deafgal01- that's what we are struggling with. IF there was some sort of reassurance that sperm would be found it would be a much easier decision. Our doc says we are at 40-50% but then again maybe not. There's just no way of knowing. And then to go through an entire IVF cycle and my husband to have the surgery AND to possibly toss 25-30k down the drain for nothing is definitely a decision that cannot be taken lightly. We decided to move forward with and IVF consult simply to see how things are sitting on my end. Are you going to use DS or anything like that? Our insurance also does not cover any infertility treatments, so it adds to the already stressful situation.
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Dealing with azoospermia?
- Thread starter Deb111
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deafgal01
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Yes I chose my donor. We decided we rather try one friend first and not the sperm bank. However the costs do add up but I tell myself we would have spent just about the same amount on donor's tests as we would have if we bought sperm from bank.
My breakdown of costs so far
$190- consultation appt with clinic
$330- two 1-hour counseling sessions (one was with donor on phone)
$1700- donor tests (3 sa and physical and lab work)
$200 (plus another $203 this month)- my hsg at surgery center
$330- first IUI
$95- progesterone level blood work
That is what I have had done so far. I will have another $190 consultation appt on Halloween before I proceed with any more iui- my donor has good sa but I was shock by the quality after postwash and freeze & thaw process so I want to review all information and see if we need to up my chances by getting me to release more eggs on medicine.
My breakdown of costs so far
$190- consultation appt with clinic
$330- two 1-hour counseling sessions (one was with donor on phone)
$1700- donor tests (3 sa and physical and lab work)
$200 (plus another $203 this month)- my hsg at surgery center
$330- first IUI
$95- progesterone level blood work
That is what I have had done so far. I will have another $190 consultation appt on Halloween before I proceed with any more iui- my donor has good sa but I was shock by the quality after postwash and freeze & thaw process so I want to review all information and see if we need to up my chances by getting me to release more eggs on medicine.
if only we can get insurance to cover treatment too we would be all set!
Stinas
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Dg - tell me about it. I'm in the hole a good 150k. I got a call from my insurance company today. Apparently it's an ob that would like me to keep her number just in case I need anything. Lol then she went on to congratulate me on my twin pregnancy and how amazing it was for twins twice. These people had I went to full term last preg. I told her that was quite impossible considering I lost them this may. Not to mention my D&C was covered hb insurance.
Interesting how these things work. They have no clue. The lady was pretty much speechless. I told her I have great docs and don't need another one lol
Interesting how these things work. They have no clue. The lady was pretty much speechless. I told her I have great docs and don't need another one lol
Rainbow123
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Stinas - what a doosh that woman who rang you is! Flipping unbelievable!
Spark - My DH and I found out at the same time as you, Jan just gone. We are currently waiting for a date for mTESE. We're going to do a fresh cycle of IVF/ICSI with DS back up, as they wouldn't do a fresh cycle without DS backup and if they DO find any sperm in the mTESE, it is more likely to be usable in a fresh cycle (I believe there is a low chance of thawing azoo sperm after freezing it). We were also given about a 50% chance, and like you the only symptom my DH has is a slightly elevated FSH. It's so difficult to come to terms with using DS, especially when we won't know whether we're using it until right before the ICSI, but we've decided that we definitely want babies and that might be the only way. We have both taken a little bit of time to come round to the idea, but I think we're in a good mind set with it now. The biggest worry I have is telling our family, should we need to use DS. I just don't want them to look at my DH differently, or our baby for that matter. It's such a painful journey, but I think it has brought DH and I even closer than we were before. I know that once we're parents the pain will go away and we won't even think about it any more. There are so many difficult decisions to make on this journey, but you just have to do what's best for you. When are they thinking about doing your DH's mTESE? We've been told the end of this year for us, fingers crossed!
