Dealing with azoospermia?

[AuCa]

He probably has a reason why he's reluctant to go for further tests. It could be denial or embarrassment or anything else.

Well said. It might be both (I know for sure that my DH feels both).
I'm very sorry to hear that your husbands are so reluctant to get tested/see a specialist Awifey and Verity Belle I really hope they will come around.

Hopeful Cat - honestly, not all specialists always know what they're talking about/agree on results/outcomes. The 3 we talked so far all gave us different opinions. It can be very frustrating. But that's why I think it's always a good idea to get a 2nd/3rd opinion and never just believe one doc/go with what he/she says.
And the wait is really frustrating


AFM - had our consult at the local fertility clinic today. I was not at all impressed with the doc (very rude, dismissive, didn't even say hi when he entered the room), and was actually really depressed afterwards (now I know why the got those infertility counselors there - because you need one of them after you see one of their docs ). I'm still quite upset, but maybe I just need time to process.
He didn't really explain much of anything, just ordered more tests, said that we "probably have enough sperm for ICSI", but wants to do another SA with an ICSI prep (I guess it's kind of a trial run, pretending that it's real IVF, to see what they can get). And also told me that he won't treat us until I've seen a hematologist, since I had a slightly elevated platelet count. I'm a little irritated by this, because my GP told me that it's really not that high and nothing to worry about. And now my GP is on vacation, and I can't even see her to get a referral for weeks. And once I get a referral it'll probably take months to actually see a hematologist.
I just can't believe that now we'll have to wait around because of me, and probably for no reason at all

In the meantime we signed up for the mandatory IVF info session (May 30 was the earliest we could book) and went on the IVF waitlist. I don't think anything is going to happen before summer though. I am so annoyed today.

 

[MrsG30]

He probably has a reason why he's reluctant to go for further tests. It could be denial or embarrassment or anything else.

Well said. It might be both (I know for sure that my DH feels both).
I'm very sorry to hear that your husbands are so reluctant to get tested/see a specialist Awifey and Verity Belle I really hope they will come around.

Hopeful Cat - honestly, not all specialists always know what they're talking about/agree on results/outcomes. The 3 we talked so far all gave us different opinions. It can be very frustrating. But that's why I think it's always a good idea to get a 2nd/3rd opinion and never just believe one doc/go with what he/she says.
And the wait is really frustrating


AFM - had our consult at the local fertility clinic today. I was not at all impressed with the doc (very rude, dismissive, didn't even say hi when he entered the room), and was actually really depressed afterwards (now I know why the got those infertility counselors there - because you need one of them after you see one of their docs ). I'm still quite upset, but maybe I just need time to process.
He didn't really explain much of anything, just ordered more tests, said that we "probably have enough sperm for ICSI", but wants to do another SA with an ICSI prep (I guess it's kind of a trial run, pretending that it's real IVF, to see what they can get). And also told me that he won't treat us until I've seen a hematologist, since I had a slightly elevated platelet count. I'm a little irritated by this, because my GP told me that it's really not that high and nothing to worry about. And now my GP is on vacation, and I can't even see her to get a referral for weeks. And once I get a referral it'll probably take months to actually see a hematologist.
I just can't believe that now we'll have to wait around because of me, and probably for no reason at all

In the meantime we signed up for the mandatory IVF info session (May 30 was the earliest we could book) and went on the IVF waitlist. I don't think anything is going to happen before summer though. I am so annoyed today.

Hiya Hun

wow- thats a lot for you to take. That doc sounds awful!!! you would think in the situations were in they would be patient and sympathic. Im yet to experience a rud Doc or FS just a reception lady so far an that made me annoyed enough so i feel for you.

Just do as thy say hun and give it your best shot- try and enjoy your waiting time.

Does hubby need SSR or is there enough in his SA? xxxx

 

[Soili]

AuCa, really sorry about the doc you have to deal with! Ours is not exactly super warm person either. I've learned to not rely on them for moral support though. I listen and take notes of their procedure protocols, the hoops we're going to need to jump through, and the timelines to expect. I try not to get emotionally involved at all during consultations.

