Struggling with female factor infertility

[Hatethewait85]

Ugh. Bummer they had to push back your lap. Hopefully they don't find much of anything and you recover nice and quick! I have a wedding to go to that weekend and I'm kind of bummed it takes up my long weekend... how selfish of me!!

I've seen a lot of women on here do MANY more cycles of clomid than what's recommended and I always wonder why? Too scary to go past the recommended 6 in my opinion. I only did 4 cycles before I gave up on that.

I'll be sure to keep you updated on herbs/acupuncture. I just ordered some of the vitamins my acupuncturist recommended (food-based prenatal, DHA, magnesium, and coq10) this morning and they should get here on Monday. She's making a custom herb mix (if I remember correctly I'll mix it in water?? not sure) so I will hopefully get that when I go in for acupuncture Thursday. There's a lot of good data to support acupuncture with fertility treatment, I just haven't been successful yet. My acupuncturist has been itching to get me on herbs since I started seeing her but my fs wouldn't let me take any (and I wasn't really open to it anyway at that point). I was thisclose to buying ovaboost, but ended up not doing it for now. I thought I'd stick to the herbs and supplements my acupuncturist recommended for now and think about it in a few months if I'm still delaying my IVF.

You'll have to let us know if you find any really good info in your books etc. I came across another thread somewhere recommending those books too.

I've seen how much cheaper it can be to do IVF in another country. I just don't think I could justify the time away/off work. But it'd be a cool way to see another country if you can make it work.

It's interesting what you read about DOR being too 'lazy.' Maybe that is what happened with my friend. In any case, they were all surprised at her response!

 

[Coolstar]

Hatethewait, I don't have any frozen embryos. Had 3 retrieved, 2 fertilized and transferred. None left. It's good that you have started with acupuncture, alternative treatment do helps many time. Are you planning to go for next ivf soon?
Christi, sorry your lap got postponed. Doing ivf overseas is a good idea specially since you have your family in Greece.

 

[Hatethewait85]

Hatethewait, I don't have any frozen embryos. Had 3 retrieved, 2 fertilized and transferred. None left. It's good that you have started with acupuncture, alternative treatment do helps many time. Are you planning to go for next ivf soon?
Christi, sorry your lap got postponed. Doing ivf overseas is a good idea specially since you have your family in Greece.

Sorry to hear you weren't able to have any leftover for FET. I hope you get your natural BFP though while you wait! Have you ever thought of doing acupuncture?

I'll do my next IVF in a few months (thinking August-ish) as long as my acupuncturist feels I've made enough progress. She said some couples she's had to work with for more than a year before they were 'ready to try again'. I don't really want to delay IVF that long but I also want to make sure my body is in the best state possible before going through that again.

 

[Christi85]

I'll be sure to keep you updated on herbs/acupuncture. I just ordered some of the vitamins my acupuncturist recommended (food-based prenatal, DHA, magnesium, and coq10) this morning and they should get here on Monday. She's making a custom herb mix (if I remember correctly I'll mix it in water?? not sure) so I will hopefully get that when I go in for acupuncture Thursday. There's a lot of good data to support acupuncture with fertility treatment, I just haven't been successful yet. My acupuncturist has been itching to get me on herbs since I started seeing her but my fs wouldn't let me take any (and I wasn't really open to it anyway at that point). I was thisclose to buying ovaboost, but ended up not doing it for now. I thought I'd stick to the herbs and supplements my acupuncturist recommended for now and think about it in a few months if I'm still delaying my IVF.

You'll have to let us know if you find any really good info in your books etc. I came across another thread somewhere recommending those books too.

I've seen how much cheaper it can be to do IVF in another country. I just don't think I could justify the time away/off work. But it'd be a cool way to see another country if you can make it work.

Yes, do keep us posted about how it goes with your herbs. I've never taken Ovaboost and don't endorse it (since I have no experience with it), but I have read many good reviews. Same for me, I'm keeping it in mind for later.

