Dealing with azoospermia?

[wibble wobble]

Hi everyone

I haven't been on here for a while,so I'm a bit lost in the postings. will try to be better in future.

I had a bit of breakthrough with hubby regarding the issue of donor sperm. Initially he didn't want to know. Then he said he would think about it if he gets the tese done and they find none. I said to him a while back that he should really think about it before as it's a possibility and better to think a little now rather than be in the position your told it's the only option (sorry I'm rambling a bit) the other day he said that 'obviously we'll go ahead with donor sperm I'll just need time to get over never having biological kids'

I found out today that we should get the tese appointment through in the next 2-3 weeks too so I'm actually counting down the days until 3 weeks from today. I'm so excited just to know that the appointment will be here soon!

sorry for the ME post it's just the first time in almost 2 months that I've had something to look forward to..... A LETTER!!! How sad!!!

 

[wifeyw]

Hi wibble wobble, I was the same with DH and donor option but i sort of had mixed feelings myself. I said we will leave it as a plan B if we need to come to it then we will but we gotta have that other option after all its better than none. DH had his TESA today we both were very anxious think the nerves got the best of DH as its in a sensitive area and i was worried about the results so glad its done with now though and DH is recovering fine still sore though but they gave us the result a couple hours later and they found some wigglies there so all is good and they r testing to see if they freeze ok and if not then DH has to get the TESA done again so fingers crossed we have to find that out tomarrow. But i wish u all the luck in the world and i think its like everything as time goes on it doesn't get easier.. you cope with things more so you see your options in a different way i think thats what most DH goes through mines certainly did. Your time will go in so quick. how is your DH feeling about the actual procedure? we are awaiting a review appointment now in 6-8 weeks so its a waiting game but still can't wait to see what is the next step. I've learnt to keep busy and time goes by in a flash. best of luck and babydust xx

 

[silverbell]

Fantastic news, wifeyw! I bet you're both over the moon. I hope you get further good news today.

Hey wibble wobble. I'm glad you and your DH seem to have come to a decision about 'plan B'. It can really help to have a 'backup plan'.

I wish DH's op was in the next 2 to 3 weeks instead of around December Oh well, c'est la vie and at least it's all going to be free.

Don't apologise about a 'me' post - that's what this thread is all about I think. Sharing our own personal journeys and lending an ear to others. Hope you get that letter soon!

 

[Charmed33]

Hello, Not really sure how this site works....My husband and I have been trying for 2+ years and he was just tested about 6 months ago (our original doctor told us it's usually the female with infertility issues (???), so he didn't want to test my husband. My new OB immediately tested my husband, who has azoospermia of unknown cause. Now our only option is donor sperm...We're planning on going ahead with this, and we talk about it a lot. I want to be supportive of my husband...not sure what issues guys all face with the idea of donor sperm. Any insights would be helpful.

 

[silverbell]

Hello, Charmed, and sorry you find yourself here.

Has your husband been advised about TESE - a biopsy of the testicle to try to retrieve sperm? Prior to considering donor sperm?

https://www.donor-conception-network.org/

This site is very helpful.

We'll be using donor sperm if mTESE is unsuccessful. It's a big decision and there's certainly a lot to talk and think about.

That's shocking about your previous doctor. I have read that fertility problems are roughly a 50/50 split between male and female factors. How frustrating (for you both) that he was so dismissive of your husband.

 

[Bookworm]

Hi Everyone - and hi all the new people! I've been purposely staying away the last while and I'm sorry to see so many new people finding themselves here in such a short time! But at the same time glad that the site/thread is here for support!! It always really shocks me how many people are dealing with this...

And so much happening since I last checked into the thread! Movement for lots of you

With the donor sperm I thought I'd chip in as (I think?) we're in the minority of couples who are not planning on going down that route if that becomes an issue.

When we got the news of dh azoospermia at first I was devasted - tigerlilly you're response is 100% normal!! And DH was so sad to see just how devastated I was - there is such a deep desire in me to be pregnant, to know that little life is growing and to see my belly expand, to feel the kicks and punches and ultimately to give birth and hold my newborn child in my arms... and knowing that might never happen still brings tears to my eyes (threatening to spill over as I type!). But when, in those first few days, dh said brightly "well there's always the option of donor sperm" I only had to think for a few seconds; if it was the other way would I be happy for a donor egg/surogate? And the answer was 'no'. And the truth is that I don't want to have anyone else's child but dh's - I never thought about children until I met him, and was never a broody sort. And when I said that to him his relief was clear - it's not a path he wanted to go down but he was willing to in order to make me happy (or at least happier).

