Support thread for ladies who have had 3+ failed IVF cycles

[Unlucky41]

dovkav123 really hope this cycle works for you. Hope you chose the right option to improve your implantation.
Definitely let us know how your transfer go.

What are your family so far away ? I really hope that you will join you siblings and have your precious baby real soon

 

[underthestars]

Can I join you too? Husband has frozen sperm due to bone marrow transplant. Failed fresh ICSI cycle June 2010, failed frozen FET November 2010. Late abandoned fresh February 2011 (wrongly abandoned we were later told). Failed fresh ICSI July 2011. Massive problems with IVF clinic, with their quality of care (sorry is pretty meaningless when it's about abandoned cycles) and staff (some were so unbelievably rude and unprofessional) leading to complaints through HEFA and deep depression for me.

Decided we couldn't go through any of that again we consented to destroy our two frozen embies and try and draw a line under the whole thing. Moved job, house, got a dog...but can't shift the regret about it all.

I'm 31 this month. I know there is still a small window if time. We have spent near 30k on house renovations in the last 2 years (that's 4 ICSI cycles...ouch) and whilst my husband looks for a new car I'm sat here wondering whether I dare mention saving and giving it all one more go. Am I mad?

 

[Unlucky41]

underthestars - welcome to this thread!

for all you have gone through and to encounter such bad unprofessional people in this industry is really disappointing. I think anyone in this industry should have compassionate and a caring nature.

Have you managed to change clinics? When are you cycling again ?
You are not mad we tried 5 times with two times having no transfer before we got our BFP.

dovkav123 how was the transfer?

AF, bub, Mrse75 -how are you all doing?

 

[bubumaci]

Hi Under
I don't think you're mad - I can totally understand the regret you are feeling, having got rid of your frozen embies! And you are not mad, wanting to try again / keep trying. You are still young, and it is most natural, that you still have the desire to become a Mother (BTW, I think you have been through so much already, with your DH's cancer!). You definitely need to talk with DH about it - of course it is a financial issue too (we are entirely out of pocket for the entire process), but yes, you should mention how you feel!

Dovkav - how did ER on Friday go? Did you have transfer today? How are you?

Me ... knackered - the year end close has had me working 12-13 hours every day and I have worked the weekends too... We have our next appointment on Wednesday with our doctor ... guess we'll have to see what the plan is / what he suggests. Probably a new cycle ... maybe next cycle (this one is majorly out of sync after the December chemical - day 21 and still haven't ovulated ... feel like I might today or tomorrow) ... but I am running out of energy and my hope has more or less hit rock bottom on this one. Just need to get the bad 2013 out of my system ... I can't give up yet ...

 

[Sandy83]

Welcome Underthestars, defintely think you need to tell DH how you are feeling

Bubumaci, Sorry to hear work is so busy at the moment, Fx'd for your appt on Wednesday

Dovkav, How you doing, when is OTD?

Unlucky, Great story about your friend, gives me hope

Just wanted to do a quick update as feeling really down at the moment. Started injections on saturday but really not sure if it was the best thing to do as on Friday DH got called in to see his consultant at the hospital as he has been in really bad pain with his back and the scans have showed that they think the Lymphoma has return and is showing around his spine. He is having a biopsy this week to confirm what the scans have shown but this will mean more chemotherapy and radiotherapy if the results are positive Absolutely gutted he was doing so well nearly 3 years clear Life is just so unfair!!!!

Do you Ladies think I'm doing the right thing by continuing with the cycle?????? Sorry for the rant

Hope the rest of you ladies are doing well xx

 

[bubumaci]

Oh Sandy, I am so sorry to hear about DH! My fingers are tightly crossed that the biopsy will prove them wrong
I have absolutely no idea ... if it is something you can cope with (the both of you) in parallel to treatment that DH might have to undergo... I think you should discuss with the clinic. You have gone through the treatment with DH before, you know what it entails...
I think it is a very difficult decision and I honestly don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes. On the one hand, I would be desperate to try again - on the other, I would want to be there for my DH 150% (which I don't think I could do, if I were trying to build up all the positive energy for the Mama karma)... I think I would talk to the clinic and see what the think / recommend / suggest ... and basically, how you and DH feel about the whole thing.

