This morning

[emmalouise09]

what works for one doesnt always work for another.
i totally get where he was coming from.
there have been times where i've let my youngest cry and sit outside her bedroom door with it closed a jar but still enough for me to see through.
like he said on the show he done all the research spoke to different specialists and they said they didnt advice againist or with it to go ahead and do it.
i bet there are loads of parents out there who have done what he has done and if its worked for him and his family then so be it. ripping him apart and scrutinizing him for what he done for his family isn't going to stop others from doing it if it comes to it for other families.

i'm not ranting or being horrible to anyone out there who disagrees with what has been said etc i'm just putting my view across.

 

[LoraLoo]

No children are not just naughty, they are naughty if they get away with anything they do because there parents just think they 'need reassurance' Sometimes yes, always no.
Oh look my 3 years olds picking up a knife, I won't explain to him what he is doing is wrong I'll just give him a hug that will make everything better.

This post is getting ridiculous. The child now sleeps perfectly fine. He is not going to remember crying for a while when he is older. He is not going to feel abandoned or have psychological issues from it. He is going to be a lot happier now he is getting a full night sleep.
And comparing it to your husband locking you in a room, seriously?

Children ARE just naughty, for generations and generations kids have been called naughty, lol. There are times when my 3 yr old has done something naughty, which she knows its naughty, which she has said sorry for. And then gone and done it again (like biting)- that IS naughty behaviour. Each parent has their own methods and parenting styles, if it works, the child is happy- how is that wrong??

 

[Bella_Bee]

@Bella, I dont think of it as child cruellty at all He is loved, he was safe in the bedroom, within 3 nights he was sleeping through the nights. If he was still screaming 6 months later i'd be agreeing with you. But 3 nights? Nah. He was probably crying for 3 hours a night prior to having his door locked.

That's not really how it works. If your husband locked you in your room and you "only" cried for 3 nights and he was lovely the rest of the time is it not domestic abuse?

Of course he only cried for 3 nights, he's an intelligent human being. The first night, as you will have read, he screamed for 3 solid hours. He actually fell asleep curled up behind the bedroom door... The second night will hav been less of a shock but still very upsetting and the third night he's getting more used to it. After that, he knows the score. No point bothering, it feels worse to cry for so long than just giving up and getting on with it, no matter how you feel inside. It would be the same for anyone.

The thought of that poor child locked in his room screaming so hard that he went hoarse for a full day and curling up behind the door as he was desperately trying to get out and be heard until he was so exhausted that he fell asleep where he was knocks me sick.

To the people who repeatedly say children need to learn and assorted fun stories like "Zomg I once knew a 50 year old man who still co-slept with his mum! Co-sleeping is to blames!!!" ... Why do they need to learn? On average most children, left to their own devices, start to sleep along around 8 or 9. What is wrong with a 12 year old getting in with their parents? 12 is still so young in the scheme of things, 3 is still just a baby! Some children don't like to co-sleep and that's fine, it would be madness to force it, but if it's just "not for me" then meh... You're the one who needs to learn, to be frank.

I think it's just to close to home for most people as it's not that far from CC/CIO and not all that different to leaving them in a barred cot or playpen or behind a safety gate. I imagine that would be an uncomfortable feeling.

If you had read any of my other posts you would have seen that I have co-slept in the past. I have also done CC. 3 days (only!) crying to me is preferable to the 6 months he probably cried previously. My husband wouldnt lock me in the bedroom because i appreciate that i need my sleep, if i choose not to, on my head be it, a child doesnt understand that.

For one, there is a difference between crying in arms and screaming alone. For another, he didn't need to be crying at all - co-sleeping! I know many parents who go to bed with their toddlers. Some sit up and watch tv in bed as they sleep, others just get an early night.

So, if your husband locked you in a room when you just wanted him to spend time with you/share a bed with you - then it would be a good comparison. Not simply because you refuse to sleep, there is more to it - hence them going on about him being clingy.

I co-slept, my baby still cried. In fact as soon as she went in her own room she went straight to sleeping 12 hours a night, she was so much happier during the day, so were me and my husband - i had a full nights sleep and my husband got to sleep back in his own bed. Ive already agreed with you that there are maybe other methods they could have explored or persevered with. But it still doesnt make them bad parents. It worked FOR THEM. Its not about you or I.