I'm grateful that he was willing to consider it, but if the biopsy is the final word for us re TTC then we'll take time to grieve and probably move on to look at adoption. I have to admit that the temptation is there to put it back on the table for discussion... but that's the selfish part of me that wants to be pregnant, when I think of the reality of it I know that's not for us.

 

[Deb111]

Firstly welcome Charmed I too am shocked at your first doctor dismissing your husband and also shocked that (unless I misunderstand) you have been given the diagnosis and told that donor sperm is your only option. Have a look at the link silverbell has given you - there really are things that you can at least try before knowing that donor sperm / adoption are your only options. Have you been told if they think it is ostructive azoo or non-obstructive?

Wifeyw - that's such wonderful news!!! So thrilled for you both and hope you get some good news about the freezing

Bookworm - reading what you wrote about your decision over donor sperm really touched me. It can't be easy to put yourself in your hubby's shoes and shows how selfless you are. I really hope and pray things work out for you one way or another

As for me, I've had my CD3 load of blood tests done today ready for The Lister Clinic (6 vials of blood!!!) and hubby has had all his bloods done too. He should get his testosterone one back on friday so we'll see if the tamoxifen has made any difference!!

Hope everyone else is doing well

 

[Bookworm]

Thanks Debs - but I feel that I shouldn't mis-lead: I'm no angel I know in my heart of heart that donor sperm is not the path for us so it's not that selfless really! I'm actually very very selfish and am struggling against it

Charmed - maybe we've picked you up wrong, what tests has your OH been through to get the diagnosis of 'unexplained azoospermia'? Have you gone from 0 sperm count straight to Donor Sperm - or have we taken you up wrong and there were more steps in between? the usual path that most people here are working / have worked through seems to be hormone tests, some genetic tests and biopsy to confirm a total lack of any viable swimmers - have you guys gone through all that?

 

[silverbell]

What an honest and thoughtful post, bookworm. I do so hope that Friday brings you both very happy news.

Just to add some more thoughts on the subject of donor sperm. . .

For us it was a decision we both spent a long time considering and donor sperm is most definitely not for everyone and is extremely personal to each couple. DH told me he had always imagined me pregnant and attending scans and being there at the birth and being denied that experience was heartbreaking to him. He also said he'd rather have a child half of one of us biologically than neither of us. He also said that any child we had together would be incredibly loved and cherished and that it doesnt just take his genes to be a blessing. I did wonder what we'd do if the issues were reversed and I think I would have gone for donor egg for the exact same reasons. As I say it really is very personal and each of us is very different in the way we look at things. It's a decision that must be made as a couple and we're all different. But you'll know the right decision for the both of you.

 

[WANBMUM]

Hi Girls and welcome Charmed 33

Silverbell has referred you to an amazing website, it really gives you an insight into donor's from every aspect/point of view, some great stories from the men themselves and how they found it.
My OH was the first to mention Donor sperm months back and I must say I got quite a shock and my initial thoughts were 'no way' but having discussed and researched, we have decided it is something we have as a back up plan, before adoption etc. My OH is ALL for it, I am also willing to do anything but I know it wont be such an easy journey for me.
I also put myself in my OH's shoes and he explained to me, he would give anything to have a baby with me, to have my baby and if not a part of him, at least it would be a part of me. The same way I think, I will give anything to have my hubbys baby. so from his point of view I would like to give him that. But again, it really is a personal choice.
My OH thinks even if a baby was dropped to our front door, we would cherish and love it as if it was our own, no difference. Ok i am waffling a bit, but that is how we think about it.
Dont get me wrong, once you decide on donor sperm there is a whole different aspect to consider, do you go for an anonymous donor, open, do you tell your child, do you keep it a secret, do you tell your family? etc etc etc
But we wont worry too much at the moment - even though I have a fair idea how I would go about it.

 

[wibble wobble]

Welcome charmed...... you should definately ask for hubby to have more tests done,it may be that he has sperm that can be removed by ssr and used in icsi

silverbell it's just the appointment letter that will be arriving in the next 3 weeks(I'm excited just at getting the letter through), the actual tese could be quite a way off still.... I'm hoping it will be between 12 and 18 weeks after receiving the letter so it's done by the end of the year. I'm so ready to have a baby... realistically thinking (which I don't really want to!prefer to be hopelessy optimistic) I probably wont start treatment til early next year,after the tese I have to get referred to the fertility clinic at the hospital (a few weeks) wait for the pct to confirm they will fund us (another few weeks) go to the patient information evening for ivf (probs a few more weeks) then you have to go for 2 day bloods on your next cycle... it just feels like something is happening now after waiting 7 weeks and hearing nothing.

