Vitamin K Injection

[Aidan's Mummy]

The austim threat is a load of rubbish sorry it is. Having studied child development in depth I can assure you a child is born with austim
xx

 

[winegums]

this may sound cruel but i'd rather give my son an injection and risk something like asthma than not give it and him die a slow and painful death

 

[Charlii Lou]

this may sound cruel but i'd rather give my son an injection and risk something like asthma than not give it and him die a slow and painful death

Same here

 

[lozzy21]

Having seen my dad go through menigitus twice id give anything to stop any one else from having to go through it. He only survived because he was a fully grown adult, it would have killed a baby or child in days.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

An example of what a child can contract if not immunsied


Pertussis
•Pertussis, or whooping cough, is most common in babies or teens or the elderly. Coughing is the most common symptom and can be so extreme that the patient's ribs may break. She may have problems breathing as well. This disease can lead to pneumonia, which further complicates the patient's status. Pertussis is airborne, which means that it can spread through the air pretty easily.

I agree with Lozzy menigtis is a disease that can send a child down hill rapidly
xx

 

[aob1013]

An example of what a child can contract if not immunsied


Pertussis
•Pertussis, or whooping cough, is most common in babies or teens or the elderly. Coughing is the most common symptom and can be so extreme that the patient's ribs may break. She may have problems breathing as well. This disease can lead to pneumonia, which further complicates the patient's status. Pertussis is airborne, which means that it can spread through the air pretty easily.

I agree with Lozzy menigtis is a disease that can send a child down hill rapidly
xx

OH had whooping cough as a baby, and nearly died ....... the pain his Mum went through, watching him nearly die

There is no way in HELL that is happening to me, i will do everything i can to prevent it.

 

[winegums]

my uncle had whooping cough and then got mumps, he was in pain for months and months before he died he was swollen up, couldn't move, tears rolling down his face with pain. I wouldn't want to see anyone go through what him and nan went through

 

[lozzy21]

I for one dont want to see these back as standard in our hospitals because people refuse to vaccinate against polio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iron_Lung_ward-Rancho_Los_Amigos_Hospital.gif

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

That is terrible aob and winegums. Thats why I feel it is vital that aidan has been vaccinated

That isn't nice lozzy. Don't want to see them in our hospitals at all
xx

 

[Rmar]

I actually had no idea this would turn into a vax debate. Probably because I have decided to view all vaccinations seperately. Sure, the idea is the same but no all vaccinations are created equally. Obviously, because they do separate things. That and I view the vit k as different than most other vaccinations.

Maybe it would benefit to look at each individually. It is a subject that takes many years to study and I have, so far, dedicated about 500 hours to it. Take your information wherever you can get it. Don't abandon a doctors advice for something you have read on the internet and don't abandon a doctors advice because of information you have gotten elsewhere. Go to more than just one doctor and seek a doctor that decides against vaccination to see what they can offer as well as the other side.

Look at facts and figures, anecdotes, anything that will aid you in feeling completely comfortable in your decision no matter what you end up deciding.

Going against the what others have said, I have had rubella, measels, whooping cough and chicken pox. I have never been gravely ill and did not end up in hospital. Yes, it can happen, but not always. There is definately a risk in not vaccinating. I can't question that. But does it outweigh the benefits? It's not my choice how you answer that question.

 

[KandyKinz]

There is certainly benefits and risks to each approach and I am still flumbling around on the fence in regards to my personal stance but here's my views so far.

First off, I do think this is an appropriate spot for this thread. Yes the vitamin K injection occurs after the birth but it is done just hours if not immediately following the birth so it's a decision that parents must make prenatally and many of us pregnant folks don't actually venture over to the parenting boards until after our little babes are born.

