What are your views on buying clothes from companies with factories in Bangladesh?

[bluebell]

The tragic collapse of the factory in Bangladesh has really upset me I feel in some ways I have to take some responsibility for this as I have bought clothes from shops like Primark / H&M in the past

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22296645

https://www.labourbehindthelabel.org/

I guess I knew deep down that in order to buy a top for as little as £2, the conditions of the workers would not be good but by not thinking about it, I was able to live with this decision. Since hearing about this horrendous accident and loss of life I have really been thinking about this a lot. I know I am only one person but I have decided from now on, I will only buy clothes from ethical retailers, although from looking and researching on line there don't seem to be many.

It just got me thinking, what do other people think? Do you think we in Western Society should collectively take some responsibility and refuse to buy from retailers that have no clear policy on the safety of their workers? Or does the responsibility for this tragedy lay firmly with the factory owners / industry retailers?

xx

 

[NellyLou]

It's a difficult one.... These poor people work in these awful conditions because they need the work and need the money. I wonder what they would do for work if people like us didn't buy their items. Something definitely needs to be done to take care of them though... Enforces building codes, someone to advocate for employee, and better pay etc. Its just so sad.

 

[emyandpotato]

To the above comment (not picking on you by the way!); a lot of people assume that without the aid of Primark millions in third world countries would be in even worse situations. Thing is, though, you can exploit without taking it to the total extreme. Okay, that sounds truly terrible I know, but what I mean is that in MOST cases (highlighting that as I know it isn't true of everything, I'm sure someone can find statistics that say that Topshop has factories that pay the same and have equal conditions to those of Primark) the more expensive high street stores and designer stores do have better conditions for their workers. It doesn't make it okay that they are exploited, but they aren't treated nearly as badly as those who work for Asda, for example. I understand the pull of shopping in such places but I don't think that it is right, and I very rarely buy anything from there, or in fact any highstreet stores. Thing is, you may be poor in first world terms, but it is very rare that someone truly 'needs' to shop in such places, as enticing as the prices are.

 

[Sarahkka]

I did one of my major university papers on the export processing zones of Asia and you bet I think twice about where my clothing comes from. I try to shop with a social and environmental conscience and I do research companies. I am certainly not perfect, but I do try to vote with my dollar.
As for culpability, yes, I do think that if we are connected to the product as a consumer, we should be recognizing our role in the chain and taking responsibility for that. It is not hard at all to find out ethical info on major companies. It is our responsibility to demand fair trade and treatment and sustainable practises.
As for the tired old argument of "if I don't support these massively exploitative companies, those poor workers won't even have jobs"? Nope. Not even close. Those corporate profit margins can easily afford to pay for safe, equitable working conditions. They may threaten that they are going to shut up shop and go exploit someone else, but it's unlikely. It's almost always cheaper for them to simply implement fair practises. Think about it - shutting down, scouting, re-locating, building, re-establishing export systems and relationships, training a new work force, etc, etc, etc. That is VERY costly. You would have to make huge huge profits at the new place to make that worthwhile.
So yes, it does matter where we shop and what we buy. Put pressure on those companies to pay fair wages. Be willing to pay a few dollars more per item because human rights and fair treatment is something we all care about. They will get the message.

 

[Sarahkka]

To the above comment (not picking on you by the way!); a lot of people assume that without the aid of Primark millions in third world countries would be in even worse situations. Thing is, though, you can exploit without taking it to the total extreme. Okay, that sounds truly terrible I know, but what I mean is that in MOST cases (highlighting that as I know it isn't true of everything, I'm sure someone can find statistics that say that Topshop has factories that pay the same and have equal conditions to those of Primark) the more expensive high street stores and designer stores do have better conditions for their workers. It doesn't make it okay that they are exploited, but they aren't treated nearly as badly as those who work for Asda, for example. I understand the pull of shopping in such places but I don't think that it is right, and I very rarely buy anything from there, or in fact any highstreet stores. Thing is, you may be poor in first world terms, but it is very rare that someone truly 'needs' to shop in such places, as enticing as the prices are.

