The Really Useful TCM Thread

[TurboTurtle80]

Sizzles, , sorry you're not feeling well. It's definitely an up and down thing that changes sometimes with each hour that passes. I've come to find with everything we do, there are "good, better, or best results" when arriving at a lifestyle change. If you do everything by the book, you'll likely get best results. If you tweak it, you'll still get some level of success, but not as good as if you did everything precisely. In the end, we just need to find out what works for us based on experience. You'll find balance, so don't be so hard on yourself.

I had my acu sesh on Saturday and she was so lovely she gave me my appt for free since it was my birthday. WOW!! I gotta say everyone was very sweet to me, and still are. Kinda one of the best birthdays I've had so long as I don't consider my family being a bunch of turds. Anywhoo, she has me using a heating pad nightly and some Tiger oil (smells like Icy Hot or Bengay) on my abdomen for the cramps I've been getting. I'm hoping this will help warm my uterus and make everything work better.

Hope you all are well.

 

[CaliDreaming]

So I thought I was kind of ok with the spotting this month (despite my bad mood on Saturday!) Well it hit me more so yesterday when I had a bit of a meltdown and was a snivelling, crying and shouting mess!

Whilst I'm feeling slightly better today, I am feeling rather aggrieved at the TCM 'rules'. I'm supposed to avoid foods and drinks colder than room temperature, plus of course steering clear of sweets, chocolates and cake. All of this (particularly the temperature thing I think) is most important during the run up to, and including during my period. Well I'm sorry, but that's just when I need it most! Last night I had 2 glasses of chilled white wine and some sorbet! I just feel the need to eat chocolate and cake and all things bad for me at this time of the month. So I'm feeling rather dispondent.

Acu tomorrow, so I'll tell her how I've been feeling and see what she says/does.

So sorry you're feeling down. On days like that, I just let myself have whatever I want--rules or no rules. One or two days of being bad is not going to undo all of the work you've done. Soon you'll start to feel better again and then you'll feel more like complying with the rules.

How exciting! So do you gals get bruises with acu? I always get bruises in different places. Always have bruised easily tho.

I never bruise with it. That must suck.

Sizzles, , sorry you're not feeling well. It's definitely an up and down thing that changes sometimes with each hour that passes. I've come to find with everything we do, there are "good, better, or best results" when arriving at a lifestyle change. If you do everything by the book, you'll likely get best results. If you tweak it, you'll still get some level of success, but not as good as if you did everything precisely. In the end, we just need to find out what works for us based on experience. You'll find balance, so don't be so hard on yourself.

I had my acu sesh on Saturday and she was so lovely she gave me my appt for free since it was my birthday. WOW!! I gotta say everyone was very sweet to me, and still are. Kinda one of the best birthdays I've had so long as I don't consider my family being a bunch of turds. Anywhoo, she has me using a heating pad nightly and some Tiger oil (smells like Icy Hot or Bengay) on my abdomen for the cramps I've been getting. I'm hoping this will help warm my uterus and make everything work better.

Hope you all are well.

That was so nice of your acu! Happy belated Birthday!!!

My practitioner told me that when it doesn't hurt going in anymore that usually is a good sign and means there are no blockages along the energy paths. Sorry if that sounds a bit airy fairy but it made sense as when everything was working as it should be for me the needles didn't really hurt anymore. xoxo

Some days it hurts and some days it doesn't. I've noticed that it doesn't hurt as much in my legs as much. There are a couple of points in my feet that are still sore from time to time. I guess I am prone to getting blocked up.

 

[Sizzles]

Session 5

So today I visited my acu at exactly the same point as this time last cycle: 15dpo on fourth day of spotting. Last time my period arrived by bedtime, so we'll see if the same happens this time; I hope so as I want to move on to the next cycle.

