What are your views on buying clothes from companies with factories in Bangladesh?

[emyandpotato]

So why distinguish between the two? It's still exploitation and believe me, the sweatshops used by designer labels are no better.

Because you have to start somewhere. There's a difference between a pathetic wage of say £2 a day (an almost liveable wage in some places) for adults and child labour at 60p a day in terrible conditions. Neither is okay, of course, but does one not stand out as much worse to you? Not to mention that the fact that such places are so cheap means that they're immensely popular and there is a great deal more exploitation coming from such sources. I never said "oh Topshop is wonderful it doesn't exploit workers let's all shop there". I think it's policies and ethics for workers here and abroad is terrible, but I was saying that from the research I've done and the facts I have to hand, I believe Primark and supermarket chains to be worse. Although the difference between a £7 price tag at one shop and a £35 price tag at another does mean a great deal more profit to the brand with the larger price tag, it also means slightly better conditions for the workers.

The bit I have bolded is what you don't seem to get. It has been proven that on the whole they are better, however marginally. That is my point.

 

[Piper84]

I think the more attention is brought to the worst offenders, the more likely it is that a) other brands will take note and try to improve their records or b) legislation is passed assuring a living wage and safe labour conditions are pledged to western companies using third world suppliers (or suppliers who flout the regulations in sweatshops in Europe, the US, etc.)

 

[bumpy_j]

I want to agree with you Amy because you are right to a degree. You are correct that out of the high-street chains, Primark and supermarket brands score marginally lower than the rest (with George scoring 0!). But one of the biggest controversies is the highest-end of the price spectrum.

For example, many designer brands actually score worse than the supermarket/cheap high street brands when analysed over ethics. Some crucial factors are that they refuse to say where their materials are sourced from and do not attempt to get endorsements by ethical watchdogs. Animal Cruelty is also far more relevant due to the use of fur.

Look at Marc Jacobs for example:

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/scoredetails.aspx?ProductId=560738

And contrast with Primark

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/scoredetails.aspx?ProductId=275708

Both make glaringly awful judgements with their ethical code and yet Primark still scores a whole two points higher than Marc Jacobs, Louis Vuitton, Kenzo, Givenchy, Fendi, Pucci and Celine. Stella McCartney actually scores the same!

It is difficult as Fairtrade, Organic clothes are expensive (understandably) and it is ingrained in all of us to have a 'wardrobe' of clothes rather than a selection of a few basics. Additionally, clothes are not built to last anymore so many people feel reluctant to buy second-hand as often clothes can start to shink, de-thread and look ultimately tatty after even a couple of washes. It's now strange to look back at a time where clothes were made locally, people were encouraged to make their own clothes and women would only have one or two going out dresses but it wasn't even that long ago. Sadly, I struggle to see how we're going to tackle this level of globalization. All one can really do is try to get out of the loop as much as they can.

 

[tina3747]

What about the middle men? They're just as culpable as the huge profit making western companies like asda and primark.... The owners of businesses that employ the workers are probably sat in their huge houses, a long way from the shit holes theses poor people have to live in. Obviously it starts from the top to to make change, but they're just as responsible.
Scary when you think of the often over zealous health and safety laws we have over here what these people have to endure.

 

[emyandpotato]

I want to agree with you Amy because you are right to a degree. You are correct that out of the high-street chains, Primark and supermarket brands score marginally lower than the rest (with George scoring 0!). But one of the biggest controversies is the highest-end of the price spectrum.

For example, many designer brands actually score worse than the supermarket/cheap high street brands when analysed over ethics. Some crucial factors are that they refuse to say where their materials are sourced from and do not attempt to get endorsements by ethical watchdogs. Animal Cruelty is also far more relevant due to the use of fur.

Look at Marc Jacobs for example:

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/scoredetails.aspx?ProductId=560738

And contrast with Primark

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/scoredetails.aspx?ProductId=275708

Both make glaringly awful judgements with their ethical code and yet Primark still scores a whole two points higher than Marc Jacobs, Louis Vuitton, Kenzo, Givenchy, Fendi, Pucci and Celine. Stella McCartney actually scores the same!

It is difficult as Fairtrade, Organic clothes are expensive (understandably) and it is ingrained in all of us to have a 'wardrobe' of clothes rather than a selection of a few basics. Additionally, clothes are not built to last anymore so many people feel reluctant to buy second-hand as often clothes can start to shink, de-thread and look ultimately tatty after even a couple of washes. It's now strange to look back at a time where clothes were made locally, people were encouraged to make their own clothes and women would only have one or two going out dresses but it wasn't even that long ago. Sadly, I struggle to see how we're going to tackle this level of globalization. All one can really do is try to get out of the loop as much as they can.

That totally baffles me about the designer brands (I can't see your sources by the way, link doesn't work). I mean I knew they weren't ethical but I am shocked they're rating worse than George et al (unless it includes animal cruelty, in which case it makes perfect sense). I got a tonne of my info from a module I did at uni which blatantly stated in the course book that the top three companies that have the worst conditions and most exploited workers were the ones I mentioned earlier. The whole thing intrigued me so I read a great deal in to it and a lot of other sources stated the same thing. Not that it's okay either way. I was looking at my wedding dress the other day and noticing that it was probably made in a factory abroad and then given the crazy price tag- thank goodness it was second hand!

