Dealing with azoospermia?

[MoBaby]

So glad all went well MoBaby. When is OTD? Make sure you take it easy xx

I think 11/23 (14 days from er which was 11/9)....we'll see if I can hold out without poas before then! Lol

 

[froliky2011]

Thank you all so much! This is definitely not easy, but I know it will all be worth it. Keeping the faith & hope. Luckily we live in a time when the definition of family is not longer what it was in the 50s. However, it has been tough finding a doctor who would inseminate (known donor is keeping their parental rights) and an expert attorney who could draft up all the correct legal documents. The IVF docs would not inseminate me without a consent from the known donor (it was very complicated legal issues due to the donor statute where we live). I made several calls trying to find the right attorney and the comments were less than pleasant. People are very judgmental and closed minded unfortunately. Children need love, shelter, good, respect, etc. As long as those important things are in place and everyone is reasonable, respectful, loving, compassionate and puts the children's needs first, etc. it will all work out fine. Thanks for letting me get this out. What a journey. Baby Dust to you all!!!! Hugs!!!!!

 

[Sar187]

MissAma-That is great that they will wait for payment!

Tiger-I'm hoping you get good news when DH gets his TESE done! That is great that you get 3 cycles.

Silverbell-So glad to hear that you have a date!

Wibble-Sorry to hear there could be such a long wait for you.

Antoinette-Welcome to the group and good luck with your journey!

Cosita-I would definitely make sure that he gets checked for retrograde ejaculation. As deb said I believe he just has to give a semen sample, and then directly after a urine sample. Since he has some of the signs it could definitely be worthwhile to mention.

Mobaby-Glad the Retrieval and Transfer went well for you! I hope the 2ww doesn't treat you too badly! Were you able to freeze the rest of your embryos?

Antoinette-I haven't heard of anyone over here having that much of a wait, I have talked to a few other ladies and within a month of deciding on donor they had their vials of sperm and did their IUI. Over here the donor sperm is about $785 a vial on the high end and that includes shipping. I'm not sure how that converts though.

Deb-I'm glad your follow up went well. I am hoping the FET works for you! Your consultant is definitely correct that the first 2 failing definitely does not mean your 3rd embryo is not perfectly healthy. I am kind of surprised they are not recommending Assisted hatching, our clinic does assisted hatching for all of those who have a failed cycle, and there have been a few studies done showing that assisted hatching actually makes an embryo that has been frozen more likely to implant. I know of several other clinics here that have the same policy. Maybe it is just the difference between the UK and the US. Either way I think you have a good chance though! I'm sure the break with actually end up doing you some good. Everyone I know that has ended up with a forced break between cycles has been thankful for it in the end.

Dancer-I hope everything goes well. It will be wonderful for you to meet your little one!

Pample-I am thinking you are meaning PESA or TESE. If your DH is doing PESA, just be aware that it is a completely blind retrieval of sperm from the epididymis, and in some cases does not give a clear picture, as your DH could be producing sperm in his testicles and it is not making it into his epididymis. This case would return no sperm with PESA but would return sperm with TESE. Good Luck!

Pink Lolly-Glad to hear you have a plan. Your IUI will be here before you know it!

Congrats to Jo!

Froliky-Welcome!

AFM-Meds arrived today for cycle #2! Lupron starts on thursday! I am starting to get excited about this cycle now. I have decided to try to step back a bit and just have life have its way. I am feeling very positive about this cycle and about things in general. I started Reiki last week which I enjoyed immensely. If this cycle doesn't work then I have confidence that I will be directed where to go next. Retrieval will be on December 9th, less than a month and I'm sure it will be here before I know it!

Sorry I missed anyone and hope everyone else is doing well!

 

[MoBaby]

Sar: they just called and said none were good enough for freezing

 

[Sar187]

Mo-So sorry to hear that . Just remember that doesn't mean anything about the 2 you transferred. Those are the 2 best ones and they are in the best place possible! Hoping you get your BFP!

 

[WANBMUM]

Wow this thread has been so busy the last few days, I cant keep up.

Can I ask a question about donor sperm? for those that know.

Are there legitimate companies that deliver donor sperm for home insemination? Rather than IUI?
What are the pro's and con's?

