they don't want to admit to smacking because they are aware it is wrong but don't know how to parent effectively.

Wow. Words fail me.

Is it lonely up there on your high horse?

Oh, so everyone else is allowed an opinion based on their experience, but I am not allowed to give one based on mine and when I do it 'shocks' people...

If you think I am 'on my high horse' that is fine. I do feel very proud that I have managed to raise three boys pretty much by myself who have/are turning out to be lovely children/teenagers without ever having to have resorted to smacking, hitting, tapping or whatever else. If that makes me 'on my high horse', so be it.

Oh no. You are PERFECTLY entitled to have an opinion. But by saying people don't know how to parent effectively you insulted most of the women on this thread. I don't personally spank and tapped my daughters hand once and regretted it greatly. I raise my daughter by myself. Her daddy is off in the military and I do it all by myself with no family or friends to help while I'm 1400 miles from my true home. I don't have any questions about how hard that is. But I would NEVER tell someone they don't know how to parent. No one is perfect and everyone does things differently. I think people making a baby cry in a crib to fall asleep at night is truly horrible and cruel. But do I tell people that use CIO techniques that they don't know how to parent? No, because they just do things different than me. Neither party is a bad parent, just different.


I think there are times and places for the odd spank or tap. Like Tiff's story of her daughter running for the cars. If that one smack on the hand got her point across and her daughter doesn't do it again, than what's the harm. It's most certainly not child abuse and I think no less of her for doing it. [/QUOTE]

I wanted to stick up for Midori for a moment (and I MAY have missed something she said that was particularly threatening or mean or something so please forgive me). We are on a debate thread and people will have opinions about what is good parenting and bad parenting. Just as I have been involved in LONG discussions with posters on the research, and actually proof of CC/CIO doing any real harm to children etc. People can say many things about "how can a mother leave her baby to cry, it's unnatural and inhumane" and I won't take it personally as I think its a normal and valid opinion.

In the same regard, there are many studies which point to the idea that parents do not need to hit their children, either hard or even symbolically as it's working a discipline of fear or disapproval. Disapproval can be expressed in other ways and fear need not be a part of parenting. I have the opinion that hitting your child does NOTHING to discipline them that other parenting skills would not teach them BUT it CAN do some harm although it's likely it won't do anything much at all other than perhaps pass on the idea that hitting is an essential part of parenting. If we just have a thread in which lots of mum's say "i hit my kids and I do the best I can and I was hit and there's nothing wrong with me" then it's not really a debate.

Why is hitting a normal part of anyone's parenting? The only thing hitting achieves it seems is stop a kid who can't be reasoned with from doing something for the near future. Surely this should be reserved for times of danger? And how many times in a child's life are they really in danger? Also very young children don't have the memory needed to remember the thing they're not supposed to do. They'll forget it. then if you have to hit them each time it's not really fair in my opinion.

Instead of getting into a wrangle about each other's views how about people explain why they think smacking is ever needed.

All meant with the best intentions for debate and discussion!

 

[Eve]

IME, it is a word people use because they don't want to admit to smacking because they are aware it is wrong but don't know how to parent effectively.

Wow. Words fail me.

Is it lonely up there on your high horse?

Oh, so everyone else is allowed an opinion based on their experience, but I am not allowed to give one based on mine and when I do it 'shocks' people...

If you think I am 'on my high horse' that is fine. I do feel very proud that I have managed to raise three boys pretty much by myself who have/are turning out to be lovely children/teenagers without ever having to have resorted to smacking, hitting, tapping or whatever else. If that makes me 'on my high horse', so be it.

Oh no. You are PERFECTLY entitled to have an opinion. But by saying people don't know how to parent effectively you insulted most of the women on this thread. I don't personally spank and tapped my daughters hand once and regretted it greatly. I raise my daughter by myself. Her daddy is off in the military and I do it all by myself with no family or friends to help while I'm 1400 miles from my true home. I don't have any questions about how hard that is. But I would NEVER tell someone they don't know how to parent. No one is perfect and everyone does things differently. I think people making a baby cry in a crib to fall asleep at night is truly horrible and cruel. But do I tell people that use CIO techniques that they don't know how to parent? No, because they just do things different than me. Neither party is a bad parent, just different.


I think there are times and places for the odd spank or tap. Like Tiff's story of her daughter running for the cars. If that one smack on the hand got her point across and her daughter doesn't do it again, than what's the harm. It's most certainly not child abuse and I think no less of her for doing it.

I wanted to stick up for Midori for a moment (and I MAY have missed something she said that was particularly threatening or mean or something so please forgive me). We are on a debate thread and people will have opinions about what is good parenting and bad parenting. Just as I have been involved in LONG discussions with posters on the research, and actually proof of CC/CIO doing any real harm to children etc. People can say many things about "how can a mother leave her baby to cry, it's unnatural and inhumane" and I won't take it personally as I think its a normal and valid opinion.

