any other over 35 first time mums?

[clio]

What are the 5s?

The author, Dr. Karp (first name eludes me) theorizes--and I don't think this is only his idea--that there is actually a "4th trimester." Most animals' infants come out at least able to walk and thus able to protect themselves somehow. But human infants come out completely helpless and thus we must recreate the conditions of the womb to provide our babies with this fourth trimester. This, of course, means carrying them a lot. But he came up with the five S's, to help the baby sleep, all of which are also based on what the baby would experience in the womb. Last night I was trying to remember them all, and didn't get very far, so let's see how I do:

1. Swaddle (constriction of the womb)
2. Side position (facing baby out on his/her side, but also perhaps facing down, but "down" it doesn't start with S)
3. Shushing (like womb--but we used a white sound machine in the end)
4. Swinging (or even Shaking--we use this still)
5. Sucking (J wouldn't take a pacifier so this one didn't work, but he was already asleep by the 4th S)

Well, I only had to look up two. It worked like a charm with J. Then it stopped working, so I started singing the Paul Simon Song Book in his ear instead, so I would add a 6th S: Simon Song Book. But as I said, shaking still is part of our nighttime routine. He lies in our arms, and we shake his whole body while he's in our arms. It's what actually puts him to sleep.

After giving thiago some tylenol for his teething he slep a lot better. I just needed to fix him on the crib once and he just woke up. I will talk to you ladies soon.

We've been giving J Advil because it also reduces inflammation. It actually works really well. He always calms down.

So apple juice isn't working. He hates it. So, on we go, searching for something else...

 

[Indigo77]

YouTube has videos of Dr. Karp in action utilizing the 5 Ss if you're curious.

 

[Borboleta]

What are the 5s?

The author, Dr. Karp (first name eludes me) theorizes--and I don't think this is only his idea--that there is actually a "4th trimester." Most animals' infants come out at least able to walk and thus able to protect themselves somehow. But human infants come out completely helpless and thus we must recreate the conditions of the womb to provide our babies with this fourth trimester. This, of course, means carrying them a lot. But he came up with the five S's, to help the baby sleep, all of which are also based on what the baby would experience in the womb. Last night I was trying to remember them all, and didn't get very far, so let's see how I do:

1. Swaddle (constriction of the womb)
2. Side position (facing baby out on his/her side, but also perhaps facing down, but "down" it doesn't start with S)
3. Shushing (like womb--but we used a white sound machine in the end)
4. Swinging (or even Shaking--we use this still)
5. Sucking (J wouldn't take a pacifier so this one didn't work, but he was already asleep by the 4th S)

Well, I only had to look up two. It worked like a charm with J. Then it stopped working, so I started singing the Paul Simon Song Book in his ear instead, so I would add a 6th S: Simon Song Book. But as I said, shaking still is part of our nighttime routine. He lies in our arms, and we shake his whole body while he's in our arms. It's what actually puts him to sleep.

After giving thiago some tylenol for his teething he slep a lot better. I just needed to fix him on the crib once and he just woke up. I will talk to you ladies soon.

We've been giving J Advil because it also reduces inflammation. It actually works really well. He always calms down.

So apple juice isn't working. He hates it. So, on we go, searching for something else...

Clio

Try mixing pear juice or prune juice with water. A friend of mine swears by it.

 

[AngelUK]

Yeah prune juice will do it but yeah do dilute cause you might have explosions otherwise lol

 

[clio]

I'll try that, but I don't think he'll take it. He HATED the apple juice.

What we ended up doing is going back to his original formula. Enfamil A+ can be used from 1-12 months, or you can switch to Enfapro A+ at 6-18 months. His poo started to become more solid after the change. We've just now finished the switch over to 100% Enfapro and here we are, constipated. So, we just went straight back to the first formula, which always gave him liquid poos. We don't know yet if it'll work, but let's hope and then we'll come up with a more permanent solution.

 

[AngelUK]

Good luck!

 

[clio]

And it worked. Yay! Don't know what to do about switching him over to the formula for older babies, but I've got 5 months, and can probably get him used to apple or prune juice by then...

Whew.

 

[Leeze]

Hi ladies. Can I re-join you? I was around this thread at the beginning but didn't realise it was still going. I've just had a quick read through the last 10 pages or so to try to catch up! Sorry if it takes me a little while to remember who said what. I've definitely still got new mummy brain. Anyway, i'm a first time mum and have just turned 40. Kia is nearly 9 months. She's generally a pretty good-natured and smiley baby, although we've had quite a lot of stress recently with teething and waking up 2 or 3 times most nights. She STTN from about 3 months but stopped doing it around 6 months. I'm hoping it's just a phase. I'm due back at work in 3 months although have been able to negotiate 3 days a week, which I'm very relieved about. We tried the EASY routine for a while too, but most of the time nowadays I feed to sleep for naps and nightime sleep. I'm hoping at some point we'll get back to her self-settling but at the moment this does work ok for us most of the time. I don't like the idea of CIO and I've never been able to do more than about 3 mins of CC before I pick her up and either take her for a walk or feed her to sleep instead. Her crying normally escalates pretty quickly and I don't like to leave her to cry. Anyway, need to put her in the cot now. Hope to chat soon xx

