Support Group failed IVF/ICSI IUI or any failed assisted conceptions 2014

[Lou32]

Hi everyone. I'm finally back home and it's nice to type on a keyboard rather than the phone! It was a difficult few days away with the MIL, so it's nice to be back home (and have some peace and quiet!) I know one of you mentioned above that Christmas is all about socialising and seeing friends and family, so it is hard at this time when all you want to do is lock yourself away and basically feel sorry for yourself. I know I'm doing that.
Just a couple of quick questions for you ladies....After your failed IVFs, did it take a while for your cycles to get back to normal? It's just I'm on day 12 and I'm having no signs of ovulation. I usually ovulate around CD 12/13 and start with EWCM around CD8, but nothing at all, which is freaking me out a bit. I rang my fertility nurse this morning and she didn't know what I was worried about, saying AF was not due yet anyway. I tried to explain that it wasn't my AF that was late, but that I wasn't showing signs of ovulating and she just dismissed it and said I might not. I ALWAYS get EWCM and ov pains, so it's freaking me out a bit that my body's changed.
Also - I agree it's always worth trying the natural way. But those of you who have MF, did you get your tubes checked or did you go straight to IVF when they found you had MF? Our doc sent us straight to IVF as he said it bypassed any tubal probs, but as it might take us a while to save for our next roud we may as well try the natural way too, but I have no idea if my tubes are OK. This is something I'm going to bring up at our review appt, but I just know he's going to refuse to refer me (I've had numerous arguments with him in my head already about it!) Just wondered if any of your docs had given any good reasons why this needs to be done so I can throw them at him! It's kinda frustrating not knowing the whole picture, but you know what the NHS is like!

Hope you all have a good New Year's Eve and I hope more than anything that all our dreams come true in 2011!!! It's definitely OUR turn!
x

 

[wishful think]

Also - I agree it's always worth trying the natural way. But those of you who have MF, did you get your tubes checked or did you go straight to IVF when they found you had MF? Our doc sent us straight to IVF as he said it bypassed any tubal probs, but as it might take us a while to save for our next roud we may as well try the natural way too, but I have no idea if my tubes are OK. This is something I'm going to bring up at our review appt, but I just know he's going to refuse to refer me (I've had numerous arguments with him in my head already about it!) Just wondered if any of your docs had given any good reasons why this needs to be done so I can throw them at him! It's kinda frustrating not knowing the whole picture, but you know what the NHS is like!


x

Hi Lou32, well I got referred to a gyno because I was having inbetween bleeds and painful periods after getting the coil removed. I had all the routine tests carried out but everything was looking fine. After 9 months trying our doctor sent my dh for an SA. It came back really poor. So I brought my dh's results to my gyno and he said it was obvious that the reason we weren't getting pregnant was because of my husband. I was put on the back burner and it all became about my dh. It was like my issues didnt matter because they had found a problem. I was put on clomid for 3 months. During this time my inbetween bleeds and af got worse. I just didnt believe that our problem was just down to my husband. So I had to fight my corner and push for further testing to be done with me!!! So all guns blazing and questions ready I went back to my gyno to fight my case and he agreed to do a lap and dye test. He said he really didnt expect to find anything wrong with me and low and behold quess what... both tubes blocked!!!! I had a miscarriage in July '09 so this happened since then. Maybe if they had of listened to me my situation might be different now.

Knowing exactly what you're dealing with is alot easier. Even though I was devastated that my tubes were blocked because it takes away our chance of it happening naturally, I feel better knowing that ivf is the only way for us now. It has taken away the monthly counting your cycle - the hopes and wishes being dashed - which is just awful every month. Don't know if any of this is making sense or if i just started rambling!!!

There is one thing that i know can hinder your chances of the ivf working and the embryo implanting and that is if you have 'Hydrosalpinx' in your tubes. And i think the laparoscopy is one of the ways they can detect this!!! So not having the full picture can sometimes be a bad thing!!! Hope something I said will be of use to u xxxxxxxxxx

 

[wishful think]

'It's ok to feel down, it doesn't mean you're weak, it means you've been strong for way too long! But when you feel like giving up, remember why you held on for so long!'

