This morning

[fidgets mammy]

i also think saying the child was abandoned is a bit steep.
at 3 yrs old he probably was testing the boundaries, as i have already said this method isnt for me but they chose it it worked happy days.

 

[chell5544]

In the grand scheme of things, if it took a few hours of crying for him to every night sleep well and in his own bed which in turn makes him a happier child in the daytime then and if nothing else they tried worked then they did what was best for them. Assuming everything they said was true.

I guess this is where there are divergent schools of parenting thought. In my "grand scheme" I see that the child may appear happier, and that the problem has been 'solved', but to me the underlying issue has never been addressed and the child has simply been taught that if he is not compliant, his parents will abandon him completely until he becomes so.

This is a "grand scheme" lesson that I do not wish to teach my kids, because I believe that it could (not *will definitely* but I think there is a good chance) lead to anxiety problems, parental/authority distrust, parental resistance, or conversely, excessive acquiescence, people-pleasing behaviour etc, later in life. I would rather co-sleep, re-settle, search harder for the source of the problem, wait-it-out, etc than resort to leaving a child to scream for hours. Other people might well disagree, but it's just not in me to do that.

Why does there have to be an underlying issue? Why can it never be children exploring something new, testing their boundaries? Somethings just dont need such in depth analysis all the time (IMO)

Thank you sooo much for saying this!! I agree. And don't see why a child cant just be being naughty either......

I agree too I don't believe there is always some underlaying issue to why a child wakes and gets up to go exploring/jumping into parents bed why can't it be just simple and they do it because they can/want to

 

[babyrough]

In the grand scheme of things, if it took a few hours of crying for him to every night sleep well and in his own bed which in turn makes him a happier child in the daytime then and if nothing else they tried worked then they did what was best for them. Assuming everything they said was true.

I guess this is where there are divergent schools of parenting thought. In my "grand scheme" I see that the child may appear happier, and that the problem has been 'solved', but to me the underlying issue has never been addressed and the child has simply been taught that if he is not compliant, his parents will abandon him completely until he becomes so.

This is a "grand scheme" lesson that I do not wish to teach my kids, because I believe that it could (not *will definitely* but I think there is a good chance) lead to anxiety problems, parental/authority distrust, parental resistance, or conversely, excessive acquiescence, people-pleasing behaviour etc, later in life. I would rather co-sleep, re-settle, search harder for the source of the problem, wait-it-out, etc than resort to leaving a child to scream for hours. Other people might well disagree, but it's just not in me to do that.

I completely disagree. A child of 3 knows how to play their parents up, children can just be naughty. Very rarely it may be an underlying issue. And it's your choice obviously but I would much rather nip it in the bud now than have a 15 year old afraid to sleep in their room and jumping in to bed with you.

 

[Larkspur]

Why does there have to be an underlying issue? Why can it never be children exploring something new, testing their boundaries? Somethings just dont need such in depth analysis all the time (IMO) I completely disagree with your last statement that 3 nights at 3 years old would cause any long term 'damage'. Im also with you on that its not something I would do, because other methods have worked for me, but for this family, it did not.

Of course children test boundaries and try new things - I didn't say that was never the case - but in my opinion six months of chronic refusal to stay in bed does not fall into that category. I should add that the 'underlying issue' may be nothing to do with the child, but inconsistent parenting, etc

As you say, we disagree completely; that's okay.

 

[lau86]

He may have been being naughty and testing boundaries but it didn't imply that in the article. To me it was the attitude of the dad that seems all wrong rather than the locking in itself.

 

[fidgets mammy]

my son refused to stay in bed til he was 3. purely due to habit as thats what it had become.

 

[Bella_Bee]

@Bella, I dont think of it as child cruellty at all He is loved, he was safe in the bedroom, within 3 nights he was sleeping through the nights. If he was still screaming 6 months later i'd be agreeing with you. But 3 nights? Nah. He was probably crying for 3 hours a night prior to having his door locked.

That's not really how it works. If your husband locked you in your room and you "only" cried for 3 nights and he was lovely the rest of the time is it not domestic abuse?

Of course he only cried for 3 nights, he's an intelligent human being. The first night, as you will have read, he screamed for 3 solid hours. He actually fell asleep curled up behind the bedroom door... The second night will hav been less of a shock but still very upsetting and the third night he's getting more used to it. After that, he knows the score. No point bothering, it feels worse to cry for so long than just giving up and getting on with it, no matter how you feel inside. It would be the same for anyone.