In the same regard, there are many studies which point to the idea that parents do not need to hit their children, either hard or even symbolically as it's working a discipline of fear or disapproval. Disapproval can be expressed in other ways and fear need not be a part of parenting. I have the opinion that hitting your child does NOTHING to discipline them that other parenting skills would not teach them BUT it CAN do some harm although it's likely it won't do anything much at all other than perhaps pass on the idea that hitting is an essential part of parenting. If we just have a thread in which lots of mum's say "i hit my kids and I do the best I can and I was hit and there's nothing wrong with me" then it's not really a debate.

Why is hitting a normal part of anyone's parenting? The only thing hitting achieves it seems is stop a kid who can't be reasoned with from doing something for the near future. Surely this should be reserved for times of danger? And how many times in a child's life are they really in danger? Also very young children don't have the memory needed to remember the thing they're not supposed to do. They'll forget it. then if you have to hit them each time it's not really fair in my opinion.

Instead of getting into a wrangle about each other's views how about people explain why they think smacking is ever needed.

All meant with the best intentions for debate and discussion!

I just think there is a difference between stating your opinion and offending people... Calling someone a bad parent, or trying to twist what was said/done isn't being nice, and not called for even in a debate. I think personal attacks on someone's parenting shouldn't be brought up... In general, yes... Like you mentioned with CIO, I do not agree with it, I have my own reasons, and to not offend I wouldn't state them, I simply do not think it's for me. Like spanking, not for me, but if I seen someone give their child a swat (not tap) on the butt for something in which could cause harm to the child or someone else, I wouldn't pass judgement. It seemed like the poster wasn't understanding the other posts fully, as they "tapped" their child, and one gorgeous lady even said how terribly she regretted it... but it was just a tap... words do not need to be twisted on such a strong subject. It offends and hurts people, and those people also then, have every right to say how they feel...
Really tired so I hope this makes sense. I just know one of the ladies hardly has anything slightly negative to say, so seeing her speak up for herself here I think was a good thing...and I think it was called for. Again though, this is just my opinion, and I do respect you, as everyone else, has their own We are all (well mostly) Moms here, with loads of compassion and understanding for eachother

 

[Eve]

I think it may be called for to protect from immediate or imminent danger if the behavior continues... and No, I do not think it's abuse... if it were it wouldn't be legal here in Canada to spank your child with an open hand on the bum until 12 yrs old Again, not that I agree with doing it...

Oh, a little off topic but how many of you have let your child below the age of 12 walk to a friends house down the street? Did you know child and family services states you aren't allowed to until they are 12... ? I do understand, and my son doesn't leave my sight without me but I don't think many parents do know this... and most I know have let their children out of their sight before 12...

 

[Eve]

I believe it should be left to the main carer of the child to decide what punishment is appropriate (and I mean reasonable punishment eg: a slap on the hand or bottom for being very naughty). There are too many people out there nowadays with a "You can't touch me" attitude and no respect for anyone or anything.

My son came home from school one day and he was being quite the pain in the rear end, anyways... I said to him "I should swat your butt for that" and he came back with "My teacher said you aren't allowed to spank me, it's abuse, so there!" I wanted to throttle his teacher! Yes, she should talk to him about abuse, and how there are many things even Mommy and Daddy don't have the right to do, but to tell my son spaking his bum was abuse I found wrong. I think teachers are giving a lot more of their personl opinions. My son's teacher now will not let them do/have anything they ask unless they say may I... Yes, it's polite but if my son says Can I go to the washroom please? I don't think she should be able to make him say something else due to personal preference! I know, again OT but it pisses me off! Everything is so different now days. I don't think spanking would help bring our youth under control any better, I do think Positive parenting, cuddling it out, breastfeeding,less time out working away from home, more time home, more afterschool programs, etc... would help humanity though! We work too hard, for too little... and our children suffer from the lack of any structure... not all but I think you all kwim lol

 

[cherryglitter]

Oh dear, I can't believe tapping/spanking your child has been compared to the likes of child abuse.

Clearly, some people have witnessed different things in their lives. Child abuse to me is making your child sniff ammonia from a bathroom floor or making them eat sticks, or dragging them around the floor with a rope tied to a car. That to me, is child abuse. I'd suggest a book like A child called It, that is a definition of child abuse.

I've started a thread like this before and I got it closed. Too many things got misconstrued. I would never tap Jake on the hand at the age he is now, as he has no idea what he's doing!!

However if needs be when he is older then yes, I will tap/smack/hit whatever you want to call it! Not to instill fear in him but to make sure he understands that what he was doing is wrong. I would never do this straight away of course. I will try things like the naughty step. I've seen too many children get away with murder, sorry but I have! That could just be the people I know or the children they have.

I don't want Jake to grow up thinking hitting someone is okay, but I was spanked/smacked/hit or whatever you want to call it as a child, and I don't think it's okay to go around smacking people whenever I don't get my way.