I am so sorry that you are being faced with this!!!

 

[Sandy83]

Thanks Bubumaci Well I know I've started the buserelin so at least i can still go ahead with it but if in 3 weeks when I'm due to start stims and have more information about dH's condition I know i can stop if i think it's too much xx

 

[africaqueen]

Hi ladies, sorry been MIA. I have been unable to log into my account until today for some strange reason?! anyways im back now.

Stars- Welcome and good luck! x

Dov- How did it go? x

Sandy- I am so sorry to hear the news about your dh! life is sooo unfair! have we not suffered enough?! thoughts an prayers x

MrsE- I know what you mean. 2 of my friends are actually pregnant with third babies and all from when me an dh started ttc just one... not fair but thats life iv come to realise x

Hi to Jo, Andrea, Clare and all the gang x

AFM- Nothing much to report. Got the period from HELL yesterday so missed my shift in work last night as couldnt stand for the pain and also missed todays shift so down another £100 come pay day. One step forward, 2 steps back! tbh at this rate we are unable to save barely more than £50 a mth which is a p**s in a huge ocean compared to the £4000 we need to save for another cycle but not much we can do except hope dh manages to get a better job(he is applying for 50 jobs per week) or that we have some luck for once and win some money. That aside we wont afford another cycle this year, it will be next year an the thought of that depresses me, especially knowing time is not on our side with my DOR why is life sooo bloody hard?! anyway gotta stay hopeful and i keep entering tons of comps too in the hope il win money or something i can sell xxx

 

[MrsE75]

Sandy - I'm really sorry to hear about your DHs further fight as if you don't have enough to endure! Honestly they say that god only gives you what we can handle sometimes I just wish he would bugger off and leave some people alone. Heart goes out to you both xxx

AQ - sounds like you are having a bit of a down time which is unlike you so I know you will bounce back. AF time is always the hardest for us ladies I find myself having a good cry every month not that my OH knows cos I just feel it's another month where my dreams haven't been met. So keep your pecker up when your baba comes it will be worth it xxx

Hi to the rest of the gang. Sorry this is a short one cos I'm in work!!

Afm - well biten the bullet and got an appt at this clinic in London next Monday - I'm terrified at the thought of another cycle. I think the longer I wait the more I build it up to be worse than reality in my mind if that makes one iota of sense!?! We don't plan to do anything until hopefully March/April depends when we pay off the credit cards from the last fresh and frozen cycle! The next will be going back on CC cos the time it will take to save. I suspect my next cycle will involve chromosome testing and immune treatment cos basically that's the last thing to try done everything else! So prob going to be around £10k I think - I know say it fast! Let you know what they say xx

 

[dovkav123]

My 6th natural cycle IVF failed. An egg didn't fertilise correctly....
We are looking for the best clinic in Europe or US and try stimulated cycle.
I need it really to work, so I need to find clinic who tests per-implantation embryo genetic.

 

[bubumaci]

Dovkav - where in Germany are you?
Our clinic does do PID (pre-impantation diagnostics). It is very expensive and can only be done on blastocysts.
The clinic apparently has the best reputation in Germany, if not in Europe (according to the research done by a friend of mine).
Have you and DH had chromosome karyotype testing done?
If I think back to how our eggs have fertilised, I think it is quite a risk to try with only one egg!
June 2012 - 14 eggs retrieved, 12 mature, 11 fertilised
September 2012 - 11 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 7 fertilised
February 2013 - 23 eggs retrieved, 18 mature, 15 fertilised
July 2013 - 12 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 4 fertilised
December 2013 - 13 eggs retrieved, 11 mature, 9 fertilised

I would say, that we have a pretty good fertilisation rate, yet if you think about it, of the 73 eggs retrieved, 61 were mature (so they could try fertilisation) and of those, 46 fertilised ... 75%. In my eyes that is pretty high and still think of how many eggs could not be fertilised.

