{CLOSED GROUP} Journey to BFP and Beyond!

[KTJ006]

Ok ladies I totally can't stay away. I think I realized I just need to hang out on this thread, and not pay attention anywhere else! I can totally handle that as you guys are so helpful.

Jamie & Leigh - don't stress the age thing. An old coworker of mine turned 41 and just had a baby. People are having babies much later these days! You guys are both still young!

Currently eating a big bowl of chocolate ice cream with malt balls. Yuuuum. I have a crazy workout tomorrow, so in my mind it's justified. Haha.

Hope everyone else is doing well today!

 

[kdmalk]

This is going to be LONG.

Sorry to skip over everyone. I just really need some advice from people who are as obsessed as I am. I am so confused right now that I can't focus on anything else. I have a friend who also had two miscarriages in the last year--the first one was a mmc too (crazy). While chatting about my situation at dinner the other night, she kept suggesting that I see a different doctor because I didn't seem to trust mine (even though I am very fond of her as a person)... And I think she is right.

Here is my issue: Pretty much every way I have seen progesterone prescribed is immediately following ovulation (based on a bunch of internet forums). My doctor didn't give it to me until days after I told her I knew I was pregnant. By the time she believed me and checked my levels, it was at 3. So what bothers me is that there are two methods of thought here. This is based on my research, so correct me if I am wrong. The medical community considers progesterone and miscarriage a "chicken or the egg" puzzle (unless you have truly been shown to have a progesterone issue, and then obviously the progesterone will help). In situations like mine, nobody knows if low progesterone causes the miscarriage of a healthy baby or if an unviable pregnancy causes the progesterone to drop so the body will get rid of it. Because I only had the test after I started spotting, there is no way to know for sure exactly where I fell. Was my progesterone low to begin with and caused the baby to struggle until I ended up losing it? or was there an issue with the baby to begin with and my body was trying to flush it?

So here is the question: I do feel that I should switch doctors because I have always felt that she thinks I am a little nuts/obsessive. I want my doctor to listen to me. I booked an appointment at a new clinic today, but it isn't until Feb. 13. I'll have ovulated by then and I don't really want to skip a cycle. I discovered that some doctors do prescribe the progesterone AFTER the bfp (like my doctor did), but that is also after they discover the low progesterone. I just keep feeling that she prescribed it "wrong" because it is mostly right after O. Now that I know it was low, shouldn't I be taking it the other way? Why didn't she prescribe it that way to begin with? or test me the first time?

Since she prescribed it to use as soon as I had a bfp, should I stick with that? But that means early testing to catch it in time, which I have sworn off. But, then again, now that I know it was that low, will that catch it in time? But then if it was low because the pregnancy wasn't viable, it doesn't matter anyway....

If I should take it after O, there is a part two: Apparently it can't hurt anything to take it if my progesterone is normal, but I don't know how much to take??? If the low P actually caused the miscarriage, 3 is like the lowest number I have ever seen, so I should probably be taking the 3 pills per day she had me taking when she saw my levels... But if it isn't actually low, then I really don't want to be taking that much for no reason (even with the claim that it can't hurt anything). So should I just take the 1 a day she originally said and hope that it is enough to save a viable pregnancy if it is low P?

I am so confused because I don't know if the progesterone is really the problem, but I don't want to waste 2-3 cycles waiting to get it tested at the new doctor. But I am not a doctor and I probably shouldn't be prescribing my own medication. And then the other half of me says that I am educated enough to make sense of the information I have gathered from other people in similar situations and legitimate medical information I have found online, and I have enough information to take it into my own hands until a doctor can properly look at it. Not taking it would be dumb if it can possibly save a pregnancy. And if I didn't take it and lost another one, I would feel at fault. But once again, here I am altering the medication schedule my doctor gave me, which as a lay person, I probably shouldn't do. Am I being stupid right now?

To take it at O, or at bfp, or not at all? I hope this even makes sense to someone other than me. It just needed to be out there.