It is true that they seem to have those therapists and counselors to actually properly answer your questions and address your concerns We had a mandatory IVF consult with a therapist in September. I was afraid it'd be like some sort of shrink appointment. But she basically was there to fill us in on how things work, what to expect, all the stuff FS didn't wanna go into much detail explaining. It was quite nice to be able to just talk like normal people do LOL

 

[MrsG30]

Girls-
Ive been reading back through this thread and it seems FS do different things, can anyone advise me what will be coming for us next (just a idea).
Ive had my bloods and scans and have polycysytic looking ovaries and Im taking met which seems tto be controlling it. FS says Im not issue and ovulation can be induced if need be?
DH has Azoo, FSH 35.1, on the low TEST, Not a CF carrier and Chromo tests all normal.
We have an app on the 9th May to see a urologist and this where im confused as what will happen next? What should we be asking?
Whates tests are next?
The FS said we wont be seeing her again until the urolgist is finished with us?

My main concern is if we wait a while for the urolgist to do his bit (Weve been told its a 9 month wait for some of the procedures) and we dont get any swimmers and have to go to donor, I dont want to start the donor process then I would rather start is now even just as a backback.

Hope that makes sence- Mind is in overdrive today.

Hope all you ladies are OK XXX

 

[AuCa]

Hiya Hun

wow- thats a lot for you to take. That doc sounds awful!!! you would think in the situations were in they would be patient and sympathic. Im yet to experience a rud Doc or FS just a reception lady so far an that made me annoyed enough so i feel for you.

Just do as thy say hun and give it your best shot- try and enjoy your waiting time.

Does hubby need SSR or is there enough in his SA? xxxx

Thanks MrsG
I'm still upset, and every time I think about it I get a huge headache. Ugh.

As for your question - we don't know for sure yet. The doc said he suspects that DH has "hypospermatogenesis".
I just did some reading, and I believe there is 3 major causes for testicular failure (somebody correct me if I'm wrong pls) : Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome (where the testes only have Sertoli cells, but no other cells), spermatogenic arrest (where development of sperm is affected), and hypospermatogenesis (where all cells are present, but for some reason the testes produce only very little mature sperm, or none at all).

The only way to diagnose it for sure is to do a biopsy. DH always has a few sperm in his SA (5 total this time, so really few, but not zero). We asked the doc if he thinks that we would have enough for an IVF ICSI cycle, and he told us that likely yes, but not sure. He said we need to do an "ICSI prep" (have an appt for it after Easter). Essentially DH has to go to the lab, produce his sample, and they will treat it as if we were going to do IVF. Not sure what they do, but I guess they spin everything down, wash it, do a detailed analysis etc. And that will tell us if he'll need SSR or not.

 

[MrsG30]

Hiya Hun

wow- thats a lot for you to take. That doc sounds awful!!! you would think in the situations were in they would be patient and sympathic. Im yet to experience a rud Doc or FS just a reception lady so far an that made me annoyed enough so i feel for you.

Just do as thy say hun and give it your best shot- try and enjoy your waiting time.

Does hubby need SSR or is there enough in his SA? xxxx

Thanks MrsG
I'm still upset, and every time I think about it I get a huge headache. Ugh.

As for your question - we don't know for sure yet. The doc said he suspects that DH has "hypospermatogenesis".
I just did some reading, and I believe there is 3 major causes for testicular failure (somebody correct me if I'm wrong pls) : Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome (where the testes only have Sertoli cells, but no other cells), spermatogenic arrest (where development of sperm is affected), and hypospermatogenesis (where all cells are present, but for some reason the testes produce only very little mature sperm, or none at all).

The only way to diagnose it for sure is to do a biopsy. DH always has a few sperm in his SA (5 total this time, so really few, but not zero). We asked the doc if he thinks that we would have enough for an IVF ICSI cycle, and he told us that likely yes, but not sure. He said we need to do an "ICSI prep" (have an appt for it after Easter). Essentially DH has to go to the lab, produce his sample, and they will treat it as if we were going to do IVF. Not sure what they do, but I guess they spin everything down, wash it, do a detailed analysis etc. And that will tell us if he'll need SSR or not.

