A group for TTC#1 and had more than one loss?

Patiently - I didn't realise we are the same age, I also started ttc when I was 22 and have recently turned 24. I know it was upsetting what your dh said but think of it as he is probably as confused, frusterated and lost as you are. He probably knew it would hurt you but he needed to express what he was feeling too. Men have so little say in all this and their thoughts and feelings are usually the last thing we or others think about.
Try not to be to hard on yourself hun, I often think this is never going to happen and it's so hard. But it's out of our hands and it's not our fault at all. I could blame the extra 10kgs or the cigarette I had during my tww or anything else really. Ferility is 50-50 and so much of the time there is no reason. I fortunetly know the reason I lost my 2nd baby but it's just a horrible thing that happens.

Welcome everyone else.
those stats/ theory were good. i couldn't read the study tho :(. It's incredible the age range on here and we are all battling the same thing.

Ladyfog - yay for feeling sick. I don't know about u or anyone else but I would throw up and be nausea's several times a day just to be reassured. Sick is good hun. Can't wait for more updates.

Afm - cd11. ovulation is still a few more days away going to keep bding every second day and just try not think about it to much. I'm trying to see the silver lining to every situation and pregnancy announcement. It's my goal for the month no but why her and not me. You never know the journey to where people are and worthiness has nothing to do with fertility.

I'm really busy at work so sorry if I have missed a lot. thinking of you all
 
Blimey, this thread moves fast. Apologies for not keeping up with everyone individually but there's just too many!

:howdy: Welcome Beachchica & Filipenko :hi:

RM & Ladyfog - you are both in my thoughts, really hoping this is it for you both - your forever babies :cloud9:

I'm in a strange mood lately. Limboland sucks!
Can't TTC as no +OPK and AF is still AWOL. I thought I would enjoy not having to TTC and I suppose I did for a week or so, but now I'm ready to get back into it and feeling frustrated!!
 
NTAL, hope AF arrives soon but try not to stress too much about how long it's taking. Your body knows what it's doing and will get there in the end. Use this time to do all the things you have to live without when pregnant - eat some pate, some dippy eggs and have a few glasses on wine! You'll be back having to avoid those things before you know it :hugs:

Thanks for your support as always guys. JW I know exactly what you mean - I'd happily be throwing up all over the place if it meant that this baby makes it! During my last pregnancy I didn't really feel ill and I found out at 10wks that the baby hadn't made it past 6wks. and my during my first I felt sick from about wk6 and that faded about wk8 and I later found out that baby died at 8wks so I can't help but associate feeling grotty with a healthy pregnancy :shrug:.

For those of you curious about my symptoms so far...sore nipples, and boobs starting to feel a bit heavier now, feeling a bit queasy in the mornings although not retching yet (sorry TMI!) and also a bit grim in the evenings sometimes, I'm very tired, lots of tummy twinges that are scaring the cr*p out of me as I'm so paranoid, and still lots of CM. So far my sense of smell hasn't been that strong, although I do notice smells more than I normally would and my sense of taste hasn't changed yet - don't think that started until a bit later last time though. I'm 6wks today :happydance:

Hello everyone else. Hope you've all had good days :hugs:
 
Hi ladies :)

well looks like I've missed alot! Yay to RM!!!!!!! I kind of had a feeling about you but didnt want to say anything bc didn't want to jinx it! Hoping all goes well for you.

AFM - getting back to ttc this week, and so nervous about it. Hopefully, I don't O until the weekend and can get over these horrible migraines I have had this week :(
 
Mpepe good luck catching that egg :thumbup: this was my 1st mth trying again too. I dont know if i got enough BD in as i ov before i thought i would, so gona try and forget about the tww.

NTAL sorry your body is taking longer than you thought to get back to normal, it sucks having to wait, but as ladyfog says maybe enjoy the things you wouldnt normally be able to do when pregnant :wine: x

Patiently i hope you and you dh can continue supporting each other :hugs:

Nsn Did you hand your notice in yet or are waiting for references? x

Thinking of you lady and RM x

:dust: to everyone else.