The thought of that poor child locked in his room screaming so hard that he went hoarse for a full day and curling up behind the door as he was desperately trying to get out and be heard until he was so exhausted that he fell asleep where he was knocks me sick.

To the people who repeatedly say children need to learn and assorted fun stories like "Zomg I once knew a 50 year old man who still co-slept with his mum! Co-sleeping is to blames!!!" ... Why do they need to learn? On average most children, left to their own devices, start to sleep along around 8 or 9. What is wrong with a 12 year old getting in with their parents? 12 is still so young in the scheme of things, 3 is still just a baby! Some children don't like to co-sleep and that's fine, it would be madness to force it, but if it's just "not for me" then meh... You're the one who needs to learn, to be frank.

I think it's just to close to home for most people as it's not that far from CC/CIO and not all that different to leaving them in a barred cot or playpen or behind a safety gate. I imagine that would be an uncomfortable feeling.

 

[LoraLoo]

@Bella, I dont think of it as child cruellty at all He is loved, he was safe in the bedroom, within 3 nights he was sleeping through the nights. If he was still screaming 6 months later i'd be agreeing with you. But 3 nights? Nah. He was probably crying for 3 hours a night prior to having his door locked.

That's not really how it works. If your husband locked you in your room and you "only" cried for 3 nights and he was lovely the rest of the time is it not domestic abuse?

Of course he only cried for 3 nights, he's an intelligent human being. The first night, as you will have read, he screamed for 3 solid hours. He actually fell asleep curled up behind the bedroom door... The second night will hav been less of a shock but still very upsetting and the third night he's getting more used to it. After that, he knows the score. No point bothering, it feels worse to cry for so long than just giving up and getting on with it, no matter how you feel inside. It would be the same for anyone.

The thought of that poor child locked in his room screaming so hard that he went hoarse for a full day and curling up behind the door as he was desperately trying to get out and be heard until he was so exhausted that he fell asleep where he was knocks me sick.

To the people who repeatedly say children need to learn and assorted fun stories like "Zomg I once knew a 50 year old man who still co-slept with his mum! Co-sleeping is to blames!!!" ... Why do they need to learn? On average most children, left to their own devices, start to sleep along around 8 or 9. What is wrong with a 12 year old getting in with their parents? 12 is still so young in the scheme of things, 3 is still just a baby! Some children don't like to co-sleep and that's fine, it would be madness to force it, but if it's just "not for me" then meh... You're the one who needs to learn, to be frank.

I think it's just to close to home for most people as it's not that far from CC/CIO and not all that different to leaving them in a barred cot or playpen or behind a safety gate. I imagine that would be an uncomfortable feeling.

If you had read any of my other posts you would have seen that I have co-slept in the past. I have also done CC. 3 days (only!) crying to me is preferable to the 6 months he probably cried previously. My husband wouldnt lock me in the bedroom because i appreciate that i need my sleep, if i choose not to, on my head be it, a child doesnt understand that.

 

[Bella_Bee]

What is naughty? We aren't born naughty and needing to be told how to behave, what a mess that would be... Naughty is subjective. One mum's naughty is another mum's confident. One mum's naughty is another mum's attached.

Sure, toddlers push boundaries but healthy children don't push it so far that they deprive themselves of sleep. The clue is in what this man was saying... Calling him clingy. He obviously just wanted to be with them and they as good as created a sleep disorder by ignoring that.

 

[LoraLoo]

What is naughty? We aren't born naughty and needing to be told how to behave, what a mess that would be... Naughty is subjective. One mum's naughty is another mum's confident. One mum's naughty is another mum's attached.

Sure, toddlers push boundaries but healthy children don't push it so far that they deprive themselves of sleep. The clue is in what this man was saying... Calling him clingy. He obviously just wanted to be with them and they as good as created a sleep disorder by ignoring that.

My youngest is clingy i have no qualms about saying that. Why does everything have to be so politically correct these days. Some children are just naughty. Naughty and confident are 2 different things.

 

[lozzy21]

People keep going on about others judging, well im sorry but if some one publicly declares parts of their life on a news paper and on national TV they are asking for people to judge them. Its only one step away from some one running around naked covered in blue pain shouting look at me.

 

[BlueHadeda]

I guess this is one of those parenting issues where you either agree, or you disagree strongly.

I just hate it when people say they tried "everything". Really?? Everything?? Hmmmm....

The first thing I would've tried, like another poster said, would be to put the boy's matress next to my bed and bolt MY bedroom door. Keeping my son safe and sound and comforted. If safety was really their concern, they would not have bolted him in his own room where "precious boy Sonny flung himself round the room like a whirling dervish, and screamed like a caged animal" Doesn't sound very safe to me!

