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Book Club. All Are Welcome. Reading for End of May: Dark Matter by Blake Crouch

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That's because I work in marketing. We get away with making lots of stuff up. :rofl:
 
Questions I have:

1) What do you think of the game John plays with the kids in the rowboat?
2) How do you feel about Michael's dealings with women?
3) How do feel about how the book deals with issue of mental health especially depression?
4) What do you think about the infamous letters? :rofl:
5) How do you think that Celia and Alec's lives as adults were affected by their father's suicide?


Ok please feel free to add any questions you can think of, I'll make a master list, and then we can start answering them!
 
I think I might jump on the Book Club bandwagon. I was debating. I wasn't completely sold on this book since I don't like sad books and I'm generally bad in book clubs. But I need a distraction right now. Might try to read this one this weekend and hop onto your discussion and then read the next one with you ladies.

As far as my reading tastes, I vary a lot. But generally like anything humorous, romance, or any historical fiction. I'm a fan of young adult and mysteries as well. Really anything that doesn't make me think (see that's why I'm bad in book clubs - I don't like to think.) Not a huge fan of sci-fi, westerns, or general adult fiction (much more a genre reader).

My favorite authors are: Susan Elizabeth Phillips, Lisa Kleypas, Sarah Dessen, and Meg Cabot. I'm super girly in my reading.

Oh...and I work at a library, but do little with the books apart from promoting ones I've never read.
 
welcome Bronte, i love that you promote books you never read. :rofl:


1) What do you think of the game John plays with the kids in the rowboat?
at first i thought it was quiet a funny thing to have the kids do as a game but when you think about the part where he is teaching his kids life lessons then there is a method to his madness.

2) How do you feel about Michael's dealings with women?
he over relied on women to try to be his sanity. he seemed to use them alot as an excuse for the things he did. he did not seem to have mum issues but with the way he focused so much on all the women, even the ones not interested in him, it made me think he had deeper issues than they touched on the book. except for his depression, there was somthing else so off about him

3) How do feel about how the book deals with issue of mental health especially depression?
i dont think the book went into depression alot. it touched and highlighted a few key elements but the real darkness i only felt once when they were in the cabin and with depression there is more darkness. so even though the book brought light to some sides of depression, it never really get the full feel of depression through

4) What do you think about the infamous letters? :rofl:
this is what made me keep reading the book. his random thoughts, his complete honesty. at times his writing age seemed to for a 10yr old to a 30yr old and you never really know what he would be saying next. the letters on the ship were my favourite.

5) How do you think that Celia and Alec's lives as adults were affected by their father's suicide?
now this hmmmm.... every decision they made everyday after the suicide was so that one day they will not end up like that. its actually hard to descibe this. Alec and Celia always had the question "why" as to why their dad choose suicide. and with never being able to get the answer, they in some ways lived their live avoiding wanting to get the answer. if that makes any sense to you. after the suicide they emotionally never allow themselves to get close with anyone. they wanted to be alone but be happy alone which their dad never was.

also i was never really good at book review so forgive me if my answers are all over the place. and the above is just how i felt it. the book was over all a good read. it is somthing that will stick with you for some time to come but the author never found the balance between depression and "normal"
 
Well...I've already given up and am moving onto a bodice ripper for the rest of the evening. I only have like 10 pages to go before these infamous letters you speak of. So I'll give it a go again tomorrow and hope it picks up.

Interesting topic and I feel it starting to get better. I'm just impatient for something to happen instead of a lot of reflection.

I did enjoy one of the brief quotes on children: "with children, everything's already happening and then over with. It happens while you're trying to keep up and gone by the time you arrive at a view of things." I imagine that is very much how having children will be, especially at the beginning.
 
1) What do you think of the game John plays with the kids in the rowboat?
It was definitely foreshadowing because I got a creepy feeling before we even knew he was going to kill himself. I think it was his way of validating to himself that he could end it all and his children would still be okay. It's a little spooky.

2) How do you feel about Michael's dealings with women?
It was interesting that all of his relationships were essentially doomed from the start. It was like Michael used his relationships to try to be "normal," and when it didn't work he became even more fixated because he was trying so hard for some sort of stability.

3) How do feel about how the book deals with issue of mental health especially depression?
The book shows just how complex mental health is. It isn't just depression or just anxiety, etc. In the book we see just how deep and irreversible mental health issues can be. We saw more depression than anything in John, but there was so much going on with Michael and we saw how it affected every aspect of his life from his childhood until the day he died. Usually in novels if a character has a mental illness, we only see a glimpse of their life for a short amount of time, so it was fascinating to see how it morphed Michael's life as he grew up.

4) What do you think about the infamous letters?
Oh those letters... :rofl: I think they gave us a better idea of Michael's state of mind than if he'd had his own narrative like everyone else. They made me lol every time though!