I told my acu lady that my emotions had been a little 'off' what with the spotting starting. She listened and has treated my emotions with the needles.
The needles hurt more today than they have before - more so once they were in than the actual process of putting them in: particularly uncomfortable was one in my tum which periodically I could feel sort of pulsing pain/discomfort down inside me from my abdo towards my pubic area. I wasn't sure whether I should be feeling it or not, and probably stupidly, chose not to say anything.
She didn't use moxa today and, on reflection neither checked my tongue (first time she hasn't done that) or felt my tummy for cold. Weirdly, today and yesterday my lower tummy hasn't felt as cold as it has in the past. I'm more inclined to think this is to do with my period being imminent rather than any effects of acu, heat application and dietary changes, but we'll see. After a couple of days 'off' from the heating the uterus I'm back on board again and have just shopped for ingredients to make a 'green soup' with watercress, broccoli, leek and celery, (apparently I should eat 'winter veg' and green leafy veg) which I thought I'd bung some pulses in for a bit of protein. I'm building myself a little selection of fertility-friendly soups now, and the best thing is that they taste really good and nobody will look at me funny when I start taking them to work for lunch.

Come on af! Come on baby!

 

[CaliDreaming]

Sizzles, glad you're feeling better today. Whenever I am emotional like that in my LP, my acu says my qi is stagnated, and somehow, shortly afterward, I feel better.

My acu appointment is today, and I really need some help with my emotions. I have not been doing well these past couple of days. I have been so depressed. If it were not for dd and having to go to work, I would not be getting out of bed. The way I feel right now, I honestly just feel like giving up on TTC.

 

[Sizzles]

Sending virtual hugs your way Cali, as I know completely what you mean.
I felt like that on Sunday, but my overwhelming desire to have a baby means giving up isn't an option either! Sometimes it makes me feel so alone; relatively speaking, most people don't have to go through this - they want a baby, they have sex, they have a baby - that's how it should be! Sometimes I feel a bit like I want to give up on life. That's not to say I'm suicidal, but I do feel that my life as it currently is, isn't a life worth living for the next however many years; if we're unfortunate and find we can't have children for some reason, there will have to be serious discussions about what path we follow with our lives, because working hard and living in a family home (bought with a view to having a family) with barely any social life (our friends have had their own families and drifted on to be with other similar people) etc. is not much of a life. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

Hope you acu session goes well and that your emotions get sorted. Let us know how you get on.

 

[CaliDreaming]

Thanks so much Sizzles! It's so good knowing that someone understands how I'm feeling. I can really relate to your comment about "giving up on life". For me it's not like I want to kill myself, but I just wanting the constant yearning for a child to go away if it can't happen. Life would be so much easier if I could just be happy with one. I am so tired of trying but it's scary for me to think about what life will be like if it doesn't happen. Will dd be ok being an only or should I consider adopting again? Will she be begging me for a sibling, because I think that would totally make me meltdown. Will I be able to handle all of the birthday parties and school events I'll have to go to, and won't be able to get out of? How will I deal with all of the questions about her getting a sibling (which have already started!)?? There just seem to be no good solutions other than getting pregnant.

Before I had dd, I always thought that it would be easier to deal with infertility if I already had a child, but the feelings and decisions become more complicated. It's just as hard with the same kinds of uncertainties and insecurities, just with a different slant.

Infertility just sucks no matter what. I hate that it has to be so hard. Part of my job involves work with abused children. It's just so sad that there are people who can get pregnant so easily and can't or don't want to take care of them, but yet there are people who are ready and well equiped who have to move mountains to get children whether by birth or adoption. That hard fact of life that is so hard for me to get past. Why can't the children go to the ones who want them most?? Just so much pain all around.

Anyway, thanks for letting me rant. Hopefully my acu appt will do me some good.

 

[CaliDreaming]

Well, I had a good acu appointment today. I told her I had been feeling down. I didn't cry, but the tears were on the verge of appearing the whole time. I think she saw that.