If they didn't want him in their room, one of them could've stayed with him in his room. I also wonder, did they try playtherapy? Reward charts? Take him to a sleep clinic? Did they get/build a higher stairgate which the child couldn't open?

I get the impression this father was more concerned about HIMSELF, than about his son. HE wanted downtime in the evening (and not take his son back to bed up to 6 times at 7pm at night before he would fall asleep). HE wanted to sleep through the night. HE wanted his wife to follow HIS demand. HE was worried about what the neighbours would think if he let the child CIO.

I'm really sad to think about what that child went through. My son remembers when his finger was slammed in the door (no lasting damage, just a scrape) at that age. So for the dad to say his son won't remember this.... well, who knows?

I just can't fathom how as a mother you could let your husband put an ultimatum like that to you, then let that same man comfort YOU while your child is crying his little heart out for you. I'm sorry, but in my life, my children comes first. Not my husband. And yes, we do have an extremely happy marriage of almost 15 years now.

 

[Bella_Bee]

@Bella, I dont think of it as child cruellty at all He is loved, he was safe in the bedroom, within 3 nights he was sleeping through the nights. If he was still screaming 6 months later i'd be agreeing with you. But 3 nights? Nah. He was probably crying for 3 hours a night prior to having his door locked.

That's not really how it works. If your husband locked you in your room and you "only" cried for 3 nights and he was lovely the rest of the time is it not domestic abuse?

Of course he only cried for 3 nights, he's an intelligent human being. The first night, as you will have read, he screamed for 3 solid hours. He actually fell asleep curled up behind the bedroom door... The second night will hav been less of a shock but still very upsetting and the third night he's getting more used to it. After that, he knows the score. No point bothering, it feels worse to cry for so long than just giving up and getting on with it, no matter how you feel inside. It would be the same for anyone.

The thought of that poor child locked in his room screaming so hard that he went hoarse for a full day and curling up behind the door as he was desperately trying to get out and be heard until he was so exhausted that he fell asleep where he was knocks me sick.

To the people who repeatedly say children need to learn and assorted fun stories like "Zomg I once knew a 50 year old man who still co-slept with his mum! Co-sleeping is to blames!!!" ... Why do they need to learn? On average most children, left to their own devices, start to sleep along around 8 or 9. What is wrong with a 12 year old getting in with their parents? 12 is still so young in the scheme of things, 3 is still just a baby! Some children don't like to co-sleep and that's fine, it would be madness to force it, but if it's just "not for me" then meh... You're the one who needs to learn, to be frank.

I think it's just to close to home for most people as it's not that far from CC/CIO and not all that different to leaving them in a barred cot or playpen or behind a safety gate. I imagine that would be an uncomfortable feeling.

If you had read any of my other posts you would have seen that I have co-slept in the past. I have also done CC. 3 days (only!) crying to me is preferable to the 6 months he probably cried previously. My husband wouldnt lock me in the bedroom because i appreciate that i need my sleep, if i choose not to, on my head be it, a child doesnt understand that.

For one, there is a difference between crying in arms and screaming alone. For another, he didn't need to be crying at all - co-sleeping! I know many parents who go to bed with their toddlers. Some sit up and watch tv in bed as they sleep, others just get an early night.

So, if your husband locked you in a room when you just wanted him to spend time with you/share a bed with you - then it would be a good comparison. Not simply because you refuse to sleep, there is more to it - hence them going on about him being clingy.

 

[fidgets mammy]

well maybe he was being what they class as naughty. who knows? none of us as we dont know them.

 

[lozzy21]

Children are not just naughty. They are naughty because they are trying to say something or they dont realise what they are doing it wrong. They dont wake up and think im going to be naughty now, they think i want some reassurance but if i go into mum and dads room im just going to get sent back to bed so il try going downstairs and see if they will give me a hug then.

 

[LoraLoo]

@Bella, I dont think of it as child cruellty at all He is loved, he was safe in the bedroom, within 3 nights he was sleeping through the nights. If he was still screaming 6 months later i'd be agreeing with you. But 3 nights? Nah. He was probably crying for 3 hours a night prior to having his door locked.

That's not really how it works. If your husband locked you in your room and you "only" cried for 3 nights and he was lovely the rest of the time is it not domestic abuse?