I am not planning on doing this, I am more curious and want to know ALL of our options.

 

[wibble wobble]

Hi everyone

Mobaby sorry to hear you didn't get any frosties but try to stay positive about the 2 embies that are taking up a 9 month residence in you right now

Wanbmum sorry can't help with companies that deliver sperm, I'm not sure if any of them are legit tbh. 1 of the downsides would be that your partner would not have legal responsibility for a child conceived this way, can you be sure that donors to these kind of companies go through the same tests as sperm bank donors for example gene defects they may have

Sar in the UK if we pay for treatment it can go ahead as soon as you've arranged for a donor. A lot of people are NHS funded and at the minute (because of a change in the law a few years ago,meaning donors can no longer remain anonymous) there is a shortage of men willing to donate it doesn't affect all areas and clinics. I think it's mainly clinics like mine which have only had their own sperm bank for a short time.

Froliky welcome to the thread, sounds like you've had a real tough time getting everything sorted ready for your treatment. Some people are really narrow minded when it comes to what a family unit should consist of.... I think it's great that your future child will have an extra parent in his/her life

afm I saw the consultant today, I didn't get an answer on the waiting list for donor sperm I'll get that when I go next time. It was positive though we got an information pack with all the neccessary forms to fill in,we've been forwarded for counselling and should hear from them in the next week or so. I've had all the forms to repeat blood tests for hormone profiles (my Gp did cd2/3 and cd21 from separate cycles which the clinic doesn't like) and they're doing an AMH test too. All of this should be complete by christmas so hopefully I'll get in to see the consultant in early January. I didn't think so much would happen at this appointment so I'm actually really happy

 

[Sar187]

wibble-I figured that it was due to the NHS system that there was such a wait. I really feel for you guys having to wait so long for all of this stuff to get done! There are definitely pros and cons. Glad to hear your appointment accomplished a lot! I hope things continue to move along for you!

 

[wibble wobble]

I'm so impatient.... only got referred to counselling yesterday and today I'm already waiting for the appointment to turn up!!!! I just can't help myself and I've started counting down the days until my blood tests.... weird or what, but as my cycles are no longer the average 28 days, 1 month it'll be 30 days the next 32 and they seem to alternate all I have is a rough estimate on the countdown

 

[Deb111]

Not weird at all wibble. This journey is just one long waiting list most of the time and so any appt to work towards helps to pass the time and make you feel one step closer xx

 

[waitingginger]

hi all,

its been a while since i posted on here and am sorry to see new members but also happy they found the group for support!!

well an overview of where we are up to:
Diagnosed azoospermia in April 2010
we had a long wait for appointments and scans etc before finally seeing a fertility specalist in April 2011 we were reffered to an endocronologist as there seemed to be issues with my OHs hormone levels. OH was asked to provide regular SAs and blood tests over a 6 month period, which he did, his SAs seemed to show a jump in sperm production to 4.5 million. still no where near enough to get pregnant naturally but a start. however when we went back to see the endocronologist he couldnt give us any info on the quality etc or why his SA results flucuated so much and refused to refer us for any treatment. so i dont know if the good SA result was just a fluke or if the sperm is any good for ICSI.

oh has to give regular SAs and blood tests for another 6 months now. to again monitor what is going on. our next appointment is in March 2012 nearly 2 years after being diagnosed and still not even close to any treatment or any answers.
during our last appointment they couldnt of had us in or out any quicker, they didnt want to answer any questions.

i see so many stories of the shocking care infertile couples seem to get i really think medical staff should have to go through training so that they can understand the importance of these appointments to couples struggling with infertility.

I hope everyone is well!

 

[Step Mummy]

Hi ladies, although I often visit, I don't actually make many posts, except to keep an update on what is happening with us. But I do like to keep up to date on everyone who is going through the same tough journey as us.

Some of you may recall we were diagnosed nearly 2 years ago with Azoo..., and DH had the SSR op in September 2010 and caught an infection which lasted until April 11. Once he recovered we started to deal with using a donor, which we both really struggled with, it took me a few months to come to terms with this before I could start to look at donors. We started the IUI with donor in August and have now had our 3 goes and all have failed.