And I agreed that co-sleeping is not for every child - but this boy was not happier alone. He was clingy.

My main issue is that I don't care what works for the parents, I care about what is best for the child.

 

[lozzy21]

Children are not just naughty. They are naughty because they are trying to say something or they dont realise what they are doing it wrong. They dont wake up and think im going to be naughty now, they think i want some reassurance but if i go into mum and dads room im just going to get sent back to bed so il try going downstairs and see if they will give me a hug then.

I disagree, i had naughty moments as a child, purely because the 'naughty' things were more entertaining than the not-naughty things!

Anyway, glad we have all kept this discussion civilised

You just said the reason why you were naughty though you were naughty because the naughty thing was more stimulating that the good thing. Thats a reason, change what you were supposed to be doing to something more fun and you would have been less likely to do what you were not supposed to be doing.

 

[babyrough]

No children are not just naughty, they are naughty if they get away with anything they do because there parents just think they 'need reassurance' Sometimes yes, always no.
Oh look my 3 years olds picking up a knife, I won't explain to him what he is doing is wrong I'll just give him a hug that will make everything better.

This post is getting ridiculous. The child now sleeps perfectly fine. He is not going to remember crying for a while when he is older. He is not going to feel abandoned or have psychological issues from it. He is going to be a lot happier now he is getting a full night sleep.
And comparing it to your husband locking you in a room, seriously?

Children ARE just naughty, for generations and generations kids have been called naughty, lol. There are times when my 3 yr old has done something naughty, which she knows its naughty, which she has said sorry for. And then gone and done it again (like biting)- that IS naughty behaviour. Each parent has their own methods and parenting styles, if it works, the child is happy- how is that wrong??

Yeah I agree some kids are plain naughty! I was just replying to whoever said that kids aren't naughty they are just looking for reassurance etc.

 

[Bella_Bee]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

 

[fidgets mammy]

some kids are just naughty. ive worked with enough to know that.

 

[LoraLoo]

@Bella, I dont think of it as child cruellty at all He is loved, he was safe in the bedroom, within 3 nights he was sleeping through the nights. If he was still screaming 6 months later i'd be agreeing with you. But 3 nights? Nah. He was probably crying for 3 hours a night prior to having his door locked.

That's not really how it works. If your husband locked you in your room and you "only" cried for 3 nights and he was lovely the rest of the time is it not domestic abuse?

Of course he only cried for 3 nights, he's an intelligent human being. The first night, as you will have read, he screamed for 3 solid hours. He actually fell asleep curled up behind the bedroom door... The second night will hav been less of a shock but still very upsetting and the third night he's getting more used to it. After that, he knows the score. No point bothering, it feels worse to cry for so long than just giving up and getting on with it, no matter how you feel inside. It would be the same for anyone.

The thought of that poor child locked in his room screaming so hard that he went hoarse for a full day and curling up behind the door as he was desperately trying to get out and be heard until he was so exhausted that he fell asleep where he was knocks me sick.

To the people who repeatedly say children need to learn and assorted fun stories like "Zomg I once knew a 50 year old man who still co-slept with his mum! Co-sleeping is to blames!!!" ... Why do they need to learn? On average most children, left to their own devices, start to sleep along around 8 or 9. What is wrong with a 12 year old getting in with their parents? 12 is still so young in the scheme of things, 3 is still just a baby! Some children don't like to co-sleep and that's fine, it would be madness to force it, but if it's just "not for me" then meh... You're the one who needs to learn, to be frank.

I think it's just to close to home for most people as it's not that far from CC/CIO and not all that different to leaving them in a barred cot or playpen or behind a safety gate. I imagine that would be an uncomfortable feeling.

If you had read any of my other posts you would have seen that I have co-slept in the past. I have also done CC. 3 days (only!) crying to me is preferable to the 6 months he probably cried previously. My husband wouldnt lock me in the bedroom because i appreciate that i need my sleep, if i choose not to, on my head be it, a child doesnt understand that.