Wanbmum there are loads of different things to consider with donor sperm and none of it's easy either. Me and my hubby have decided that if we have to use donor,then it'll stay between the 2 of us. Obviously we'd have to tell the baby when he/she is old enough,probably wait until he/she is mature enough not to throw your not my dad and can't tell me what to do at hubby.... can donors still remain anonymous? I thought the laws had been changed

Deb are you starting treatment soon?

 

[silverbell]

Wibble, I wonder if you could get referred to the Fertility Clinic ahead of DH having his TESE? That's what I'm hoping to do. I'm seeing the Gynae Dept in September and going to ask them if they'll refer me from there, in readiness. It's worth a try at least.

Most ops have to be done within 18 weeks nowadays, but I don't know if this is the case for SSR. I hope it is.

Donor sperm is no longer anonymous in the UK.

Telling people is one of the things they counsel each couple about. DH and I will be telling close friends and family and the child from very early on. We've read this is the best way to do things, as the child never feels they were lied to and as everybody else knows it's not a big shock to the child and is 'normal'. Telling is, again, a very personal decision. There's so much to think about with regards to donor sperm. I sooooo hope that neither of us have to go down that route ... but it is comforting for us to know that it is an option should we need it.

 

[KB38]

Congratulations wifey!!! I am so very happy for you and your OH.

Fingers crossed you get some good news from your tests Deb111. I watched your video the other day and cried my eyes out. It was like you were in my head. So therapeutic.

Thanks all for your posts about donor sperm. To be honest, I don't know which way we will go. I agree that the counselling we went to was really helpful but like everyone has said, it is just such a personal decision. DH was initially completely opposed to the idea but the other day one of DH's best friends was talking about his baby looking up at him like he was the best thing in the world. DH said, 'do you think he knows that your his dad' and his friend (who by the way we haven't told what was going on) said 'you know, I don't know but what I do know is that he knows I love him more than anything and I'll always be here for him. So if that's what being a dad is, I guess he does'. I had to leave the room because I started crying. Since then DH has been all about donor sperm and keeps assuring me that he's pretty sure he can fit all of the Dad criteria. What I didn't realise was how he had equated not being able to produce sperm with not being able to be a good parent. Its weird but his outlook has totally changed from being what he calls "a provider of dodgy DNA" to "a provider for our children". I'm not quite in the same headspace and I'm not sure he'll stay where he is now but it is so nice to see him positive.

Well, as for me,....I was really hoping to go and have an informed discussion with someone who knew what they were talking about at our appointment on Monday but, unfortunately, it seemed that I knew far far more than our doctor did. What I could get out of him is that there doesn't seem to be any "known genetic cause" for DH's azoospermia and the official diagnosis is sertoli cell only syndrome BUT, despite me double checking that they would before and after the procedure, the pathology lab didn't test to see if it was the pure form or the mixed form.

When I asked the specialist why he said that it was unnecessary because they had done 4 (not 6) biopsies and only got sertolic cells. I am really, really disappointed with this because DH (as part of his degree at uni - at least that is what he is telling me) had gave a semen sample for examination in one of his lab classes and he had "plenty" of sperm then. I only wish he'd saved some LOL!!! To make matters worse, the doctor then proceeded to go through our options which were essentially to use donor sperm or not to have children at all. When I asked what we could do to actually make sure DH was ok health-wise, he looked at me blankly and said "I thought you wanted a baby". Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr..............

I've had a long chat to our GP who agrees with me that the whole thing is entirely unsatisfactory. He agrees with me that we need to look at regularising (or at least having someone consider whether we need to) regularise his hormones. We are also going to change specialists. I'm waiting to hear back from him now about what happens next. When I get the official blood test results (which should be in the mail anyday), I'm planning to get back into finding a decent doctor mode.

DH and I are going away this weekend. We've picked an adult only resort so we don't have to face anyone's babies and we plan to just spend time together and for the first time in over a year not talk about what time of the month it is, whether I should drink, ttc, no sperm, or doctors.

Sorry for my super long venting post. I hope you all have a wonderful weekend and I look forward to hearing all of your good news very soon, xx

 

[silverbell]

Ah, that's ever so sweet about what your DH's friend said about his boy Also great that it had such a positive effect on your DH and I hope it continues.

We got sick of seeing people who didn't know what they were talking about and that's why we were so relieved last Saturday to see Mr Ramsay. It was such a pleasure to talk to somebody who knew the subject inside out. I felt like I was educating the professionals before we met him, so it was nice for it to be the other way around like it should be.