My books are due to arrive Wednesday - can't wait

As for doing IVF abroad, in my case it wouldn't exactly be seeing another country, as I was born and raised in Greece until I was 22, and my whole family is there. The reason I'm in the US is because I married a US citizen, but I've been visiting Greece once a year (not sure what will happen this year though - too caught up with the fertility stuff). So nothing new for me to see there but definitely a familiar environment, no language barriers with the doctors, being among family and friends etc. All good in my book. The cost there comes out to about $5,000 all included for a fresh IVF cycle (and about half that for a frozen cycle), and about $8,000 for DE IVF. Of course the flights are extra, but we'd be going anyway to visit, and we won't have accommodation costs, since we always stay at my parents' home. I do hear you about work. I'm self employed and have a flexible schedule, so I could possibly spend 1-2 months there, but if I don't work, I don't get paid, so it's not like I can spend an unlimited amount of time away from my business. As for my husband, he can only take 2 weeks off work. If we decided to go down that route, I don't expect the logistical planning to be easy. But the savings would be worth it I hope

 

[Pirate]

I didn't even know that international IVF/donor egg IVF was an option. The cost savings is amazing! I know it would take a lot of planning but it seems like it could really work out.

 

[Hatethewait85]

Oh yes! I forgot you said you had family in Greece! That would make it a bit easier logistically speaking and 'more affordable' in the sense that you'd a) be going there anyway and b) won't have lodging costs. That's awesome! I've never seen the cost spelled out like that either - sooo much less expensive to do it in Greece. My fresh cycle + FET was 11K + meds (< 3k?)... It's a bit depressing to type it out like that! For DE IVF my doc said it was about 22K + meds, but that includes up to 3 FET ( I think that's what she said). Anyway you slice it the cost savings definitely makes it a great idea for you. I have no overseas connection so the cost would add up pretty fast for me! Hopefully your lifestyle focus right now will get you your BFP soon.

 

[Pirate]

@Hatethewait, I just noticed the dog in your avatar pic! Adorable! (I'm totally a crazy dog lady!)

 

[Hatethewait85]

Thanks Pirate!! I'm a crazy dog lady too. That's Riley - hubs and I call her our 'redneck' as she hails from Kentucky (hopefully no one takes offense to that!!). She's some sort of hound mix and I love her to pieces even though she's a bit of a spaz! We've had her just over 2 years and we've been taking her to doggy daycare every day since because she has so much energy.... oops, not sure you wanted all this information about my dog Once I get started I can't stop! Told you I'm a crazy dog lady. I assume you have a dog, too?

 

[Pirate]

Thanks Pirate!! I'm a crazy dog lady too. That's Riley - hubs and I call her our 'redneck' as she hails from Kentucky (hopefully no one takes offense to that!!). She's some sort of hound mix and I love her to pieces even though she's a bit of a spaz! We've had her just over 2 years and we've been taking her to doggy daycare every day since because she has so much energy.... oops, not sure you wanted all this information about my dog Once I get started I can't stop! Told you I'm a crazy dog lady. I assume you have a dog, too?

We do have a dog! He's a 5.5 year old Weimaraner that we rescued from an animal shelter on the Indiana/Ohio border when he was 14 weeks old. I feel you on the energy level, though Ziggie seems to be a ton calmer than he was when he was younger. We usually only need to do daycare two days a week now.

 

[Christi85]

My books came in the mail yesterday!
At last! Can't wait to start reading them.

 

[Pirate]

Yay! Happy reading!

 

[Hatethewait85]

Pirate- I love Weimaraners (even though I struggle to say that!!). Bet he's a total cutie! As of next week we are trying to cut Riley down to just 3 days a week for doggy daycare. Hubs is going to use it as motivation for him to take her running. We'll see how she does! Rescue dogs are the best though!

Christi- Yay for new reading material Enjoy!

AFM- A few days into the herbs and I haven't noticed much of anything... not sure if I'm supposed to notice something by now or not. Have my first acu session tonight since starting so I guess I'll see what she says. Also finally got on the schedule to see the reproductive immunologist. Her first available appointment isn't until the end of July Crazy. Also, I have to be sure AF isn't visiting for the appointment. My cycles are somewhat variable and have been anywhere from 29-33 days, so I have a hard time knowing exactly when she'll be here. AND AF typically hangs around for far too long (5-7 days ) so based on my math it's possible she'll be here then... but it's just as possible she won't be if my cycles are on the shorter side. Plus the addition of the herbs makes it even more of a challenge because they may change my cycle too. So, when I was on the phone with the scheduler I asked if it would be a problem to take bcp if needed to make sure things were fine and her response "we don't give medical advice." Seriously?! I'm not asking you to prescribe it. I just want to know if it will interfere with the testing!! GRR. Oh well. I guess we'll just have to see what happens. I'm secretly hoping to fall pregnant naturally before then Don't worry, I won't hold my breath!

