Breast is not best, language, guilt and lactivism musings

Well, I'll be honest and say I don't think it is wise to give formula to a 5 week old when there are alternatives ;-)

I'll be honest, in this entire thread, i haven't found one single BF mom that i felt was acting superior or rude until this post. :thumbup:
I think there is some confusion over how readily available and quickly sourced donor milk can be in certain places.
Theres nothing wrong with formula. Breast is breast. Breastfeeding isn't always and if a woman chooses to then FF over donor milk that's her decision and there's not a damn thing wrong with it. :thumbup:
Were all feeding our kids, we are all having the same issues and struggles. I quite like that breastfeeding has a slogan, i think its good and its getting more women educated on breastfeeding!
 
We all need to be confident and secure in our parenting choices :)
 
Ok, I'm a little late responding to this thread... I was musing on how to carefully word my response so as to cause the least offence... then the thread got moved and I lost it for a while, and now things have moved on considerably. Now my post has to try and contain what I originally wanted to say, and some responses to what else has been posted, so forgive me if it's a bit jumbled, or if it goes back to the beginning somewhat. So here are my thoughts for what they're worth...

DISCLAIMER:
1) I breastfeed but I am not anti-formula. I combi-fed my little boy for a while (one bottle of formula a day for about 2 months for long reasons that I'm not going to go into here...)
2) In the following examples I'm about to give, I'm referring to women I know, or to general opinion that I have experienced personally, I'm not referring specifically to anyone who has posted here in this thread or elsewhere on the forum!

I think that the breastfeeding statistics (here in the UK where things seem to be particularly bad with regard to this whole baby feeding politics business) are very very sad. And I wish more people breast fed (or 'could' breastfeed or whatever semantics you'd care to use.) The reason I wish more people breastfed are because I love breastfeeding and I wish more women got the chance to experience that, and because it's good for baby. Nevertheless, I do appreciate it's not for everyone and I firmly believe that a happy mummy is better and I am pleased that there is a substitute available so that babies can be fed.

It seems however, that for a lot (not all, and that's fine) of women, they don't breastfeed, because in their words, they 'couldn't' breastfeed. I'm not trying to criticise those women; by using the phrase 'in their words' I'm not trying to imply that they are lying, far from it. Again let me reiterate that this is not a dig at anyone in particular and it's certainly not meant to denigrate the traumas and heartaches that any Mum who has given up must feel. But I draw attention to the word 'couldn't' because what that does imply, is that many of these Mums must have wanted to breastfeed.

So where is the education? Where is the support? Why do so many women give up breastfeeding so early on? (This is the part where I'll start to speak from personal experience as my husband is a number cruncher for the NHS and he has to analyse the bf statistics so I know how appalling they are.) Why is it, when the support is offered, it's often perceived as being "rammed" or "shoved" down the throat? The thread is about language and there are two perfect examples of an ingrained negativity towards breastfeeding - and it's that which I would love to (and which I think most of the contributors to this thread who've stuck on track would love to) redress and rebalance.

So here are the stories of the women that I personally know - one women felt unable to continue to bf as she was too tired. She is a dear friend and I wouldn't dream of saying she was wrong for that decision; it was a difficult decision for her to have made and I respect her reasons for having made that decision at that time, I go back to saying a happy Mummy is best for the family. But I know that this friend now regrets that decision. Where were the women to charge in and support her when she was so tired? Where were the HCPs? Where were the female relatives? Why couldn't I have gone in to help her? (I tried but felt so hyper-sensitive about coming across as critical of her, I backed off - and that's not right.) The point is - we were all too afraid of being labelled breastapo (and I'll come back to this) and of upsetting or offending her, that when she needed support, she didn't get it, or she rejected it, because the whole thing is all so caught up in a mess of guilt and tiptoeing about trying not to cause any offence. (Just look at how hard I'm trying not to cause offence in this post - even though I'm probably failing miserably!)

The second example I want to use is of a woman I spoke to on another forum who queried whether she had enough milk (her baby was at 6 week growth spurt) so her midwife (her midwife!!!) recommended that she not breastfeed for 48 hours, to give her breasts chance to fill up, and then to pump, to get an idea of what her supply was. So the poor woman then believed that she had no milk. I am shocked and appalled by this. Of course she had no milk, she'd not fed for 48hours and pumps are rubbish at getting milk out! There must be lots of women who in all good faith believe they have a poor supply as they've just been given totally the wrong advice by the HCPs. Once again, my disclaimer, I know there are people who do have genuine supply issues, but I'm guessing if this lady is anything to go by, there must be people who don't have real supply issues, they are just getting bad advice.

So what can we do? How can we make the whole baby feeding experience better for everyone, without becoming embroiled in a tangle and tussle of guilt, negativity and bad feeling? And as the OP said right way back when, does the semantics of the whole baby feeding 'debate' (for want of a better word) need to change? Yes, I believe she is right in that.