She didn't place very many needles this time. I was surprised that the ones in my legs and feet did not hurt at all. She placed a couple on either side of my belly button. One was a little uncomfortable going in, but not painful. I really thought my qi was congested. She came in to check on me and asked if I felt anything. I told her that I really did not feel anything, but that I had on other occasions. Not sure if that was good or bad. I'm thinking probably bad! She also asked if the acne I had last time had gone away, and it has--so relieved about that.

At the massage she usually gives me at the end, I noticed that she used a different type of oil. She usually uses a peppery/minty smelling oil, but this time she used a flowery one. I know it sounds hokey, but it smelled like a much more cheerful scent. I guess it's some sort of aromatherapy.

She asked me different types of questions today. She seemed focused on my mental state when I got pregnant with dd. She asked if I was "paying attention" when I got preggo. I took that to mean was I still "trying" when I conceived dd. I told her that I was definitely still paying attention at that time, but that I had gotten more lax with my temping and stuff because I had started to lose hope.

At the end of the session, she told me that it's only been 1.5 years since I'd given birth, and that the recovery phase and building blood can take a while. We talked a bit about how my hair had broken off, and if it was recovering. That made me feel a little better about things. I've been racking my brains thinking about what could have gone wrong with me since last time, and I have no idea what it could be be.

I usually hate to hear "just relax and it will happen" which is what I think she was trying to tell me, but in my case, I think it's true. An herbalist I used to go to emailed me to check on me, and told me the same thing. My dh says it too. So with some many different types of people telling me the same thing, I guess it must be true. The problem is, I just don't know how to let go and just be. I am so afraid if I don't try, it won't happen.

I am still on my usual Jia Wei Xiao San for building blood, and some teapills to strengthen my Yang--I didn't even realize I had problems with my yang too. She wants me to update her on how I'm feeling emotionally next session.

 

[TurboTurtle80]

Cali. Sorry you're feeling bad. Ya know, I say it a million times - we hate to hear it...just relax. But if you pay close attention, I'd say about 80% or more of the ladies who do relax, get pregnant naturally. I'm 32. I quit protecting probably at 19. Only once did I conceive and Not.Even.Know I was pregnant until I was miscarrying. The more I think about it, I conceived when I least concerned myself with it and honestly didn't even want to be a mom at that point in my life bcz I was too busy having fun. I think once that yearning starts, it never goes away. On the same side of that, the aching agony of yearning is what stresses our body into fear. My acu'ist tells me all the time that's what causes stagnation, and that is what my problem is. When my 19 year old sister got pregnant, for whatever reason it helped me let go quite a bit and BOOM a period all by myself. So personally, I try to live life every day with no regrets and to be understanding that I'm not a mommy yet for a reason. It gets easier after 13 years. I'm different because I've been at this for so long so I've come to accept it. Doesn't mean I never want children of my own; it just means I am free to devote myself in another way until that time comes. Not sure where I'm going with my story, but my point is, you may doing things to your body that you're not even realizing by wanting a child so desperately. The minute you allow yourself to love yourself for who you are and be free, you'll find life is so much friendlier to you. Live carefree my friend. You owe yourself that much.

 

[CaliDreaming]

Cali. Sorry you're feeling bad. Ya know, I say it a million times - we hate to hear it...just relax. But if you pay close attention, I'd say about 80% or more of the ladies who do relax, get pregnant naturally. I'm 32. I quit protecting probably at 19. Only once did I conceive and Not.Even.Know I was pregnant until I was miscarrying. The more I think about it, I conceived when I least concerned myself with it and honestly didn't even want to be a mom at that point in my life bcz I was too busy having fun. I think once that yearning starts, it never goes away. On the same side of that, the aching agony of yearning is what stresses our body into fear. My acu'ist tells me all the time that's what causes stagnation, and that is what my problem is. When my 19 year old sister got pregnant, for whatever reason it helped me let go quite a bit and BOOM a period all by myself. So personally, I try to live life every day with no regrets and to be understanding that I'm not a mommy yet for a reason. It gets easier after 13 years. I'm different because I've been at this for so long so I've come to accept it. Doesn't mean I never want children of my own; it just means I am free to devote myself in another way until that time comes. Not sure where I'm going with my story, but my point is, you may doing things to your body that you're not even realizing by wanting a child so desperately. The minute you allow yourself to love yourself for who you are and be free, you'll find life is so much friendlier to you. Live carefree my friend. You owe yourself that much.