 

[Christi85]

AFM- A few days into the herbs and I haven't noticed much of anything... not sure if I'm supposed to notice something by now or not. Have my first acu session tonight since starting so I guess I'll see what she says. Also finally got on the schedule to see the reproductive immunologist. Her first available appointment isn't until the end of July Crazy. Also, I have to be sure AF isn't visiting for the appointment. My cycles are somewhat variable and have been anywhere from 29-33 days, so I have a hard time knowing exactly when she'll be here. AND AF typically hangs around for far too long (5-7 days ) so based on my math it's possible she'll be here then... but it's just as possible she won't be if my cycles are on the shorter side. Plus the addition of the herbs makes it even more of a challenge because they may change my cycle too. So, when I was on the phone with the scheduler I asked if it would be a problem to take bcp if needed to make sure things were fine and her response "we don't give medical advice." Seriously?! I'm not asking you to prescribe it. I just want to know if it will interfere with the testing!! GRR. Oh well. I guess we'll just have to see what happens. I'm secretly hoping to fall pregnant naturally before then Don't worry, I won't hold my breath!

Ugh, everything has to be complicated, doesn't it?
Any chance you can go to another reproductive immunologist who can see you sooner? I bet she's probably very good though, if her waiting times are 3 months. She must be in very high demand. The herbs will probably take some time to make a difference - even a few months. I'd say just give it some time and see how it goes, and if you have concerns, definitely talk to your naturopath. They're there to help us! Maybe it's worth consulting your RE or your regular OB/GYN about bcp. I've no clue what reproductive immunologists do, but even if you were on your period when you saw her, would it be that bad? As in, would she do certain tests that require you not to be on your period, or is it just for you to feel more comfortable in case she did a physical? Sorry, I'm totally clueless

 

[Ariannda]

I totally dropped the ball here, sorry.

My story is a bit easier than what you all are facing im afraid. We didn't want to do IVF, mostly because of cost. My DH has no interest in adoption,im slightly put off because im adopted but I understand where he's coming from

I scheduled a tubal recannulization which is like a cardiac cath procedure where they use a flexible spring to poke open your tubes, it's done by a cardiologist (which is why fertility specialists dont discuss it, it doesn't benefit them). He actually dida secondary HSG and after they deposited the dye he inserted a cardiac cath balloon past my cervix and inflated it. BAM dye in the tubes with spillage on the right. They couldn't determine if the left was open or blocked at the ovary however.

We went to see an RE and I'd happened to take Clomid that cycle, in Feb and they started me right then. I had 4 follicles, 2 dominant on the left and 2 smaller on the right. We went ahead and did the IUI not knowing if the left tube was blocked because "you could always release an egg on the right and conceive as well". It didn't work. They upped my Clomid to 100mg and added a trigger shot, we did the IUI and there you go.

In the end it seems so simple, but we ttc for almost 3 years with everything appearing to be normal, it's really hard to get pregnant without an egg coming out of the tube ! Our RE was at the local University and they were AMAZING. They took everything i'd already had done and made several suggestions. We were going to change tactics after March because I dont want to pay for something OOP that has the smallest chance of working (ie ovulation on the left, which is blocked). Also given my husbands sperm issues we felt more targets were a better option, I actually had no idea i'd actually end up pregnant with twins. My husband had just come to the conclusion that he just wasn't going to have children of his own, you can imagine how thrilled HE is, i have to have a twin pregnancy

Also my RE gave me VERY clear statistics. Couples with zero issues have a 20% chance of conceiving every month. Couples with both male and female factors can have the same success rates with IUI, depending on the issues. Low sperm count or motility ? the wash helps take out the bad sperm, and it takes 1 sperm and 1 egg, so they'll do an IUI with as little as 1mill sperm post wash. Ovulatory problems ? They'll work with stimming and ovulation induction as well as progesterone, etc to figure out why conception isn't happening, AND why a pregnancy isn't progressing in the case of failure, as there's a difference between failure to conceive and failure to implant, carry etc. If you're not satisfied with where you are, go elsewhere. Also our insurance covered infertility (testing, diagnosis and some medications) but not fertility. We used our entire deductible (which we havent been billed for yet lol) at the RE in 2 months basically, so now everything else will run us 10%. I did pay OOP for clomid, and trigger shots etc but they weren't terribly expensive. Different pharmacies charge differently for meds, especially fertility meds. Also clinics will charge varying prices so it may pay to "shop around" until you find a price and clinic you like

For what it's worth I understand how people feel about donor eggs, but genetics isn't what makes you love a child. For me, i'd have done donor eggs in a heartbeat as Im still the one to carry the child, but thats just me.