5) How do you think that Celia and Alec's lives as adults were affected by their father's suicide?
I don't know that they would have been as concerned about Michael if it hadn't been for their father's suicide. Because of it, they made a lot of sacrifices that maybe wouldn't have been made otherwise
 
I decided not to wait :haha:

Lemon's Questions:
"Did you like the book?"
Yes and no. It started as a love hate and continues. It's been a couple weeks since I've finished it and the distance helps me appreciate the book more, I think. I like it in the sense that it portrays an accurate picture of mental illness and the effects it has on a family and relationships. I dislike it because it's not a happy book. I also felt like some of the writing was a bit pretentious, like the author was trying really hard for it to be something more, but it really wasn't necessary. Less is more with such a dark topic.

"Who was your favorite character?"
Michael, of course!

Tank's questions:
1) What do you think of the game John plays with the kids in the rowboat?
For sure foreshadowing. At first I thought, what an interesting way to teach the kids... but then I realized the point and thought it was quite fucked up, but that's mental illness.

2) How do you feel about Michael's dealings with women?
Michael has so many issues, poor guy. It's clear one of his struggles is with borderline personality disorder, which makes him a relationship nightmare. He's insecure, impulsive, extreme. I also think, given the example his parents set for him... mom screaming in passionate frustration at dad, dad giving up, set him up for a string of unhealthy relationships.

3) How do feel about how the book deals with issue of mental health especially depression?
It was an accurate portrayal in the sense that someone with clinical depression is always battling that demon, whether it's bubbling under the surface or it becomes a full blown monster. To have other mental health issues alongside depression is a given and I'm glad the author included those as well. I would have liked to have seen it taken farther, as uncomfortable and unpleasant as it would have been to read, I feel like the author held back a little bit. When someone is suffering so significantly, the illness becomes a black hole. The author only scratched the surface. I will say that I appreciated how the author included various medications that had been used... definitely interesting for me because I do see how these very medications affect people IRL.

4) What do you think about the infamous letters? :rofl:
HILARIOUS. Kind of something I would have done :haha:

5) How do you think that Celia and Alec's lives as adults were affected by their father's suicide?
I don't really like this question, because I'm not sure :haha: I think they made bad relationship choices, but I can't say I'd blame that 100% on the parents. I really think they were, obviously, devastated by what happened to their dad, so they would do anything they could to help Michael. As such, both Celia and Alec came across as very bland to me... I mean Alec had the whole sexcapades thing going on but these two were not that deep or interesting to me, it felt like anything they had to give they gave to Michael and it left room for little else. I hope that makes sense.
 
I agree with you, Amy, about Alec and Celia being boring, flat characters. That is how I felt about every character in the book, aside from, Margret, who I felt I could relate to the most--maybe because I feel like I have a DH that is a lot like John in some aspects. I thought the game John plays in the row boat is the most F up game ever and as I was reading (listening too :haha:) I was thinking who would do that to kids? It made a lot of sense that it ended up being foreshadowing.

I thought Michael was a little creepy as a kid and as an adult, I felt like he never really grew up. I don't know if that had to do with his mental illness or if it was a side-effect of all the drugs he was on, but, for me, Michael was my least favorite character and every time one of his chapters came up, I thought oh great, now to get creeped out again.

I think you really hit it on the head, Whimsical, when you said that every decision Alec and Celia made as adults were to keep from become like their father.

On a whole, I felt like this book was one of those, skim the surface types books and I ever felt really attached to it.

I also think that Michael's demise was wholly unnecessary. Who would allow their son/bother to take their mentally ill relative into the boondocks and self ween them? IDK but there could have been a lot better solutions to the problem. I also find it strange that Alec doesn't seem to be too guilt ridden by the whole event; but I guess that is in character for him since he always felt that Michael should be dealt with more sternly. I don't think Alec really understood how sick his bother was.


Any other discussions for topics to talk about with this book?
 
which character did you most relate to in the book? (tank you answered this, but it is not somthing i thought about)

im not sure if i can relate to a specific character in the book. i can relate to different situations/elements in the book. like with Margaret, she is always taking care of others. always. and i feel somtimes im like that. with Micheal it was the need to be normal when you "live" in a dark world. with Alec and Celia, they wanted a home, person to be with, family but not at the risk of getting hurt and we all can relate to that. the abortion i had alot of mixed feelings because of ltttc journey.

after you closed the last chapter, what element has remained with you?
i feel sorry for the ones that have to deal with suicide. it is an action that is so simple but the impact it has on others is so profound. To get to that emotional place in life where they choose death as a better option than life, gives you a glimpse of how dark depression can get. it makes you wonder what demons the next person is fighting.

thats all i can think of for now.

Lemons Q

1. i had a hate like feeling to the book. hated the darkness, liked some letters.