Thanks so much for the kind post! I've really been taking it all to heart. I have been so resistant to the "just relax" advice, but I'm starting to see the light. I'm probably the poster child for need to relax at this point. Life would be so much better for me if I could just be more carefree about things. That is such a cool story about how you got your period back the moment you decided to let go.

I probably need to start my letting go by cutting down on the number of supplements I take. I literally have a handful that I take two to three timesa day.

 

[Sizzles]

I'm pleased you're sounding more positive after your acu session Cali.

Turbo T - I can't believe you've been trying for 13 years. Sadly, for me to have been trying 13 years will put me at 44 years old, which I really think is too old (for me) to still be trying. I'll just have to hope and pray that it happens (much much) sooner.

I agree in principle with the 'relaxed approach', but I just cannot find it in myself to let go; to relax about things would mean not really trying and in my mind that adds up to potentially not having a baby. I put stupid time-scales on myself, which of course just adds to the pressure. I'll work out when 12 weeks would be each cycle and link that to the nearest 'event' for announcing the pregnancy, e.g Christmas or someone's birthday or a family gathering. Another one I do is work out when I would need to fall pg in order for me not to have had another birthday and therefore be a year older at becoming a first time mum. I think for me it might have to be a compromise, and not so much relaxing, but not stressing too much; although they refer to stress as a contributing factor to infertility, I have also read that it has to be proper stress, like a bereavement, severe work/family problems etc. to have an effect.

My period still hasn't arrived. I'm rather disappointed actually, after last time. In fact after the acu yesterday the spotting pretty much stopped and so far there is very little today too. I'm sure I can't be pg or I wouldn't have the spotting, but I kind of wish I'd taken a test this morning just to rule it out. I'm now 16dpo and on day 5 of spotting (albeit scanty). We're going away this weekend and I'd really like af to be done and dusted by Saturday afternoon. Although the spotting didn't start until 12dpo, I do feel a little bit let down (?) or maybe disillusioned, with the acu. Still, I've said I'd give it a reasonable shot, so that's what I'll do. Onwards and upwards!

 

[CaliDreaming]

I'm pleased you're sounding more positive after your acu session Cali.

Turbo T - I can't believe you've been trying for 13 years. Sadly, for me to have been trying 13 years will put me at 44 years old, which I really think is too old (for me) to still be trying. I'll just have to hope and pray that it happens (much much) sooner.

I agree in principle with the 'relaxed approach', but I just cannot find it in myself to let go; to relax about things would mean not really trying and in my mind that adds up to potentially not having a baby. I put stupid time-scales on myself, which of course just adds to the pressure. I'll work out when 12 weeks would be each cycle and link that to the nearest 'event' for announcing the pregnancy, e.g Christmas or someone's birthday or a family gathering. Another one I do is work out when I would need to fall pg in order for me not to have had another birthday and therefore be a year older at becoming a first time mum. I think for me it might have to be a compromise, and not so much relaxing, but not stressing too much; although they refer to stress as a contributing factor to infertility, I have also read that it has to be proper stress, like a bereavement, severe work/family problems etc. to have an effect.

My period still hasn't arrived. I'm rather disappointed actually, after last time. In fact after the acu yesterday the spotting pretty much stopped and so far there is very little today too. I'm sure I can't be pg or I wouldn't have the spotting, but I kind of wish I'd taken a test this morning just to rule it out. I'm now 16dpo and on day 5 of spotting (albeit scanty). We're going away this weekend and I'd really like af to be done and dusted by Saturday afternoon. Although the spotting didn't start until 12dpo, I do feel a little bit let down (?) or maybe disillusioned, with the acu. Still, I've said I'd give it a reasonable shot, so that's what I'll do. Onwards and upwards!