 

[Hatethewait85]

Apparently this RI is very good and I'm in no hurry so I don't mind waiting to see what she has to say. I may call to see if I can get on a waiting list for canceled appointments (although my guess is not many people cancel- unless AF is in town!). I know they will do an internal ultrasound with a really fancy ultrasound probe that can actually evaluate how blood is flowing to the ovaries, uterus, etc. I know they can do internal ultrasounds while bleeding, but not sure if it will affect their evaluation of the blood flow? who knows. My acupuncturist isn't sure what the herbs will do for me as she says everyone is different. So it's hard to predict. I guess if AF is in town and I need to reschedule, I will. It will just push us back until Sept/Oct or so? If it looks like she may be here I'll call and try to talk to a nurse to ask about the bcp. I'm guessing they may be more helpful than the scheduler.

How's your book Christi? Any good advice/information to share yet?

 

[Christi85]

Apparently this RI is very good and I'm in no hurry so I don't mind waiting to see what she has to say. I may call to see if I can get on a waiting list for canceled appointments (although my guess is not many people cancel- unless AF is in town!). I know they will do an internal ultrasound with a really fancy ultrasound probe that can actually evaluate how blood is flowing to the ovaries, uterus, etc. I know they can do internal ultrasounds while bleeding, but not sure if it will affect their evaluation of the blood flow? who knows. My acupuncturist isn't sure what the herbs will do for me as she says everyone is different. So it's hard to predict. I guess if AF is in town and I need to reschedule, I will. It will just push us back until Sept/Oct or so? If it looks like she may be here I'll call and try to talk to a nurse to ask about the bcp. I'm guessing they may be more helpful than the scheduler.

How's your book Christi? Any good advice/information to share yet?

Then stick with the good RI. I'm sure she'll be able to offer some help

As for me and the books, I haven't read as much as I thought, but I'm about 1/3 done on 'Inconceivable'. I have to admit, I'm not as impressed as I thought I would be. The whole book so far has been her going from specialist to specialist (mainly western medicine doctors, but some eastern too) to no avail, and I'm just getting to the point where she just changed her diet and went completely vegan and gluten free. Which I'm not entirely sold on, as much as I believe in a healthy diet. I don't think dairy and meat protein are the source of all evil, but that's just me The weird part is that there is no mention of her AMH at all, which must have been extremely low at that point if her FSH shot up. And we all know the outcome - she managed to drop her FSH to normal levels and eventually got pregnant about 8 months into changing her lifestyle. Then again, her story was in the late '90s. Maybe the AMH test wasn't widely used yet back then, and at the age of 42 it is expected that the ovaries will not exactly function perfectly. The other thing to keep in mind (which I hadn't realized) is that she conceived child #1 on the first try probably around her very late 30s/very early 40s. The story starts at the point where she is 42, her daughter is something like 15 or 17 months old, and she is trying for #2 and starts having issues. So for me, if you are around 40 and manage to conceive on your first try, you are either extremely lucky or a very fertile woman. Probably the latter. So even with FSH problems and at an 'advanced maternal age' 2 years later, your condition is probably still reversible, as proved to be the case. See what I mean?
I will make sure to share any interesting points I read

 

[Christi85]

I was wondering - I know we all hate the 'just relax and it will come' attitude of many people when they hear about our TTC struggles, but in the last couple of days I've started to wonder whether it holds some truth. That's because I heard about 3(!!!) incredible stories this past weekend, and it's made me pause to think.

Here's the story: we met with a cousin who is now 37 and had her first child a few months ago. I briefly mentioned my struggles TTC (because she asked if we were thinking of having a baby at all, so I said we were, but had some issues that were making this difficult). She then went on to say that she didn't think SHE would ever have a baby of her own, as she had been getting periods VERY rarely for years, as in once every year or two Yet she conceived naturally at 36. I had no idea about her issues, and I have to admit, what she had is a pretty darn big issue when it comes to fertility. And yet she conceived. Hmmm...
I also knew from before that her Mom took 10 years to conceive her (hmm again - hereditary?), although at that time, they just kept trying and trying until it came. They never went to see a doctor or anything. After they had her, her little sister came rather easily two years later.