XXXXXXXXXX
Spark - My DH and I found out at the same time as you, Jan just gone. We are currently waiting for a date for mTESE. We're going to do a fresh cycle of IVF/ICSI with DS back up, as they wouldn't do a fresh cycle without DS backup and if they DO find any sperm in the mTESE, it is more likely to be usable in a fresh cycle (I believe there is a low chance of thawing azoo sperm after freezing it). We were also given about a 50% chance, and like you the only symptom my DH has is a slightly elevated FSH. It's so difficult to come to terms with using DS, especially when we won't know whether we're using it until right before the ICSI, but we've decided that we definitely want babies and that might be the only way. We have both taken a little bit of time to come round to the idea, but I think we're in a good mind set with it now. The biggest worry I have is telling our family, should we need to use DS. I just don't want them to look at my DH differently, or our baby for that matter. It's such a painful journey, but I think it has brought DH and I even closer than we were before. I know that once we're parents the pain will go away and we won't even think about it any more. There are so many difficult decisions to make on this journey, but you just have to do what's best for you. When are they thinking about doing your DH's mTESE? We've been told the end of this year for us, fingers crossed!
XXXXXXXXXX
Stinas
Twin Mommy!
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Rainbow - we used TESE sperm...there was no problem with the freeze/thaw process.
I also don't think it's anyone's business if you end up using donor. It's between you and dh. No one needs to know. Not that your ashamed of it, but they will never know what we go through with azoo. Tell people when you feel the time is right or not at all.
I also don't think it's anyone's business if you end up using donor. It's between you and dh. No one needs to know. Not that your ashamed of it, but they will never know what we go through with azoo. Tell people when you feel the time is right or not at all.
deafgal01
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I agree with Stinas. It is not people's business to know about donor or not so totally up to you if you feel comfy with them knowing. It sounds like you are not so I would hold off on telling them such details until at least after you share that with your baby (if it comes down to that). Chances are the baby will look so much like your man and you that it won't cross people's minds that maybe a donor was involved.
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Hi ladies.
Thanks Bubumaci for the advice. I will set-up a gofundme and see if I can raise some money for our fertility meds and the IVF we will be needing. I appreciate it.
I received awful news today. Apparently my grandmother has had cancer for some time but didn't share it with anyone until now. The cancer has started to spread worse. The docs want to start radiation and possibly chemotherapy. They say that with treatment they expect her to live 4 months - 1 year. I am devastated. I keep crying. I always planned on sharing our babies with her. They would be her first great grandkids.
I don't how to cope with bad news anymore. I keep getting more and more bad news.Worst part, my mom had cancer too when I was 14. I had a biopsy of my cervix in Jan 2012 because of abnormal cells. I am scared, angry, sad, heartbroken, you name it, I am feeling it. How do I find the strength to keep on going??
Thanks Bubumaci for the advice. I will set-up a gofundme and see if I can raise some money for our fertility meds and the IVF we will be needing. I appreciate it.
I received awful news today. Apparently my grandmother has had cancer for some time but didn't share it with anyone until now. The cancer has started to spread worse. The docs want to start radiation and possibly chemotherapy. They say that with treatment they expect her to live 4 months - 1 year. I am devastated. I keep crying. I always planned on sharing our babies with her. They would be her first great grandkids.
I don't how to cope with bad news anymore. I keep getting more and more bad news.Worst part, my mom had cancer too when I was 14. I had a biopsy of my cervix in Jan 2012 because of abnormal cells. I am scared, angry, sad, heartbroken, you name it, I am feeling it. How do I find the strength to keep on going??
bubumaci
Mama to a miracle.
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Miki - I really hope that it works. Make sure to put the link in your signature 
I am also so sorry to hear about your Grandma! Unfortunately - there are just some years like that ... (Beginning of May, my Mother was diagnosed with cancer. My paternal Granny died on May 10th, we buried her on the 20th in England ... 25th I drove to Budapest to help look after Mama ... she died 6 days later on May 31st - so both gone in May) ... my miscarriage / misimplantation in August ... Cholecystectomy in September ...
Sometimes, there just seems to be no end to the negative things that hit us - and it just seems to be the pattern, that we are hit with many bad things at once (almost like fate is taunting us to not get back up again).
If I may give you some advice? Cherish the next months that you have with your Grandmother (if she choses not to have the treatment, then support her with her choice - if she chooses to have the treatment, the same) - if there is anything you want to say, make sure its said ... I am sure that there are a number of you who are impacted by the painful eventuality of her leaving this planet physically (I do believe in the soul and certainly when we had our most recent transfer, felt my Mother there stroking my head and holding my hand) - be there for each other. You will go through such a huge amount of different emotions...
