Would you trust the h1n1 shot after this...

[KandyKinz]

One thing I just found out about Modafinil is that it stimulates dopamine levels in the brain which can have the potential to reduce prolactin secretion which in turn can reduce milk production so if it is safe enough to breastfeed on that medication it's important to keep an eye on milk supply.

 

[lisaf]

Thanks... its so tough because all the information out there is that there is no evidence one way or the other as far as pregnancy goes...just some animal studies where rats given 14X the maximum dose that humans take did show increased rates of birth defects... but what does that tell me if I'm taking a minimal dose?
There's even less information on breastfeeding... apparently they don't even know if it comes through the breastmilk... I read that somewhere but can't find it now of course.

(I found one website that definitively said provigil is no safe for pregnancy... cited no studies whatsoever... so I clicked on 'about us' and the site was written by a guy with no medical credentials who is a pharmacology student, likes mountain biking, Southpark and eating Crispy Chicking from KFC..... and that is literally ALL it said about him... reallllllll professional!!)

I keep seeing women who decided to stay on the medication saying they are having perfectly normal, healthy pregnancies, but of course they don't have the time to come up and update everything once they give birth, lol I've never heard of a single case of a birth defect from a woman on my drug.

 

[KandyKinz]

And I just read in my Hale "Medications and Mother's Milk" book that Modafinil is considered to have a risk of L4 meaning "possibly hazardous - There is a positive evidence of risk to a breastfed infant or to breastmilk production but hte benefits from use in breastfeeding mothers may be acceptable despite the risk to the infant (eg. if the drug is needed in a life threatening situation or for a serious disease for which safer drugs cannot be used or are ineffective)

Then it goes on to state that there have been no concerns regarding the breastfed infant reported and that the mother should be observed for reduced milk supply....

I wonder if the reason they list it as a L4 is primarily because of the milk supply issue and not because of any potential risks to the baby... Because if there was a concern (even speculated concern) for baby they would have documented it.....

And milk supply issues can usually be easily fixed whether it just be through breastfeeding technique or with herbs (blessed thistle and fenugreek) or with medication (domperidone)

Anyways, my book is from 2004 and I believe there is definitly a newer edition or two... Hopefully Jack Newman will be able to provide you with some newer research.

 

[KandyKinz]

And yes it does pass through into breastmilk in decent amounts because it is lipid soluble and has a small molecular weight.... No studies on what the effects that has on baby though and there's been none reported.

 

[lisaf]

I can't thank you enough, that is very interesting and I'm so glad there is at least SOMETHING out there. I emailed the Dr. and will let you know what he tells me!

I know its not a 'lifesaving' drug... except that if I drive when I'm not on it, I could die in a car crash... there are women who hire help and just nap their way through their pregnancy etc... I can't afford that... nor do I want to sleep away the first year of my child's life, lose my job etc... just not an option... I feel guilty though and wish they would gather information on all the women who DID take this drug... why don't they do that?

 

[KandyKinz]

That's a very good question and they certainly should do that.... But it would cost alot of money to implement those kind of studies....

But in reality I think it is certainly possible to create such a database.... If all doctors and obs placed all of the patients data on one database throughout a person's lifetime just imagine what what we would learn! We'd gain so much information about meds and the effects of different dosages and potential birth defects.... as well as the true risks of immunizations and the percentage of people who do not keep their immunity.... and wow there would just be so much to gain from that!

 

[KandyKinz]

I remember when I became pregnant with my daughter I was freaked out throughout the entire pregnancy because I had taken Tylonal 3 a few days post ovulation and there were no human studies done on it even it's a very common pain med and from what I googled tons and tons and tons of women have taken it in pregnancy... It's a category C based on studies on rats.... When the rats received HUGE doses of the stuff there was an increase in birth defects... But like you said.... How the hell does that relate to a human who has only taken the minimal dose?