Secondly, the vitamin K injection works quite differently then other immunizations. Other immunizations trigger the immune system in attempts to create a relatively long lasting immunity to disease while vitamin K is used to supplements the babies already existent vitamin K supply to help the blood to clot and the protection is relatively short term.... until the baby begins producing their own vitamin K. {interesting but relatively useless fact, babies born vaginally produce vitamin K sooner, because they are more likely to come into contact with bacteria from their mother's anus ... Who knew that would be a good thing?!?! Another reason to lower those c-section rates...) Anyways back to vitamin k, essentially we are giving the baby more of what it already has... plus the additives they use in the formulation of the injection....

And yes there are different "types" of mercury. To date there is no study thus far to indicate that the type they are using is harmful..... But that doesn't mean that in 20 years they won't discover or confirm that what we were giving our babies was actually causing cancer or MS or Autism or ADD or Early Onset Alzheimer or the list goes on and on and on and on..... (note: there were studies that PROVED that links to cancer and autism existed... but then those studies were examined to be "faulty" and the associations were discredited.... Who was actually right.... Who knows???)

Also..... Babies are born with less then 50% of an adults vitamin K concentration.... So as the scientific humans we are, we have decided to fix that.... But I can't help but think that maybe there is a reason babies are born with low concentrations in vitamin K following birth? Perhaps it's crucial for their development in some way or another????? Yes, the babies do get a little vitamin K from the placenta, and a little vitamin K from breastmilk, but even if the mother has an excellent diet and supplements with vitamin K herself... those babies levels have still been shown to be deficient in vitamin k... again maybe's it's suppose to be that way??? Nature doesn't f*ck up that often!

Now onto risk factors... Yes prematurity, hypoxia, birth trauma, c-section and breastfeeding increase the chances the baby will suffer from hemorrhagic disease of the newborn it's important to note that in over 50% of cases there are NO RISK FACTORS.... Now that is the scary aspect of it all that bothers me. Thank god it's relatively rare.

Every study I have looked at states different incidences.. Likely due to the fact that there was a mass movement to give all newborns supplemental vitamin K prior to conducting adequate studies on the incidence of these bleeding conditions.... But anyways, the risk is about 1/10000-15000 if no vitamin K is given and about 1/100,000 -250,000 if vitamin K is given. Regardless of the "exact" numbers it is quite clear that this vitamin K supplementation is highly effective at preventing VKBD. (not like the GBS thing.... when antibiotics are not given babies have a 1/1000 chance of getting it... when antibiotics are given babis have a 1/2000 chance of getting it.... but I won't go there now....) back to vitamin K.

VKBD is a VERY scary thing. I thankfully have never met a baby who has experienced this and I have only ever had a handful of mothers refuse the injection but I did work with a midwife who once had a client who had a baby who experienced this and the results were fatal as they are in up to 30% of cases... And if death does not occur brain damage is likely. The midwife was EXTREMELY shaken by the experience and I think her tension had rubbed off on me a bit.

A little on my thoughts of oral doses... They are good in that they are less invasive and do not cause pain... And they are protective against vitamin k deficiency bleeding in comparison to giving no vitamin k at all, but they are approximatley 4 times less effective then their vitamin K injection counterpart even when compliance is perfect and the baby receives ALL of the doses of the vitamin K. It's suggested that they get atleast 3 doses, but there was one study in Denmark which gives babies oral vitamin k weekly until 3 months of age. Also of interest, there are some countries in which oral vitamin K is not even offered! Canada is one of them. The vitamin K they use has not been "tested" orally and therefore the fomulation they used is suppose to be for injection only. Some midwives will give this vitamin K orally, but they are not suppose to as it is not licenced to be admisisterd orally.

Last but not least... yes I do believe that health care providers go into the profession to help people... But I also believe that they are just regular people... And there are generally two types of people... One group who accepts the norms of society and conforms to what everyone else does, those are the type of "easy" clients who do not question their doctors or midwives recommendations they are also the type of clinical practioners that do not question their "college guidelines", do little research outside the box and just follow mainstream practice until a big "movement" tells them to do otherwise... Then there are the other group of people who analyze everything critically. They don't take everything to be written in stone and they do not conform to societals norms unless doing so is their preferred route. Those health care providers in this group tend to know that there is no hard and fast rule as to what the best plan of care is and they realize that medicine is constantly changing.. What they do now may not be the right thing tomorrow and that acknowlege that clients have every right to question current procedures and decide for themselves how to procede... Just food for thought.....

