Dealing with azoospermia?

[so_impatient]

Soooo, my story....

I am 27 (but 28 next week) and he is 30.

We started by casually ttc, like not trying but not trying not to, that was year one.
Then for 2 more years it was ttc with much effort- daily bd, charting temperature, juicing, flax seed, and even acupuncture.

In year 2 of ttc I started begging my doctor to refer us to an infertility specialist, but that prescription-loving doctor would only say the stupidest things ever, e.g. "you're young, just relax and it will happen", and, "your life will change after you have kids, enjoy the time you have" and other loads of precious time-wasting crap like this.

Finally I went to a walk in doctor, and this doctor took pity on my situation and kindly and promptly referred myself and him to a specialist.

All this time I assumed I was the problem, but after all the tests were done, after 3 years ttc, it was determined that he has zero sperm count.

Heartbreak! I feel so bad for him because he is such a family kind of guy, he wanted this more than me- and I wanted it very badly. (still do.)

Anger- because his count is due to bilateral undescended testicles, and this wasn't corrected until he was a teenager- this is one of those situations were I feel anger at his parents for not doing anything sooner. They had tons of kids it's so unfair to him!

And to me!

We are so private about this, we are a pretty private couple, after keeping this news to ourselves I told my sister about it finally. It made me feel so much better to have someone else to share the my grief with. But I don't want to tell anyone else.

Typical heartbreaks to follow of course- watching all my friends have babies, watching my siblings have babies, loving those sweet babies, loving my nieces and nephews but carrying a horrible sadness that I don't get to be the one decorating nurseries, and toting around a mini-me that I can dress up in cute little headbands and onesies.

We have so much to share, a beautiful home in the country and it feels so empty with just the two of us- pets bring us joy but there is a constant sadness.

When he went to a urologist, that dr told him that he believes he may have some sperm in one of his testicles- he felt them both and feels that there is a good chance on one side- - has anyone else been given this shred of hope? Did things turn out?--

I don't want to adopt.

Our options are IVF, with a painful testicle surgery for him- pain that I really don't wan to see him go through poor guy hasn't he suffered enough?? - and that's only with the chance that they will retrieve something. And meanwhile I'm getting older making my chances smaller of success (and then I get mad again for my doctor delaying all this by two years!!!)

And of course, then there's the cost- it's just not easy to come up with $10,000 + just to get started! And that's if it works the first time, which it never seems to!

There is a wealthy grandparent in his family, and we are going for a visit soon. The plan is for him to ask him to sponsor this little IVF project of ours. But his parents are very against us receiving financial help- we are both self-employed and they have never understood our lifestyle. Of course his parents don't know this situation, (Even though I feel it's partly their fault for not correcting his undescended testes sooner).

And add to that we're private and I dont want to discuss this stuff with his family! I am seriously not even looking forward to this trip to see this grandparent, and I don't want to involve this family but a baby means more to me than being embarassed so I'll just have to bear it.

But his mom will be there too, and I'm worried that if she finds out he asks his grandparent for money she will get mad at us....although in the bigger picture I guess what does that matter?

So that's my sad story. It's long. I want to update here on what happens... we have a long road ahead of us but if we get a donation from the grandparent, at least money wouldn't stop us from trying everything we can.

I personally can't think of a better reason to give money to a grandchild, but this family is funny like that.

In the future, I want to raise the topic of donor sperm too...

 

[Hopeful Cat]

Hi so-impatient. So sad that we have to go through these things. My husband also had bilateral undescrnded testicles that werent corrected until age 9. No doctors advised his parents of his medical issue..my mother-in-law figured it out herself and took him for assessment.

Anyway. We were given less than 10% chance of finding sperm (more likely 5%). We were told if the issue isnt corrected by age 3 the damage is done and doesnt really matter how many years after that its done..outcome wont change much. Well we did a fine needle aspiration and found no sperm. Then we did a mtese last year and found 11 sperm. And this week we did a second mtese and found 24 sperm. We currently have 12 embryos growing (currently 1 day old).

There is always hope.

Regards to donors...hubby was well against it at first but he is much more accepting now and its still an option for us If these embryos fail.