 

[lisaf]

I know the FDA won't allow studies on pregnant women if animal studies show issues... but a database would be pricesless... wish I had the money/resources to try and get something like that started or at least lobby for it, lol!!! Heck, you think the drug companies would pay for it since it could save them some money on running their own studies or help them avoid lawsuits... though of course they wouldn't have control over it so they would never go for it *sigh*

Thanks again for all your help, lol.. I definitely owe you on this! If you need any knitted baby blankets, let me know

 

[KandyKinz]

I know the FDA won't allow studies on pregnant women if animal studies show issues... but a database would be pricesless... wish I had the money/resources to try and get something like that started or at least lobby for it, lol!!! Heck, you think the drug companies would pay for it since it could save them some money on running their own studies or help them avoid lawsuits... though of course they wouldn't have control over it so they would never go for it *sigh*

Thanks again for all your help, lol.. I definitely owe you on this! If you need any knitted baby blankets, let me know

Lobbying sounds like alot of work and I'm not too sure that the drug companies would want to be involved as such a comprehensive database would likely be HUGE liability for alot of them as it would likely link their meds to alot of adverse effects and it would also compare their medications with competitors.... which would be good for some and awful for others.... Pharmaceutical companies prefer to do studies that benefit their own company....

Anyways, I don't need any knitted baby blankets but I do need to learn to knit

 

[lisaf]

I know the FDA won't allow studies on pregnant women if animal studies show issues... but a database would be pricesless... wish I had the money/resources to try and get something like that started or at least lobby for it, lol!!! Heck, you think the drug companies would pay for it since it could save them some money on running their own studies or help them avoid lawsuits... though of course they wouldn't have control over it so they would never go for it *sigh*

Thanks again for all your help, lol.. I definitely owe you on this! If you need any knitted baby blankets, let me know

Lobbying sounds like alot of work and I'm not too sure that the drug companies would want to be involved as such a comprehensive database would likely be HUGE liability for alot of them as it would likely link their meds to alot of adverse effects and it would also compare their medications with competitors.... which would be good for some and awful for others.... Pharmaceutical companies prefer to do studies that benefit their own company....

Anyways, I don't need any knitted baby blankets but I do need to learn to knit

Hmm, I've taught about 15 people to knit... but never over the internet... I'm game if you are?

 

[dannyboygirl]

that fenugreek makes you smell like cinnamon I hated that smell of syrup.i started noticing my daughter smelling of it too and i stopped.fresh water is good enough for me and foods to keep up my supply.

 

[dannyboygirl]

I can croquetspelling error not knit though

 

[lisaf]

I have tried and tried to understand crochet... I just can't wrap my head around it, lol.
I love croquet though

 

[KandyKinz]

I know the FDA won't allow studies on pregnant women if animal studies show issues... but a database would be pricesless... wish I had the money/resources to try and get something like that started or at least lobby for it, lol!!! Heck, you think the drug companies would pay for it since it could save them some money on running their own studies or help them avoid lawsuits... though of course they wouldn't have control over it so they would never go for it *sigh*

Thanks again for all your help, lol.. I definitely owe you on this! If you need any knitted baby blankets, let me know

Lobbying sounds like alot of work and I'm not too sure that the drug companies would want to be involved as such a comprehensive database would likely be HUGE liability for alot of them as it would likely link their meds to alot of adverse effects and it would also compare their medications with competitors.... which would be good for some and awful for others.... Pharmaceutical companies prefer to do studies that benefit their own company....

Anyways, I don't need any knitted baby blankets but I do need to learn to knit

Hmm, I've taught about 15 people to knit... but never over the internet... I'm game if you are?

Definitly!

 

[KandyKinz]

that fenugreek makes you smell like cinnamon I hated that smell of syrup.i started noticing my daughter smelling of it too and i stopped.fresh water is good enough for me and foods to keep up my supply.