For one, there is a difference between crying in arms and screaming alone. For another, he didn't need to be crying at all - co-sleeping! I know many parents who go to bed with their toddlers. Some sit up and watch tv in bed as they sleep, others just get an early night.

So, if your husband locked you in a room when you just wanted him to spend time with you/share a bed with you - then it would be a good comparison. Not simply because you refuse to sleep, there is more to it - hence them going on about him being clingy.

I co-slept, my baby still cried. In fact as soon as she went in her own room she went straight to sleeping 12 hours a night, she was so much happier during the day, so were me and my husband - i had a full nights sleep and my husband got to sleep back in his own bed. Ive already agreed with you that there are maybe other methods they could have explored or persevered with. But it still doesnt make them bad parents. It worked FOR THEM. Its not about you or I.

And I agreed that co-sleeping is not for every child - but this boy was not happier alone. He was clingy.

My main issue is that I don't care what works for the parents, I care about what is best for the child.

From what i read, i believe it was best for the child. He was hurting himself, getting no sleep, probably being told off. Now he is sleeping through the night and a happier toddler.

 

[LoraLoo]

Children are not just naughty. They are naughty because they are trying to say something or they dont realise what they are doing it wrong. They dont wake up and think im going to be naughty now, they think i want some reassurance but if i go into mum and dads room im just going to get sent back to bed so il try going downstairs and see if they will give me a hug then.

I disagree, i had naughty moments as a child, purely because the 'naughty' things were more entertaining than the not-naughty things!

Anyway, glad we have all kept this discussion civilised

You just said the reason why you were naughty though you were naughty because the naughty thing was more stimulating that the good thing. Thats a reason, change what you were supposed to be doing to something more fun and you would have been less likely to do what you were not supposed to be doing.

Disagree, jumping up and down on the bed was more fun but wasnt what was best for me, i should have been in the bloody bed! I had a good childhood, but i still had naughty moments. I think we will just agree to disagree on this one we all obviously have strong opinions on the matter, i guess the proof is in the pudding, as they say

 

[babyrough]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

Ok so what qualifies you to say that it is psychologically harmful?
Because back in the old days, it was normal, in fact doctors used to tell you to leave your child outside in there pram to go to sleep, and I don't think that whole generation of people have psychological issues?
And how do you know I don't know anything about psychology? Find that quite rude.

 

[lozzy21]

I had a great childhood and still had naughty moments, the point i was getting it as there is allways a reason for bad behaviour, be it trying to get attention, because you think its fun or because your impulse control is not fully developed and your cousin taking your toy has made you see red and the only thing you want to do it sink your teeth into her arm (that might have been me lol)

 

[x Michelle x]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

What qualifies you to say it does?
Of course its different to my man locking me in my room, i don't need to learn to sleep in my bed all night....
Some children need to be taught to sleep, heck i taught my children to eat, aided with their walking, show them how things work and yes, use words like No and Naughty.
I also like a few hours in the evening to myself, i love my children but i need a break sometimes!

 

[LoraLoo]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

I studied Phsychology, Biology and Sociology

 

[LittleBoo]

Bella_Bee can I just say... you're awesome.

 

[cissyhope]

i didnt see it on telly and have only read so many posts but why didnt the parents pop him into bed with them at night? sounds like the lill mite needed it... why would he be getting up at night? any ways nothing stays the same forever,it changes so i would have done any thing to have avoided what they did awful...

 

[Larkspur]

I completely disagree. A child of 3 knows how to play their parents up, children can just be naughty. Very rarely it may be an underlying issue. And it's your choice obviously but I would much rather nip it in the bud now than have a 15 year old afraid to sleep in their room and jumping in to bed with you.

I have actually never met or heard of a 15-year-old who would get into their parents' bed because their parents didn't let them cry themselves to sleep to stop them being 'naughty'. So I am happy to run that risk. I have, however, met lots of people with 'unexplained' anxiety issues and parents who believed in smacking, CIO etc, so to me that seems like a bigger risks.

Obviously nothing is set in stone in terms of consequences of one set of parenting choices over another... We all make the choices that make the most sense to us.

