Attitudes to AP/NP in Baby Club...

[xemmax]

I think it's really sad.

I think much of it is the fact that the definition of a parenting style ('attached parent') immediately creates a divide. There is no common definition for the opposite (hence the thread in BC that just calls them "Mums like this" or something like that) - so perhaps that creates the feeling that attached parents believe they are parenting on a more 'conscious' level - ie putting more consideration into their choices (I'm not saying it's true - I'm saying that maybe because a definition exists for AP but not for the opposite, that it might make people feel that way). It becomes a 'them VS us' situation - the feeling which lingers behind most of the debates on here (bf vs ff, erf vs ff, working mum vs sahm, etc etc). It's sad because the divide is totally unecessary - it's like the fact that we all mothers is totally forgotten.

I definitely get the sense that if you are a natural parent it isn't 'cool' in Baby Club at the moment. I've never defined my parenting style but many of my beliefs lie with natural parenting, and the way I parent is completely different to all of my friends so I'm very much used to being 'the odd one out'. The only difference is that in real life, my friends don't assume they must have nothing in common with me because I use cloth/breastfeed/feed my baby to sleep whereas they use disposables/FF/use CC - we just share stories about our children and we learn from each other, as it should be on here.

 

[buttonnose82]

can I ask your girls opinion on something

do you think the label 'natural parenting' helps the issues, I just wonder if thats why others get upset, by saying you are natural parenting you are therefore implying that others are unnaturally parenting and thats might be why others get upset? thoughts? could there be a better label?

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

well yes, the label could be seen as an attack, however - you can't really argue with the facts that for example breastfeeding is more natural than FF, and that cloth is more 'nature / enviromentally' friendly than sposies, and that attending to your crying baby is more natural than leaving them. If you are choosing to do all the opposite things to what natural parenting usually is, then surely being natural isn't of massive importance to you anyway? So you wouldn't mind it being said you don't do things the natural way. Just a thought.

 

[xemmax]

can I ask your girls opinion on something

do you think the label 'natural parenting' helps the issues, I just wonder if thats why others get upset, by saying you are natural parenting you are therefore implying that others are unnaturally parenting and thats might be why others get upset? thoughts? could there be a better label?

I think you might get a better response by asking those who don't frequent this forum. To me, I don't think the term 'natural parenting' is offensive at all, but then I consider a lot of my choices in parenting to be 'natural'... people who don't make the same choices might find it offensive though... if you see what i mean

 

[buttonnose82]

I just wonder if there is a better label thats all, I understand why it is called natural parenting

 

[littlestar85]

I think, the cause of alot of the upset in baby club is more down too peoples way with words rather than their chosen parenting styles,

I don't think that's always the case, I mean yes it does happen, but more often than not AP/NP mums are shot down even when their wording is as politically correct and unoffensive as it can be...

Like lozzy21 said, some people just want an argument, but moreover I think that ellie has hit the nail on the head -

I agree with Lozzy and Claire ....
I try really really hard to word posts really carefully and almost never say anything I think might be 'controversial' or deliberately upsetting. Because of that I sincerely believe that if people take offence to what I am saying it is becauase of their own issues or attitude, not because I have worded things wrongly, and I can't do anything about that ...
In those cases, I really do think it's the reader's problem, not the writer's, if the writing is careful.

People get wired up by an implication e.g. "I couldn't let my baby cry" or even just a reminder "I BF" that touches a nerve with them and it spirals into sensitive territory. In which case Mum2b_Claire is right -

People also give others rather a lot of power IMO - it's constantly 'you made me feel X' or 'you made me feel Y' I'm not being funny, but if you are confident you aren't X or Y then how an earth can someone (espec a stranger on the internet) MAKE you feel it?

If you think someone thinks their choices are better than yours... so what? If you're confident in your choices why let a stranger make you feel like your choice are questionable???

If someone asks for opinions on a particular issues AP/NP mums should be entitled to not 'sugar coat' just like 'mainstream' (I agree with pp, we need a different term for that) mums are.