 

[tcinks]

Glad to see you Kylee . I don't know much about progesterone, hopefully Jamie or Natalie see this soon , as they seem to know a lot more. But what I did want to say is that I think it's a good idea to switch doctors, or get a second opinion at least. What I've learned through this whole process is that doctors do not know everything! Some of them are so sure of themselves and their methods, and you talk to another one and he or she is so sure they are right, and they suggest a totally different thing. At some point I feel like you just have to get the different opinions and go with what you feel is best. Find someone who will really listen to you and try to come to a solution with you. With progesterone, I , like you , have read that most women take it right after a BFP and it's totally harmless. If that's what you think you think is best for you, I say go for it.

 

[Fleur828815]

Kylee, I believe that you should get a second opinion if you don’t trust your doctor 100%. A more understanding doctor will get your levels tested if only to give you some peace of mind. I also tried to convince my doctor to give me progesterone when the baby was measuring behind last time (he refused, saying that it wouldn’t help although he didn’t even get my levels tested). I asked him if he’ll check my levels for the next pregnancy, and he said he doesn’t see the need. I’ve still decided to stick with him because at the end of the day, I DO trust him.
Having said that, I did go behind his back and took progesterone pills for a couple of days, as advised by my friend. However, she had a late loss (19 weeks) and her doctor put her on progesterone as soon as she got a BFP (not after ovulation) because her levels were too low. This friend (a pharmacist) firmly believes that progesterone can’t do any harm, and best case, that they’ll help sustain a pregnancy. So on her advice I took them for 1 or 2 days (2 pills per day, inserted vaginally), but then I stopped after my doctor said they wouldn’t help in my case, and I didn’t want the pregnancy to drag on if it was going to fail anyway.
Sorry, I’ve rambled on, but yes, you should find a doctor you’re more comfortable with, and who will agree to test your levels straight away after your BFP.
I’ve also found some info on this site : https://www.pregnancyloss.info/causes.htm (scroll down to HORMONES). It appears that you should first check if you have a luteal phase defect, and if you do, you need to start taking progesterone 48 hours after ovulation.
Lots of hugs to you, you must be going crazy.

What a weird dream zaycain! Just shows that even our subconscious is taken over by TTC. Do you usually get tender boobs before AF?

Jamie, yeah, I think that over 35 you’re labeled as “advanced maternal age” or something! When I was younger I also thought in your 30’s was on the late side to have babies lol, I wanted to be done before I was 30. Here I am, 33 next month and I don’t even have my first baby!

Leigh, I also look forward to weekends, but they go by too fast haha. Do try SMEP this month if you can, every other day from CD10 till you get your +ve OPK, then you’ve got a “stock” even if you ovulate on the day you get the +ve OPK. My friend is a doctor and told me to BD every day from CD 10 to 20 (my cycles ranged between 27 and 33 days before the miscarriage). It’s exhausting but it worked the first time I tried this, although it doesn’t mean anything because this time it didn’t work. I’m not looking forward to doing that for months and months…

Katie, I’m glad you decided to come back! Yep, you totally deserved that bowl of ice cream.

Terrissa, how are you? Still getting the urge to test?

I stupidly caved and tested this morning (10/11 DPO) although I have NO reason to believe I could be pregnant (on the contrary, I’m feeling just like I did before AF last month – no symptoms at all), and of course I got a stark negative. Serves me right to get my hopes up for nothing! AF will be here by Friday/Saturday IF I did indeed ovulate.

 

[tcinks]

Well Fleur, I tested this morning. :doh: I knew it wouldn't be positive, I just was thinking about nothing else except testing, so I just did it! Only 5dpo. I actually feel much like I did before my last BFP (besides the fact that I don't have sore boobs yet)....I don't know, could just be me getting my hopes up. Testing again in a few days.

I started my classes yesterday, college algebra and public speaking. So far my professors and classmates all seem very nice, so hopefully it's a good semester!