So anyway, if you are interested, have a look at BBN https://www.ivf-bbn.de - perhaps that is an option. If you do choose to try it, I would recommend our doctor (who we changed to after the first 5 transfers with a different doctor). I am very happy with his approach and I trust him.

 

[dovkav123]

Dovkav - where in Germany are you?
Our clinic does do PID (pre-impantation diagnostics). It is very expensive and can only be done on blastocysts.
The clinic apparently has the best reputation in Germany, if not in Europe (according to the research done by a friend of mine).
Have you and DH had chromosome karyotype testing done?
If I think back to how our eggs have fertilised, I think it is quite a risk to try with only one egg!
June 2012 - 14 eggs retrieved, 12 mature, 11 fertilised
September 2012 - 11 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 7 fertilised
February 2013 - 23 eggs retrieved, 18 mature, 15 fertilised
July 2013 - 12 eggs retrieved, 10 mature, 4 fertilised
December 2013 - 13 eggs retrieved, 11 mature, 9 fertilised

I would say, that we have a pretty good fertilisation rate, yet if you think about it, of the 73 eggs retrieved, 61 were mature (so they could try fertilisation) and of those, 46 fertilised ... 75%. In my eyes that is pretty high and still think of how many eggs could not be fertilised.

So anyway, if you are interested, have a look at BBN https://www.ivf-bbn.de - perhaps that is an option. If you do choose to try it, I would recommend our doctor (who we changed to after the first 5 transfers with a different doctor). I am very happy with his approach and I trust him.

I am so sorry you went through so many IVFs.
Thank you for info and recommendation.
We havn't done chromosome karyotype. I don't know if it's worthy. We don't have genetic diseases in the family, unless enviromental factors, aging could cause some damage. Here the test is much cheaper than in USA, we'll see.

My clinic can never tell if my egg is the best. Only during ICSI RE can tell about it cos RE removes covering from the egg.
In Germany there are strict laws about the German Embryo Protection Act of 1990 forbids the selection of embryos. This means that all human eggs being produced in the course of one IVF-cycle may only be fertilized for a later transfer back to the mother's uterus. Therefore the doctors have to select the 'best' eggs already on the day of fertilization when the male and female nuclei have not melted to one, yet. Should there be more than 3 eggs, they can be frozen (cryopreservation) and used for another, later attempt. However it's very hard to decide on the eggs with the best chances at such an early state. In Austria or the Chech Republic (for example) the legal situation is much better. There all eggs can be fertilized and cultivated until blastocyst stadium (5th day after fertilization). Only then the decision for the 'best' embryo has to be made. Should there be more than three, the others still can be cryopreserved.
I don't like this law. It doesn't give me high success chances.

 

[africaqueen]

MrsE- Yes i am feeling very low this week but im sure the feeling won't last. Il pull myself together. Just tough times x

Dov- I am so sorry your cycle didnt work. We are going to try another cycle when we get the cash together and we will be opting for half the amount of drugs compared to last time in the hope we get 1 or 2 good eggs compared to 7 poor ones, but personally i wouldnt op for a natural cycle as chances are so slim sadly x

Andrea- How are u doing? x

xxx

 

[bubumaci]

Dovkav - being in Germany myself, I am familiar with this Law. It is also the Law, that prevents us from being able to get a donor egg, even though donor sperm is legal!

Our clinic does both. We have cryopreservation on Day 1 after fertilisation - and they also do it with blastocysts (see my February cycle last year - we had intended to do ONLY fresh transfer on day 5, but I was at risk for OHSS, so they froze 10 on day one and took five to day 5, since a few were still going, they were taken to day 6, where I had two blasts and they were frozen. One of them is still frozen).