I'm so sorry they weren't as well-informed as they should be. That's a ridiculous response to your question about making sure DH was OK health-wise. How insensitive and unhelpful

I am ever so pleased you'll be changing Specialists.

Very well done on booking a weekend away just the 2 of you with no kids around. It'll be so lovely and I think will do you both the world of good. I hope you both enjoy yourselves and relax and just enjoy each others' company. Have a wonderful time, KB.

 

[silverbell]

Deb, just wanted to say I finally just got around to watching your video on page 1 and I'm glad I did. It sums everything up perfectly - the frustration, the tears, the injustice and the strength to go on. Thank you for a lovely way of expressing everything we - and all others affected by infertility - are going through.

 

[Sar187]

Charmed, Welcome though i'm sorry you are having to join the thread. I can't give much insight on the donor sperm as its something that DH and I haven't really considered too much at the moment. We briefly mentioned it but I'm not sure right now if I could actually wrap my mind around it, and I know its something he doesn't really want to consider at the moment so If it comes to it then we will consider what options we have.

Deb, I hope you get good news from the blood results!

KB38, Sorry to hear that your appointment didn't go anywhere near as well as you had hoped. I think it sounds like a good choice for you to switch specialists. Hope you have a great trip with your hubby I'm sure it will do you both good!

As for me DH just did a health/wellness checkup at his work and found out that his glucose is high and he is pre-diabetic and has high blood pressure so he finally decided to listen to me and start eating healthier and exercising more. He is getting in to get checked for that stuff now, one more thing . At least the healthier lifestyle should also help him be healthy for all the infertility stuff!

We did get the records from his hernia surgery which was done when he was 5 months old. He had what they called hydrocelectomy/inguinal hernia surgery. The report mentions the vas deferens and the pampiniform plexus(veins in the spermatic cord). I also found an abstract from a scientific journal that shows 3 cases where this surgery caused azoospermia later in life. So hopefully we can get the proof that insurance wants that this is what has caused his azoospermia!

I Filled out almost all our papers for our IVF consultation this coming monday. I don't think its fair that i have 6 pages of question and he has 1 but oh well . I also told DH I want to sit down and make a list of all the questions and such we have for the appointment. Is there anything in particular any of you would suggest asking?

 

[silverbell]

Hey that's great about the glucose being picked up, Sar, and I'm glad he's doing something about it

Not long now until your consultation.

That sounds promising about having found evidence with regards to the surgery and azoospermia. I hope this will satisfy the insurance company.

 

[luckdragon]

Hi guys how are you all? hope your all well. Sorry I havnt been on in a while i just tried to put things to the back of my mind a bit.
Today we had our first appointment with the consultant at the hospital and it didn't go as well as i'd hoped. She said that because dhs fsh and lh were so high this indicated that there was no point in doing a sperm retrieval because it meant there was too much damage done and our only option would be to use a donnor.

We are gutted, and my dh is adament he wont use a donnor so I don't know what to do or say.

how are you all getting on? xxxx

 

[silverbell]

Luck, that doesn't sound right to me at all.

My DH has a very high FSH (43 I think it was at last test) and Mr Ramsay - who is the UK expert - said last Saturday that this was proof that DH's body knew something was wrong and was trying to fix it. It was entirely normal and was in fact a natural and encouraging response.

I'll go and find what his LH level was. Mr R didn't mention that, but I'm pretty sure doctors shouldn't be dismissing SSR just because of some blood results. Everything I have read has suggested that you can get entirely different sperm retrieval results on each individual and no one test can completely determine what they will find on biopsy. If you PM me your email address I will send you 2 articles that Dr Schlegel sent me that verifies this (and he is the worlds' azoo expert).



EDIT - had a look and last LH was 16.8 and wasn't mentioned by Mr Ramsay.

I must say that our visit to Mr Ramsay was the best £200 we've ever spent Cannot recommend him enough.

 

[Deb111]

Wow I keep missing so many posts - no matter what I do and how many times I subscribe, I don't get email updates for this thread like I do others

Anyway ...

Wibble - we are probably heading for EC Oct / Nov time to co-incide with when Mr Ramsay feels is the right time for hubby's microTESE but our first appt at IVF clinic is 3 weeks today!

KB - what a lovely and very touching story about your dh and his friend

Silverbell and KB - I'm so glad you found the video helpful I will have to start thinking about another one for our next stage of the journey!

Thanks to all of you for your good wishes for the blood test results