 

[CouldThisBeIt]

I see where you are coming from, and yes I can see the term being divisive. Calling it AP suggests that those that don't aren't attached to their infants. Calling it natural leaves the suggestion that they are unnatural. Compassionate suggests a lack of compassion. It almost seems like it's more traditional versus modern parenting-but that doesn't work for us either because ignoring your children in the "children should be seen and not heard" attitude was traditional until recent generations.

Tough question really!

 

[buttonnose82]

I think, the cause of alot of the upset in baby club is more down too peoples way with words rather than their chosen parenting styles,

I don't think that's always the case, I mean yes it does happen, but more often than not AP/NP mums are shot down even when their wording is as politically correct and unoffensive as it can be...

I have no doubt thats true, but I have also seen it work the other way around too, no one is perfect

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

I actually would go as far as to say that I don't think it is the AP/NP mums who, as a rule, word things aggressively / defensively / sarcastically / make it personal when it is a concept being discussed.

 

[xemmax]

I see where you are coming from, and yes I can see the term being divisive. Calling it AP suggests that those that don't aren't attached to their infants. Calling it natural leaves the suggestion that they are unnatural. Compassionate suggests a lack of compassion. It almost seems like it's more traditional versus modern parenting-but that doesn't work for us either because ignoring your children in the "children should be seen and not heard" attitude was traditional until recent generations.

Tough question really!

And as my Mum likes to remind me - "none of what you're doing is new, you know!" (She co-slept, breastfed 3 children until 2-4 years, used a sling, used terrys, etc etc)

I think the divide has always been there, there just weren't parenting forums for women to argue about it before!

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

I often refer to mainstream parenting as 'conventional' or '20th century parenting' and nobody has shouted at me yet...

 

[littlestar85]

I don't think the term 'natural' is the issue, I don't think that anyone can say that BFing, babywearing (I doubt ancient man had prams) and most of the other 'natural' parenting things are unnatural therefore the term applies irregardless.

The issue is more with 'attachment parenting' as the theory in itself, I guess, claims to be better than non-attachment parenting and everyone knows that is its belief. AP mummies believe that I'm sure, that's why we do it, and non-AP mummies know we think that; just as we know that they believe their way is the 'right' way. I don't think it's right to tell someone your/their way is 'right' or 'wrong' but we can all roughly guess what AP mummies think of controversial mainstream things like CIO. So even if we say absolutely NOTHING offensive, non-AP mummies will assume we're judging as soon as we mention AP.

 

[littlestar85]

I think, the cause of alot of the upset in baby club is more down too peoples way with words rather than their chosen parenting styles,

I don't think that's always the case, I mean yes it does happen, but more often than not AP/NP mums are shot down even when their wording is as politically correct and unoffensive as it can be...

I have no doubt thats true, but I have also seen it work the other way around too, no one is perfect

Of course, I've seen it a lot too. But I do think that the majority of the time AP mums are unoffensive on certain issues but it gets taken out of proportion by others.

 

[CouldThisBeIt]

I know that I fall into that trap a lot. Otherwise-why go to the effort? There is a lot to AP that is more effort, so we have to be doing it for a reason. Namely, that we believe in it, and believe it to be the best.

 

[Eala]

I think my issue here is that what is "natural" for one person is absolutely not "natural" to someone else

God, I feel like a broken record because I always end up saying something like this whenever this issue comes up

It really comes down to what people mean by the word natural. Are we talking about "close to nature"? Are we talking eco-friendly? Or do we mean that it's about doing what feels right to you as a parent, naturally following your child's lead. And, given that children ARE different in what they need or like, what may be natural for me and my child, won't be natural for someone else. It doesn't mean that either of us is unnatural, it just means that we both understand what our child needs.

So I suppose I'm saying that no, I don't like the term "Natural Parenting" and I don't think it's a good name for this section. Attachment Parenting is one thing - it's a recognised style, it has certain behaviours and choices associated with it. But I think you'd really struggle to find a definition of a "natural" parent that isn't going to put people's backs up.