Oh and I don't believe for one minute that anyone on this forum would EVER want to PURPOSELY hurt their child. Implying something like that is ridiculous in my opinion and disgusting.

 

[redpoppy]

Oh dear, I can't believe tapping/spanking your child has been compared to the likes of child abuse.

Clearly, some people have witnessed different things in their lives. Child abuse to me is making your child sniff ammonia from a bathroom floor or making them eat sticks, or dragging them around the floor with a rope tied to a car. That to me, is child abuse. I'd suggest a book like A child called It, that is a definition of child abuse.

I've started a thread like this before and I got it closed. Too many things got misconstrued. I would never tap Jake on the hand at the age he is now, as he has no idea what he's doing!!

However if needs be when he is older then yes, I will tap/smack/hit whatever you want to call it! Not to instill fear in him but to make sure he understands that what he was doing is wrong. I would never do this straight away of course. I will try things like the naughty step. I've seen too many children get away with murder, sorry but I have! That could just be the people I know or the children they have.

I don't want Jake to grow up thinking hitting someone is okay, but I was spanked/smacked/hit or whatever you want to call it as a child, and I don't think it's okay to go around smacking people whenever I don't get my way.

Oh and I don't believe for one minute that anyone on this forum would EVER want to PURPOSELY hurt their child. Implying something like that is ridiculous in my opinion and disgusting.

I'm not putting this question to you but to everyone who believes in smacking their children.

Why do you think there is a need to smack your children?

Do you HONESTLY believe that kids that have no discipline and "get away with murder" do so because they are not smacked? This is a question I'd REALLY liked answered by all those who keep repeating it. "kids get away with so much nowadays" "some kids have no respect" etc. DO you HONESTLY with all your faculties think that those kids are being brought up in nurturing and disciplined homes and the only problem is that they're not being smacked?

When most research and studies show and almost all modern child psychologists agree that smacking a child is not only unnecessary but also ineffective compared to other disciplinary methods why would you keep smacking on the table as an option? And I ask this with all honesty and empathy. Is it because you don't have time? Is it because you aren't aware of how else to discipline your children without smacking them?

As someone who was NEVER smacked I had a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE temper and not once did I ever swear at my mother, get violent, or "get away with murder". Yes I was disrespectful, yes I shouted, yes I expressed what at the time I thought was the right point of view but looking back was a terrible adolescent mess of emotional turmoil, but whether I were to have been hit or not I don't see how I would have turned out different. I'm one of 14 cousins 11 of us who were also never hit. None of us "don't know right from wrong" or "have no respect" or any of that nonsense. We're stable and caring and REASONABLE people who don't think smacking a teenager when they say or act a certain way is justified "because they deserve it".

Why hit your kids when you don't have to?

And back to my crux.
1. if a child is too young to reason then smacking them seems cruel and a little pointless.
2. When a child can reason why smack them to teach them right from wrong when you can reason with them, tell them off, take away privileges and freedoms, etc. etc. etc?

 

[cherryglitter]

Like I said, i'll try other 'methods' before smacking Jake. To be honest I really can't be bothered to get into it all. It's the way I will discipline Jake and that it is really.

No one will change my mind. I don't think all children who get away with murder HAVEN'T been smacked, at all. I just think there are children out there where all other methods haven't 'worked' so that child is just left to run riot as their parent is too scared to give their child a tap on the hand for fear of what may be thought of them.

If someone were to say something to be about tapping Jake on the hand in public, god knows what I would say back to them. I'd probably be thrown out of the supermarket. No one can judge me on how I am going to bring Jake up. He is MY child. Not yours. I dont agree with your parenting skills, you don't agree with mine. So what.

We don't all agree with everybody we know.

 

[redpoppy]

Like I said, i'll try other 'methods' before smacking Jake. To be honest I really can't be bothered to get into it all. It's the way I will discipline Jake and that it is really.

No one will change my mind. I don't think all children who get away with murder HAVEN'T been smacked, at all. I just think there are children out there where all other methods haven't 'worked' so that child is just left to run riot as their parent is too scared to give their child a tap on the hand for fear of what may be thought of them.

If someone were to say something to be about tapping Jake on the hand in public, god knows what I would say back to them. I'd probably be thrown out of the supermarket. No one can judge me on how I am going to bring Jake up. He is MY child. Not yours. I dont agree with your parenting skills, you don't agree with mine. So what.

We don't all agree with everybody we know.

Hmmmm... A strange response to my questions in my opinion.
I have no intention of changing your mind and I don't think you'll be a bad parent or disagree with your "parenting skills".

 

[ShanandBoc]

And back to my crux.
1. if a child is too young to reason then smacking them seems cruel and a little pointless.
2. When a child can reason why smack them to teach them right from wrong when you can reason with them, tell them off, take away privileges and freedoms, etc. etc. etc?

Very valid point redpoppy.