Afm 3dpo, roll on fri as im off work next week, dh and i are off up north on saturday for 3 nights. :witch: should be due when we travel back tues (crappy 10 day luteal phase), wont be temping while away so will just forget about it all and expect her to arrive when i get home! Hopefully not before! :nope: Or not at all would be better!!! :thumbup:

xxx
 
RM - CONGRATULATIONS!!! :woohoo: I'm so happy for you!!

filipenko - Welcome :flower: So sorry to hear about your losses :hugs: FX'd for this cycle!!

patiently - FX'd for you this cycle. Sorry for the heartbreak over the weekend :hugs:

JW, Mpepe - hope you catch that egg this cycle!!

NTAL - Hope AF arrives soon, so you can get back on board TTC!

Ladyfog - Love the symptoms!! Glad you're doing well! Happy 6 weeks!!

Lexi - Good luck in the TWW!!! Sounds like you got a great mini vaca planned!!


AFM - No clue where I'm at. No + OPK yet, but a very dark one yesterday afternoon. Had wicked cramps early afternoon, and my temp dipped and then shot back up Sat/Sun.And I usually ovulate anytime between CD17 and CD23. Arghhhh. Hoping it wasn't ovulation, as we only BD'd once, and that was Saturday night. I guess we'll see what my temps look like the rest of the week, but we'll continue BD'ing every other day this week.
 