Of course he only cried for 3 nights, he's an intelligent human being. The first night, as you will have read, he screamed for 3 solid hours. He actually fell asleep curled up behind the bedroom door... The second night will hav been less of a shock but still very upsetting and the third night he's getting more used to it. After that, he knows the score. No point bothering, it feels worse to cry for so long than just giving up and getting on with it, no matter how you feel inside. It would be the same for anyone.

The thought of that poor child locked in his room screaming so hard that he went hoarse for a full day and curling up behind the door as he was desperately trying to get out and be heard until he was so exhausted that he fell asleep where he was knocks me sick.

To the people who repeatedly say children need to learn and assorted fun stories like "Zomg I once knew a 50 year old man who still co-slept with his mum! Co-sleeping is to blames!!!" ... Why do they need to learn? On average most children, left to their own devices, start to sleep along around 8 or 9. What is wrong with a 12 year old getting in with their parents? 12 is still so young in the scheme of things, 3 is still just a baby! Some children don't like to co-sleep and that's fine, it would be madness to force it, but if it's just "not for me" then meh... You're the one who needs to learn, to be frank.

I think it's just to close to home for most people as it's not that far from CC/CIO and not all that different to leaving them in a barred cot or playpen or behind a safety gate. I imagine that would be an uncomfortable feeling.

If you had read any of my other posts you would have seen that I have co-slept in the past. I have also done CC. 3 days (only!) crying to me is preferable to the 6 months he probably cried previously. My husband wouldnt lock me in the bedroom because i appreciate that i need my sleep, if i choose not to, on my head be it, a child doesnt understand that.

For one, there is a difference between crying in arms and screaming alone. For another, he didn't need to be crying at all - co-sleeping! I know many parents who go to bed with their toddlers. Some sit up and watch tv in bed as they sleep, others just get an early night.

So, if your husband locked you in a room when you just wanted him to spend time with you/share a bed with you - then it would be a good comparison. Not simply because you refuse to sleep, there is more to it - hence them going on about him being clingy.

I co-slept, my baby still cried. In fact as soon as she went in her own room she went straight to sleeping 12 hours a night, she was so much happier during the day, so were me and my husband - i had a full nights sleep and my husband got to sleep back in his own bed. Ive already agreed with you that there are maybe other methods they could have explored or persevered with. But it still doesnt make them bad parents. It worked FOR THEM. Its not about you or I.

 

[Bella_Bee]

We don't have to know them. I don't need to know the woman and her kids on the bus to know that her screaming at them isn't on. I don't need to know anyone to know that locking anyone, of any age in a room and leaving them is disgusting.

This country has zero respect for children. Parents are a law unto themselves. Lock an adult up like this and you can be charged with false imprisonment even if the one you are locking up is likely to hurt themselves if you don't...

 

[Emma11511]

Haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating things, but, there are a few things about this bloke/story I don't understand.

1) If he went to the hassle of installing a lock, why would he just re-fit the door handle to a higher height? It would do exactly the same as a lock, without it being a safety risk.

2) I haven't seen anywhere about him being reported for it? Whether you agree with it or not, I'm pretty sure if I told the world, or health visitors, or GPs or anyone else, that I was locking my son in his room, I'd have SS on my back before I'd finished the conversation.

And 3) I have seen this mentioned before, but really, they DON'T know the child was just testing the boundaries. Maybe he was. Or maybe he stopped crying because he knew they wouldn't come, and thought they didn't care. I would HATE to think my son thought that of me. What if he had a nightmare and needed comforting? I often wake up in the night after having one and need a cuddle from OH. And I'm an adult.

 

[babyrough]

No children are not just naughty, they are naughty if they get away with anything they do because there parents just think they 'need reassurance' Sometimes yes, always no.
Oh look my 3 years olds picking up a knife, I won't explain to him what he is doing is wrong I'll just give him a hug that will make everything better.

This post is getting ridiculous. The child now sleeps perfectly fine. He is not going to remember crying for a while when he is older. He is not going to feel abandoned or have psychological issues from it. He is going to be a lot happier now he is getting a full night sleep.
And comparing it to your husband locking you in a room, seriously?

 

[LoraLoo]

Children are not just naughty. They are naughty because they are trying to say something or they dont realise what they are doing it wrong. They dont wake up and think im going to be naughty now, they think i want some reassurance but if i go into mum and dads room im just going to get sent back to bed so il try going downstairs and see if they will give me a hug then.

I disagree, i had naughty moments as a child, purely because the 'naughty' things were more entertaining than the not-naughty things!

Anyway, glad we have all kept this discussion civilised