2. no favourite character.
 
Tank you are right, I knew Michael was headed for absolute disaster the minute they decided to go "wean" in the boondocks. Pure stupidity but believable as I've had patients do dumber things with their meds :dohh:
 
You know what bothered me more than the fact Alec thought he could just "wean" Michael like that at the end? It was when he made the comment that he could have stopped Michael from drinking, and something to the effect of knowing he should have, but he didn't. I almost felt like Alec wanted to be finished dealing with his brother. Maybe that's why there's not much guilt or remorse from him at the end...? :shrug:
 
:rofl: hahaha Amy and Whimsical, didn’t realize anyone would answer those two questions! :rofl:

Since we’re here:

“Did you like the book?”
Even a month later, I can’t quite tell. It had some parts that really resonated with me, but I also wouldn’t read it again. I guess for me, that puts it as a solid 3/5. So I guess, yes, I liked parts of it, not all of it, but I didn’t love it.

“Who was your favorite character?”
Michael was the biggest character, but I think I had the strongest appreciation for Celia. She was quiet and strong, cared for her brother but recognized her limits.
Alec was super whiny and annoying. His boyfriend was way too good for him. :roll:

Tank's questions:
1) What do you think of the game John plays with the kids in the rowboat?
It completely stressed me out, and also set the stage very well for where his depression would take him and how it would affect his children throughout the rest of the book. Celia would take action to take care of herself, Alec would be whiny but otherwise fine. Michael wasn’t even in the boat; he didn’t have a chance. He was already gone, himself.


2) How do you feel about Michael's dealings with women?
I felt heartbroken on his behalf because he so desperately wanted and needed a sense of normalcy and connectedness with another person, with someone who loved and understood him outside of his family. Mental health issues are incredibly lonely, and this really underscored that well. I couldn’t blame the women for leaving him - he was too intense and they couldn’t possibly understand where he was coming from - but each time, I wanted it to work because it would be at least temporarily good for Michael.


3) How do feel about how the book deals with issue of mental health especially depression?
To me, it felt searingly real, at times actually painful to read in its honest and tense portrayal of both Michael and his family. I feel that it captured the issues facing the family and support network quite well, particularly through Celia’s eyes - debating answering the phone, needing to cut the cord, still always loving her brother, but not being able to be there for him all of the time.

It also raised some questions. Was the author saying that those who have mental illnesses are born with it? A comment the mother (I forget her name, Margaret?) made implied that. I don’t know enough to know either way, but it definitely seemed like a theme; “you are who you were when you were born.”


4) What do you think about the infamous letters? :rofl:
So funny! They built up in such a way that made me think, “Wait, what? Is this happening? This has to be a joke, right? Zomg this is amazing!” They were just so well executed. I’d read a whole book about that crazy cruise line. :rofl:


5) How do you think that Celia and Alec's lives as adults were affected by their father's suicide?
I think it made their edges sharper, if that makes sense. Celia became more independent and self-possessed, and Alec became less so. (Ugh. Alec just annoyed me for most of the book. STOP CARING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK.) But maybe he was just constantly seeking his father’s approval, which he could never get. And Celia never wanted to depend on anyone but herself, because she didn’t want to be let down. It also probably made them more concerned for Michael than they may otherwise have been, knowing what someone with anxiety/depression was up against. However, I don’t understand why Alec took it upon himself to wean the poor guy off his meds without the supervision of a doctor. WTF, bro.
 
tankel said:
I also think that Michael's demise was wholly unnecessary. Who would allow their son/bother to take their mentally ill relative into the boondocks and self ween them? IDK but there could have been a lot better solutions to the problem. I also find it strange that Alec doesn't seem to be too guilt ridden by the whole event; but I guess that is in character for him since he always felt that Michael should be dealt with more sternly. I don't think Alec really understood how sick his bother was.
Click to expand...

amyamyamy said:
Tank you are right, I knew Michael was headed for absolute disaster the minute they decided to go "wean" in the boondocks. Pure stupidity but believable as I've had patients do dumber things with their meds :dohh:
Click to expand...

writingislove said:
You know what bothered me more than the fact Alec thought he could just "wean" Michael like that at the end? It was when he made the comment that he could have stopped Michael from drinking, and something to the effect of knowing he should have, but he didn't. I almost felt like Alec wanted to be finished dealing with his brother. Maybe that's why there's not much guilt or remorse from him at the end...? :shrug:
Click to expand...


YES totally this - wtf was that about? :shock:
 
OK I'm going to say Imagine Me Gone is closed. Who wants to be next?
 
I can go next but I'll need a day or two to find a book. If someone else wants to volunteer before then, go for it, but if not I'll get back to everyone. :winkwink:
 
You've got its this time, WIL. I can go next time. :) (I'll need that long to pick out a book.)
 
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