This morning

[Bella_Bee]

I completely disagree. A child of 3 knows how to play their parents up, children can just be naughty. Very rarely it may be an underlying issue. And it's your choice obviously but I would much rather nip it in the bud now than have a 15 year old afraid to sleep in their room and jumping in to bed with you.

I have actually never met or heard of a 15-year-old who would get into their parents' bed because their parents didn't let them cry themselves to sleep to stop them being 'naughty'. So I am happy to run that risk. I have, however, met lots of people with 'unexplained' anxiety issues and parents who believed in smacking, CIO etc, so to me that seems like a bigger risks.

Obviously nothing is set in stone in terms of consequences of one set of parenting choices over another... We all make the choices that make the most sense to us.

i think it was quite obvious that i was exaggerating about the 15 year old.

Quite.

Children become independent in their own time, this is healthy. Forcing independence is not true, solid, confident independence. It is an illusion with potentially debilitating consequences.

 

[Soph n Chris]

My partners an engineer therefore I must be qualified to make decisions about his current construction project...

 

[Bella_Bee]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

Ok so what qualifies you to say that it is psychologically harmful?
Because back in the old days, it was normal, in fact doctors used to tell you to leave your child outside in there pram to go to sleep, and I don't think that whole generation of people have psychological issues?
And how do you know I don't know anything about psychology? Find that quite rude.

My partner works in child psychology, has a phd blah blah. I've picked up a lot along the way as we met at the beginning of uni.

Is it rude? What you are saying and what is known about mental health, particularly in children is wildly conflicting. Essentially, it's pretty ignorant.

It depends what you consider to be psychological issues. Obesity, alcoholism and drug abuse are a major problem. Minor issues such as anxiety, depression, anger, guilt avoidance and self esteem issues are also rife. It's a rare person who is truly mentally healthy these days and the sickness is being passed down from generation to generation. Contrary to what you might think, emotional baggage isn't normal.

Just because you're not a psychopath doesn't mean you're not affected. Hell, this man locking his child in a room has clear psychological issues!

I have also studied psychology.

So if your saying being mentally healthy is very rare, then your child who isn't left to CIO etc etc, will still most probably end up with some form of mental issue? Which ultimately means that whatever you do as a parent and however you decide to bring your child up, they is never going to be a right or wrong way. So lets just leave it at that. Some agree, others don't.

Perhaps. But, we have invested a great deal of thought and time into every aspect of our parenting.

We're far from perfect, but we don't fly in the face of nature and psychology as we want our children to be as mentally healthy as possible.

 

[cissyhope]

but was the parents asked whether they considered co sleeping/bed sharing?

 

[babyrough]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

Ok so what qualifies you to say that it is psychologically harmful?
Because back in the old days, it was normal, in fact doctors used to tell you to leave your child outside in there pram to go to sleep, and I don't think that whole generation of people have psychological issues?
And how do you know I don't know anything about psychology? Find that quite rude.

My partner works in child psychology, has a phd blah blah. I've picked up a lot along the way as we met at the beginning of uni.

Is it rude? What you are saying and what is known about mental health, particularly in children is wildly conflicting. Essentially, it's pretty ignorant.

It depends what you consider to be psychological issues. Obesity, alcoholism and drug abuse are a major problem. Minor issues such as anxiety, depression, anger, guilt avoidance and self esteem issues are also rife. It's a rare person who is truly mentally healthy these days and the sickness is being passed down from generation to generation. Contrary to what you might think, emotional baggage isn't normal.

Just because you're not a psychopath doesn't mean you're not affected. Hell, this man locking his child in a room has clear psychological issues!

I have also studied psychology.

So if your saying being mentally healthy is very rare, then your child who isn't left to CIO etc etc, will still most probably end up with some form of mental issue? Which ultimately means that whatever you do as a parent and however you decide to bring your child up, they is never going to be a right or wrong way. So lets just leave it at that. Some agree, others don't.

Perhaps. But, we have invested a great deal of thought and time into every aspect of our parenting.

We're far from perfect, but we don't fly in the face of nature and psychology as we want our children to be as mentally healthy as possible.

And i'm sure the parents in this story have also thought long and hard about their parenting choices, and they did what worked for them.

 

[x Michelle x]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

What qualifies you to say it does?
Of course its different to my man locking me in my room, i don't need to learn to sleep in my bed all night....
Some children need to be taught to sleep, heck i taught my children to eat, aided with their walking, show them how things work and yes, use words like No and Naughty.
I also like a few hours in the evening to myself, i love my children but i need a break sometimes!