And while we're talking about language... how is it ok that someone who is passionate about breastfeeding, and who would never condemn another woman's choice but who wishes she was in a position to support that woman if that women wanted her support, gets labelled as a member of the breastapo? As a nipple Nazi? I feel that I am driven by compassion and empathy (perhaps I'm utterly misguided in this belief... I'm sure someone will tell me!) but to be compared with a group of people who committed one of the most horrendous atrocities the world has ever seen??? It's disgusting and abhorrent and deeply offensive and upsetting. It's language again and it's the answer to most of the rhetorical questions I've posed above :(

In my experience I've found that there is a very nasty discriminatory imbalance where it seems ok to put a breastfeeder down, but not ok to breathe a word against a formula feeder (both are equally wrong) and if anyone knows how to change any of this please tell me as I'm there! And finally, sorry this is so long, and much love to all fellow Mums out there. We are blessed to be doing the best job in the world xx
 
Well, I'll be honest and say I don't think it is wise to give formula to a 5 week old when there are alternatives ;-)

I'll be honest, in this entire thread, i haven't found one single BF mom that i felt was acting superior or rude until this post. :thumbup:
I think there is some confusion over how readily available and quickly sourced donor milk can be in certain places.
Theres nothing wrong with formula. Breast is breast. Breastfeeding isn't always and if a woman chooses to then FF over donor milk that's her decision and there's not a damn thing wrong with it. :thumbup:
Were all feeding our kids, we are all having the same issues and struggles. I quite like that breastfeeding has a slogan, i think its good and its getting more women educated on breastfeeding!

But it is okay to tell a Mum she was wrong for sticking with breastfeeding?
 
My issue with people using the excuse that donor milk isn't readily available is that if more women breastfed, and knew the importance of breastfeeding, and demanded it as a service, then milk banks would be invested in, doctors would know it was a safe option (there's still confusion over that in some people's minds) and the availability of human milk would increase.

If instead of 'breast is best' formula cans said 'breastmilk is the normal way to feed a human infant', would that be enough to start to change perceptions?

I also think that some women want to formula feed, regardless of the facts. Trying to reach those women is, initially at least, pointless. The women who want to BF but were let down and left believing that they couldn't continue are surely the ones to focus on first?

I also agree about the 'nazi' type phrases. Because wanting babies to have their natural source of food is so akin to genocide :wacko: it's a shame godwin's law isn't an actual law-whoever first mentions the nazis, loses the argument by default.
 
Well, I'll be honest and say I don't think it is wise to give formula to a 5 week old when there are alternatives ;-)

I'll be honest, in this entire thread, i haven't found one single BF mom that i felt was acting superior or rude until this post. :thumbup:
I think there is some confusion over how readily available and quickly sourced donor milk can be in certain places.
Theres nothing wrong with formula. Breast is breast. Breastfeeding isn't always and if a woman chooses to then FF over donor milk that's her decision and there's not a damn thing wrong with it. :thumbup:
Were all feeding our kids, we are all having the same issues and struggles. I quite like that breastfeeding has a slogan, i think its good and its getting more women educated on breastfeeding!

But it is okay to tell a Mum she was wrong for sticking with breastfeeding?
I wouldn't say telling ANYONE it is wrong for sticking to any feeding choice. You're pretty much saying well if what I say is 'wrong' then so be it because such and such said ... petty or reading it wrong?
 
I wouldn't say telling ANYONE it is wrong for sticking to any feeding choice. You're pretty much saying well if what I say is 'wrong' then so be it because such and such said ... petty or reading it wrong?

I was trying to explain why I found the original comment offensive, when the lady who posted it said she couldn't understand why it was offensive. I did say (or at least I meant to, I am forgetful ATM) that I don't think any woman should be told she is wrong in her feeding choice. I obviously didn't do a good job though, explaining it. I've been told i was wrong for carrying on breastfeeding, as have lots of ladies I know, and I was trying to highlight how it isn't fair to say that, as it is widely accepted that it isn't fair to tell someone it was wrong to switch to formula.
 
I think it's safe to say that method of getting your point across isn't the best :D

I hate these discussions and haven't read every page so that's why I asked if I was reading wrong.
 
I understand the whole language thing but it works both ways

The bfeeders dont like the terms used to describe them which I would never use, out of interest is Lactivist ok?

As a women who formula fed, I dont like the term artificial feeding and when people say the risks of ff.
 
My issue with people using the excuse that donor milk isn't readily available is that if more women breastfed, and knew the importance of breastfeeding, and demanded it as a service, then milk banks would be invested in, doctors would know it was a safe option (there's still confusion over that in some people's minds) and the availability of human milk would increase.

.

I help run the milk sharing for Northern Ireland, pretty big thing elsewhere in the world as we have one milk bank in the whole or Ireland which is on the other side of the country and not accessible for all. We had one droner since starting in October 2011 and she ended up dumping it. No one would take it here. :nope: We never had a match and I think the southern page which is up longer has had 2 matches. Doner milk isnt regarded nicely at all in some places. There seems to be an air of suspicion around it.
 