We went in for our follow-up consultation and I have been told that I now have a low egg reserve - low AMH - which was a complete shock, as all tests before had been fine and I was given a clean bill of fertility health. It seems that the company they were using for tests over a year go were providing incorrect results, and it seems my results must have been a false "normal", when they should have showed up "low". We are completely shocked about this, had we known we may not have taken so long coming to terms with using a donor and giving us time, we would have probably forced ourselves to get on with it last year. They say I am ok as long as we do IUI because this is using natural supply of eggs, but if we need to go into IVF if the IUI fails another 3 times, then we may face problems. There is then the choice, do we go with IUI using natural eggs which are now valuable or go into IVF straight away to make use of the eggs left. Also there will be issues if we wanted a 2nd child later on - so should we IVF now to save some emryos for second child (after getting PG now) - although I think we will be lucky enough to get one baby!

I am just so shocked at this news, also I think I am in denial about the 3 goes have been and gone without a positive response. Because I was told I was fine, I never really imagined needing more than 3 goes.

So now we have to have a 2 month break, this month because of the tube check, and next month because my proceedure would be due on or around xmas day and they are closed.

Just can't believe it - when you think it can't get any worse - oh it does!!!!

Thinking of you all, it's just such a roller coaster - no one really understands who is not or has not been through it - do they?! It's good we all have each other and can see that we are not alone. It also helps just writing it all down!

Keeping postive (well trying)! x

 

[Pink Lolly]

Hi step mummy and Ginger :wave:

Lovely to hear from you both.

Ginger - sorry you're still stuck in limbo land how are thevwedding plans? At least that's a distraction.

Step mummy so sorry about your amh - shocking that they got it wrong first time. We are also about to start donor iui. Have your cycles been medicated? Please don't give up hope xxx

 

[Deb111]

So sorry step mummy - you could do without this! What is your AMH now? Have you had a scan to know how many follicles you have?

Ginger - lovely to hear from you. I'm sorry it seems so frustrating at the moment. Great news that hubby is producing some though. Can they not freeze what they find?

 

[MJ73]

Hi All,
I was wondering if it was ok if I joined you all? (The club that no-one wants to be a member of lol)...Firstly I wanted to say a massive thanks to Deb for starting this thread, we have been on this journey for a while now & this is by far the most intelligent, caring & informed group that I have found. I have read every post on this thread now, so feel like I have been on the journey with you all.
A little (ok, alot) about me; my DH was diagnosed with Azoospermia in September 2010 & I can safely say that it was one of the most devastating pieces of news that I have ever received. We had only been TTC for 4 months (we were married in April 2010 but due to my age we didn't want to wait around) when I had been tracking my cycle & was pretty sure that I was ovulating & were were timing DTD to precision, but still nothing. I just had a gut feeling that something was not right with DH's swimmers, so I convinced him to do a SA, expecting that it may come back with a low number or poor morph but never imagined that the results would come back as zero.
We too had a GP who was ill informed & helped us feel even more hopeless by informing us that there was basically NO hope & that our only option for a child would be to use donor sperm or adopt. Now that I know what I know (and I started researching on the internet instantly) I am furious that GPs seem to know nothing about TESE or ICSI or that it is even possible to extract testicular sperm, let alone the fact that some men with Azoos do go on to father children through this procedure. As is the case with many of you ladies I was the driving force; researching & getting a referral to a Urologist (who was hopeless) then eventually a referral to our beautiful Fertility Specialist.
In the end DH was diagnosed with NOA (Non-Obstructive Azoos) although he does have a Cystic Fybrosis Gene Mutation that is thought to be responsible for the problem, he also has one undescended testicle that was not repaired as a child which probably doesn't help matters. In december 2010 he had a TESE which found some sperm (phew) which were put on ice for our IVF/ICSI cycle in March. However the sperm died upon defrost, something that we were told is very common for testicular sperm. (Our scientist explained to us that with a normal frozen sample well over half the sperm dies upon defrost & that the unfortunate thing with testicular sperm is that there are so few, so the odds of them surviving the thaw are slim.)
In March, my side of the cycle went very well & like I said our frozen sperm did not survive, so DH had to go through his trauma again (in Aus, it is all done under a local, not general aneasthetic), this time they did 16 needle aspirations & eventually had to do surgical retrieval to find swimmers. They retrived 12 eggies from me, 10 were mature, 8 fertilised & 3 made it to 5 day A grade hatching blastocysts. 1 was put in & 2 were put on ice (our clinic prefers to do single embryo transfers). From this cycle I did (surprisingly) achieve a BFP, however suffered a very complicated miscarriage (was in hospital for 3 days) at 6 weeks, the day our heartbeat scan would have been due
We are just at day 10 of a natural frozen cycle to use one of our frosties so all we can do is hope & wait.
Deb the video journal that you did is amazing, DH & I both watched it last night; I sobbed & he got teary too. I need this group, I need to know that we are not alone, that there are other couples out there who are going through this horrible, testing journey. If we must endure this, at least we do not have to do it alone. Who else can ever understand how sad it is to watch the man you love lose his sense of self & doubt his masculinity? My Dh feels too that he is 'not a real man' anymore. We too went from having sex almost daily to once a month if we're lucky. Yet, our relationship has grown stronger & we have grown closer. It does sometimes feel like it's US against THE WORLD... I have read all your stories with tears in my eyes & thank you all for your honest sharing.
I'll sign off for now, thanks so much for listening Sorry for the looong post. Great to 'meet' you all.
MJ