Is your Mom OK now? And everything OK with you? I really am so sorry, deeply sorry that you are going through this! You will find the strength, I promise you! And if at times you feel you can't go on - then let yourself feel it. Let yourself grieve in advance. It is physically and emotionally exhausting - but you must allow yourself to go through it. Give yourself a chance to deny the truth, then to start understanding the truth .. be angry, be sad, be frustrated ... and at some point, to start accepting the truth. I think all people go through grief, at different speeds. Please don't suppress it - let yourself work through it, at your pace. And I really hope that you have people around you (DH, friends, family) who will give you the support when you need it ... and who will let you cope with it in your own way!
I wish you much strength and more for what will come!!! And if you want to PM me - anytime!! xxx
I am also so sorry to hear about your Grandma! Unfortunately - there are just some years like that ... (Beginning of May, my Mother was diagnosed with cancer. My paternal Granny died on May 10th, we buried her on the 20th in England ... 25th I drove to Budapest to help look after Mama ... she died 6 days later on May 31st - so both gone in May) ... my miscarriage / misimplantation in August ... Cholecystectomy in September ...
Sometimes, there just seems to be no end to the negative things that hit us - and it just seems to be the pattern, that we are hit with many bad things at once (almost like fate is taunting us to not get back up again).
If I may give you some advice? Cherish the next months that you have with your Grandmother (if she choses not to have the treatment, then support her with her choice - if she chooses to have the treatment, the same) - if there is anything you want to say, make sure its said ... I am sure that there are a number of you who are impacted by the painful eventuality of her leaving this planet physically (I do believe in the soul and certainly when we had our most recent transfer, felt my Mother there stroking my head and holding my hand) - be there for each other. You will go through such a huge amount of different emotions...
Is your Mom OK now? And everything OK with you? I really am so sorry, deeply sorry that you are going through this! You will find the strength, I promise you! And if at times you feel you can't go on - then let yourself feel it. Let yourself grieve in advance. It is physically and emotionally exhausting - but you must allow yourself to go through it. Give yourself a chance to deny the truth, then to start understanding the truth .. be angry, be sad, be frustrated ... and at some point, to start accepting the truth. I think all people go through grief, at different speeds. Please don't suppress it - let yourself work through it, at your pace. And I really hope that you have people around you (DH, friends, family) who will give you the support when you need it ... and who will let you cope with it in your own way!
I wish you much strength and more for what will come!!! And if you want to PM me - anytime!! xxx
deafgal01
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Also wanted to add regarding your grandma- would she allow you to record her stories on video or cd to share with your future babies? It might help you with being able to share her with your future babies that she misses out on meeting but I assure you she prob knows deep down inside what they would be like!
As for coping- everyone copes with stress or bad news or anything differently. Do you find comfort in doing art like paintings or crochet/knit? Or are you more the type to watch movies or read books to 'escape'? Also important- maybe start doing breathing exercises or visualization/guided imagery to help you clear your mind of the negative and bring in the positive thinking skills.
again I am so sorry to hear about your grandma fighting cancer and being given that timeline but you know drs are wrong sometimes.
As for coping- everyone copes with stress or bad news or anything differently. Do you find comfort in doing art like paintings or crochet/knit? Or are you more the type to watch movies or read books to 'escape'? Also important- maybe start doing breathing exercises or visualization/guided imagery to help you clear your mind of the negative and bring in the positive thinking skills.
again I am so sorry to hear about your grandma fighting cancer and being given that timeline but you know drs are wrong sometimes.
Rainbow123
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Aw Miki, I'm so sorry to hear about your grandma. I agree that all the crappy things seem to come at once, goodness knows why. I agree with all the wonderful advice given already, especially the bit about allowing yourself to grieve. I've found that if I bottle it up, I feel low for a lot longer. If I allow myself a good cry, to acknowledge how I'm feeling and talk it through with DH, I do still feel crappy for a little while but it tends to help me find the way back up again a lot faster. Lots of love XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
Rainbow123
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Thank you Stinas and Deafgal for the sound advice! It's exactly like that - I don't feel ashamed but I just don't think it's anyone's business. My DH's parents don't know what our specific fertility issue is (they actually have implied that they THINK it's my tubes, but we've been pretty tight-lipped about it). They have told DH that we should share the details with them and the rest of the family!!! Invasion of privacy or what!? When DH was so laid back about what they said, I told him that had we become pregnant naturally, we would not gone into detail with them of how we got pregnant! Grrrr! But yeh, I'm still struggling to make these decisions with DH and I think holding off completely until we know for definite what we want to do/say is good advice.