Yeah, it is really hard to let go. It's funny how we can all do the hard stuff, like changing diet and lifestyle, choking down supplements, etc., but the thing that should be easy is hard for us. Those artificial deadlines will definitely drive you nuts. Birthdays are getting much harder for me the closer I get to 40.

I read the same thing about there needing to be extreme stress to affect fertility and it was one of the reasons I resisted that advice for so long. The only month I ever skipped a period was the month when my mother died. But now I think lesser amounts of stress just can't be good. There is just no other explanation for why the folks who don't give a flip seem to be so much more fertile--esp. the ones who drink,do drugs, don't exercise and all the otherthings that are supposed to be super bad for fertility.

I think the modified version of letting go is a good idea. When I conceived dd, I had not stopped trying. I was still taking supplements and trying new things, but I had lost hope and wasn't expecting anything to happen. I was convinced that something was wrong with me, and dh and I had actually planned to go to an info session on fostering kids. My brother, who is almost 10 years younger than me, got his OH pregnant with an oops. At first it really bothered me, but as her due date approached, I somehow was able to let go and be happy for them. I found out I was pregnant right after her baby shower. So maybe a modified version of letting go is the best folks like us can manage. Instead of TTC and expecting a BFP, maybe you could just go through the motions.

I know it must be disappointing about the spotting and your no show period, but it really does take time for changes to happen in your body. There a lot of people who get instant success with it, but I'm convinced those are people who just have mild imbalances or something. My acu told me that it takes a minimum of 3-6 months to see results. I really hate to hear when acus tell folks that most women get pregnant within 3 months, because we are all different and it's so discouraging when it takes longer than that.

P.S. it's still possible that you are pregnant even with the spotting! Tons of women spot during pregnancy.

 

[Sizzles]

I know what you mean about the people who don't give a damn and fall pg. I've had similar situations (unrelated to ttc) when going for jobs; when I've not been that bothered, or on the one occasion when actually I felt really unwell, I was offered the job! I shall do my best not to stress too much and to 'go through the motions'.

I think the reason I'd expected my period to turn up quite quickly was simply based on the fact that it had last time; I mistakenly had thought this meant a repeat was almost guaranteed. Still waiting, but I have the af pains now (another thing she'd said she treat for but are still present!) so I'm sure it's just a matter of time - hopefully tomorrow morning, if not before.

I don't mean to sound down on the TCM, it's just the negative feelings I have at the mo and because I'd had such positive results to begin with. I'm sure it's doing some good on some level.

 

[Sizzles]

Well, soon after yesterday's post the af cramps started, and I pretty much spent late afternoon/evening in bed. Not as bad as a few times I've had, but pretty uncomfortable. Sadly, after taking a couple of stong-ish painkillers, I had to resort to a 'horse-tablet' prescribed for period pain as it just wasn't shifting. It did work, but mefenamic acid isn't supposed to be good when ttc. I only have 1 tablet left so need to visit my doc for more; I think I'll ask about the effects on fertility, though I expect to be told that it's fine as I think general practitioners don't really know about these things.

TMI:
I know acu lady will ask about my period when I see her next week. Despite it being painful, I do think the blood looks kind of 'fresher'. Hopefully a move in the right direction.

 

[Jen1802]

Fresh blood is a good sign! Did af actually turn up today then or do you mean the spotting looked fresher? For the spotting have you tried taking a vit b complex?? There is a thread on here somewhere which most of us original tcm girls met on called low progesterone or vit b complex to treat it, can't remember exact name. Vit b complex increases progesterone levels and helps stop the spotting, however it may be an idea to just go with the tcm for another few months first.