Here you go Just Waiting
A longitudinal study of pregnancy outcome following idiopathic recurrent miscarriage
S.A. Brigham, C. Conlon and R.G. Farquharson1
+ Author Affiliations
Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Miscarriage Clinic, Liverpool Women's Hospital, Crown Street, Liverpool L8 7SS, UK
Received February 15, 1999.
Accepted July 28, 1999.
Next SectionAbstract
Recurrent miscarriage is a difficult clinical problem occurring in ~1–2% of fertile women. Following investigation, most cases fail to reveal an identifiable cause and are therefore classified as idiopathic. The aim of this study was to identify important gestational milestones for pregnancy success prediction in women following idiopathic recurrent miscarriage. A total of 325 consecutive patients with idiopathic recurrent miscarriage was involved in a prospective longitudinal observational study. Patients were identified from a miscarriage database of 716 patients. Preconceptual presentation and investigation excluded patients from the study sample with known associations of recurrent pregnancy loss, such as antiphosholipid syndrome, oligomenorrhoea, mid-trimester loss and other rare causes, e.g. abnormal parental karyotype. Following early presentation in a subsequent pregnancy, all patients followed a standard clinic protocol including fetal viability ultrasonography on a fortnightly basis throughout the first trimester. Kaplan–Meier curves were constructed for pregnancy outcome. Out of 325 idiopathic cases, 70% (n = 226) conceived, with a 75% success rate. Of 55 miscarriages, longitudinal assessment showed that six losses occurred following detection of fetal cardiac activity (3%). Data from this large study group have enabled accurate prediction of future pregnancy success and have established important gestational milestones for women with idiopathic recurrent miscarriage.
Key words
fetal cardiac activityidiopathic recurrent miscarriagepregnancy outcomePrevious SectionNext SectionIntroduction
Spontaneous miscarriage occurs in ~15% of all pregnancies, as recorded by hospital episode statistics. The actual figure, from community-based assessment, may well be higher than this as some women miscarry at home and remain unreported to hospital (Everett, 1997). Between 1 and 2% of fertile women will experience recurring pregnancy loss and despite a wide range of investigations, no apparent cause can be found in ~50% of cases (Stirrat, 1990; Quenby and Farquharson, 1993). Recurrent loss of pregnancy is distressing for the patient and frustrating for the clinician, especially where treatment options are limited as in idiopathic recurrent miscarriage. The mainstay of management of these patients is empirically based upon tender loving care and emotional support.
In the absence of predicted success rates with idiopathic recurrent miscarriage, the clinician is at a disadvantage in the miscarriage clinic setting, where the most commonly posed question concerns the chance of future pregnancy success. Previous population studies are small, and few have documented sufficient patient numbers to generate confidence with clinical prediction of future pregnancy outcome, in terms of success or failure. The effect of emotional support, supplemented by ultrasound in early pregnancy gives `success rates' of between 70 and 80% (Stray-Pedersen and Stray-Pedersen, 1984; Liddell et al., 1991; Clifford et al., 1997). As important as an overall success rate, however, is the significance of each gestational milestone attained in the first trimester, which has not been previously determined.
In this large prospective study, an attempt has been made to identify important gestational milestones for women presenting with idiopathic recurrent miscarriage and used the data analysis to predict future pregnancy success based on gestational age, maternal age and miscarriage history.
Previous SectionNext SectionMaterials and methods
All women attending a dedicated Miscarriage Clinic in a University Teaching Hospital (Liverpool Women's Hospital, Liverpool, UK) were entered on a live, i.e. constantly updated, miscarriage database over a 10 year period. Patient information was entered onto a spreadsheet database, with the findings checked by a second doctor. The majority of the 716 patients included in the database (76%) had a history of at least three consecutive miscarriages. Due to patient demand for investigation, some patients were seen in the clinic with a history of two consecutive miscarriages (172 out of 716, 24%).
Following preconceptual presentation to the clinic, an accurate patient history was taken and investigations performed to exclude known associations of recurrent pregnancy loss, such as antiphospholipid syndrome, oligomenorrhoea (Quemby and Farquharson, 1993; Hasegawa et al., 1996; Drakeley et al., 1998), cervical weakness and other rarer causes, for example, abnormal parental chromosome karyotype, as previously described (Drakeley et al., 1998). Patients with identified causes for their pregnancy loss, those who had a history of second trimester loss and those who had completed successful treatment of an abnormal finding were then excluded from the study sample, leaving the `idiopathic' recurrent miscarriage patients. A separate database was then set up for these patients (Li, 1998) and all results of the investigations performed were recorded including number of previous miscarriages and live births. Further differentiation of the group was made into primary losers (n = 173, those with no previous live births) and secondary losers (n = 152, those with previous live births).
Following early presentation to the clinic in a subsequent pregnancy, all patients followed a standardized clinic protocol including transvaginal ultrasonography using transducers of 7.5–5 MHz to assess fetal viability on a fortnightly basis until 12 weeks gestation. Thereafter, they were followed up in the Pregnancy Support Antenatal Clinic. The gestation at which cardiac activity was initially seen was recorded on the database along with the outcome of the pregnancy. A successful outcome was regarded as survival beyond 24 weeks. A record was made of the gestational age at which cardiac activity was lost. Ectopic pregnancy and termination of pregnancy in the subsequent pregnancy were excluded from the study sample.
Using the results from the database, a Kaplan–Meier survival curve was constructed to show time-dependent pregnancy success, in terms of gestational age commencing at 4 weeks amenorrhoea. Logistic regression analysis was subsequently performed, using the model outlined below, to examine the individual impact of age and miscarriage history on achieving a successful pregnancy outcome. The formula for the logistic regression model was:where P = predicted probability. The computer program used is available from the authors.
Previous SectionNext SectionResults
On the live database, 716 consecutive patients were entered with a history of recurrent miscarriage and 325 of these were identified as having `idiopathic recurrent miscarriage', 23 of whom were lost to follow-up. Following postal contact, 76 patients reported no further pregnancy. Of the remainder, 226/325 (70%) subsequently achieved a further pregnancy, two of which were found to be ectopic, and two patients had termination of pregnancy. The majority of patients presented to the dedicated clinic by 8 weeks gestation (90%) and by 10 weeks 98% had presented.
The mean age of the study sample was 32 years (range 17–45 years) and the mean number of previous miscarriages was three (range 2–10) (Table I).
View this table:
In this windowIn a new windowTable I.
Previous miscarriage history
Of the patients achieving a further pregnancy, 167/222 (75%) had a successful outcome with survival beyond 24 weeks (Figure 1). A fetal survival curve was also constructed for the subset of women with at least three previous miscarriages. It was found identical to that for the population as a whole. There was also no statistical difference in outcome between women who had two and those who had three previous miscarriages.