Thank you lovely ladies, it means so much to have your advice! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Thank you lovely ladies, it means so much to have your advice! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Hello ladies. I have been MIA ever since I got my :BFN: This has probably been the hardest thing I have ever been through. I went into a very dark place when I got the results. I couldn't seem to stop crying. Surprisingly, my DH was very optimistic. He keeps saying that he knows the next time it will work. But, its just so hard to know we had five embryos that were genetically ours, and we worked so hard to get them, and now they're all gone. I felt like I lost a child, when I never even was pregnant. No one seemed to understand how I felt, and it also seemed like no one wanted to even talk to me. I know people struggle with knowing what to say, but to feel like your isolated, it almost made me feel like some sort of freak that no one wanted to talk to. Finally, after two major meltdowns last weekend, I finally feel like I am getting back to myself, somewhat. At least, I have stopped crying!
I spent an hour this morning getting caught up. Welcome allie and ophelia. I think you will be comforted knowing there are a group of women at your fingertips who know exactly where you are coming from. It has certainly helped me. I want to thank everyone for the prayers and kind words you sent me through this all.
I want to address a couple of things that came up over the last ten pages I read!!
Diet- So, I have been reading up on this. I think that it may not be the cause, but I think if you change your diet it may help your success for the next round. My accupuncturist recommended a book to me, and I have found it to be an easy read so far. It's called The Infertility Cure, by Randine Lewis. I have completely changed my diet in hopes that I may have healthier eggs next round. So, in a nutshell here's what we are doing:
**No red meat, alcohol or caffeine (This is hard!!! I allow my self two cups of coffee on Sat and Sun as a treat. My accupuncturist said ONE glass of red wine on the weekend may be beneficial, not the whole bottle like I used to do, lol)
*organic meat (chicken)
*salmon
*no processed foods
*veggie/fruit smoothie every morning (If anyone wants ingredients let me know. I replaced my coffee with this. I make them all on Sunday and freeze them for the week ahead)
*almonds, pumpkin seeds, maca nut
*beans
*dark leafy greens
*organic green tea
*red raspberry leaf tea-conditions the uterus
*CoQ10
*prenatal
*ConceptionRX -prenatal for the hubbie, he was also put on chlomid
accupuncture once a week and fertility yoga
mTESE- So some ladies were wondering about this. We did mTESE and they were actually able to find 13 sperm. However, the urologist who did the surgery said they went in three times and found nothing. It was the embryologist at my fertility clinic who actually took the time to dig through all of the tissue at his lab who found it. If we did not have that embryologist, the urologist would've (well he did say) that there was nothing and use back-up donor. Our situation is a little bit different. Our insurance covers both DH and my procedures. My heart completely breaks for you ladies who do not have insurance to cover your procedures. It is completely an added stress and I wish that you did not have to deal with finances, on top of everything else. With that being said, our first round of IVF did not work. So now DH has to have mTESE again, and that same fear has returned wondering if they will find anything this time. It just sucks.
Pregnancies- It seems as though everyone is pregnant!!!!! One of close friends gave birth a week before my :BFN: and my best friend is due Jan 1. Her sister was calling me as I was going through the transer and failure, asking about plans for her baby shower. Now I love her to death but it is the last thing I care to think about. My husband is different. He says we should be happy for them. But it is simply not that easy. What helps me is thinking when I get pregnant (because I have faith that someday our day will come, for all of us!) I want them to be there for me. So I have been trying my best to be a good friend and be there for them. It kills me every time I talk to them about their babies and pregnancies, but I put on a brave face and think, this is only making me stronger. Not to say that I dont curse every other person who announces their pregnancy! Lol.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, but wanted to catch up. I am praying for all of you. Deafgal I am sorry this didn't work this round. Praying for success next round. If I missed anyone I am sorry. Just know that with each failure I say a little prayer for each of you, and with each success my faith grows a little for the rest of us. Keep your heads up ladies. Our day will come and our babies will have all the love in the world.
I spent an hour this morning getting caught up. Welcome allie and ophelia. I think you will be comforted knowing there are a group of women at your fingertips who know exactly where you are coming from. It has certainly helped me. I want to thank everyone for the prayers and kind words you sent me through this all.