 

[AngelUK]

Welcome back Leeze. I am relatively new to the thread but enjoying it so far I don't think I could do CIO either, it distresses me too much for either my boys to cry for any length of time. It does happen of course like when I am changing one baby and the other is not within reach, he will just have to cry a lil till I am done. But it makes me feel dreadful! At the moment I am trying to break my boys of bad sleep associations such as dummies and rocking them to sleep cause they wake every hour at night and cry and won't sleep till they get both. Or rather Dominic does. Sebastian is generally a good sleeper but has started waking every 20 minutes for his dummy in the early morning after 6ish. Of course I don't mind them waking for their feeds at midnight and 4ish and then 7:30-8am ish if only they slept in between lol. Anyway I probably have mentioned this already in the last 10 pages. lol It preys on my mind, especially as I have night duty again tonight. Sigh.

 

[Leeze]

Thanks for the welcome Angel. Waking every hour sounds VERY tough. Kia normally wakes every 3 or 4 hours which feels hard enough! We didn't do a dummy but sometimes I think it might have been a good idea because she is a very sucky baby. Do you rock to sleep for daytime naps too? I found at about 4 months that Kia would normally self settle for her first nap of the day if I swaddled her, put her in quiet dark room and timed it when she started yawning and rubbing her eyes. We mostly struggled with self-settling for all other naps and a lot of bedtime sleeps, but I think this possibly helped as she does sometimes self-settle in the night. I can sometimes hear her sucking her thumb in the middle of the night, she does it very loudly!

 

[kosh]

Clio - sorry, I'd forgotten you'd already said re your husband teaching a few hours etc etc. That's a great position to be in, wow, he doesn't even have to prepare the lectures!
do you work too?

Those are some interesting results, kosh! I didn't think that there were so many husbands who helped out so much!

tbh, I think those results are slightly biased, I have the impression that those with no (or less) hands-on dads did not reply.

But you're frustrated with yours? Can I ask why?

I don't know (it actually took me all day to think how to reply to this! )
I think when LO was born DH surprised me both positively and (slightly) negatively. I wasn't expecting him to bond with Gael so fast - you can tell he loves his son more than anything in the world. He loves playing with him and making up stories, etc. He gets upset the days he days he come back from work and Gael is already asleep. He has this particular way to talk to him which is really funny and sweet. I love seeing them together
The 'negative' side is that he could 'help' a bit more, and I hate using the word help because I don't think it should be just my job. It's not that bad, he does change nappies and do morning shifts, but has to be reminded, but I am mostly the 'carer' and he's mostly the 'entertainer'. I guess I get frustrated when he gets lazy and takes my work for granted.


Re. the 4th trimester - it's not only that most mammals can walk soon after birth but also that humans are actually born 'premature' - from the evolutionary point of view there had to be a trade off between brain (and skull) size and length of gestation. So,yes, the 4th trimester makes total sense! Don't know about LO, but I def felt that I needed those 3 extra months to get used to the idea of being a mother!

But what's the sweet soft spot?

RE constipation - have you tried giving J prunes (not juice)? We tried yesterday and he loved it! He was sucking away all the flesh (which could clearly be seen in the nappy today )

Leeze - welcome back! I thought I'd bump the thread and has been a success since!
Well, I nurse/rock to sleep too, my LO only self-settle for a week I am not too worried about that tbh, but I wish DH could settle him during the night too, as he wakes faaaar too often and I'll be going back to work soon

Angel - how are the boys doing? Don't know if it's wishful thinking but I'm sure Dominic will get better (same for my high needs Gael!).

How is everybody else? Indigo? Borboleta?
How are you feeling Rowan?

 

[Leeze]

Thanks Kosh. You never know, your LO might surprise you when you go back to work and start sleeping longer. What have you got in place for childcare? One of my friends told me last weekend that her LO always sleeps better after being with the childminder for the day. A lot can happen in a few weeks. Are you going back to work full-time? Oh, and the 4th trimester theory, I think it's spot on. Things definitely improved for us after the first 3 months. I was going to say something else too and I've completely forgotten what it was. I'm on my phone at the moment so will need to post this before I can re-read your post and check x

 

[kosh]

Thanks Kosh. You never know, your LO might surprise you when you go back to work and start sleeping longer. What have you got in place for childcare? One of my friends told me last weekend that her LO always sleeps better after being with the childminder for the day. A lot can happen in a few weeks. Are you going back to work full-time? Oh, and the 4th trimester theory, I think it's spot on. Things definitely improved for us after the first 3 months. I was going to say something else too and I've completely forgotten what it was. I'm on my phone at the moment so will need to post this before I can re-read your post and check x

LO will be going to a nursery that it less than 5min from work so I plan to go and feed him at lunch time!
Yes, going back full time unfortunately.....