Sorry to hear ahout the stress involved in the fAmily politics. Hope u get the support!

 

[bubumaci]

Hi so_impatient I am sorry you have had to make your way here - truth be told, you have found a group of wonderful women to support you on your journey! I can understand you anger at having been cost two years - but in all honesty, you both are still very young and I have strong hopes that - being still so young - you will find a way to become parents. (It wasn't until I was nearly 36 and DH was 35 that we discovered his Azoospermia - and I am going on 39 this year !).

Personally, I would try speaking to the grandparent. My approach to most things in life : if you don't try, you won't know and you have nothing to lose. At best - you gain the support you need. At worst - you are no worse off than you already are.
If your Mother-in-Law does start saying nasty things, you could always shoot back, that it is she and her husband that are at fault, not having dealt with the issue when DH was a baby ... (I think my anger would get the better of me and if something nasty were said to me, I would probably not be able to bite my tongue). The other thing, where you have time on your side is because of your age - you have time to save and still be young enough for the treatment

I can't advise on the TESE. My DH had TESE done for the first time with our current round of IVF (two years ago, by some freak, he had taken Tamoxifen for 6 weeks and produced an amazing SA, and they were able to freeze 6 straws worth of sperm. For the other ICSIs bar one - September 2012, where they thawed one straw - they have found enough in his samples to use for ICSI fertilisation - but Tamoxifen didn't help ever again). They can find no reason for his infertility - no hormonal, genetic issues, biology all clear, no blockages ... On Monday, DH had his TESE, I took the material with me for my ER ... even before I went in, they told me that the TESE material was useless, nothing there, bad looking sperm - we are waiting on the histology report from the other lab to see if they can give us some reason for his infertility.
The TESE is unpleasant, he has been sore the past few days, but is getting much better ... but it might just be the miracle that you and DH need - see Hopeful Cat's recount ...

Incidentally - congratulations on your growing embies Hopeful Cat to you Sweetie!

Finally AFM - Monday they retrieved 15 eggies from me and 14 were mature ... 9 fertilised using two frozen straws, since the TESE material couldn't be used. (Although, our fertilisation rates have always been good:
June 2012 - 14 retrieved, 12 mature, 11 fertilised
September 2012 - 11 retrieved, 10 mature, 7 fertilised
February 2013 - 23 retrieved, 18 mature, 15 fertilised
July 2013 - 12 retrieved, 10 mature, 4,5 fertilised - initially they said 4, but a fifth did start ...
November 2013 - 13 retrieved, 11 mature, 9 fertilised).

We rang the clinic yesterday, to see how they are developing ... I have not been able to get excited so far, because of the history we have had ... well - out of the 9, 8 were developing as they should (7/8/9-cell) ... which is a better result than in December, when at day 3, 6 out of our 9 were where they wanted. (Day of transfer we had two blasts => chemical)...

Anyway, I am allowing a tingle of hope to show itself ... and tomorrow I have my transfer at 13:55 ... and I shall hear how our minis are doing ...

Please keep your fingers crossed, that this is finally our time ...
Here, a sprinkling for everyone else :

 

[gem10]

Mikihob-yes, my husband mentioned doing the same thing. He is getting a little anxious as he is 36, and really doesn't want to wait too much longer to have kids. He said that he is ready and willing to use DS now and work on him in the meantime. He said, You're a mother without a baby. I'll do whatever I can to fix that. Which, of course, made me cry. He really is amazing.

We used Fairfax when we chose our donor last time. We didn't have any luck with the face recognition, and we even tried lots of different pictures. But we never did call anyone for help. You mentioned paying $200+ for full access, does this give you full access to adult photos? We never saw what our donor looked like as an adult, just a silhouette, which also kind of scares me. DH wasn't comfortable seeing pictures as adults, but I feel like I have to in order to feel comfortable.

So this is becoming more of an option in my mind. I see people on the thread getting their BFP and it shows that at the end of the day, we just want family and I think we can be happy either way. But, of course, it would be much easier if we could conceive with DH.