What biopsy diagnoses which of the 1? and is 1 worse than the other ( sorry if i sound stupid )

So is the prep pretty much what would happen in ICSI? If they get something from his sample you will go for it without the SSR if they dont or its not good enough they will do the SSR?

My Hubby never has any in his SA so i think my process will be different?
Ive heard some horror stories about urology just thinking the SSR is "not worth it" I hope we can make that decision ourselves xxx

 

[awifey]

Ladies,
Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

 

[AuCa]

What biopsy diagnoses which of the 1? and is 1 worse than the other ( sorry if i sound stupid )

So is the prep pretty much what would happen in ICSI? If they get something from his sample you will go for it without the SSR if they dont or its not good enough they will do the SSR?

My Hubby never has any in his SA so i think my process will be different?
Ive heard some horror stories about urology just thinking the SSR is "not worth it" I hope we can make that decision ourselves xxx

You don't sound stupid, don't worry
The biopsy could tell which one he has (so, 1, 2, or 3). And yes, I think some of them are "worse" than others (as in "probability to find sperm), but it also depends again (even if you have one type, there is varying degrees of severity).

Yes, if they get enough we probably won't do SSR.
And yes, I would assume your husband would probably have to do SSR either way, and see if they can find something.

 

[Soili]

Ladies,
Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

Please, don't be offended. But it sounds like you're blaming him. I know it must be frustrating that he doesn't seem to want to deal with the situation. Try to see it from his side. He wanted to have children with you, and now he's facing a probability that it might not happen (at least not without invasive medical procedures). It's a LOT for a guy to deal with. Especially if he senses that your relationship could be threaten in some way or that you're holding a grudge against him.

You gotta try to have a heart-to-heart conversation about his fears and give him a lot of reassurance. Otherwise, it's a wait game until he comes around.

Again, I really hope I didn't offend you in any way. Just trying to help. It's not an easy thing to deal with.

 

[AuCa]

Ladies,
Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

Mine won't talk about it either, and also refuses to read anything related to the topic. Luckily he does go for all the tests etc though (because in reality he wants a bio child more than I do).

When did you get your diagnosis again? I do understand that it is a trauma for a guy, and hard to deal with, but I also think that he needs to acknowledge that he is still in a relationship with you. Which means anything he does (or doesn't do) affects you too. Honestly, I think women tend to take on all the burden themselves, are understanding and supportive. But often men don't return these efforts. And I think that's the situation you are in.Your DH is so hung up with himself, that he doesn't realize that you are in this too. Everybody always says "infertility is a couple's problem" - then BOTH people should be in it!

I think I have a different opinion than Soili (no offense either) - I think the process should be truly a couple's process. Men can't just do what they always do and close themselves off the world and ignore everything. There has to be some sort of openness and communication about it, in the end we are their wives/partners, not some random people on the street. And we are implicated in the whole thing too (in the end WE will have people poking around in our private parts, not the guys).

 

[Soili]

I never did deny it was a couple's process. In fact I think the only way a couple could survive through infertility diagnosis, is if they work together. But in my opinion it's not going to work out if there's any sort of blame or finger pointing, even if it's unspoken.

Not all people are the same. When presented with a problem, some jump right in and want to fix it. Others need more time to process and might need help to deal with certain emotions and obstacles. What I was saying was that a heart-to-heart conversation and some reassurance might help to get things moving along.

 

[AuCa]

I never did deny it was a couple's process. In fact I think the only way a couple could survive through infertility diagnosis, is if they work together. But in my opinion it's not going to work out if there's any sort of blame or finger pointing, even if it's unspoken.

Yes, you're definitely right about that, no denying about it. I didn't get the feeling that awifey was blaming him though (but these things are obviously really hard to judge in the online world).

Not all people are the same. When presented with a problem, some jump right in and want to fix it. Others need more time to process and might need help to deal with certain emotions and obstacles. What I was saying was that a heart-to-heart conversation and some reassurance might help to get things moving along.