View larger version:
In this pageIn a new window
Download as PowerPoint SlideFigure 1.
Fetal survival in women with a history of idiopathic recurrent miscarriage (n = 222).
There was no statistically significant difference in outcome between primary (77%) and secondary loser (74%), i.e. a previous live birth did not confer a greater chance of success in a subsequent pregnancy.
The entire group of 222 patients suffered 55 (25%) further miscarriages, 54 in the first trimester and one in the second trimester. Of these 55 miscarriages, six (3% of all pregnancies) occurred following detection of fetal cardiac activity.
Using the Kaplan–Meier curve (Figure 1), time-dependent survival, in terms of gestational age, was demonstrated. It was clear from this survival curve that the most perilous time for women with a history of idiopathic recurrent miscarriage was between 6 and 8 weeks gestation. Between these gestations, 78% of the pregnancy losses occurred, 89% of which occurred without the detection of fetal cardiac activity (embryo loss).
Fetal cardiac activity had been identified in 90% of the pregnancies by 8 weeks, rising to 98% by 10 weeks. Consequently, by 8 weeks gestation, if a fetal heart beat had been identified, the chances of a successful outcome in a subsequent pregnancy were 98%, climbing to 99.4% at 10 weeks gestation (Table II).
View this table:
In this windowIn a new windowTable II.
Important gestational milestones for success and loss prediction
Previous miscarriage history and age of the patient significantly affected the chances of a successful outcome, age being slightly more significant than previous number of miscarriages (P = 0.0329 and P = 0.00318 respectively). Women with a history of two previous miscarriages had similar chances of success in a subsequent pregnancy to those that had a history of three previous miscarriages (76 versus 79% respectively, as calculated from the logistic regression model) (Table III).
View this table:
In this windowIn a new windowTable III.
Predicted percentage success rate of subsequent pregnancy according to age and previous miscarriage history
Previous SectionNext SectionDiscussion
Important gestational milestones
The appearance of fetal cardiac activity is an important fundamental observation to clinicians and patients. Following detection of fetal cardiac activity, an anticipated fetal loss rate of between 2 and 5% has been quoted by retrospective analysis in normal low risk antenatal populations (Cashner, 1987; Mackenzie et al., 1988). In women with recurrent miscarriage, a small prospective study (n = 42) demonstrated a 10-fold increase of loss rates (22%), when the appearance of fetal heart activity was studied longitudinally in the early first trimester (Opsahl and Petit, 1993). By contrast, our prospective study of a larger population showed a fetal loss rate of 3% (6/222) after the initial detection of fetal cardiac activity, perhaps related to a lower than average maternal age than the aforementioned study. Details from this and other studies are shown in Table IV. Embryo loss and fetal loss rates vary between different population types, for example our recurrent miscarriage population showed six fetal losses (3%) and 49 embryo losses (22%). This contrasts with previous work in unselected populations, where fetal loss is more likely (Hill et al., 1991; Goldstein, 1994).
View this table:
In this windowIn a new windowTable IV.
Comparison of studies identifying miscarriage rates following detection of fetal cardiac activity
No statistically significant difference was found between the two groups of primary and secondary loser groups. This observation was also made in a low risk, prospectively studied antenatal population (Goldstein, 1994). Similarly, in a recurring miscarriage population, there seems to be no obvious benefit of having had a previous live birth on improving subsequent obstetric performance.
The concept of gestational milestones has been used to predict pregnancy success at 6, 8 and 10 weeks gestation. For the entire population there was a 22% loss rate at 6 weeks gestation, which dramatically fell to 2% at 8 weeks and subsequently at 10 weeks gestation fell to 0.6% of the remaining population (Table I). The conclusion would be that the most perilous time of gestation for women with idiopathic recurrent miscarriage is between 6 and 8 weeks.
Maternal age
Increasing maternal age reduces the chance of a pregnancy success. This has been confirmed in 201 women undergoing fertility treatment by ovulation induction (Smith and Buyalos, 1996). These authors clearly showed an increasing rate of pregnancy loss from 2.1% at less than 30 years to 20% in women over 40 years of age. Furthermore, the impact of age is profound within large infertility populations undergoing in-vitro fertilization (IVF) (Templeton et al., 1996). This study concluded that maternal age is singularly the most important determinant in predicting pregnancy success in an IVF population.
The profound impact of maternal age on pregnancy outcome is similarly demonstrated in the present study. For example, a woman aged 20 years with two previous miscarriages has a 92% [confidence interval (CI) 86–98] chance of success in a subsequent pregnancy. This, however, falls dramatically to 60% (CI 41–79) in a woman with a similar loss history who is aged 45 years (Table II). Although the confidence intervals for the success prediction are wide at the extreme ends of the age spectrum, there is little doubt that maternal age has a significant impact on future success in the recurrent miscarriage population.
Pregnancy support
The effect of the provision of tender loving care and emotional support on loss rates in recurrent miscarriage populations has been previously evaluated. The first large population study, utilizing tender loving care and emotional support in the first trimester, showed an 80% success rate in patients with idiopathic recurrent miscarriage (Stray-Pedersen and Stray-Pedersen, 1983). This study, however, identified 85 out of 195 couples as having `idiopathic recurrent miscarriage' and the population was quasi-randomized, based purely upon geographical location. A separate study, in the absence of tender loving care, showed an 80% success rate, when studied in a smaller population (n = 24) with similar characteristics (Vlaanderen et al., 1987). A more recent study reported an 86% success rate with tender loving care (n = 33), as opposed to only 33% in the absence of emotional support (n = 9), in an unrandomized population (Liddell et al., 1991). Both these recent studies are restricted by small numbers, in contrast to the present study of 222 consecutive pregnancies from which a 75% success rate has been obtained with the provision of tender loving care and ultrasound in early pregnancy.
Patient empowerment
Women with a history of idiopathic recurrent miscarriage, understandably exhibit a marked stress reaction following early diagnosis of a subsequent pregnancy. Ultrasound reassurance and emotional support in a specialized Miscarriage Clinic may address this problem and go some way to alleviating this stress. The present large population study, as well as determining success rates for the group as a whole, has also identified important gestational milestones for success prediction. These milestones can empower patients to gain increasing reassurance of a potential successful pregnancy outcome, as advancing gestation is reached. Clinicians can also gain confidence from this data to predict the future chances of pregnancy success in women with a history of idiopathic recurring miscarriage.
Previous SectionNext SectionAcknowledgments
 