Love this quote Lolly xxxxxxx makes me feel like crying, it's soooooooo true!!!!

 

[Lou32]

Thanks wisful think. I had heard about tubes being filled with liquid affecting implantation and I told the doc that before we started ivf, but they dismissed it.
Did you have to fight for the test or did they just agree when you asked? I really insisted before the IVF but they just said no. I guess we could pay for the test, but I don't see why we should when most people get it done on the NHS.
I agree that it's important to have the full picture and I think I'm going to have to go in all guns blazing too. I'm also going to ask about tests for DH's problem too. It might all be in vain, but that's something else he just dismissed and said it's usually unexplained so they were going to make no attempt to find an explanation. It was just a case of finding out not many are swimming so icsi is the only option.
I just think it's only fair they give us some answers while we save for another go...
I rang earlier to ask a few questions but they said we had to wait until our consultation and, because of Xmas of course, they haven't got round to sending out appointments yet.
Aaaargh, just hate the waiting!

 

[Helen76]

Hey everyone, wishing everyone a very happy 2011. Here's hoping this thread will be redundant for us all soon!

Lou - I think its quite common for your cycle not to be normal after IVF. I seem to remember Inky saying her first cycle afterwards was around 45 days. I'm currently CD22 and no sign of ovulation although I do tend to ovulate around day 21 so this is only a bit late for me.

I also had the same issue that once they had identified a MF problem they didn't seem too concerned about further tests for me. They said I was low risk for tubal issues although my latest IVF revealed that there is an issue with my left tube. When I go back in Jan I'm going to ask for every test going because thankfully DH's sperm now seems normal

H xx

 

[wishful think]

Thanks wisful think. I had heard about tubes being filled with liquid affecting implantation and I told the doc that before we started ivf, but they dismissed it.
Did you have to fight for the test or did they just agree when you asked? I really insisted before the IVF but they just said no. I guess we could pay for the test, but I don't see why we should when most people get it done on the NHS.
QUOTE]

Hi Lou, I'm from Ireland so I don't know how the NHS works but over here I went on the public list to see a gyno. I was told that tests could run into thousands so I didn't want to use our bit of savings when I could get it done 'free' going public!!! My first appointment with the gyno was in Nov '09. He sent me for blood tests and an internal scan. The next appointment was Feb 2010 (as far as I can remember) and at that stage I had my dh's SA result with me. Over here u rarely get to see the head consultant, you see one of their team. Anyhow the female doctor I was with on the 2nd visit had agreed it would be a good idea for me to have a lap and dye so she filled out the form for it but wanted to run it by the head fella. Off she went and when she came back she actually ripped up the lap and dye letter in front of me and said the head consultant said it was obviously my husband that had the problem and he wanted me to be put on 3 months of clomid. I was so raging but being the way I am, I said ok I will try that but what about my crazy periods!!! Her response was "What we want to do is get u pregnant". Roll on 3 months (May 2010) and 3 crazy cycles later and I was back in with them. This time I had requested to see the head consultant. I couldnt take being sent from one doctor to another and re-telling my story each time. This time I brought my dh too. I went in and said that i understood that my dh's SA was an issue but that didnt explain my problems. I said I wanted to have a laparoscopy and he agreed it was time for one. I would say in my head I went in all fired up and guns to the ready but I spoke respectfully but strong to him. I wanted him to see it from my side but I was aware that if i pissed him off he was the one who was going to have the final decision (not me). So it worked out that we both were on the same page that day. I had said to dh that I wasn't going to leave his office until he agreed to the lap and dye. So in September 2010 I had the lap and dye, 10 months after my first gyno appointment.