You are also right that people deal with difficult situations differently. I do wonder though if reassurance and heart-to-heard conversations work with (certain types of) men though, as I find that they tend to close themselves off (mine is like that, awifey's seems to be like that too). Did it work for you guys?
I can just say that I've give mine reassurance non-stop, and he still refuses to face the issue. Don't get me wrong, that's completely his right (if that's his way of coping). At some time point that doesn't work anymore though. Depending on where in your journey you are, he just will HAVE to come around and face it, as I have no intention to go through IVF with a non-supportive partner who does not want to talk about anything. So, all I'm saying is that at some time point WE need their support too, and they gotta get off their "this is my problem"-train and realize that it's our problem.

 

[AuCa]

PS- I also did not want to offend you Soili, sorry if I did We maybe just have different opinions on this. I might be wrong, who knows...

 

[sdb123]

My DH has had two SA, which my OB/GYN ordered, come back showing zero sperm. We were referred to a reproductive resource center a few hours away.
I have called around like a maniac to find someone locally that can preform the initial blood tests and physical exams.... whatever is the first step.
Success today with getting into a urologist at the end of next month!

One question that I have for you ladies:
He had taken double doses (which the bottle said you could do) of some testosterone pill a couple of week before the first SA. Bless him for doing it thinking that it would help the situation. Now, he thinks this is the reason for the results.
Logically, I am thinking that we have tried for 17 months without success. The likely hood of one week of this dropping a normal count to zero is slim to none. I guess it's be possible that he had a very low count before and this is what killed the rest off? I don't know.

Any input or experience with this???
I am tempted to go back and read every post on this thread....

 

[Soili]

PS- I also did not want to offend you Soili, sorry if I did We maybe just have different opinions on this. I might be wrong, who knows...

Not at all, hun! We're all just trying our best to help each other.

AuCa, I'll be honest, I didn't consider situation where a partner doesn't want to discuss things, because he's focused on it being "his problem" only! I now get exactly what you're saying!

If that's the case, awifey, I sincerely apologize for my wrong assumptions!

 

[AuCa]

Hi sdb123,

and sorry that you have to join this thread
Glad that you found a local urologist who can get you guys started (as this process takes forever anyway).

About the testosterone - I am really not sure about this, but I would think that the testosterone would only affect future sperm production. Sperm production takes months (I think something like 72 days or so), so my thinking is that any sperm that he would have had at the SA would already have been produced 2-3 months earlier. Hope that makes sense. Hence I don't think the zero sperm came from the testosterone. I think the testosterone shuts down sperm production, it does not kill the sperm a guy already has (that's my understanding).

PS - I guess it depends how many weeks before the SA exactly he took it..do you know?

 

[Chickensoup85]

they gotta get off their "this is my problem"-train and realize that it's our problem.

I completely agree with this statement. Soon after the initial diagnosis my husband very much felt like this and would say things like, "it's got nothing to do with you." or, "it doesn't affect you anyway." mainly in reference to various appointments. This actually upset me more than anything that he couldn't see that it is "our" problem, not his.

 

[awifey]

Ladies,
Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

Please, don't be offended. But it sounds like you're blaming him. I know it must be frustrating that he doesn't seem to want to deal with the situation. Try to see it from his side. He wanted to have children with you, and now he's facing a probability that it might not happen (at least not without invasive medical procedures). It's a LOT for a guy to deal with. Especially if he senses that your relationship could be threaten in some way or that you're holding a grudge against him.

You gotta try to have a heart-to-heart conversation about his fears and give him a lot of reassurance. Otherwise, it's a wait game until he comes around.

Again, I really hope I didn't offend you in any way. Just trying to help. It's not an easy thing to deal with.

I m not offended. I am just frustrated that he avoids the discussion, especially whilst we are in a country where we have great medical insurance and the tests and procedures are a small fraction of what they cost in the US, to which we are returning in about 3 months. There is no grudge here, our relationship has no threats from this.

Ladies,
Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

Mine won't talk about it either, and also refuses to read anything related to the topic. Luckily he does go for all the tests etc though (because in reality he wants a bio child more than I do).