Seeing as you are in Germany, perhaps my clinic would be for you?? At my clinic, primarily day 5 transfers are done (in a few rare cases, they do day 3 transfers).

Chromosome karyotyping definitely is very important! It is not necessarily related to genetic diseases, since having a chromosome or two that are not quite right (depending on which chromosomes they are) may not have an effect on the carrier - but definitely might effect an embryo when coming together with the chromosomes of the partner to create a new being. See my "story" below, from our chat with the doctor yesterday. If you or your husband have irregular karyotyping, it might be the reason, why getting a health embryo is so difficult! But even if not, couples with clear karyotyping might also be producing embryos with genetic defects, which is why they don't develop. I would recommend having it done, because it might either a) explain something or b) indicate that the risk is lower...


AFM (thanks for asking Sarah!!!)
So the doctor really took his time with us yesterday. In his opinion, this really just is a case of embryos that are chromosomally abnormal and that they for this reason just don't carry on developing / it doesn't lead to a viable pregnancy. He says it is impossible to know whether this is due to the really poor quality of sperm - or if perhaps my eggs contribute to it.
Both of us are chromosomally normal - however that doesn't mean that our "produce" has to be. It is a question of chance really and we have so far just been unbelievably unlucky. He does believe it will work, that we are on a good track, since for our last two tries, our embryo development has been so much better than for all the other 6, so we are doing something right.
He showed us a study of a lady, quite a bit younger than me, who had had 2 miscarriages, followed by a baby, followed by 4 miscarriages. She was tested to see how her chromosomes are and it turned out that two (#4 and #14) were abnormal. For her, that made no difference, but it clearly seemed to have an effect when she wanted to have children. So they stimmed her, managed to get 5 blastocysts, which they then did PID on. Turned out, that for four of the embryos, there were some chromosomal abnormalities (one had chromosome #9, another had #2, #4, #14, a third had all sorts, only including #14 and a fourth was all over the place) - the 5th was healthy and that turned into her baby - it worked. But the analysis of their "produce" showed, that there wasn't a link between her abnormal chromosomes, since the result of their chromosomes was totally different.

Now we had already considered doing PID for us - however a) they can only be done on blastocysts and our history of blastocysts hasn't been that great and b) our clinic can't get the genetic analysis done in 24 hours which means that it can't be a fresh transfer ... and based on all our tries, it is very clear that our frozen embryo development has been significantly worse than fresh development - and we want to avoid freezing and thawing if we can. Our doctor also said that PID is horrendously expensive, so at this point he wouldn't recommend it. Especially, if he looks that the first few tries that we had, what was transferred really didn't have that good a chance and it is only our last couple of tries that we should "count" - which would mean, that I am still well within the statistics of how many blastocysts and average woman my age needs to get pregnant.
Finally, he recommended that DH go see a different urologist to see whether he recommends doing a PESE / mTESE - just in case the developmental issues are linked to how poor the sperm is. DH just rang that he has an appointment at this other urologist next week Friday.

So I have the prescriptions for the meds ... after AF comes, I will start stimming again on day three (seeing that I ovulated day before yesterday, I guess that is in roughly two weeks, give or take a day or two).

 

[MrsE75]

Dov - so sorry to hear your news and I didn't know that about German law so I know if I need DE not to go to Germany! How strange to have that law. I have thought about chromasome testing but unless you get about 8 eggs I was told it's was not worth it. When I only get 2-3 the reality is they have little to play with but as I'm going to a new clinic on Monday I will ask. Apparently according to quite a few people I know that have gone there they are expensive but monitor, scan and do blood tests during stim everyday to check your levels and they are hugely into immune issues and do mini immune tests throught to check if when you have your embryo back your body then starts to create hormones to effectively kill the embryo that's not present until you get an embryo.