Happy 6 weeks Lady Fog!!! Keep those symptoms coming!!! :thumbup:

To everyone else... I have heard several of you talking about doing the BD every 2 days. I usually do that too because I want to be sure the swimmers are strong. But sometimes I wonder if that's not enough right around OV. I don't want to miss my window. Just wondering the theory from you all on this.
 
To everyone else... I have heard several of you talking about doing the BD every 2 days. I usually do that too because I want to be sure the swimmers are strong. But sometimes I wonder if that's not enough right around OV. I don't want to miss my window. Just wondering the theory from you all on this.

To be honest, I have no idea what I think about this anymore. We've done most everything we can. We've done the every other day thing, the SMEP plan, and trying just to BD as much as we can. We timed everything out perfectly last cycle, and it was another failure. :( I think I'd follow the SMEP plan - BD every other day until you get a + OPK, then that day and 2 days after, skip a day, then BD the next. I've heard it works wonders for most people. But, you can time everything out perfectly and still fail. I think that's what upsets me the most :(
 
That's interesting Tweak. Thanks for sharing. I just googled that and may need to give that a try if I'm not successful this month. FX
 
That's interesting Tweak. Thanks for sharing. I just googled that and may need to give that a try if I'm not successful this month. FX

No problem :) We're trying it again this time, or as best as we can. DH goes away for school 1 night, so we'll either miss a day, or DTD 2 days in a row. The success rate is supposedly really high. Just don't get your hopes up. I know I did, thinking I did everything right, and then when AF showed, I was devastated. As I am at the end of every cycle.
 
I stick to the bd every other night and on o night and the night after, it's worked twice for us so hoping it will again.
It is so frusterating when you do everything right and still a bfn. I did cycle tracking last month they told me I would o that day and the next day it was confirmed I had o'd in the last 24hrs, we bd that night and the night previous and still didn't get our bfp.

Sometimes I think it's just luck.
 
Tweak - don't feel down heartened, I'm sure you are doing everything right. There are just so many things that can 'go wrong' in the run up to conception. You never know, you might have even caught the egg but it wasn't viable or it never implanted. Just keep trying and you will get there :hugs::hugs:

We kind of did the SMEP plan this time, but actually I stopped tracking with OPKs as I was never catching my surge. Instead I just monitored CM and then went at it like rabbits (no more than once a day - don't want him to run dry!) until I felt my OV pains had passed. It was guess work really, but it worked! I suppose, what I'm trying to say is listen to your body and doing it every day certainly didn't hurt our chances. :winkwink:

AFM - properly dry heaved this morning when I tried to load the dishwasher - can safely say my sense of smell has got stronger! :happydance:
 
Blimey this thread has moved fast...loads of posts and I apologise if I miss people out :dohh:

Lady...:rofl: good symptoms coming and happy 6 weeks too :hugs:

Beach...never to late, you can't think like that. I'll be 36 in February and I'm giving it my best shot :hugs: as for the amount of BDing.. first pregnancy we DTD ONCE the whole month :rofl: second pregnancy, don't know when I O'd exactly but BD twice a day apart :shrug: the timing aspect really gets me down too...timed to perfection but still BFN's are soul destroying.