Children need to be taught to sleep? I'd require some proof, please. I'm not saying sleep disorders don't exist, but you'd think they all have them if baby club is anything to go by. It's certainly not normal.

We all need a break but it shouldn't be at the expense of our children. Have them stay with a family member one night, go shopping one day - don't lock your devastated child in their room and ignore their pleas and screams!

I said SOME children. For example, my child of 10 months wakes at 10pm.. do i take him downstairs, let him play, roll about then take him up again when he looks sleepy? No, i try rocking him back down first, if that fails i feed him, cuddle and set him back down. In my opinion that is teaching him to sleep, encouraging him that night is for sleepy time..

 

[Bella_Bee]

My partners an engineer therefore I must be qualified to make decisions about his current construction project...

I am discussing theory and current evidence, not offering therapy...

 

[Bella_Bee]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

What qualifies you to say it does?
Of course its different to my man locking me in my room, i don't need to learn to sleep in my bed all night....
Some children need to be taught to sleep, heck i taught my children to eat, aided with their walking, show them how things work and yes, use words like No and Naughty.
I also like a few hours in the evening to myself, i love my children but i need a break sometimes!

Children need to be taught to sleep? I'd require some proof, please. I'm not saying sleep disorders don't exist, but you'd think they all have them if baby club is anything to go by. It's certainly not normal.

We all need a break but it shouldn't be at the expense of our children. Have them stay with a family member one night, go shopping one day - don't lock your devastated child in their room and ignore their pleas and screams!

I said SOME children. For example, my child of 10 months wakes at 10pm.. do i take him downstairs, let him play, roll about then take him up again when he looks sleepy? No, i try rocking him back down first, if that fails i feed him, cuddle and set him back down. In my opinion that is teaching him to sleep, encouraging him that night is for sleepy time..

Feeding children who wake at night is normal. As is resettling. Doing this when they are not tired or just leaving them alone is not.

 

[x Michelle x]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

What qualifies you to say it does?
Of course its different to my man locking me in my room, i don't need to learn to sleep in my bed all night....
Some children need to be taught to sleep, heck i taught my children to eat, aided with their walking, show them how things work and yes, use words like No and Naughty.
I also like a few hours in the evening to myself, i love my children but i need a break sometimes!

Children need to be taught to sleep? I'd require some proof, please. I'm not saying sleep disorders don't exist, but you'd think they all have them if baby club is anything to go by. It's certainly not normal.

We all need a break but it shouldn't be at the expense of our children. Have them stay with a family member one night, go shopping one day - don't lock your devastated child in their room and ignore their pleas and screams!

I said SOME children. For example, my child of 10 months wakes at 10pm.. do i take him downstairs, let him play, roll about then take him up again when he looks sleepy? No, i try rocking him back down first, if that fails i feed him, cuddle and set him back down. In my opinion that is teaching him to sleep, encouraging him that night is for sleepy time..

Feeding children who wake at night is normal. As is resettling. Doing this when they are not tired or just leaving them alone is not.

But surely its teaching and encouraging him to stay in "sleep mode"?
Sorry, i've gone off on a tangent so i'll leave it there.

 

[Larkspur]

I completely disagree. A child of 3 knows how to play their parents up, children can just be naughty. Very rarely it may be an underlying issue. And it's your choice obviously but I would much rather nip it in the bud now than have a 15 year old afraid to sleep in their room and jumping in to bed with you.

I have actually never met or heard of a 15-year-old who would get into their parents' bed because their parents didn't let them cry themselves to sleep to stop them being 'naughty'. So I am happy to run that risk. I have, however, met lots of people with 'unexplained' anxiety issues and parents who believed in smacking, CIO etc, so to me that seems like a bigger risks.

Obviously nothing is set in stone in terms of consequences of one set of parenting choices over another... We all make the choices that make the most sense to us.

i think it was quite obvious that i was exaggerating about the 15 year old.

Between the minimization (a bit of crying) and exaggeration (15-year-olds in your bed) it is getting hard to remember that what people are actually objecting to is locking a child who is only three in a room to scream for hours before he falls asleep from exhaustion. Maybe I am too soft-hearted but I do not understand why it's so hard to understand that some people just are not okay with that.

 

[Tasha]

I hate the idea of anyone locked in a room for three hours crying. My children would be terrified if I did that to them.

As for remembering, my son was three when he was hit by my MIL. It is the only thing he remembers of her (he is eight now). Some children wont remember, but some children will.