If u have issues with your af, u could go at it from that angle. Or perhaps the hydrosalpinx angle!! Think they are not as willing to carry out this test so easily because it is invasive and u are put under for it!!! I hope u get the answers u need. It's a really good idea to write down every question u have for your next appointment. I always went in with my notepad. Best of luck xxx

 

[Lou32]

Thanks wishful think, yes I have a list of questions for the gyno (most of them asking for more tests!) I think there's a couple of other tests which check tubes which can be done a lot easier (like the HyCosy which is an ultrasound), so I'm going to ask for one of them. I figure that if I say we want to try the natural way for a while then I don't know how he can say no. The NHS aren't going to pay for another icsi, so the least they can do is check we're ok to try the natural way for a while. The last test showed he had 4% fast swimmers, and his count is good so there's a slim chance, even if it is equivalent of winning the lottery!
I don't have any issues with my AF, just a couple of minor issues with low progesterone and one multi-cystic ovary, both of which the docs have dismissed and said they won't affect us getting pregnant. They said it's rare to have tubal problems if you've not had previous infections, but this is obviously not the case.

Helen - wow 45 days is a long cycle, of it would be for me anyway. Mine are usually between 25 and 28, which is why it's unusual for me to not ovulate by now. It's just plain weird not knowing where your body is. You get so used to living your life by cycles that it's weird.
What further tests are you going to ask for Helen? Also, what MF issues did you have and how did you get it sorted? Our gyno told us that most MF problems are unexplained so there was no point looking into it. I have DH on a cocktail of vitamins, off caffeine, milk and drinking loads of water! Don't know if it's helping yet though.

 

[wishful think]

They said it's rare to have tubal problems if you've not had previous infections, but this is obviously not the case.

That was defo not the case with me. I have a 12 year old daughter from my previous relationship. Then my miscarriage in July '09. So my tubes were in working order back then. No infections throughout the years. They have no explanations for me as to why my tubes blocked, just that sometimes it can happen

 

[Helen76]

Helen - wow 45 days is a long cycle, of it would be for me anyway. Mine are usually between 25 and 28, which is why it's unusual for me to not ovulate by now. It's just plain weird not knowing where your body is. You get so used to living your life by cycles that it's weird.
What further tests are you going to ask for Helen? Also, what MF issues did you have and how did you get it sorted? Our gyno told us that most MF problems are unexplained so there was no point looking into it. I have DH on a cocktail of vitamins, off caffeine, milk and drinking loads of water! Don't know if it's helping yet though.

Hi, I'm going to ask for lap & dye, tests for endo and a day21 blood test which I've never had. When DH first went for SA his results weren't great (1.5m then 11m and then 18m with abnormal forms etc). When we got referred to the clinic we're using now they did tests again and it came back 73m and all fine! Both times we've had treatment we've been able to do IVF rather than ICSI (29m the first time and 55m the second). I eventually managed to get him to take Zinc and VitC and he started running again, don't know if that made the difference?

Can I have a little rant ladies?? Just found out a friend of a friend who is the same age as me (34) had started trying for a baby and what do you know? Lucky straightaway!! It's so not fair what some of us have to go through. I've now done 2 IVF and so they've managed to get the eggs to fertilise with the sperm have placed two embryos both times in my womb and I'm still not pregnant!

I'm trying to be really positive and just think it's a matter of time but finding it really hard to do that at the moment. I'm just so sick of it all

H xx

PS and while I'm having a rant, I'm as jealous as hell of all the first time IVF successes. I know that makes me a bad person but I can't help it.

 

[Lou32]

Helen, that's an incredible improvement. My DH has problem with motility rather than numbers and we just can't seem to figure out how to improve that - not when it's so low. It would be great if we didn't need the icsi, what with the extra £1k charge for it!

Re the tests - I always thought they'd know if you had endo as it would have been picked up in the scans, but is this not the case? I'm going to ask for tubes checking too, but I have a feeling the gyno will say no.

I totally know how you feel with women getting pregnant so easily! I know we probably all go through similar emotions when people get pregnant, but it feels like it gets harder every time someone tells me they're pregnant. For the past 3 years I've literally known at least 3 people pregnant at any one time. At the moment it's two of my oldest friends, my little sister (which seriously hurt), as well three other friends who live elsewhere. I rang one of my closest friends the night before EC to tell her I had to cancel plans and the reason why and she decided to tell me she had just found out she was pregnant and that they'd planned it exactly to the month so there was exactly three years between their kids. I feel bad for feeling like this, but I really really hate her for it. I couldn't admit it for a while, but my mum was furious when I told her what she'd said and said she could have waited to tell me, as she'd only just done the test. I kinda agree and I really didn't need to know how easy it was for her to get pregnant!