 

[jlw617]

Kylee-I think your friend is right, it seems like you may have been close to your last doctor but some of the things you said made it seem like you didn't completely trust her opinion and sometimes having a doctor that you don't have a personal relationship with can actually be a good thing even though you should definitely feel comfortable with if that makes sense. on the progesterone topic I strongly strongly believe the majority of women especially women that are TTC need it but even women that are not TTC, there is just so much positive benefits to it that I plan on using it the rest of my life especially with all of the added soy to The foods we eat now so many women are estrogen dominant and need progesterone, one weird thing (but good) that has happened which I have heard of happening before since I've started using it is my breasts used to be very lumpy if that makes sense (sounds kind of gross) but since I've been using the progesterone they are no longer lumpy and I was at high risk for breast cancer becausemy maternal grandmother got it and died of it before she turned 60 anyhow if you do your research you will find that natural progesterone which comes from Mexican yams is the only progesterone you should use-nothing synthetic. I personally don't even tell my doctor that I'm using it now because some doctors either don't believe it's necessary or they want to prescribe extremely high doses or synthetic stuff which I won't touch I will also tell you that the month I started using progesterone consistently was the same month I got my BFP, our bodies progesterone levels drop significantly around that time of ovulation which is why you're actually supposed to take it two to four days before your expected to ovulate so you can start building up those levels and then you take it until either day 26 or day 28 of your cycle and then if you get a BFP you continue to use it throughout your entire first trimester and most women will even take it to the hospital with them when they go into labor because after labor like literally immediately your body starts losing all that progesterone and it's good for you to have it for breast-feeding I personally think it is one of the greatest things you can take and I also have a great trust for my pastor's wife and a natural minded doctor that lives in this area and it is his ministry and he wholeheartedly also believes in progesteronein the end you're the one that has to decide and feel comfortable with it I hope that helps sorry it was a novel! Lol

 

[NDH]

Jamie youve had me googling progesterone now, its not been something I've wanted to toy with but now that you've phrased it that way I'm at least looking in to it. I still don't think in like the idea of a cream though (even a naturally drived one as its still manipulated in a lab). But other methods do take so much longer to establish an estrogen/progesterone balance and I don't want to wait that long so maybe I'll try it just for a couple of months.

What Ive been reading says that you can test your own progesterone levels with a saliva kit you can order online if thst interests you kylee?
Also I read that it can stop milk production so not to take it if breastfeeding, so interesting that your sources say to continue it after birth even. I definitely dont want to do anything that mkght interfere with breastfeeding.

 

[coucou11]

Kylee - first of all, big hugs to you, and so sorry you are suffering through this. I don't know much about progesterone, although from what you are saying I can't imagine why you wouldn't take it from ovulation. Have you asked your current doctor directly about taking progesterone from ovulation? Maybe she would be receptive? I definitely think it's worth talking to the new doctor as well. I would also call the clinic back and see if they had any cancellations - that kind of stuff happens all the time, and you have to stay on the receptionists to get the open spots. Also Fleur makes a good point about the luteal phase defect - I think that is a good indicator of low progesterone after O, so maybe you don't need to be too worried about it if your LP is fine (which it seems to be).

Kate glad to see you back!!

Terrissa don't worry about that test! Way too early to know anything

And Fleur - you are not out yet! Sorry you are not feeling positive this cycle though - I'm hoping for a great surprise BFP for you!

I'm feeling defeated today. I don't know why, but I suddenly feel like, the chances are so slim each month to get pregnant, how does it ever happen at all? And I'm starting to toy with the idea of taking Vitex again, but continuing with it through the first trimester this time instead of stopping like I did last time. I don't know, I just am afraid that with my short LP and my age and the mc, I just don't know how it's going to all come together in the right way. Oh well, I'll try to get a good night's rest and hopefully feel better in the morning. Thanks for listening ladies

 

[Fleur828815]

Terrissa, at least you've got it out of your system. Fingers crossed that you're right and will be getting a BFP in a few days. Glad that your first day of school went well. Do you have classes every day?

Jamie, that was interesting, you seem to have done quite a bit of research about it. Is it easy to source natural progesterone though?

Natalie, I'm usually reluctant to use anything that will interfere with my body but I've used progesterone cream and pills for a couple of months before (not that I know if they helped).