 

[KandyKinz]

I actually had no idea this would turn into a vax debate. Probably because I have decided to view all vaccinations seperately. Sure, the idea is the same but no all vaccinations are created equally. Obviously, because they do separate things. That and I view the vit k as different than most other vaccinations.

Maybe it would benefit to look at each individually. It is a subject that takes many years to study and I have, so far, dedicated about 500 hours to it. Take your information wherever you can get it. Don't abandon a doctors advice for something you have read on the internet and don't abandon a doctors advice because of information you have gotten elsewhere. Go to more than just one doctor and seek a doctor that decides against vaccination to see what they can offer as well as the other side.

Look at facts and figures, anecdotes, anything that will aid you in feeling completely comfortable in your decision no matter what you end up deciding.

Going against the what others have said, I have had rubella, measels, whooping cough and chicken pox. I have never been gravely ill and did not end up in hospital. Yes, it can happen, but not always. There is definately a risk in not vaccinating. I can't question that. But does it outweigh the benefits? It's not my choice how you answer that question.

I couldn't agree with you more!!!

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

There is certainly benefits and risks to each approach and I am still flumbling around on the fence in regards to my personal stance but here's my views so far.

First off, I do think this is an appropriate spot for this thread. Yes the vitamin K injection occurs after the birth but it is done just hours if not immediately following the birth so it's a decision that parents must make prenatally and many of us pregnant folks don't actually venture over to the parenting boards until after our little babes are born.

Secondly, the vitamin K injection works quite differently then other immunizations. Other immunizations trigger the immune system in attempts to create a relatively long lasting immunity to disease while vitamin K is used to supplements the babies already existent vitamin K supply to help the blood to clot and the protection is relatively short term.... until the baby begins producing their own vitamin K. {interesting but relatively useless fact, babies born vaginally produce vitamin K sooner, because they are more likely to come into contact with bacteria from their mother's anus ... Who knew that would be a good thing?!?! Another reason to lower those c-section rates...) Anyways back to vitamin k, essentially we are giving the baby more of what it already has... plus the additives they use in the formulation of the injection....

And yes there are different "types" of mercury. To date there is no study thus far to indicate that the type they are using is harmful..... But that doesn't mean that in 20 years they won't discover or confirm that what we were giving our babies was actually causing cancer or MS or Autism or ADD or Early Onset Alzheimer or the list goes on and on and on and on..... (note: there were studies that PROVED that links to cancer and autism existed... but then those studies were examined to be "faulty" and the associations were discredited.... Who was actually right.... Who knows???)

Also..... Babies are born with less then 50% of an adults vitamin K concentration.... So as the scientific humans we are, we have decided to fix that.... But I can't help but think that maybe there is a reason babies are born with low concentrations in vitamin K following birth? Perhaps it's crucial for their development in some way or another????? Yes, the babies do get a little vitamin K from the placenta, and a little vitamin K from breastmilk, but even if the mother has an excellent diet and supplements with vitamin K herself... those babies levels have still been shown to be deficient in vitamin k... again maybe's it's suppose to be that way??? Nature doesn't f*ck up that often!

Now onto risk factors... Yes prematurity, hypoxia, birth trauma, c-section and breastfeeding increase the chances the baby will suffer from hemorrhagic disease of the newborn it's important to note that in over 50% of cases there are NO RISK FACTORS.... Now that is the scary aspect of it all that bothers me. Thank god it's relatively rare.