 

[MissAma]

my DH was diagnosed with Azoospermia in September 2010 & I can safely say that it was one of the most devastating pieces of news that I have ever received. We had only been TTC for 4 months (we were married in April 2010 but due to my age we didn't want to wait around) when I had been tracking my cycle & was pretty sure that I was ovulating & were were timing DTD to precision, but still nothing. I just had a gut feeling that something was not right with DH's swimmers, so I convinced him to do a SA, expecting that it may come back with a low number or poor morph but never imagined that the results would come back as zero.
We too had a GP who was ill informed & helped us feel even more hopeless by informing us that there was basically NO hope & that our only option for a child would be to use donor sperm or adopt. Now that I know what I know (and I started researching on the internet instantly) I am furious that GPs seem to know nothing about TESE or ICSI or that it is even possible to extract testicular sperm, let alone the fact that some men with Azoos do go on to father children through this procedure.

MJ - hello there mate! Glad to have you here. Of what you wrote before, if you replace that with our respective dates -2008- then I could have written word per word. Or maybe have even done so. The gut feeling, the shock about zero, the suggestion to adopt, all of it. And even the short lived BFP after the first cycle. Except we had no frosties and had to do it all over again ages later. But as you can see on the left side of this post even IDENTICAL stories have happy endings

You did however scare me with the sperm thaw story and what the specialist said -we tend to believe all things Aussie, we're in the process to immigrate to Perth - because we are going to try that this time around.

It seems that the company they were using for tests over a year go were providing incorrect results, and it seems my results must have been a false "normal", when they should have showed up "low".

Stepmom - that is utterly shocking! I am SO enraged for you, can you sue the laboratory for mental distress? I would!

oh has to give regular SAs and blood tests for another 6 months now. to again monitor what is going on. our next appointment is in March 2012 nearly 2 years after being diagnosed and still not even close to any treatment or any answers.!

Hmmm you're a much better person than I am, I'm more in MJ's impatience boat, I could never wait for them to observe some more, would just jump into ICSI. Have they performed a TESE and frozen any? Is there any reason why you can't get on the IVF waiting list already? In awe of your patience!

Debs - how's you babes?

MoBaby - fingers very crossed!

Silverbell, Wiggle, Sar and everyone else - many s!

AFM - we gave blood for new screening (infection, hepatitis, etc, only valid for 2 years and this is the third time we have to do them basically!) today and as I said on my FB status "this is as close as us infertiles get to a morning romp, ya'll!"

We're likely going to do the ball slashing road trip first week of December and after reading MJ's account about non thawing I am beyond bricking it that something will go wrong and there will be no more sper. As you know when they do SSR they extract tissue and there are only so many extractions before they have no more tissue with spermatogenesis and we already had 2.