 

[Nibblenic]

On one hand Im not totally against sleep training. However this story isnt about some sort of last resort to do with sleep training.
There are other factors here in the story. He continues to lock his child in the room when he wakes up for up to 2 hours. It states that when he wakes he is left in the room until they are ready to get up at 7am. Now I think its pretty normal for children to be up anytime from 5:30am to 8:30am and when your child gets up you get out of friggin bed. It is what you signed up for!
He hasnt been just locking the little boy in the room as some sort of last sleep training resort. I also think it speaks volumes that the Lo was in a cot well past the average age, that instead of taking the side of when he was big enough to climb out he was restrained in a sleeping bag. It was only when he had a serious fall whilst in that bag that they took the side off.

This isnt sleep training or anything of the sort it is locking a child in a room for 12 hours so they can continue with their lives as they want to. Its putting themselves first, rather than their very young child.

He mentioned that other children are effectively locked in their room by high door handles. We have these through out our house, Lo at a very tall almost 4 still can not reach the door handles in most of our rooms. However the bloody difference is when she or we shut a door and she wants it open I go a do it. When we put her to bed a night if she wants to see us again we go and see her.

Now I have never had problems with Lo's sleeping really. However I have forced her to do something she wasnt really ready for, which was giving up her dummy at night. She was just over 3, so a similar age and we were told by a dentist it was starting to damage and change the shape of her teeth. So it really did need to go. She as I say was effectively locked in her room as she cant get out herself. The difference is we whilst she was screaming for it we went in every 5-20 minutes for 6 hours till she eventually fel asleep in her own bed. Knowing that we understood she was upset and we were there for her. In a similar way it took her 3 nights to settle without the dummy.
She was warm, fed dry and most friggin importantly felt loved. They are little people not little pets!

 

[lhancock90]

Personally i hate the idea of sleep training. I have never done it yet.
Ivy is a terrible sleeper, even whilst bed sharing but i am powering on through without CIO and my OH hasn't threatened to leave.
I can get past this mans threats to leave, i grit my teeth silently as the door locking, but for 3 HOURS. That absolutely sickens me.

 

[MommyJogger]

Yeah, it's one thing to lock him in if he settles well, but is getting up randomly and doing dangerous things in the house. It's another to lock him in when he's clearly upset and then leaving him there for some number of hours. The husband sounds like an asshole. He was only 3. For the love of God, in like, 3 more years he's going to want nothing to do with his parents anyway. Did they not get the memo that kids are hard? And require sleepless nights? And, you know, need attention? She should have let the douchebag leave. Maybe then he'd learn how lonely it is to sleep by himself.

 

[special_kala]

Im shocked that there is a debate on this.

If you locked a distressed adult in a room for 12 hours, a vunerable elderly person, or a disabled person that im sure would be against some kind of law but when its a child who needs to learn then well thats clearly ok.....really do children deserve that little respect from us not to be treated like people too?

What these parents did was disgusting and if it were a single mum with 3 kids from different dads from a council estate saying she did this she would be vilified. I guess social status changes how people view things.

https://spirited-mama.com/2012/12/21/how-to-get-away-with-child-abuse/ very good take on this.

 

[fannyadams]

I agree there are parts that don't sit easy with me.
As others have mentioned-the morning thing, the relaxing evenings, the clingy thing, the cot at 2.5 and the whole why not be in the room with him.
I don't know why Denise didn't challenge him on any of these-I would be interested to hear his response.

 

[LoraLoo]

I agree there are parts that don't sit easy with me.
As others have mentioned-the morning thing, the relaxing evenings, the clingy thing, the cot at 2.5 and the whole why not be in the room with him.
I don't know why Denise didn't challenge him on any of these-I would be interested to hear his response.

Amy didnt go in a bed til she was 3 So what??

 

[special_kala]

If Willow is happy in a cot at 3 i would still have her in one but it seems to be the cot was just another restraint method. He worked out how to climb out so they put him in a sleeping bag when that didnt work they locked the door.

 

[Bella_Bee]

Anybody read his other articles. Other fun topics include how he gave his wife an ultimatum to make him a father within 2 years and why his wife's birth and post partum body (c-section scar, saggy belly and enlarged nipples) put him off sex for a year.

Oh and he was the editor of loaded magazine for 8 years, since leaving he has spent his time humiliating his family in the press.

What a catch.

 

[LoraLoo]

Anybody read his other articles. Other fun topics include how he gave his wife an ultimatum to make him a father within 2 years and why his wife's birth and post partum body (c-section scar, saggy belly and enlarged nipples) put him off sex for a year.

Oh and he was the editor of loaded magazine for 8 years, since leaving he has spent his time humiliating his family in the press.

What a catch.

Well its lucky for you he isnt your husband then