 

[Sarahkka]

One more thing on this issue: it has been my experience that when I pay significantly more money for a top from a company like Patagonia, for example, I get far more wear out of it than I do from the cheap stuff. That cheap price also comes from using lousy materials. It truly isn't worth the money, even if it is only $5 for a T-shirt. I have items from Patagonia that cost a couple of hundred dollars, but which I still have and use 20 years later.
We need to be doing sustainability math when we shop!

 

[Piper84]

This particular supplier apparently worked with H&M, Matalan, Mango and a load of other shops here in Germany.

I personally haven't bought anything from Primark for years, since a t-shirt I bought was destroyed in the washing machine on a normal, 40° wash. I have bought stuff from H&M though and notice when stuff is made in Bangladesh.

It's a massive problem. We crave the convenience and the high street pushes prices right down to compete with rivals. I think the only solution is government regulation on the rights of workers who work for suppliers which supply our companies.

I just try to do my bit by getting a lot of LO's stuff second hand, so by not putting anything into their pockets, but I buy the odd new thing too:S

 

[Kate&Lucas]

I'm actually surprised they supplied to H&M - didn't they have a whole thing about being ethical?

I've honestly no idea how it works with clothing factories. I'll hold my hands up and admit I've always been one of these people who justifies it with "where else will these people work?". But I've no idea of the conditions.
I struggle to find clothes for myself (I can think of about 6 shops off the top of my head that I can get clothes in my size - three of them are supermarkets), so I'm pretty much if it fits and looks okay, I'll buy it. I buy most things on eBay really, and make clothes for me and Lucas now and then (but then, if I'm not using old clothing scraps to make them, I don't know where the fabric I've bought originated either).

The Bangladesh building collapse is devastating. There are some images that will just never leave your mind. It has definitely got me considering more ethical sources for our clothing.

 

[Piper84]

I noticed that too, so I think maybe they're branching out to test the waters. I know TopShop now has a "Made in the UK" range, and the stuff is more expensive, but I honestly don't mind paying more and having less. I have far too many clothes anyway to be honest.

 

[Tiff]

I work in a kid's clothing store, they've recently been taking measures to make sure that their imports etc don't come from mandated child labour. They are far from perfect though but I'm happy to see that through small steps they are getting in the right direction.

I agree with Sarah too, the higher quality stuff that I buy from reputable companies last me FAR longer than the crap at the discount stores.

 

[Foogirl]

Don't be fooled. Your Gap t-shirt comes from a sweatshop, just as pretty much every other high street retailer does.

Gap charge you £15 for that t-shirt, Primark charge you £2. They pretty much pay the same price for its production, so who is the bigger rip-off merchant?

Primark do have a very extensive programme of vetting and checking their factories, they only do business with those who pass their checks. And if anyone is found to be flouting them, they are removed from the supply chain. As with anything, a company can only do so much. What bothers me is why these are all made out to be "Primark" stories. They are the only retailer doing anything successfully just now, pretty much and because of this their competitors, the media, the public in general seem to want to pull them down. The Panorama documentary at the very beginning mentioned "Primark...and some other high street stores" It went on only to re-inforce Primark's name. It was subsequently made to apologise basically for making up footage.

The news of this fire broke and within an hour it was being labelled a Primark story. It has taken days for it to emerge who the others in the block were. Why would that be?

This really bothers me because so many other retailers use the same supply chain or one similar, but as consumers its harder to find this out. People think they are shopping ethically just because they avoid Primark and the truth is they really aren't

 

[Piper84]

Here's a list of suppliers for various brands from the International Textile, Garment and Leather Workers' Federation https://www.itglwf.org/lang/en/factories-list.html if anyone's interested.

 

[emyandpotato]

Don't be fooled. Your Gap t-shirt comes from a sweatshop, just as pretty much every other high street retailer does.

Gap charge you £15 for that t-shirt, Primark charge you £2. They pretty much pay the same price for its production, so who is the bigger rip-off merchant?