I want to address a couple of things that came up over the last ten pages I read!!
Diet- So, I have been reading up on this. I think that it may not be the cause, but I think if you change your diet it may help your success for the next round. My accupuncturist recommended a book to me, and I have found it to be an easy read so far. It's called The Infertility Cure, by Randine Lewis. I have completely changed my diet in hopes that I may have healthier eggs next round. So, in a nutshell here's what we are doing:
**No red meat, alcohol or caffeine (This is hard!!! I allow my self two cups of coffee on Sat and Sun as a treat. My accupuncturist said ONE glass of red wine on the weekend may be beneficial, not the whole bottle like I used to do, lol)
*organic meat (chicken)
*salmon
*no processed foods
*veggie/fruit smoothie every morning (If anyone wants ingredients let me know. I replaced my coffee with this. I make them all on Sunday and freeze them for the week ahead)
*almonds, pumpkin seeds, maca nut
*beans
*dark leafy greens
*organic green tea
*red raspberry leaf tea-conditions the uterus
*CoQ10
*prenatal
*ConceptionRX -prenatal for the hubbie, he was also put on chlomid
accupuncture once a week and fertility yoga
mTESE- So some ladies were wondering about this. We did mTESE and they were actually able to find 13 sperm. However, the urologist who did the surgery said they went in three times and found nothing. It was the embryologist at my fertility clinic who actually took the time to dig through all of the tissue at his lab who found it. If we did not have that embryologist, the urologist would've (well he did say) that there was nothing and use back-up donor. Our situation is a little bit different. Our insurance covers both DH and my procedures. My heart completely breaks for you ladies who do not have insurance to cover your procedures. It is completely an added stress and I wish that you did not have to deal with finances, on top of everything else. With that being said, our first round of IVF did not work. So now DH has to have mTESE again, and that same fear has returned wondering if they will find anything this time. It just sucks.
Pregnancies- It seems as though everyone is pregnant!!!!! One of close friends gave birth a week before my :BFN: and my best friend is due Jan 1. Her sister was calling me as I was going through the transer and failure, asking about plans for her baby shower. Now I love her to death but it is the last thing I care to think about. My husband is different. He says we should be happy for them. But it is simply not that easy. What helps me is thinking when I get pregnant (because I have faith that someday our day will come, for all of us!) I want them to be there for me. So I have been trying my best to be a good friend and be there for them. It kills me every time I talk to them about their babies and pregnancies, but I put on a brave face and think, this is only making me stronger. Not to say that I dont curse every other person who announces their pregnancy! Lol.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, but wanted to catch up. I am praying for all of you. Deafgal I am sorry this didn't work this round. Praying for success next round. If I missed anyone I am sorry. Just know that with each failure I say a little prayer for each of you, and with each success my faith grows a little for the rest of us. Keep your heads up ladies. Our day will come and our babies will have all the love in the world.
Really sorry Miki to hear about your grandmother, so many of us are having one bad luck after the other. Hopefully this is a phase and it will all pass.
An update from me, further bad news, we had been to see Mr Ramsey on Saturday , it was the key sperm analysis after taking tamoxifen for 3 months. The hormones are all at the optimum level, unfortunately they dint find any
I was mentally prepared for this bad news. I am usually a very optimistic person but in this case I think I am more in touch with reality specially after reading about the low success rates. Mr Ramsey said the next step was to go for mtese but with donor back up so that my eggs are not waste and I am not subject to unnecessary risks. We have spoken to him earlier about this and made it clear that we are not prepared for the donor route. but he had to tell us again that from a medical stand point the best way forward was to use donor back up. I was holding my emotions till then but when he said this, I could not hold back again and started crying. I know very embarrassing. DH was strong and he spoke on our behalf and said that we are keen to go for the synchronised mTese knowing full well the risks but dint want to use the donor route. We managed to convince him and now the next steps are for me to go to Lister and see Mr James Nicopolous. His secretary will contact us.
I also told Mr Ramsey that I had been for my ultrasound scan and also done the HSG , for which the results were not that great. He seemed surprised that I was asked to go for something as unpleasant as an HSG when there was no need to know about the status of the tubes as we have no choice but to go down the IVF route given DH condition. and for IVF tubes are not important (does anyone know why?) He has asked DH to take tamoxifen till one week before the surgery, given that we are just coming to Xmas period, January/ Feb seems most likely the date for the synchronised cycle.