When did you get your diagnosis again? I do understand that it is a trauma for a guy, and hard to deal with, but I also think that he needs to acknowledge that he is still in a relationship with you. Which means anything he does (or doesn't do) affects you too. Honestly, I think women tend to take on all the burden themselves, are understanding and supportive. But often men don't return these efforts. And I think that's the situation you are in.Your DH is so hung up with himself, that he doesn't realize that you are in this too. Everybody always says "infertility is a couple's problem" - then BOTH people should be in it!

I think I have a different opinion than Soili (no offense either) - I think the process should be truly a couple's process. Men can't just do what they always do and close themselves off the world and ignore everything. There has to be some sort of openness and communication about it, in the end we are their wives/partners, not some random people on the street. And we are implicated in the whole thing too (in the end WE will have people poking around in our private parts, not the guys).

Thank you for your support. I did try and bring up a donor with him once, and he said we're not there yet. He's the last male of his line and would like to carry it on, despite that he has recently admitted to being bipolar, has been adhd, and deals with high cholesterol (hereditary in his skinny family), and poor eyesight.

I love him to pieces. I'd just feel better being able to talk things through.

The feedback from all of you has helped me some. I am going to make a concerted effort to not get weepy when I see the couples on tv having babies, or find out my family members are pregnant. I hadn't been realizing how that put pressure on his already down-ness due to having the contributing factor to our infertility.

 

[BrandyRelax]

Ladies,
Dh just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He was the one in the relationship who originally brought up babies. It took awhile, but I finally got on board. Now that he found zero sperm in his SA he won't even talk about it. I bought a book for men about male infertility, he won't read it. I try to bring up conversations about it and ask what we will do next and he either ignores me or gets upset and walks away. Sometimes I wait a few days to weeks between convos, sometimes I try daily. It doesn't seem to matter. I am really frustrated, he got me to the point where I want kids, and now that he has a problem he is ignoring it.

I just wanted to share with you my experience.

We found out in May 2012 about his diagnosis, and only got an appointment with the urologist in November 2012. My hubby doesn't want to read anything much on the topic, and at first, didn't really talk about it much. At the early stages, I just let him work it out, just letting him know that regardless, we're good. I wouldn't trade him for the world, and I made sure he knew it.

As we got closer to the mTESE, we just focused on the surgery and the hope of finding sperm. At this point, we talk about it intermittently, but more about whether donor is really an option for us (which it likely will be), but it depends on the person as to how they deal with it. Sometimes you just need another person to give you another perspective. I know that one thing that helped us was talking to a counsellor at the fertility clinic. She really understood the situation and hit on the key issues and gave us a different perspective and things to think about. For us, it was particularly helpful with respect to donor sperm - I was looking at it as half adoption, but in essence, it's really just a donation from an anonymous person who allows us to be parents, I just happen to share genes, and my hubby won't, but genes don't define who is family.

My suggestion would be to give him time. He may just need some time to get through all the feelings he has that he is blaming himself, and worried that it will lead to you not wanting to be with him anymore, on top of thinking no one would want to be with him because he can't have any biological kids.

It's a really hard diagnosis, and especially since it's not common, it's not well understood, so getting support is hard because it's so rare that many people don't understand it.

I hope your hubby comes around soon, but in the interim, perhaps he just needs some space. For my hubby, it was the doctors saying he needed tests that prompted him to do it, so maybe just wait until your next appointment and get the doctor to require certain tests.

 

[sdb123]

Hi sdb123,

and sorry that you have to join this thread
Glad that you found a local urologist who can get you guys started (as this process takes forever anyway).

About the testosterone - I am really not sure about this, but I would think that the testosterone would only affect future sperm production. Sperm production takes months (I think something like 72 days or so), so my thinking is that any sperm that he would have had at the SA would already have been produced 2-3 months earlier. Hope that makes sense. Hence I don't think the zero sperm came from the testosterone. I think the testosterone shuts down sperm production, it does not kill the sperm a guy already has (that's my understanding).

PS - I guess it depends how many weeks before the SA exactly he took it..do you know?

Thank you.
Yes, what you're saying seems logical to me too. He took it a couple of weeks before the first SA.
I feel a little bit of relief just to know that we're actually going to have someone to talk to about it.... whether or not he has the answers.