Primark do have a very extensive programme of vetting and checking their factories, they only do business with those who pass their checks. And if anyone is found to be flouting them, they are removed from the supply chain. As with anything, a company can only do so much. What bothers me is why these are all made out to be "Primark" stories. They are the only retailer doing anything successfully just now, pretty much and because of this their competitors, the media, the public in general seem to want to pull them down. The Panorama documentary at the very beginning mentioned "Primark...and some other high street stores" It went on only to re-inforce Primark's name. It was subsequently made to apologise basically for making up footage.

The news of this fire broke and within an hour it was being labelled a Primark story. It has taken days for it to emerge who the others in the block were. Why would that be?

This really bothers me because so many other retailers use the same supply chain or one similar, but as consumers its harder to find this out. People think they are shopping ethically just because they avoid Primark and the truth is they really aren't

This isn't true. Although Gap et al do use sweat shops and exploit workers, the vast majority of sweat shops AND the ones with the worst conditions have been proven to be supermarket chains and Primark. The top three shops for the worst conditions and the most workers exploited? Asda-Walmart, Tesco, Primark. I'm not saying Topshop isn't unethical and that changes don't need to be made all across the high street but the worst perpetrators are definitely those who can sell you a pair of jeans for £3.

 

[bumpy_j]

To be honest, there is a lot of dishonesty within ALL price ranges. I try to save up for ethical clothes but it is out of my price range currently so now I buy second hand nearly every time instead. Ive always said Primark just have more honest prices in relation to how much they pay their workers. Calvin Klein and AandF are two companies that are just as culpable for using this sort of labour. I think its dangerous to only get angry at specific companies when the industry as a whole is dire. A more powerful message would be to remove yourself from the market entirely. Buy used clothes or new and ethical you can afford it.

 

[bumpy_j]

If anyone is interested here is a great list of unethical companies: https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts/boycottslist.aspx

And specifically on clothes

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/buyersguides/clothing.aspx

 

[Foogirl]

This isn't true.

umm. it is true. As you well know because your next sentence is

Although Gap et al do use sweat shops and exploit workers,

I'm confused, are you saying there are degrees of exploitation? That Gap et al are somehow better because they only use a little bit of exploitation? That we should shout loudly about Tesco, Walmart and Primark, because they exploit more?

I'm afraid that seems a little bizarre to me. Any organisation using slave labour and exploiting anyone is doing a bad thing. There are no degrees of bad in this.

 

[Button#]

The reason primark sell cheaper clothes is to do with the quantity they purchase. Most of the high street stores use the same suppliers, same fabrics, same factories etc but primark will buy 5000 units of an item whereas other companies will buy 500 so they get better deals.

 

[emyandpotato]

This isn't true.

umm. it is true. As you well know because your next sentence is

Although Gap et al do use sweat shops and exploit workers,

I'm confused, are you saying there are degrees of exploitation? That Gap et al are somehow better because they only use a little bit of exploitation? That we should shout loudly about Tesco, Walmart and Primark, because they exploit more?

I'm afraid that seems a little bizarre to me. Any organisation using slave labour and exploiting anyone is doing a bad thing. There are no degrees of bad in this.

Bloody hell I've said this twice now. No exploitation is okay obviously but by far the worst exploiters are those mentioned. Generally- and like I said in my first post I am sure there are exceptions to the rule- shops that charge more for their clothes DO exploit workers but conditions for such workers are better and wages are higher. So yes there are degrees of exploitation, obviously. Of course it's still bad, like I said. Twice.

 

[Foogirl]

So why distinguish between the two? It's still exploitation and believe me, the sweatshops used by designer labels are no better.

 

[Tiff]

Obviously exploitation is bad 100%, but you can't take on every single case right off the bat. I'd probably want to put more pressure on companies with the bar none horrific standards versus the companies that say still exploit their workers by having them work longer hours?

I'm not sure if that's making sense. I'd want pressure on ALL of them, but I'd absolutely go after the harshest conditions first.

At least, that's how I took emy's post.