Leigh, thanks but I can feel AF is about to start. At least I'll be able to see if my positive OPK was 2 weeks before AF.
So sorry you're feeling despondent. I also feel like that a lot, the chances are already so slim and I waited till 32 to TTC, only to miscarry, so maybe I used up my chances already? Seeing women much older having healthy pregnancies does encourage me though. Hope you're feeling better today

Kylee, how are you doing? Thinking of you.

 

[jlw617]

Fleur-I actually purchase mine from Amazon (it's completely non synthetic/all natural it called kokoro cream), I woud not promote it as much as I do, except I see a huge difference when I use it consistantly, my very bad Pms and everything that gos with it from mood swings to very bad breast tenderness is almost completely gone when I use it and then my actual period is much more improved as well.

Off of the progesterone rambling, don't give up hope yet! Even though I do believe our fertility has definitely lessened where we are age wise, we are certainly still in the game, so many women are having babies in their 30s now so it's not impossible by any means...not sure if you're eating different at all but one thing I noticed I was doing before I got my last BFP is I was on a very low carb diet carbs are definitely my weakness and from the little bit of research I've done process sugars and carbs are definitely not your friend when you're TTC so I am back to eating a low-carb diet I just feel like I can do and should do as much as I can do on my part and when it is my time to conceive again I will but that is just from my own personal beliefs, and it does give me comfort because there are so many things that I will never understand while on this side of heaven but my heavenly father knows what's best for my life and when it's best for my life

 

[coucou11]

Thanks Fleur! I am feeling better today - it's totally up and down. Best I can do is just try to stay positive and hope for the best and SMEP our brains out hahaha. Sorry about impending AF though We'll get there.

Jamie omg I am totally with you on the refined sugar thing, it is my HUGE weakness. Ugh, I really have to work that out. I think if it helps ttc to reduce carbs/sugar intake, that might be the push I need.

Hope everyone else is doing well! Kate I meant to ask, how did the testing go at your doctors (if you have done it yet)?

 

[Fleur828815]

Jamie, I used to get very sore breasts as well as discharge before AF but since the miscarriage I don't get them anymore, I'm wondering if progesterone levels can just regulate on their own?? I've heard of kokoro cream before, I'll read up on it. I'm definitely not giving up yet although I have my moments of doubt. Carbs and sugary things are my big weakness, it'll be tough to reduce them but I'll give it a try! I do hope it will be your time soon

Leigh, glad you're feeling better and more positive. Good luck with SMEP!

AF turned up today (Friday morning), I wasn't expecting it till Sunday. I got my positive OPK 2 weeks ago, so I'm a bit confused, does that mean I ovulated on the same day? Or I didn't ovulate after all? At least my cycle was slightly shorter this time, 30 days instead of 32.

 

[jlw617]

Fleur-thanks, Ive wondered about the mc doing that as well because the progesterone helps in that area for me but doesn't completely take it away but this last cycle I noticed they were not sore in the slightest so I dont know...anyways I'm not sure I understand your question about ovulation but if you got a positive then you most likely ovulated...

I should O around the 2nd of feb which means I could start testing technically on Valentine's day I'm just hoping I actually O this cycle since I'm pretty sure I didn't with my last one, I've officially been on the low carb thing for 5 days, yay for me but oh man it's killing me to not have all the breads and carbs I like to have!!!!

 

[tcinks]

You ladies have all been so quiet. Hope everyone is doing okay.

I'm so glad it's the weekend, it's been kind of a busy week trying to adjust to being back in school and excessive job hunting. But it's been helpful to keep my mind from obsessing too much during this tww. I'm 7dpo and not really feeling much. I was so hopeful a week ago but now I'm not too sure. I guess time will tell.

How is everyone?

 

[KTJ006]

Kylee: I think if your gut is telling you to see a different doctor, it definitely doesn't hurt to seek one out. I've heard of both people taking progesterone before they get a BFP but also after they get one as well. It all depends on how your levels are during your cycle. I think it's definitely worth waiting a cycle or two while you get them tested. That way your doc can construct a customized plan for you that fits your body's needs without going on assumptions or guessing. I can say that I've 'heard' if you've had a MMC than you likely don't have a progesterone issue. Your body was holding onto the pregnancy and was still showing signs of being pregnant (which is good) even though the baby had already passed. Not sure if that makes sense. Thinking of you and sending you hugs. I really hope you are doing ok

Fleur: how are you? Sorry AF came. I've found my cycles are shortening with each month and still trying to get back to where they were. I went from ovulating on CD21, to CD14, to CD12. Pretty much where I was before the MMC. Maybe yours are trying to get back to the norm as well?