I think the only issue with buying ethical clothes is that people want a certain look. Buying in to a brand lifestyle is probably the biggest culprit (Jack Wills etc). I mean, I shop at second hand places, vintage stores, Etsy- for handmade and vintage, Ebay, and Vestaire Collective for nicer things. I get most of Rory's stuff made for the price of Next things (granted not Primark, but whatever), so it's totally doable if you don't need a new outfit every week and if you don't need to buy in to every single trend.

 

[bumpy_j]

That's weird, i'll try to find some alternate links x

 

[bumpy_j]

Does this work?

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/buyersguides/clothing/designerclothing.aspx

Designer

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/buyersguides/clothing/clothesshops.aspx

High Street

 

[bubbles123]

Just read on the BBC news web site app (am on my phone so can't post a link) that Primark are paying compensation and providing financial support to the victims who worked for their suppliers. So that is something.
Hopefully, better building codes and building safety inspections will come out of this.

 

[emyandpotato]

Yeah they do Jessica, will read now!

 

[emyandpotato]

Reading those links is pretty shocking! I don't even know what to think now as it looks pretty accurate though it's at total odds with the info I got at uni, which granted didn't mention designer brands but it did say Primark was in the bottom three, which it isn't here. It's sickening how many designer brands are so expensive and yet have zero ratings for people & politics

 

[emyandpotato]

Also, Tesco FAIR TRADE clothing rating at 3? How is this even allowed?

 

[bumpy_j]

The Stella McCartney one really got to me - protesters shot in Cambodia, no animal testing policy in place. I always thought it was one of the more ethical companies out there!

 

[emyandpotato]

Me too. I find it a little hypocritical that she is very much against the use of leather but has a zero for her treatment of people. I mean, she can't need the money, and it isn't as if designer companies get by on their low prices.

 

[Foogirl]

I think the more attention is brought to the worst offenders, the more likely it is that a) other brands will take note and try to improve their records or b) legislation is passed assuring a living wage and safe labour conditions are pledged to western companies using third world suppliers (or suppliers who flout the regulations in sweatshops in Europe, the US, etc.)

See, I disagree with this. I think if only the cheaper places, and Primark in particular are constantly in the headlines, other retailers are glad the attention is elsewhere and until they start being in the spotlight, they will simply think they've dodged a bullet. Primark are always the whipping boy in these types of stories, if I were marks and spencer, why would I bother checking my suppliers?

 

[bumpy_j]

I agree Foogirl; it's like McDonalds. They have the worst rep by far yet they have done so much more to try to clean up their image due to that whereas other fast food chains can use that reputation as a scapegoat. I'm sure Burger King would be feeling the pressure a lot more of McDonalds was suddenly disbanded and transformed into some Vegan whole food falafel chain.

 

[Foogirl]

I agree Foogirl; it's like McDonalds. They have the worst rep by far yet they have done so much more to try to clean up their image due to that whereas other fast food chains can use that reputation as a scapegoat. I'm sure Burger King would be feeling the pressure a lot more of McDonalds was suddenly disbanded and transformed into some Vegan whole food falafel chain.

Absolutely. It's ironic they have such a bad reputation and yet they are pretty much the only food retailer not affected by the horse meat scandal because they have full traceability of all their products and they are locally sourced and produced. Tesco have taken a huge amount of the flak for the horsemeat thing and are still synonymous with the scandal, and yet pretty much anyone selling burgers is flogging a horse.

 

[bluebell]

Thanks for the links Bumpy_j, they make for pretty shocking reading but its really helpful to see the more ethical retailers. This is definitely going to make me more aware of what I'm buying and where from, I'm going to take a look at etsy too for handmade clothes

xx

 

[emyandpotato]

P.S. ASOS Marketplace too, vintage and handmade

 

[Piper84]

I think the more attention is brought to the worst offenders, the more likely it is that a) other brands will take note and try to improve their records or b) legislation is passed assuring a living wage and safe labour conditions are pledged to western companies using third world suppliers (or suppliers who flout the regulations in sweatshops in Europe, the US, etc.)

See, I disagree with this. I think if only the cheaper places, and Primark in particular are constantly in the headlines, other retailers are glad the attention is elsewhere and until they start being in the spotlight, they will simply think they've dodged a bullet. Primark are always the whipping boy in these types of stories, if I were marks and spencer, why would I bother checking my suppliers?

Why else would places like H&M and Topshop start ethical clothing lines?

On another point, KFC has also started claiming the accountability and happiness of its chickens.

 

[bumpy_j]

Mm but marketers aren't dumb - there has been a lot on ecology, fair trade and workers rights in the news over the last few years. As a whole, people are starting to question where their products come from and if somewhere like Primark improves their working conditions, then it might be fair to assume the companies that charge more than Primark have improved theirs too. With Primark bearing the brunt of it, as a default people will always see it as a sliding scale that corresponds with price.