Tweak...keep tracking hun, that positive is on it's way :hugs:

Lexi...my early caught me out too :dohh: the only bonus with that is I am not pinning my hopes on a BFP this month and I feel good about that :happydance: :dust:

Filip...thanks for all the info...I do agree on the progesterone supplements too :hugs:

RM...how are you feeling hun? :hugs:

JW...keep positive hun :hugs:

Patiently...:hugs: I'm sure your DH didn't mean anything by it...they are not the ones researching and worrying daily about getting our forever babies. They just get excited at the scan parts where it becomes more real and don;t think about how stressful it is for us to get there :hugs: be kind to yourself :hugs:

Mpepe...hope the migraines bugger off and try not to worry too much about getting back in the saddle :hugs:

NTAT...hoping your body tells you it's time to get back to normal really soon :hugs: limbo land is no fun :nope:

:hi: to anyone I have missed and to any lurkers :hugs:

AFM..think I am 11 DPO today, tested BFN last night which is as expected due to poor timing this month but I am totally ok with it. It has been a relief of lack of pressure this month and it feels bloody good!

Just waiting for my referees to receive paperwork, fill it in and return it, wait for written confirmation and then I will hand my notice in. My worry is if there is a question about time off...as I've had 6 weeks off due to either loss or early pregnancy :wacko: ah well, it is out of my hands :thumbup:

XxX
 
never - I hope you get the job. can you really not get a job because of medical leave. Can you explain to them if it comes up? Fingers crossed.
I'm so happy to see you were more relaxed this month and are feeling ok with everything.

Lady - happy 6 weeks
 
Thanks lexi, tweak, and never! Made a little pit stop at victoria's secret yesterday to try to entice dh! lol

C'mon November! Let this be a lucky month for us all!

never - 11 dpo is still early, i never tested an earlier than 12 and at 12 it was very faint, f'x for you
 
never - I hope you get the job. can you really not get a job because of medical leave. Can you explain to them if it comes up? Fingers crossed.
I'm so happy to see you were more relaxed this month and are feeling ok with everything.

Lady - happy 6 weeks

I could explain but I also think that it makes me look like I am more committed to trying for a family rather than work orientated if that makes sense? I just would rather it wasn't asked baout as that will be th4e downfall of me getting this job that I really need and want right now :shrug:

Thanks lexi, tweak, and never! Made a little pit stop at victoria's secret yesterday to try to entice dh! lol

C'mon November! Let this be a lucky month for us all!

never - 11 dpo is still early, i never tested an earlier than 12 and at 12 it was very faint, f'x for you

Thanks Mpepe it was 10 DPO last night and I am fine with it, have all the AF symptoms, crappy timing as in only one BD as I O'd earlier than expected and I got a good line at 11 DPO last time. It's ok though...honestly :thumbup::

XxX
 
Thanks lexi, tweak, and never! Made a little pit stop at victoria's secret yesterday to try to entice dh! lol

C'mon November! Let this be a lucky month for us all!

never - 11 dpo is still early, i never tested an earlier than 12 and at 12 it was very faint, f'x for you

You go girl!! :sex: :dust:
 
Hi everyone. Hope you're all ok.

NSN - hope this job works out for you :hugs:

Starting to feel a little nauseous off and on hear but I've never had ms with any pregnancy so far just odd bouts of nausea so don't know if that's bad or it's just the way I react :shrug: Boobs are heavy and tender and man I could :sleep: for England!

Went to Dr on Monday she is arranging for the mw to contact me this week, she has been v supportive although she has suggested some counselling for us both just to let go of the past and try to help us relax so I'm looking into that. I feel a bit unattached to it all at the moment - probably my brains way of protecting itself but I'm also thinking well what will be will be there's nothing I can do to prevent it.

Still no told anyone and in a way I feel awful because I'll look to my parents for support should anything go wrong, I don't like not telling them but at the same time don't want them to be disappointed again. What would you ladies do?

Hope you don't mind me still hanging around I don't feel like joining in pregnancy discussion fully until my brain has caught up with my body :wacko:

:dust: to all and GL to any testers this week
 

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