Bub - good luck and I cannot imagine how much you must have spent on all your cycles let alone the emotional investment so I am inspired! Good luck with the next steps xx

AQ - aw bless I'm sorry to hear that it's so difficult this process. I've decided if I ever win the lottery or somehow end up with lots of money I'm going to create a foundation that people can apply to who don't have children in or to have Ivf. I would live to be in a position to do that. Just a small matter of the lottery win!!! Keep on fighting and done give up we will all get there I'm 100% sure we will somehow! Xx

 

[bubumaci]

Mrs E - the chromosome karyotype testing is done on blood, not on the eggs. Both you and your partner can have that done (it was done on us right at the beginning when we first went to the clinic, because they had to make sure that we really were "only" dealing with the azoospermia).
The other testing, PID (Pre-Implanation Diagnostics), can only be done on blastocysts, at least in this country, don't know about other countries. Based on our discussion yesterday with the Dr (we also looked at examples), when PID is done on younger embryos, it can be "dangerous", because there, the cell division is still taking place, but the cells haven't separated into trophectoderm (become placenta) and embryonal cells - so they can actually damage the developing embryo. If you have a nice blastocyst, then it is much easier to siphon off cells for the genetic analysis without damaging the developing embryo.

I love the idea of winning a serious sum of money and then opening a foundation to help people like us. You are right - because we don't get any financial support for this, we have already invested small fortune (several tens of thousands of Euros). I will be ordering my medis from France this time, as apparently it can be 40% cheaper than here (one Gonal-F pen costs 537 EUR ... I need at least two per cycle and I use Luveris as well, plus all the other injectibles, Orgalutran etc. etc.), so at least we will be able to save a little bit there (on our 6th stimming cycle *lol*)...

 

[Unlucky41]

Sandy so sad to hear your news. Really hope dh is ok and fights through it. I hope you find the answer to continue the cycle or not in 3 weeks time. Sending heaps of hugs and prayers your way as I couldn't imagine going through a cycle and supporting dh through the treatment. Be strong!

AQ really do hope you get lucky and win a lottery soon. How is DH going with all the jobs application? Really hope your next cycle is it and you can be saving up for you baby instead.

Dovkav sorry to hear about your failed natural cycle good to hear you are going to try a simulated cycle this time hoping it gives you more eggies.

MrE75 I love your idea about a charity for the unfertile - definitely would be a charity I would support. Hoping your appointment goes well next Monday and they give you some answers and options.

Bub good to see you back on the board it sounds like from your appointment you guys will get there is a matter of time. Really hope you get some great quality blastocyst this round

 

[dovkav123]

Please read my new thread about toxic metals

https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/p...metal-poisoning-infertility.html#post31312359

Also read this reseach about Vit D and infertility
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22275473

 

[MrsE75]

How are we all doing? It's been quiet for a few days hope everyone is surviving.

I know there is lots going on for each of us on this thread so I'm sending each of you a big hug and a bucket load of baby dust. I just know that we will all get our dreams somehow we may have to go about it another way be it donors or surrogates perhaps or more Ivf cycles but we will get there. Seriously we can't have put this much effort, tears and money to simply come away without our longed for families - it isn't an option quite frankly. So hope whoever needs to listen is listening and they send us all our dreams very, very soon!! Xx

 

[dovkav123]

Thank you MRS for sweet words. Bless you!

I know we are dealing with an age here. My hubby's sperm is super, but who know what are the chromosomes?
This month we BD every other day and hopefully this will give us the best quality sperm. Probably it'll take 3 months to see an improvement. He is sure happy about this plan!

I was in the shopping mall a couple of days ago. A little girl 1.5 was walking back and forward with her dad. My hubby noticed she liked me, smiled at me. She wanted to stay around me, but her dad was taking her away. Finally she came to me, held my hand for a second, giggled and walked away.
My hubby told me this child really liked you. I told him this was our child, she was born to a wrong parents.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those were the bittest thoughts I have ever had during this infertility journey. I hope I won't have them again.