Every study I have looked at states different incidences.. Likely due to the fact that there was a mass movement to give all newborns supplemental vitamin K prior to conducting adequate studies on the incidence of these bleeding conditions.... But anyways, the risk is about 1/10000-15000 if no vitamin K is given and about 1/100,000 -250,000 if vitamin K is given. Regardless of the "exact" numbers it is quite clear that this vitamin K supplementation is highly effective at preventing VKBD. (not like the GBS thing.... when antibiotics are not given babies have a 1/1000 chance of getting it... when antibiotics are given babis have a 1/2000 chance of getting it.... but I won't go there now....) back to vitamin K.

VKBD is a VERY scary thing. I thankfully have never met a baby who has experienced this and I have only ever had a handful of mothers refuse the injection but I did work with a midwife who once had a client who had a baby who experienced this and the results were fatal as they are in up to 30% of cases... And if death does not occur brain damage is likely. The midwife was EXTREMELY shaken by the experience and I think her tension had rubbed off on me a bit.

A little on my thoughts of oral doses... They are good in that they are less invasive and do not cause pain... And they are protective against vitamin k deficiency bleeding in comparison to giving no vitamin k at all, but they are approximatley 4 times less effective then their vitamin K injection counterpart even when compliance is perfect and the baby receives ALL of the doses of the vitamin K. It's suggested that they get atleast 3 doses, but there was one study in Denmark which gives babies oral vitamin k weekly until 3 months of age. Also of interest, there are some countries in which oral vitamin K is not even offered! Canada is one of them. The vitamin K they use has not been "tested" orally and therefore the fomulation they used is suppose to be for injection only. Some midwives will give this vitamin K orally, but they are not suppose to as it is not licenced to be admisisterd orally.

Last but not least... yes I do believe that health care providers go into the profession to help people... But I also believe that they are just regular people... And there are generally two types of people... One group who accepts the norms of society and conforms to what everyone else does, those are the type of "easy" clients who do not question their doctors or midwives recommendations they are also the type of clinical practioners that do not question their "college guidelines", do little research outside the box and just follow mainstream practice until a big "movement" tells them to do otherwise... Then there are the other group of people who analyze everything critically. They don't take everything to be written in stone and they do not conform to societals norms unless doing so is their preferred route. Those health care providers in this group tend to know that there is no hard and fast rule as to what the best plan of care is and they realize that medicine is constantly changing.. What they do now may not be the right thing tomorrow and that acknowlege that clients have every right to question current procedures and decide for themselves how to procede... Just food for thought.....

Oh I know that and I know not all cases of the disease these children can contract can be life threatening to each individaul child. Some many have no really adverse affects whereas others can deteroate radpidly. As a trainee health care proffessional and a mother I have done resarch coming out of my ears. Especially as the matter invovles something so important, my son. I can assure you I am very confident from hours of reading that the benifits do out weigh the risks. Medical science is always changing. Have a read of the nursing journal etc and you will see this. If a patheint ever questions an immunisation I will tell them my findings of my research. I will never 'conform' to my college books. And you will find MOST health proffessionals are like this as we are all encouraged to do our own research in to very single bit of medicine we will be taught


I just hope that in years to come I don't see an outbreak that could have easily been prevented. Like I said some children may not be adversly affected by some diseases but som will. And no one knows how any individual child will react.

Are you will to take that risk? Because after reading and reading and reading i am not. From a mothers point of view the benfits outweigh the risks by far IMO
xx

 

[marley2580]

Please remember that there are people on here that choose either to selectively vaccinate or to not vaccinate. We are respectful of people who choose to vaccinate, I don't think it's too much to ask for the reverse to be true.

Lozzy, it is extremely unlikely for Polio to ever make a comeback to this country as most cases were due to contaminated swimming pools and the chlorination of swimming pools stops that.

 

[aob1013]

Please remember that there are people on here that choose either to selectively vaccinate or to not vaccinate. We are respectful of people who choose to vaccinate, I don't think it's too much to ask for the reverse to be true.