Leigh: remind me what Vitex is again? Hope your spirits are feeling better. This whole TTC thing is hard on all parts of people- mentally, physically, emotionally. They don't tell you that when you start!!

Jamie: the progesterone thing still intrigues me. I need to look into it more and I forgot to ask my doc about it!! Also, I didn't know about the sugars and carbs interfering with TTC. Why is that? They are both my weakness!!

Terrissa: how are the classes? I hate public speaking. Crazy because I have to give presentations all the time. But I still hate it. Haha. I hope the job hunt lands you something you love. I got suckered into a job for the money. While the money was great, I hated it!

AFM: I had my Hydro and my HSG yesterday. When I did some google searching, it seems some of these terms might be used differently. For me, the Hydro filled my uterus with saline to see if I had any growths (fibroids or polyps) - everything checked out clear here! The HSG was one that used a balloon attached to a catheter to see if my tubes were open into my ovaries (again, using the saline solution). This checked out great too. She said everything was picture perfect. I even got to see my follicles and which side I was going to ovulate. It was soooooo cool!!! The one downside is it still doesn't explain the right side ovary pain I constantly get, but she thinks it might be some nerve damage from the D&C. Oh well. I'm just glad reproductive-wise I'm ok. I am already ovulating...and it's only CD12!!! From my first AF after the MC, I went from ovulating on CD21, to CD14, to now CD12. So my cycles are definitely shortening and getting back to where they were. We will likely miss the egg this month as I have to wait 1-2 days after the test to have intercourse. Stinks, but what can you do?? The tests do make you more fertile for the next 3-6 months (as they clean everything out), so I guess that's good.

Saw waaaaay too many pregnancy announcements this past week on Facebook. I've decided just to stay away for a while. I'm still not in a place where I can rejoice with people (except for you guys - I feel like we have this bond since we are all going through the same thing. So thankful for each of you!).

Hope you ladies are well! Happy weekend

 

[jlw617]

So here's a small excerpt from the huffington post on a study that was done on a lowered carb diet...
Patients whose protein intake represented 25 percent or more of their daily diet, and whose carbohydrate intake was 40 percent or less, had pregnancy rates four times higher than those who ate less protein and more carbs while undergoing in vitro fertilization (the joining of a woman's egg and a man's sperm in a laboratory before transferring the resulting embryo to her womb).
There is a lot more info but this is a good little blurb about it, 4 times more likely is a pretty decent raise in odds and that's with carb intake being under 40%, I don't know that I'd do a complete no carb while ttc but I know right now and before when I had gotten my bfp, I was having less than 15%...

Wow! Sounds crazy Katie! Was it painful? I know it was probably uncomfortable at the least, hopefully you'll O right after you and dh get to dtd! If not I'm sure it's nice to know you're more fertile now! I get a lot of right ovary pain too, weird huh? Although this month I've had a decent amount of pretty sharp left ovary pain-oh well.

Well I'm still waiting to O, shouldn't be until around the 2nd of Feb and I feel like time has slowed down to a stop! I want so badly to get my bfp next month!!!! We are moving, staying in Maryland but right now we live in a house with no backyard and it's killing me to not let my kids go out and just play, also I've decided to start the process in getting a license to open up a daycare in my home, we have a lot of debt we need to pay off but I need to be home with my kids so this is the best way for me. I won't be able to open it until probably October lol because the licensing process takes a few months and then we go to Idaho in June and if I do get pregnant I'll need atleast a month to get adjusted to the new baby. Hope everyone has a nice weekend!