I understand the whole language thing but it works both ways

The bfeeders dont like the terms used to describe them which I would never use, out of interest is Lactivist ok?

As a women who formula fed, I dont like the term artificial feeding and when people say the risks of ff.

Can I ask why you don't like the term artificial feeding?
 
I understand the whole language thing but it works both ways

The bfeeders dont like the terms used to describe them which I would never use, out of interest is Lactivist ok?

As a women who formula fed, I dont like the term artificial feeding and when people say the risks of ff.

Can I ask why you don't like the term artificial feeding?

To me it means tube feeding
 
in regards to the "breast is best" slogan- over here it is illegal to advertise in any way baby formula- in fact all anyone talks about over here when you are pregnant is breastfeeding- So there is no sneaky advertising- no samples no nothing- the only time you get any advertising is when you pick up a tin. The majority of women over here attempt breastfeeding- the issue is for us is sustaining it. And for me- the term "breast is best" over here has a vastly different weighting. It basically is breast is best - formula is to be avoided. In Australia at least- the majority of women are well and truly aware of the "risks" of formula- I don't know any new mum who wasn't. So for me- i complete the sentence breast is best with formula is bad not formula is a good alternative. I don't need highly emotive "articles" comparing children to maltreated livestock to make an informed decision.
 
I understand the whole language thing but it works both ways

The bfeeders dont like the terms used to describe them which I would never use, out of interest is Lactivist ok?

As a women who formula fed, I dont like the term artificial feeding and when people say the risks of ff.

Can I ask why you don't like the term artificial feeding?

To me it means tube feeding

I sort of see your point, but formula is an artificial (as in, manufactured) breastmilk substitute. I think it's actually the scientific term.
 
I understand the whole language thing but it works both ways

The bfeeders dont like the terms used to describe them which I would never use, out of interest is Lactivist ok?

As a women who formula fed, I dont like the term artificial feeding and when people say the risks of ff.

Can I ask why you don't like the term artificial feeding?

To me it means tube feeding

I sort of see your point, but formula is an artificial (as in, manufactured) breastmilk substitute. I think it's actually the scientific term.

I would prefer substitute over artificial :thumbup:

Also I have never heard of formula being given in free samples in the uk, you cant even get it in hospitals
 
I understand the whole language thing but it works both ways

The bfeeders dont like the terms used to describe them which I would never use, out of interest is Lactivist ok?

As a women who formula fed, I dont like the term artificial feeding and when people say the risks of ff.

Yes, lactivist is fine, I would call myself a lactivist. I think the difference is that "artificial feeding" and "risks" are factual terms used in medical and scientific literature. Things like "breastapo" and "breastfeeding nazi" are just extremely offensive.
 
In the hospital here its noted as Artificial feeding on computers when a mum is asked how shes feeding I remember seeing that when a midwife was entering in details when I was pregnant with Alex.
 
I understand the whole language thing but it works both ways

The bfeeders dont like the terms used to describe them which I would never use, out of interest is Lactivist ok?

As a women who formula fed, I dont like the term artificial feeding and when people say the risks of ff.

Can I ask why you don't like the term artificial feeding?

To me it means tube feeding

I sort of see your point, but formula is an artificial (as in, manufactured) breastmilk substitute. I think it's actually the scientific term.

I would prefer substitute over artificial :thumbup:

Also I have never heard of formula being given in free samples in the uk, you cant even get it in hospitals

It's illegal here to give free samples of formula. The American govt wants to ban formula samples there too to try and improve BFing rates, but it really doesn't seem to make much difference here.

I do think it's right that hospitals are starting to only give formula in emergencies. If you want to FF from birth, you know you need to bring it in. I don't really see the problem with that, but some people get really upset about it :shrug:
 
I understand the whole language thing but it works both ways

The bfeeders dont like the terms used to describe them which I would never use, out of interest is Lactivist ok?

As a women who formula fed, I dont like the term artificial feeding and when people say the risks of ff.

Can I ask why you don't like the term artificial feeding?

To me it means tube feeding

I sort of see your point, but formula is an artificial (as in, manufactured) breastmilk substitute. I think it's actually the scientific term.

I would prefer substitute over artificial :thumbup:

Also I have never heard of formula being given in free samples in the uk, you cant even get it in hospitals

It's illegal here to give free samples of formula. The American govt wants to ban formula samples there too to try and improve BFing rates, but it really doesn't seem to make much difference here.

I do think it's right that hospitals are starting to only give formula in emergencies. If you want to FF from birth, you know you need to bring it in. I don't really see the problem with that, but some people get really upset about it :shrug:

I dont want to ff from birth but it wouldnt bother me :wacko:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,650,307
Messages
27,144,916
Members
255,759
Latest member
boom2211
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "c48fb0faa520c8dfff8c4deab485d3d2"
<-- Admiral -->