My cousin also went through ivf (she was 38 so a bit older than me at 32) and hers worked first time, even though she only had 2 embryos in total. Bfore my failed ivf it felt like I could really confide in her and we had something in common, but now it feels like she's joined the ranks of the smug women who get pregnant so easily.
When I think about it too much I can't get my head round how unfair it is and I honestly can't believe this is happening to me. But then that's why it's best not to think about it too much and try and concentrate on making it happen.
Hang in there and look forward to your next go. We'll soon forget all of this when we're preggers x

 

[Helen76]

Thanks Lou, I know we're lucky in a lot of respects that DH's sperm is okay (for now at least it seems). I have no idea about the endo or what tests they'll do but I'm just grappling at straws trying to find a reason why its not happening for us.

Before we knew DH's sperm was okay I bought a book called Male Infertility Fighting Back' through the Foresight website. I never got round to reading it but they claim 81% of men who followed their programme went on to conceive. I'd be more than happy to post my copy to you but appreciate you might not want to give your details out to someone you don't know. If you want me to send the book then PM me. Here's the link anyway:

https://www.foresight-preconception.org.uk/Product-Info.aspx?productID=33

That was so insensitive of your friend, some people do astound me. It must be hard with your sister as well, I really feel for you. My sister has 2 kids but both were conceived before I even met my hubby so it wasn't an issue for me then

Like you say once we're pregnant ourselves everything will be fine and we will get there!

H xx

 

[Lou32]

That's so freaky, cos I already ordered that book from Amazon before Xmas. I stumbled upon it on a different website. I had a bit of a splurge and ordered loads of vitamns and a couple of books. My Zita West book arrived a few days ago but still waiting for that.
Thanks for your offer though.

 

[fluffystar]

Hi Ladies, Mind if I ask a quick question?

How long did you wait, or are you going to wait, to start another treatment cycle after one has failed? I dont have my follow up appointment until 24th Jan and have no idea yet what the plan will be. Do they recommend waiting a certain amount of time or did you decide to wait purely for your own reasons?

I have no idea what the clinic will say but personally feel like I need a bit of a break. It was only my first IVF cycle but already I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders now we have tried IVF at least once. Im really proud of my body for seemingly bouncing back and having fertile signs after only two weeks but I feel liberated by not being a slave to the whole TTC thing and not feeling that we have to perform at this time and not feeling under pressure to ovulate (which didnt always happen when it should). I know its still quite early after the BFN but I feel I need at least 4-6 months for a rest!

Is that normal or am I wasting time? I am also conscious of all the government cuts and though I am lucky my pct currently fund 3 cycles, I am not sure how long that will last!

 

[MySillyGirls]

Hi fluffystar! Mine failed in October and I am starting my new cycle now. However, my doc was willing to let me start a new one right away (November) but timing didn't quite work for us

 

[Lolly1985]

Hi Everyone!

Helen I'm sorry you are having a hard time at the moment. I know exactly how everyone feels. I am always over analysing people, trying to guess if they are pregnant or not, willing them not to be. Then wondering when they will be pregnant, how would I cope if they got pregnant etc etc. I can quite easily stew on these thoughts for hours until I feel sick. It sickens me sometimes to watch pregnant young girls smoking, and I feel jealous of mums walking down the street with a brood of kiddies in tow. It should be me!!! I know my DP thinks i'm a bit mental, but this process makes you! Plus after speaking with my councillor and being reassured its totally normal I have found some peace with myself. Before I was consumed with guilt and disgust at actually resenting my own friends/family. So rant away because I think I may well have just joined you!!!