 

[Leeze]

I know what it was. It was about OH. He's pretty hands-on but generally I need to ask him to do stuff and it feels like unless I ask him then we both assume that I just get on with it. And often when he's 'in charge' he needs my help with something. We can talk openly about it, which helps. Saying that, I often find myself going over the same things again with him. Sometimes it feels easier just to get on with things myself but I know he's got to learn! I'm going back to work in 3 months and I think that by then things will need to feel a bit more equal. At the moment, i'm always the one getting up in the night, but since I'm BF and that's wick settles her then I'm not sure what else to do 't the moment. Keep talking, I guess!

 

[kosh]

I know what it was. It was about OH. He's pretty hands-on but generally I need to ask him to do stuff and it feels like unless I ask him then we both assume that I just get on with it. And often when he's 'in charge' he needs my help with something. We can talk openly about it, which helps. Saying that, I often find myself going over the same things again with him. Sometimes it feels easier just to get on with things myself but I know he's got to learn! I'm going back to work in 3 months and I think that by then things will need to feel a bit more equal. At the moment, i'm always the one getting up in the night, but since I'm BF and that's wick settles her then I'm not sure what else to do 't the moment. Keep talking, I guess!

Yes, exactly - he does it but I feel I have to ask him or, as you said, we both assume I do it, which is funny, because most of the times I am OK with, but then something happens and I think, hang on a minute, why is it me doing it again? Like you, I too think thingswill have to change when I go back to work. And to be fair with him, I know they will change, it's just that when I am around it's easier for him to do the things he likes, rather than the nappy changes etc.
I had a very relevant dream last night - it was LO's first day at nursery and DH was taking him. For some reason the nursery was in a mountain, and was all snowed, so DH decided to go skying and left LO on his own. Then I got a call from the nursery saying he'd had an accident and that LO hadn't eaten or slept all day!!!

 

[kosh]

kept thinking - Angel what are you doing to break the sleep associations? I am trying too, but have no success at all. I really need DH to be able to settle him in the middle of the night!

 

[creatingpeace]

Welcome back Leeze!

Thanks cliomdor posting the 5 SS makes so much sense!
Avery absolutely loved his swing!

 

[Rowan75]

im good ta frist tri tiredness is kicking in - altho martha keeps sleep crawling and getting stuck so Im up and down a lot and alos now up and down for a wee lol

 

[AngelUK]

Leeze usually during the day they nap either on the extended chairbed in the nursery or in their bouncies/rockers. So when they are in their bouncies I tandem rock them with my feet and they can drop off like that. I am trying to whip out Dominic's dummy just when he is starting to get drowsy and doing the slitty eye thing and that is also the moment I am trying to stop rocking. That usually works but he might wake again a lil so I just rock on. With Sebastian it is different. We haven't tried to cure him off his dummy addiction cause so far it wasn't a problem. Ok so during naps he really wants it in and will cry when it falls out. But at the same time he seems to have a stronger suck on it than Dominic so it doesn't fall out so often. It is now starting to become a problem round 6ish in the morning though. I guess he isn't deeply asleep any more by then and wants to doze while suckling his dummy. That tends to fall out when he drifts into deeper sleep and he is awake and whimpering and so is mummy, shoving it back in
So yes basically the sleep associations for Dominic are being rocked in our arms and having his dummy in. Lately he has been falling asleep in his cot with us wriggling him lol but the dummy is a fine art as you need to find just the right moment to take it out. And though I managed that last night, it didn't mean that he didn't wake every hour wanting it back in So I think the dummy will take longer, especially as I am not very consequent with it during the day when out and about. Thing is, I know it helps prevent SIDS too so I am not sure if I really should get rid of it. But oh if only he would sleep as calmly and deeply as Seb during the night

 

[Borboleta]

Hello ladies,

Yesterday we had a wedding shower to go. It was a full day for poor thiago but he did fine with 4 30 min naps throught out the day. He slept great last night! 9:30pm till 7:30am. Tylenol, full day and a swim in the pool does it for him.

Talking about dummies, thiago likes his too. He normally has them for naps but most of the time he doesnt like having it for night night time. Just sometimes. He will drop them but doesn't seem to wake up wanting it . But it is a saver when he is fussing.

Now he is not a big fan of the car. Unless I am sitting on the back sit with him ( even that sometimes it does not work) he starts complaining in there. I told my husband that maybe we have to think about getting him a little DVD player to play Elmo for him. He has a music bar on his seat toys... Nothing seems to help the car ride. I know he want us to hold him but that cannot be done in the car. Any other tips?