If it were down to me, I'd call this section Attachment and Eco Parenting, or something like that. Covers the baby-wearing, covers co-sleepng, covers the cloth nappies, and those seem to be the main topics which tend to be covered in here.

 

[littlestar85]

I think my issue here is that what is "natural" for one person is absolutely not "natural" to someone else

God, I feel like a broken record because I always end up saying something like this whenever this issue comes up

It really comes down to what people mean by the word natural. Are we talking about "close to nature"? Are we talking eco-friendly? Or do we mean that it's about doing what feels right to you as a parent, naturally following your child's lead. And, given that children ARE different in what they need or like, what may be natural for me and my child, won't be natural for someone else. It doesn't mean that either of us is unnatural, it just means that we both understand what our child needs.

So I suppose I'm saying that no, I don't like the term "Natural Parenting" and I don't think it's a good name for this section. Attachment Parenting is one thing - it's a recognised style, it has certain behaviours and choices associated with it. But I think you'd really struggle to find a definition of a "natural" parent that isn't going to put people's backs up.

If it were down to me, I'd call this section Attachment and Eco Parenting, or something like that. Covers the baby-wearing, covers co-sleepng, covers the cloth nappies, and those seem to be the main topics which tend to be covered in here.

I agree that AP should have its own section for sure.

 

[buttonnose82]

I think my issue here is that what is "natural" for one person is absolutely not "natural" to someone else

God, I feel like a broken record because I always end up saying something like this whenever this issue comes up

It really comes down to what people mean by the word natural. Are we talking about "close to nature"? Are we talking eco-friendly? Or do we mean that it's about doing what feels right to you as a parent, naturally following your child's lead. And, given that children ARE different in what they need or like, what may be natural for me and my child, won't be natural for someone else. It doesn't mean that either of us is unnatural, it just means that we both understand what our child needs.

So I suppose I'm saying that no, I don't like the term "Natural Parenting" and I don't think it's a good name for this section. Attachment Parenting is one thing - it's a recognised style, it has certain behaviours and choices associated with it. But I think you'd really struggle to find a definition of a "natural" parent that isn't going to put people's backs up.

If it were down to me, I'd call this section Attachment and Eco Parenting, or something like that. Covers the baby-wearing, covers co-sleepng, covers the cloth nappies, and those seem to be the main topics which tend to be covered in here.

I think you just hit the nail on the head as too what I was asking

 

[bumpy_j]

can I ask your girls opinion on something

do you think the label 'natural parenting' helps the issues, I just wonder if thats why others get upset, by saying you are natural parenting you are therefore implying that others are unnaturally parenting and thats might be why others get upset? thoughts? could there be a better label?

I think you might get a better response by asking those who don't frequent this forum. To me, I don't think the term 'natural parenting' is offensive at all, but then I consider a lot of my choices in parenting to be 'natural'... people who don't make the same choices might find it offensive though... if you see what i mean

i agree,

although 'natural' parenting is slightly MORE natural, it's a bit of a an incorrect term - nappies, whether cloth or not are NOT natural - you don't see it in the animal kingdom, need a poop? patch o grass. same with slings, pushchairs yes are deemed MORE unnatural but we don't have kangaroo pouches so we make an unnatural alternative - thus the sling. i think something like 'eco' or 'organic' parenting would be more appropriate although not everything discussed on this forum may go under that umbrella

feeding is the only thing that id deem with a clear natural/unnatural divide - hope that doesn't offend FFs it's not meant to, just that BFing is what we're genetically designed to do having boobies and all that

 

[littlestar85]

I often refer to mainstream parenting as 'conventional' or '20th century parenting' and nobody has shouted at me yet...

 

[buttonnose82]

you know what, I was just sat here, watching good old JK and re reading this and figured ....

why do we need too label different parenting styles? from now on, my parenting style is 'button parenting'