I've never had anyone describe it as cinnamon before.... I also thought it made people smell like curry! That's how I judged whether they were taking enough of it lol.... If you can walk into their house and be overwhelmed by the smell you know it's all good!

Personally though, if you can pull of breastfeeding with just your boobs and baby with no accessories or supplements (and most women can...) you should do just that....

 

[dannyboygirl]

oops I use to crochet braids into my hair too.Im pretty good with that

 

[blutea]

Hey Blutea - so I checked out the link you sent me. I guess I'm turned off when it seems like a sales pitch or based so much on anecdotal evidence. I googled the Dr who wrote it and he's a famous veterinarian? He has a PhD but is not an MD. I find it hard to take advice from someone who doesn't specialize in human medicine. However, I understand that someone who was educated within the 'system' will probably drink the koolaide when it comes to vaccines.

I was open to learning about the anti-vaccine movement but it is full of so much half-truth, or unfounded or disproven theories that its hard for me to trust almost anything I read from that side of the arguement. I do believe in scrutinizing the vaccines I get or am offered for my children.

My understanding is that whooping cough is mutating because its had a recurrance in the first place which is because people stopped vaccinating? Thats how I understood it...

I think this is an important discussion for us to have, and disagreeing is good for everyone because it causes discussion.

I worry about breastfeeding because I won't be able to unless I stop the medication I need to function
I hear all the benefits, but know its not really a choice for me I also know I was breastfed and am very healthy, but my sister was breastfed, and my brother was breastfed and has always been sickly as a child and now has a debilitating disease as an adult.
My mom once mentioned they were developing a vaccine for pregnant woman to prevent their children from getting the disease my sister died from, I haven't told my mom I'm pregnant yet and don't know if this vaccine is available or proven safe, but I know I'll want it if it will prevent me from losing a child like my mom did.

I brought up my sister because I am so afraid of losing my child to disease. I saw it first-hand and what it did to the family and just have a very strong fear of it. It scares me more than the side effects from vaccines.

This discussion has been great! I just wanted to point out that I gave that link even though it is about animals because our bodies are very similar to other living breathing creatures. Like it was pointed out ealier, drug companies are not willing to do vaccine research for humans and so this research has defaulted on animals. Sad but true. It does advertise a book but the majority of the site is for informational purposes. It's a great resource. Your medication is kind of ironic...no studies to prove if it's safe during breastfeeding and it's the same with vaccines.

 

[lisaf]

Your medication is kind of ironic...no studies to prove if it's safe during breastfeeding and it's the same with vaccines.

Good point about the irony there... most sources are admant about not taking the medication during pregnancy or BF because the risks are unknown. I'm willing to take that unknown risk with the medication and pregnancy as I don't have much of a choice ... same as I'm willing to take the risk with vaccines.
With BFing though, I know formula isn't as good as breast milk... but it might be safer. Its not really known and I have to figure it out. At least with BFing I have an alternative option.
I don't feel that safe without the vaccines... again my call though, lol... you clearly find the unknown of the vaccines scarier.

 

[blutea]

Also, it's my understanding that whooping cough is mutating due to the vaccine strain. More people are being injected with this viral protein than are contracting the actual illness. However, this could happen with the wild strains as well, just like the flu virus mutates every year. This is NOT due to people not vaccinating, that's just media hype.

 

[JaniceT]

To me the concept of having an influenza jab is completely alien, I've only ever heard of elderly people being offered it. I wonder why it's so common in North America compared to here (Europe)? What about other countries? I remember my sister in Australia saying they had to have chicken pox jabs before going to school - totally bizarre!

I share some of your same thoughts on this. When I lived in USA for several years, there was a drug for everything and so easily precribed. Whatever happened to giving the human body a chance to build up its immunity?

There are vaccines readily available where I am now but it's not extensively used. Chicken pox and measles are seen as a childhood phase and accepted that way. The common flu is a 7-day illness that sometimes goes away by itself. Antibiotics is not blatantly used when possible.