 

[Bella_Bee]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

Ok so what qualifies you to say that it is psychologically harmful?
Because back in the old days, it was normal, in fact doctors used to tell you to leave your child outside in there pram to go to sleep, and I don't think that whole generation of people have psychological issues?
And how do you know I don't know anything about psychology? Find that quite rude.

My partner works in child psychology, has a phd blah blah. I've picked up a lot along the way as we met at the beginning of uni.

Is it rude? What you are saying and what is known about mental health, particularly in children is wildly conflicting. Essentially, it's pretty ignorant.

It depends what you consider to be psychological issues. Obesity, alcoholism and drug abuse are a major problem. Minor issues such as anxiety, depression, anger, guilt avoidance and self esteem issues are also rife. It's a rare person who is truly mentally healthy these days and the sickness is being passed down from generation to generation. Contrary to what you might think, emotional baggage isn't normal.

Just because you're not a psychopath doesn't mean you're not affected. Hell, this man locking his child in a room has clear psychological issues!

 

[babyrough]

I completely disagree. A child of 3 knows how to play their parents up, children can just be naughty. Very rarely it may be an underlying issue. And it's your choice obviously but I would much rather nip it in the bud now than have a 15 year old afraid to sleep in their room and jumping in to bed with you.

I have actually never met or heard of a 15-year-old who would get into their parents' bed because their parents didn't let them cry themselves to sleep to stop them being 'naughty'. So I am happy to run that risk. I have, however, met lots of people with 'unexplained' anxiety issues and parents who believed in smacking, CIO etc, so to me that seems like a bigger risks.

Obviously nothing is set in stone in terms of consequences of one set of parenting choices over another... We all make the choices that make the most sense to us.

i think it was quite obvious that i was exaggerating about the 15 year old.

 

[Bella_Bee]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

What qualifies you to say it does?
Of course its different to my man locking me in my room, i don't need to learn to sleep in my bed all night....
Some children need to be taught to sleep, heck i taught my children to eat, aided with their walking, show them how things work and yes, use words like No and Naughty.
I also like a few hours in the evening to myself, i love my children but i need a break sometimes!

Children need to be taught to sleep? I'd require some proof, please. I'm not saying sleep disorders don't exist, but you'd think they all have them if baby club is anything to go by. It's certainly not normal.

We all need a break but it shouldn't be at the expense of our children. Have them stay with a family member one night, go shopping one day - don't lock your devastated child in their room and ignore their pleas and screams!

 

[babyrough]

It's interesting when people decide it's not psychologically harmful or that he won't remember it. What, exactly, qualifies you to make that assessment? What do you know of psychology and neurobiology?

Is it just that you don't think it will and, therefore, it won't? It's baffling...

How is it any different to your husband locking you in a room? It might seem different if you don't view your child as an equal and a person in their own right but I do so it's all the same as far as I'm concerned. Abusive.

Ok so what qualifies you to say that it is psychologically harmful?
Because back in the old days, it was normal, in fact doctors used to tell you to leave your child outside in there pram to go to sleep, and I don't think that whole generation of people have psychological issues?
And how do you know I don't know anything about psychology? Find that quite rude.

My partner works in child psychology, has a phd blah blah. I've picked up a lot along the way as we met at the beginning of uni.

Is it rude? What you are saying and what is known about mental health, particularly in children is wildly conflicting. Essentially, it's pretty ignorant.

It depends what you consider to be psychological issues. Obesity, alcoholism and drug abuse are a major problem. Minor issues such as anxiety, depression, anger, guilt avoidance and self esteem issues are also rife. It's a rare person who is truly mentally healthy these days and the sickness is being passed down from generation to generation. Contrary to what you might think, emotional baggage isn't normal.

Just because you're not a psychopath doesn't mean you're not affected. Hell, this man locking his child in a room has clear psychological issues!

I have also studied psychology.

So if your saying being mentally healthy is very rare, then your child who isn't left to CIO etc etc, will still most probably end up with some form of mental issue? Which ultimately means that whatever you do as a parent and however you decide to bring your child up, they is never going to be a right or wrong way. So lets just leave it at that. Some agree, others don't.