 

[KTJ006]

Jamie: Hope getting licensed goes smoothly! Good for you for making things happen and being so entrepreneurial! I'm sure you'll feel very achieved once it's over and done with. A friend tried to get licensed but she didn't have a fenced in yard (one of the requirements here in NC) so she had to put it on hold. As far as the procedures goes, I wasn't uncomfortable or in pain at all! I was very surprised. I had read on Google that a lot of people had cramping or it was "the worst pain they've ever experienced" so I was super nervous going into it (I should not have Googled!). However I was totally fine. My doc said it's because I've been pregnant before so my uterus is used to having things in it Haha. But I felt very lucky to have such a good experience (and my doctor absolutely rocks too! She was the one that did the D&C and just happens to be an infertility specialist, so she knows her stuff!).

Hope everyone is having an awesome weekend! I gotta do some major grocery shopping tomorrow! Oh, I bought a new pair of compression running pants and holy moly!!! Not sure if it was from them holding my muscles together very firmly, but I was able to crank out my fastest run per mile yesterday! I was super excited. It's the little things

 

[Fleur828815]

Jamie, maybe our bodies and progesterone levels etc. do change after a miscarriage ? I don’t spot before AF anymore but it’s heavier for the first 2/3 days, and lasts longer than previously.
I thought you ovulate 1 or 2 days after a +ve OPK, so expected AF to come 15-16 days after the +ve. I got it 14 days after so thought I might not actually have ovulated. Sorry, it’s a bit confusing!
4 times more likely to fall pregnant sounds almost too good to be true, those are great odds! Low carbing might be the way to go, I hope it works for you and that you’ll get your Valentine’s BFP.
Good luck with getting the licence for the daycare, that’s a fab job idea while still keeping your kids at home.

Terrissa, hope you had a relaxing weekend and didn’t obsess too much

Katie, I’m glad that the procedure wasn’t painful for you. Yay for everything looking good and ovulating soon! It’s good that your cycles are going back to your pre-MC “normal”. Fingers crossed that you’ll fall pregnant quickly now.
My cycles used to vary from 27 to 31 days before the miscarriage so ovulation day differed from month to month, but I’m happy my cycles are going back to the shorter end, and doubly happy to get a positive OPK at least (I didn’t get one last month).

Well, I temped for the first time and I don't think it's going to work out for me! Before I went to bed I psyched myself up about how I have to do it as soon as I'm awake... So I go to bed around midnight, wake up and pop the thermometer straight into my mouth, THEN I check the time : 1.50 a.m! Temp was 36.75 degrees Celsius / 98.15 Farenheit. Went back to sleep, woke up again and same thing, popped the thermometer into my mouth without even opening my eyes and checked the time after that : 5.19 a.m! Temp 36.05 degrees Celsius / 96.89 Farenheit. Isn't that low? I sleep with my mouth open. I didn't temp again when I woke up for real at around 9 a.m. Does it have to be at the same time every day?

Kylee, still thinking of you.

Hope everyone is doing well and having a good weekend.

 

[jlw617]

Katie-that's awesome about your running time I will have to look into that if I ever get into running LOL I actually think I would enjoy it but the area I live in is difficult for running and I'm a chicken ha ha!


Fleur-yeah I agree my cycle has definitely been different after MC. as far as the OPK's go I would not judge the amount of time in between ovulating and CD one as to whether or not you actually O'd if that makes sense especially because on the topic that our cycles are different after MC your cycle could just be shorter than normal you know it I mean if you got a positive then you probably did O and normally my cd one is anywhere from 12 to 14 days after I get a positive which could be anywhere from 10 to 12 days after I actually O but everybody cycles are different especially after MC

 

[NDH]

Fleur I always ovulate the day of a positive opk which isn't the norm. But LP, while typically constant for each individual unless hormones have suddenly been thrown off balance (ie miscarriage) does vary widely between person to person. A healthy woman can have a luteal phase between 10 and 16 or so days. Anything less than 9 is a luteal phase defect and can prevent a pregnancy from successfully implanting. So whether you ovulated on the day of the positive and had a 14 day LP or ovulated two days later and had a 12 day LP really can't be determined without temping to confirm, but in the long run doesn't really matter as its a sufficient length.