Like many of you here, I am keen to know the cause of azoo. I asked Mr Ramsey and he said that , during mTese he will send off some tissue for biopsy and potentially that could give us some answers. He asked us again if DH had undescended testicles , but we dont know . DH parents have never told us anything, DH is planning on asking them soon. I fear I might get very angry if I know that they hid this information from DH. Has anyone experienced this situation before where the parents never told their DH.
@Spark: Whether or not to go for ahead for a mTese knowing the chances are low is entirely upto what you both want to do and offcourse a huge impact on the finances. Insurance does not cover for us, but the way we are seeing it is, we want to try whatever is possible to have our own biological baby. Unless you try you wont ever know. That is what I told Mr Ramsey when he said that our chances stand at around 10 % and if we still want to go ahead. I feel I never want to be in a situation where I have this question in my mind - what if we did go ahead.
I have just been catching up with the other posts. At times it is easier to hold all your emotions in and other times it is so difficult. It is unavoidable to feel sad or jealous about friends and family having babies. We had friends staying with us over the weekend and I was managing ok, but sunday just before I went to bed I logged into facebook and the first 2 pages were full of proud parents posting photos or comments about how cute their kids are or what fun they have with their babies... I could not take it any further than the first 2 pages I had to have a good cry. I cried for a very long time DH was very worried and tried his best to calm me but I just could not stop and go back to sleeping. Feeling much better this morning.
An update from me, further bad news, we had been to see Mr Ramsey on Saturday , it was the key sperm analysis after taking tamoxifen for 3 months. The hormones are all at the optimum level, unfortunately they dint find any
I was mentally prepared for this bad news. I am usually a very optimistic person but in this case I think I am more in touch with reality specially after reading about the low success rates. Mr Ramsey said the next step was to go for mtese but with donor back up so that my eggs are not waste and I am not subject to unnecessary risks. We have spoken to him earlier about this and made it clear that we are not prepared for the donor route. but he had to tell us again that from a medical stand point the best way forward was to use donor back up. I was holding my emotions till then but when he said this, I could not hold back again and started crying. I know very embarrassing. DH was strong and he spoke on our behalf and said that we are keen to go for the synchronised mTese knowing full well the risks but dint want to use the donor route. We managed to convince him and now the next steps are for me to go to Lister and see Mr James Nicopolous. His secretary will contact us.I also told Mr Ramsey that I had been for my ultrasound scan and also done the HSG , for which the results were not that great. He seemed surprised that I was asked to go for something as unpleasant as an HSG when there was no need to know about the status of the tubes as we have no choice but to go down the IVF route given DH condition. and for IVF tubes are not important (does anyone know why?) He has asked DH to take tamoxifen till one week before the surgery, given that we are just coming to Xmas period, January/ Feb seems most likely the date for the synchronised cycle.
Like many of you here, I am keen to know the cause of azoo. I asked Mr Ramsey and he said that , during mTese he will send off some tissue for biopsy and potentially that could give us some answers. He asked us again if DH had undescended testicles , but we dont know . DH parents have never told us anything, DH is planning on asking them soon. I fear I might get very angry if I know that they hid this information from DH. Has anyone experienced this situation before where the parents never told their DH.
@Spark: Whether or not to go for ahead for a mTese knowing the chances are low is entirely upto what you both want to do and offcourse a huge impact on the finances. Insurance does not cover for us, but the way we are seeing it is, we want to try whatever is possible to have our own biological baby. Unless you try you wont ever know. That is what I told Mr Ramsey when he said that our chances stand at around 10 % and if we still want to go ahead. I feel I never want to be in a situation where I have this question in my mind - what if we did go ahead.
I have just been catching up with the other posts. At times it is easier to hold all your emotions in and other times it is so difficult. It is unavoidable to feel sad or jealous about friends and family having babies. We had friends staying with us over the weekend and I was managing ok, but sunday just before I went to bed I logged into facebook and the first 2 pages were full of proud parents posting photos or comments about how cute their kids are or what fun they have with their babies... I could not take it any further than the first 2 pages I had to have a good cry. I cried for a very long time DH was very worried and tried his best to calm me but I just could not stop and go back to sleeping. Feeling much better this morning.