Out of interest how long has everyone been going down the tcm route? It is true that everyone is different and depending on what the issue is it can take longer for tcm to bring the body back into balance. For the most part I think the vast majority of us original girls got pregnant using tcm where everything else we'd tried failed, what I'm trying to say is the results speak for themselves.

As for letting go and relaxing and trying not to think about things, well that never really worked for me, I just couldn't let go and I think tcm at least made me feel I was doing something proactive rather than just sitting back and worrying that it wasn't ever going to happen. However I know it works for loads of other people so different strokes for different folks! xo

 

[TurboTurtle80]

As for me, I honestly don't go to acu just for getting pregnant. Its really only a small part of why I go. I just feel better after going. I feel relaxed during the session. Plus I don't want all of my sessions to be a waste. I have a goal and I'm going to see natural methods all the way through to the end. The needles feel so pleasant going in. I get that "aaaawww" feeling, so its my natural destressor. Idk what makes me feel so different from everyone else. Maybe with the many years I've not had a baby makes me not desire a child so badly. Don't get me wrong, I want to have children, but I don't allow myself to get too torn up about it. I focus my energies into a million other things and that leaves very little time to worry about why I'm not getting pregnant. Maybe I'm just at that point where I'm OK being without??

 

[Jen1802]

I loved the whole holistic aspect of tcm, its calming and uplifting and although my ultimate goal was to get pregnant it was hard to not see the other numerous benefits it had, it stopped the anxiety I'd been previously feeling, made me a lovely chilled person to be around, cured my hormonal breakouts which I'd suffered from since I was 12...in general it just made me feel better equipped to deal with everything both physically and mentally. I'm glad you're feeling the same about acu Turbo, it really is awesome!! x

 

[CaliDreaming]

As for me, I honestly don't go to acu just for getting pregnant. Its really only a small part of why I go. I just feel better after going. I feel relaxed during the session. Plus I don't want all of my sessions to be a waste. I have a goal and I'm going to see natural methods all the way through to the end. The needles feel so pleasant going in. I get that "aaaawww" feeling, so its my natural destressor. Idk what makes me feel so different from everyone else. Maybe with the many years I've not had a baby makes me not desire a child so badly. Don't get me wrong, I want to have children, but I don't allow myself to get too torn up about it. I focus my energies into a million other things and that leaves very little time to worry about why I'm not getting pregnant. Maybe I'm just at that point where I'm OK being without??

If I ever get pregnant, or decide to quit trying, I think I'll still go for those other reasons. I have a family history of cancer, and so I want to do everything I can do to keep from getting it. I think TCM have a better idea of how to prevent it than Western medicine practitioners.

Out of interest how long has everyone been going down the tcm route? It is true that everyone is different and depending on what the issue is it can take longer for tcm to bring the body back into balance. For the most part I think the vast majority of us original girls got pregnant using tcm where everything else we'd tried failed, what I'm trying to say is the results speak for themselves.

As for letting go and relaxing and trying not to think about things, well that never really worked for me, I just couldn't let go and I think tcm at least made me feel I was doing something proactive rather than just sitting back and worrying that it wasn't ever going to happen. However I know it works for loads of other people so different strokes for different folks! xo

I'm on my fourth cycle of trying with TCM, and this is my ninth cycle of actively trying. It took eight cycles to conceive dd, so that is part of the reason I had been feeling so depressed. Back then eight months felt like an eternity, and now I've passed that benchmark. I'm definitely going to stick with acu until I get pg or until I decide to quit trying.

Well, soon after yesterday's post the af cramps started, and I pretty much spent late afternoon/evening in bed. Not as bad as a few times I've had, but pretty uncomfortable. Sadly, after taking a couple of stong-ish painkillers, I had to resort to a 'horse-tablet' prescribed for period pain as it just wasn't shifting. It did work, but mefenamic acid isn't supposed to be good when ttc. I only have 1 tablet left so need to visit my doc for more; I think I'll ask about the effects on fertility, though I expect to be told that it's fine as I think general practitioners don't really know about these things.