Fluffy, my clinic made me wait 3 months after a fresh cycle to start any kind of treatment again. They said that this gave enough time to get all the drugs out of the body, and to be honest I felt I needed that time to recover emotionally as well as physically. I was due to start my second ICSI Jan, but now March due to a rather persistant cyst, damn it!! Ready to try again now, the waiting kills me.

Hi Lou. I hope you can get some answers and that they will run some further tests. I've only ever come from the other angle, that being all the probs were with me and then they ran every test under the sun. Have been poked and prodded many a time over the years!! It was only later we found out that DPs count was low. As we were that far down the line they simply changed our IVF to ICSI and said it wasn't a problem. Although the last two tests have been normal so maybe it was just a blip. Sure he would like to think so. I really wish you luck at getting some more answers.

Good luck with your cycle MySillyGirls, thinking of you and hoping you are feeling well!

Happy New Year to everyone else, Inky, Wishful, Miss Monty, Silarose, Angiemon and Tori!

I am currently feeling ok. Its up and down, more down after the hols and everyone went home. Found that while I was busy I didn't have so much time to think. But since the new year have felt happier knowing that all the horrible bits happened last year, it sounds much better in my head! have my second zolodex injection a week tomorrow, then only 1 more before treatment. Getting there. DP says it'll be our year but I must stay positive so i'm trying really hard!

Anyways best be off, have written an essay! Do enough of that for uni!!! Take care ladies,

All my love, Lolly xxxxxxxxxx

 

[Lou32]

Fluffystar - My clinic said they were obliged to to wait until I'd had three AFs before starting again. I want to wait at least three months anyway because I'm stepping up a gear with the vits and detox etc and it won't all take effect until then. Just when DH thought I couldn't get any more obsessed, I've now got him on even more vits, all organic food etc!

 

[silarose28]

Hi Ladies, Mind if I ask a quick question?

How long did you wait, or are you going to wait, to start another treatment cycle after one has failed? I dont have my follow up appointment until 24th Jan and have no idea yet what the plan will be. Do they recommend waiting a certain amount of time or did you decide to wait purely for your own reasons?

I have no idea what the clinic will say but personally feel like I need a bit of a break. It was only my first IVF cycle but already I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders now we have tried IVF at least once. Im really proud of my body for seemingly bouncing back and having fertile signs after only two weeks but I feel liberated by not being a slave to the whole TTC thing and not feeling that we have to perform at this time and not feeling under pressure to ovulate (which didnt always happen when it should). I know its still quite early after the BFN but I feel I need at least 4-6 months for a rest!

Is that normal or am I wasting time? I am also conscious of all the government cuts and though I am lucky my pct currently fund 3 cycles, I am not sure how long that will last!

Hi Fluffystar

Are you in herts? I am at herts and essex and the nhs make you wait 6 months in between cycles - I know as my first was cancelled and then I had to wait 6 months for the next! (I paid private as couldn't wait so long!)

Hi everyone else - I am off out shopping to cheer myslef up and will catch up with you all this evening. xxxxx

 

[fluffystar]

Hi Fluffystar

Are you in herts? I am at herts and essex and the nhs make you wait 6 months in between cycles - I know as my first was cancelled and then I had to wait 6 months for the next! (I paid private as couldn't wait so long!)

I thought that the nurse on the phone said something about 6 months but I wasnt quite with it when I rang and so was not sure if I heard it right. 6 months does seemlike an awful long time though if you felt ready, do you know what their reasons are? I dont mind so much as I was already thinking of waiting at least 6 months to give myself a break but for those who are ready to go again that 6 months must be a killer!

 

[fluffystar]

I just found this website with the fertility policy for the east of england which thought may be useful

 

[Helen76]

Thanks Lolly, it really helps to know what I'm feeling is 'normal'. I feel so sorry for all those women years ago who didn't have IVF as an option and weren't able to get in touch with others like we do. Thank goodness for the modern age!!

Fluffy - 6 months would have killed me last time. I started attempt 2 about 7 weeks after the first. In hindsight it probably was too soon emotionally but why some clinics take it upon themselves to create unnecessary rules I'll never know!

H xx