Then she proceeded to tell me about two of her friends. One didn't seemingly have anything too wrong going on with her, but since she was past her mid 30s she was starting to freak out that she had missed the boat to have kids. She kept panicking for 2 years and struggling with these thoughts, and she never fell pregnant in those 2 years. Then she went to a homeopath (hmmm again ) and they managed to calm her down and get the negativity out of her. A couple months later, she was pregnant and now has a healthy baby.
The other story is more similar to ours: another friend of my cousin's being told that she had zero or close to zero chances of having a baby on her own (not sure what her issue was). This sounds very familiar. Long story short, she didn't want to do fertility treatments (or couldn't afford it), so she kinda got into terms with the idea that she wouldn't be a Mom and moved on. Sure enough, some time later she fell pregnant on her own.

I know we are all told stories like that from time to time, but I'm starting to wonder if part of the 'relax' argument might be true. Could it be that we panic and stress so much about having children and/or having X or Y or Z problem that hurts our fertility that we convince ourselves that we can't do it on our own? And then our stress continues with our fertility treatments, next steps, financial worries, since treatment costs so much and is not guaranteed etc. etc. I know I am guilty of that to an extent. Whether it hurts my fertility or not is a different story and I can't know for sure, but if I had a crystal ball and that crystal ball told me to...relax and it would come, could I just overcome my issues by relaxing and adopting a more positive/relaxed attitude?

Don't mind my ramblings. I'm just wondering about a lot of things lately. And I may change my mind, but right now I don't feel like I want to do anything treatment-wise. Ugh!

 

[Pirate]

My grandma and grandpa tried (I assume-neither are around to provide the answer, but they were married in 1940 and my dad wasn't born until 1953) for years and didn't have and luck and then got pregnant when my grandma was 38 and had him at 39.

I always said that I don't want to get pregnant any older than 35 and hubs has said that he doesn't want to have a baby older than 40. I'll be 34 next month and he turned 37 today, so at most we will be NTNP (no sense in actually trying given my asshat ovaries) for two more years. Then, I don't know what. Hubs will probably get a vasectomy.

 

[Christi85]

My grandma and grandpa tried (I assume-neither are around to provide the answer, but they were married in 1940 and my dad wasn't born until 1953) for years and didn't have and luck and then got pregnant when my grandma was 38 and had him at 39.

I always said that I don't want to get pregnant any older than 35 and hubs has said that he doesn't want to have a baby older than 40. I'll be 34 next month and he turned 37 today, so at most we will be NTNP (no sense in actually trying given my asshat ovaries) for two more years. Then, I don't know what. Hubs will probably get a vasectomy.

See, people of that generation didn't use to talk about those kinds of things and would usually suffer in silence. But that goes to show you that infertility has always been there for some people (same with my aunt that I mentioned, and other couples I know of who eventually had kids, but had to try for years). It does feel it's more prevalent now than it used to be, but it could simply be that people nowadays are more open about it.

I know how you feel about life plans, Pirate. For years I used to say that I wanted to have at least one child by the age of 30, and we started trying 2 months before I turned 28 - so at that time, it felt completely feasible. Well, that hasn't happened so far, and unless I got pregnant this month or next month (quite unlikely with my scheduled surgery), I would already be 30 by the time I had the baby, best case scenario (assuming I did conceive within the next year). However, you know what I'm saying now? Life plans can change, and that is fine. Even if I have a baby in my 30s - even my mid or late 30s, so freaking what? Would that make me less happy because my original life plan didn't materialize? Of course not! If anything, I will be even happier when it comes, because with all the infertility stuff I'm going through, I'll be able to appreciate it better. It is up to each one of us to decide whether they want to stick to the original plan of course, and if that's what you think is best for you, by all means. But what I'm trying to say is, if your original plan doesn't work out, go with Plan B, and don't rule out the possibility of a later pregnancy either. I hope this doesn't offend you - it's not my intention

 

[Pirate]

No offense taken! Hubs and I are pretty logical and rational. 40 for him is a line in the sand of sorts, and I'm completely supportive of that. I don't want to be an older mother either.