Soimpatient and Hopefulcat, my husband had the same, undescended testicles corrected at 5 years old. He has zero sperm in SA. We have done TESE twice. The first time they found 13 sperm. The last one they found 12. Well, they found more than 12, but some were dead : ( Unfortunately both of those cycles did not take. The embryos made it to morula stage by day 5, but they really should have been blastocast by then. The doctor said they are developing, but doing so slowly. He says it is the quality of testicular sperm that is affecting the development. So while they are able to fertilize my eggs, they are not making it to the phase that they can implant and develop. We are working with our urologist to see if there are any meds he can prescribe to improve the quality of the testicular sperm. We are also talking to an alternative medicine fertility specialist tomorrow to see if there are any Chinese herbs that may be able to help. I'll let you know how that goes.

Just know you are not alone in this. That has been the hardest part for me. But everyday I come on here makes me feel better. There are lots of women out there suffering with you. Keep the faith, that's the best thing you can do.

 

[gem10]

Bubumaci, it is hard not to get excited! Thats great news! Sounds like your embies are doing well. I tell my husband all the time how strong you are, every time I see your signature I think of the strength it takes to do this that many times and keep going. I have had only 2 failed cycles and am considering donor! So God bless you and your husband for your strength to keep trying. I am hoping this is your cycle! Best of luck for a smooth transfer tomorrow. I want to ask my urologist about the meds your hubby took! That's great that it worked well enough to have tried this many times! to you!!!

 

[Miraclbaby]

@ so_impatient Ivf is so expensive! then it depends on the Doctor and clinic as well. Hopefully somebody will sponsor it for u. We r doing the whole procedure in New york at weil cornell. Insurance doesnt even cover mTEse with Dr. Schlegel But our parents will support us.

@hopeful cat OMG!! thats awesome. Hopefully it will work.

 

[bubumaci]

Thanks Gem!
Well, the original urologist said that he thought it was too risky to do TESE, because he sometimes produces a little and sometimes none, which is why he suggested the Tamoxifen (which is medication to lower Oestrogen, women take it after breast cancer treatment). It must have been some freak miracle, because after taking it for 6 weeks, his SA was 13 mio (!!!) and 8% morphology (at most, they only found max. 250K with 0% motility and morphology - to nothing ...) - so they promptly froze 6 straws of it. I remember seeing the results and bursting into tears (little did I know, that it was only the first hurdle of many *lol*) ...
Anyway, for all the tries that we have had (with the exception of September 2012, when he produced nothing on the day of ER and they thawed a straw), they have managed to find enough swimmers in his fresh sample to be able to do the ICSI ...
For this try, because he had the TESE, they thawed 2 straws ... so we still have three left - hoping we won't need them *grin* ...
Our ER wanted to do fresh TESE, because he thought that the fresh SA was poor quality and he had hoped that the TESE would give us something better.
In February last year we tried again with the Tamoxifen - but had no response to it, so I really think it was some freak miracle two years ago ... no explanations, but hey, if it works, who am I to argue

I think no harm can come from trying the Tamoxifen route. The urologist said that he had had success a few times, when the infertility was unexplained (i.e. not hormonal / genetic / obstructive) - perhaps it just takes one time lucky...

to us all

 

[gem10]

Just wanted to mention how annoying all the baby Vday posts are. Wishing my hubby was home.for Vday...looks like I will be drinking wine alone tonight. Stupid holiday.

 

[Stinas]

so_impatient - You came to the right place! Wonderful people here that have been an amazing support group! Lots of different stories here.
My DH had the TESE in 2012 and have been using that sperm for our IVF cycles. Our 4th cycle(2nd FET) was a success and we are now pregnant with twins. So there is hope if they do find something. It may work the first time, but prepare yourself for it not to. I didn't prepare myself, I thought it was going to work right away since they said we had a 70+% chance of it working. I was devastated…then became even more as the failed cycles kept happening. When it worked for the first time, ended in MC, but this cycle worked, so we are thankful. It was our last shot before we were going to try donor.
I agree with the other ladies. It won't hut to tell the grandparents your story. Im sure they will understand. If they don't, it will just show their true colors. IVF is very expensive, we paid for all of ours out of pocket, so I feel your pain. DH & I are not open with private things, but as time goes on you will see that sharing your story with the right people can really help others with their infertility issues. Believe it or not, once you share, tons of people come out of the woodworks.