TMI:
I know acu lady will ask about my period when I see her next week. Despite it being painful, I do think the blood looks kind of 'fresher'. Hopefully a move in the right direction.

Fresh blood is great. That seems to be the main thing they look for. Maybe your periods will start to get less painful now that your blood is circulating better.

 

[jojo-m]

Has anyone tried soy isoflavones? I got pg after 19 months TTC and that stopped the spotting and short luteal phase I'd been having, I'd tried TCM herbs vit b complex and many other things but soy took 2 months to cure this x

 

[Jen1802]

I took soy iso to get pregnant with dd2 as I was ovulating too late in my cycle again, however I was doing this at the same time as doing tcm so I'm not sure whether it was the soy iso or the tcm. Possibly a combination of them both! Cali I was trying for 8 or 9 months to get pregnant first time round, so I can understand the anxiety now that its not happened in the same time frame as before. When we made the decision to get pregnant the second time round I tried for one cycle not doing anything and then went to the tcm practitioner again as I knew it'd worked the first time for us. Your tcm practitioner is right though, mine told me it takes awhile for the body to build itself up again after a pregnancy and not to expect anything for awhile longer this time. We were just fortunate it worked very quickly, though in some ways I wonder was my body not prepared to have another baby so quickly and is that why dd2 was born at 26 weeks... xoxo

 

[Sizzles]

Fresh blood is a good sign! Did af actually turn up today then or do you mean the spotting looked fresher? For the spotting have you tried taking a vit b complex?? There is a thread on here somewhere which most of us original tcm girls met on called low progesterone or vit b complex to treat it, can't remember exact name. Vit b complex increases progesterone levels and helps stop the spotting, however it may be an idea to just go with the tcm for another few months first.

Out of interest how long has everyone been going down the tcm route? It is true that everyone is different and depending on what the issue is it can take longer for tcm to bring the body back into balance. For the most part I think the vast majority of us original girls got pregnant using tcm where everything else we'd tried failed, what I'm trying to say is the results speak for themselves.

As for letting go and relaxing and trying not to think about things, well that never really worked for me, I just couldn't let go and I think tcm at least made me feel I was doing something proactive rather than just sitting back and worrying that it wasn't ever going to happen. However I know it works for loads of other people so different strokes for different folks! xo

I had the acu on Tuesday morning and af arrived Wednesday evening, but I still don't know whether I should be classing that as cd1 or Thursday (I'd read that if af arrives after a certain time in the day, then the next day should be cd1; this is certainly the case for using FF).
I agree that the 'fresher' looking blood is a positive thing; I'm sure acu lady will be delighted! I'd be pleased if it would cut out these horrendous cramps each month! AF finished yesterday, but 48 hours is definitely typical for me. So far I've had only the slightest of spotting too, so I'm hoping maybe the TCM has encouraged my body to 'clear out' all in one go, rather than spotting pre af, then af, then spotting post af, but we'll see - I'm fully expecting some spotting still. As for the vitB or vitex, I haven't tried it as yet as my bloods have always come back ok for progresterone, although I agree that there has to be a reason for the spotting.

Jen, I'm encouraged by your experience of the 'trying to relax' as it seems you had a similar approach to me and found it very difficult not to think about it! Since you now have children, it suggests it's not perhaps as important as other things, especially if treating with TCM.

Well cd3 (or is it 4??) for me, so it looks like I'll ov the first week back at school! Still, as a result of this ttc lark being 'unproductive', I've actually cut my hours and will be a part-time teacher from September, so hopefully I'll still have the energy for dtd at the right time! (Mind you, it comes to something when a severe cut in pay is required in the quest for happiness!)

Happy bank holiday weekend to those UK ladies who have it. It's nearly Christmas! (well, last bank holiday before Christmas)