Lozzy, it is extremely unlikely for Polio to ever make a comeback to this country as most cases were due to contaminated swimming pools and the chlorination of swimming pools stops that.

I agree, and being told we are 'pumping our children full of mercury' isn't nice either.

 

[Bex1p]

Please remember that there are people on here that choose either to selectively vaccinate or to not vaccinate. We are respectful of people who choose to vaccinate, I don't think it's too much to ask for the reverse to be true.

Lozzy, it is extremely unlikely for Polio to ever make a comeback to this country as most cases were due to contaminated swimming pools and the chlorination of swimming pools stops that.

I agree, and being told we are 'pumping our children full of mercury' isn't nice either.

You don't believe there is mercury in it so that statement doesn't apply to you. I meant for me, if I gave my baby them I would feel I could be pumping him full of mercury, at this moment in time, hopefully until I am satisfied with my findings and decide to go ahead...nobody else.

For just so much as asking peoples opinions I have gotten in response it is unfair not to vaccinate, I am making a fuss and made to feel that just researching means I am willing to be 'one of those people' that will help start an epidemic.

I just asked for views which I have gotten, i'm not anti vaccination and I dont think I will come to be....but it's also good to hear everyone elses reasons for and against as every little helps.

 

[aob1013]

I agree with you Bex, but the problem with this kinda thing on the forum is it brings out opinions not fact, kwim? Maybe it would help you more in your research to make an appointment with your MW or GP so they can give you fact, not just their opinion? Alot of people get emotional about this topic, so thats when fact/fiction gets a bit skewed x

 

[winegums]

Lozzy, it is extremely unlikely for Polio to ever make a comeback to this country as most cases were due to contaminated swimming pools and the chlorination of swimming pools stops that.

if people stop giving vaccinations it will be likely. not in our lifetime but maybe when our children have children.

Other countries still have polio. If everyone stops vaccinating then anyone who goes to other countries are at risk. If they contract it and bring it back. Even one little person. No one will be immune and everyone has a chance of contracting it. That's how these things spread and that's why they had to create vaccinations.

 

[Bex1p]

I agree with you Bex, but the problem with this kinda thing on the forum is it brings out opinions not fact, kwim? Maybe it would help you more in your research to make an appointment with your MW or GP so they can give you fact, not just their opinion? Alot of people get emotional about this topic, so thats when fact/fiction gets a bit skewed x

It would be brilliant to find a MW or GP that had all the facts and answers but alot of these people were quite happy to vaccinate pregnant women with the swine flu vaccination which allegedly caused alot of miscarriages, which obviously isnt their fault as they are just doing what they are told and that's what worrys me!

Saying that, I dont doubt there are alot who have done their own research but were do the facts that they have researched come from?

I must sound overly paranoid ha ha I'm not, but I do believe there is somehow more than meets the eye to alot of things involving governments, big pharma, money, control and power but thats a whole different story!

I just question everything and it definately seems i'm not the only one as all you ladies have also studied this....it's just taking me abit longer to come to a decision.

As for the vitamin k which is my primary concern as I have to make my choice within 3-5 weeks, eek, I think I will go with the oral form and my own diet unless there is a problem. I'd love to be able to just say yes give him the injection and not have to worry about it but that wouldnt be the case for me, i'm going to worry either way (as we all do) and as you say, this is why emotions run high on the subject...I didnt quite expect to start all this though! Ha ha definately got more than I bargained for!

Abit OT but another thing thats come to my attention is when the cutting of the umbilical cord. Baby benefits from not having it cut until after the cord has stopped pulsing so why had I never heard of this before? I feel like they dont tell us anything! Its really quite sad

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Ithink everyone in this thread has been respectful

I was stating a fact. If people continue to not have vaccinations in our childrens or childrens childrens life time, diseases that were erased will come back

ETA: Becki hun if you ask most will tell you. If they don't they are not doing their job properly
xx