BUBU - I think its great news! I can't wait for your ET!

 

[Stinas]

Gem - I can't stand V day either…..never could, even though I always had a valentine, still thought it was stupid. Personally I always loved the baby valentines….Kind of always made me feel better. As weird as that may sound.

 

[MBABY2014]

GEM
glad to hear you guys are exploring your options and moving forward positively!! Your strong and I applaud you!

While I don't know the quality of my DH sperm yet, the RE said they were good for ICSI and were moving ( not greatly movement though)

This is what he was doing from Nov-Jan 30
Accupunctute 1x week ( at fertility center)
A bunch of supplements/ if you want the names you can PM me for details
Cut out alcohol ( not all), extra 'activities' (lol) and upped heLthy food

If you guys wznt to attempt TESE I would 100 rec the acupuncture and supplements.

I have also heard good things about Fertility Blend ( it's on amazon)

I will let you know the quality as soon as I know more- I trigger Tom and ER Mobday so I guess I will know more by sometime next week...

 

[NikkiR143]

I have an interesting question for your ladies and please don't judge :/

My husband has ADHD. It was probably more prominent as a child, but he still suffers from a short attention span, etc...When he was in high school, he started smoking weed to ease some of the anxiety and hyperactivity he was feeling. It worked and he continued/continues to smoke to this day. I've never liked weed and I don't do it but I accepted him smoking a long time ago.

However, when we realized he was diagnosed with cryptozoospermia/azoospermia I told him (as well as his urologist) that he really should quit just to give the little amount of sperm he does have the best chances possible. All the doctors have told us quitting probably won't make much of a difference, but we don't know if we don't try. So he's been 2 months sober as of yesterday. He really was mentally and physically addicted and it's been tough quitting but he did it! He still drinks beer occasionally, but he's been taking fertility vitamin supplements for men and no THC entering his body! He's going to go in for another SA in a month or two (it takes 3 months for the toxins to leave your body) to see if it makes any difference.

So I guess me question for you ladies is, have you read anything on weed and fertility? Google research shows mixed results. Some say it makes a difference (not so much in count though), and some say it doesn't. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what type of responses I get.

Happy Valentine's Day!

- Nicole

 

[bubumaci]

Good luck with your trigger tomorrow MBaby!!!

Hey Nicole - no judging from me there. I have a friend who has suffered all his life with being ultra nervous (not sure if it is a form of ADS or not) and he always self-medicated with Hash.
DH will most likely have had to smoke his hash mixed in with tobacco? Generally, smoking is likely to have negative effects on fertility / sperm production. I haven't read on the effects of weed, but I can imagine that it is in the same category and not likely to be good for fertility (then again, the 60s-70s baby boom, the hippies were on anything and everything, so who knows!). Kudos to his managing to quit! Based on what I know from my friend, that is particularly tough!

Perhaps it is similar to what my DH says when I moan about him taking baths that are too hot ... if you have a healthy sperm count, it may be impacted by say 3% or so. But if you are already have azoospermia / oligospermia / cryptozoospermia diagnoses - then it probably won't make a huge difference (even though it probably does negatively affect the little that they have).

and happy Valentine's Day to everybody

 

[MBABY2014]

Thanks buB!!!

 

[babadespls]

I have an interesting question for your ladies and please don't judge :/

My husband has ADHD. It was probably more prominent as a child, but he still suffers from a short attention span, etc...When he was in high school, he started smoking weed to ease some of the anxiety and hyperactivity he was feeling. It worked and he continued/continues to smoke to this day. I've never liked weed and I don't do it but I accepted him smoking a long time ago.

However, when we realized he was diagnosed with cryptozoospermia/azoospermia I told him (as well as his urologist) that he really should quit just to give the little amount of sperm he does have the best chances possible. All the doctors have told us quitting probably won't make much of a difference, but we don't know if we don't try. So he's been 2 months sober as of yesterday. He really was mentally and physically addicted and it's been tough quitting but he did it! He still drinks beer occasionally, but he's been taking fertility vitamin supplements for men and no THC entering his body! He's going to go in for another SA in a month or two (it takes 3 months for the toxins to leave your body) to see if it makes any difference.

So I guess me question for you ladies is, have you read anything on weed and fertility? Google research shows mixed results. Some say it makes a difference (not so much in count though), and some say it doesn't. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what type of responses I get.

Happy Valentine's Day!

- Nicole

Oh my, I feel like I just wrote this, My DH is exactly the same, he is also ADHD and used to smoke to calm him, he is also hyper active, he has quit but its been very hard. I have also read that it does affect sperm production, actually causing testicular failure.

This is what I read (tried to post a link but it wont let me)

Testicular Failure

Another cause of azoospermia is testicular failure, which is the inability of the testicles to produce enough mature sperm. Causes of testicular failure include chromosome problems, diseases of the testicle, and injury to the testicale. Undescended testicles at birth or frequent and heavy use of marijuana can also increase the risk of testicular failure. This can occur during any stage of sperm production. The testicle may not have the cells necessary that divide to become sperm cells, or the sperm may be unable to fully develop and mature.


I know not everything we read is accurate but hey, its got him to stop, but I do believe that it has a part in it, could it perhaps be a combination of a whole lot of things I wonder.

 

[gem10]

Thinking of you Bub!

 

[bubumaci]

Thank you Gem!

Well, I have one beautiful starting to hatch blastocyst (grade AA) and one beautiful Morula (grade A-) on board. There were two others still under surveillance to perhaps be frozen tomorrow

On the picture, you can see the blast starting to hatch - on the monitor right before transfer there was a little bit more coming out.

So praying that one or both are settling in for the long haul now

 

[MBABY2014]

Awesome BuB!!

When is transfer?

 

[MoBaby]

Those embryos look so good!!!! I'm excited for you!

 

[NikkiR143]

I have an interesting question for your ladies and please don't judge :/

My husband has ADHD. It was probably more prominent as a child, but he still suffers from a short attention span, etc...When he was in high school, he started smoking weed to ease some of the anxiety and hyperactivity he was feeling. It worked and he continued/continues to smoke to this day. I've never liked weed and I don't do it but I accepted him smoking a long time ago.

However, when we realized he was diagnosed with cryptozoospermia/azoospermia I told him (as well as his urologist) that he really should quit just to give the little amount of sperm he does have the best chances possible. All the doctors have told us quitting probably won't make much of a difference, but we don't know if we don't try. So he's been 2 months sober as of yesterday. He really was mentally and physically addicted and it's been tough quitting but he did it! He still drinks beer occasionally, but he's been taking fertility vitamin supplements for men and no THC entering his body! He's going to go in for another SA in a month or two (it takes 3 months for the toxins to leave your body) to see if it makes any difference.

So I guess me question for you ladies is, have you read anything on weed and fertility? Google research shows mixed results. Some say it makes a difference (not so much in count though), and some say it doesn't. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what type of responses I get.

Happy Valentine's Day!

- Nicole

Oh my, I feel like I just wrote this, My DH is exactly the same, he is also ADHD and used to smoke to calm him, he is also hyper active, he has quit but its been very hard. I have also read that it does affect sperm production, actually causing testicular failure.

This is what I read (tried to post a link but it wont let me)

Testicular Failure

Another cause of azoospermia is testicular failure, which is the inability of the testicles to produce enough mature sperm. Causes of testicular failure include chromosome problems, diseases of the testicle, and injury to the testicale. Undescended testicles at birth or frequent and heavy use of marijuana can also increase the risk of testicular failure. This can occur during any stage of sperm production. The testicle may not have the cells necessary that divide to become sperm cells, or the sperm may be unable to fully develop and mature.


I know not everything we read is accurate but hey, its got him to stop, but I do believe that it has a part in it, could it perhaps be a combination of a whole lot of things I wonder.

That's very interesting!! Who knows really? I don't think there's enough research on it to know if it really makes a difference or not, but it can't hurt to stop using. If anything I'm hoping stopping can help my DH at least get enough sperm in his semen to avoid a risky testicular sperm extraction surgery on the day of egg retreival.