Nonetheless I am excited, you girls know how it is, we're a special breed, we're pregnant from the day we started researching the clinic and certainly once we start appointments and injecting, we don't have the rose petals wine fueled romantic night to define when we should start thinking baby but the constant worry and longing and then feeling that if treatment is in progress baby is on its very long way to us... But how exciting is it that for all our pains next year this baby that we talk of now in only theory will be a real person in our bellies or in our arms?

 

[waitingginger]

Hi MJ! so sorry you have had to join and so sorry to hear about your loss!! it really does feel like your against the world doesnt it! we are the same so much closer but almost on a different level because you are going through something that most people can ever understand and you just have to cling to each other! i think its a hard transition going from having sex to make a baby to going back to it being all for enjoyment again when really both your hearts are breaking! my Oh seems like a different person sometimes so much quieter and withdrawn with every body else!

My oh saw a programme i had recorded about a lady whose husband was infertile on sky and he saw it on the planner and read the description and said i am not infertile am i? my heart could of broke for him, i think he doesnt really think about it he just has such a strong determination we will have a child.

Deb, i am assuming they could freeze some pserm although this hasnt been mentioned to us i am assuming they will of just thrown that batch away and moved on to counting the next lot! god help them if it drops back to 0 i will be on the warparth lol! i am assuming if its stays around 4.5mil we will have icsi or ivf.

wedding plans are coming along well, its a nice distraction my spending may of got a bit out of control but hey this wedding is my baby for now lol!

xxx

 

[Step Mummy]

Hi Ladies, thanks for the positive thoughts.

Deb 11 - I have now done three IUI cycles and the folicles are all growing fine, we had one fully grown on two of the goes and two fully grown on the second go. So that side of things is fine. It seems it's the reserve that is in short supply, so I am fine going forward with more IUI goes because you only want 1 folicle each month, but if this doesn't work and we end up with IVF then we may struggle to produce multiple folicles/eggs.

Pink Lolly - My IUI cycles have all been medicated with Ovidrel and Gonal-F. Don't worry about doing these, your natural instinct takes over that you just have to get on with it, and actually it doesn't hurt, the only pain was that twice it stang, but I think that was because I did it right under my belly button both those times, but it was pain free more to the side in my nice roll of fat I have been growing! Also the procedure is more a less pain free, just a little crampy thats all.

I am not sure of the AMH figure, I was in too much shock to ask for figures, but she said it is "Low".
I have my Tube scan on Thursday next week, I just hope that shows up ok, or I will lose the plot!!!

MJ - Welcome to the group - It sounds like you have had a really tought journey, you poor things having to have to SSR's. I don't know how we all survive and keep going - my thoughts are with you.

 

[Deb111]

Welcome MJ and thank you for your lovely words I really appreciate the kind things you said about me starting this thread (it came at a good time when I have been feeling down and made me realise that at least one good thing has come out of this awful journey - the thread and the great friends I have made on it) But that is all I really did; start it. It is all the wonderful girls who have sadly needed to join the thread who have kept it going and made it the wonderfully, supportive thread which it has developed into. I'm glad you sound to already feel 'at home' here.

Step Mummy - try and find out what your AMH level is. Mine is very low for my age - I know we have a different scale in the UK, but I was told at age 35, it should be about 10 and at age 40, it should be about 5. I'm 37 and mine is 1.4 I don't know about IUI, but when I was scanned pre-cycle, I only had a total of 5 follilces - again, not good news when you think that in an IVF cycle, they don't all necessarily produce an egg, not all are mature and not all fertilise or develop. However, with the stims, I grew 8 follicles, got 8 great, mature eggs and 3 fertilised - all to a great standard. Ok - it didn't result in that lovely , but that was just down to the odds. Low fertility / AMH is not an end to it all.

MissAma - very exciting about things progressing so soon with the SSR. I must admit, I kind of knew that you quite often lose a lot of sperm on thawing, but MJ's post reminded me - and it is a concern of mine, especially as I think we only have something like 30 ish frozen. however, I have to remind myself that we only need 1 per egg and we were told by Mr Ramsay that actually the ones that don't survive are the ones that wouldn't have been strong enough or good enough anyway, so at least it saves them injecting sperm that may not be the best. I'm not having a great week to be honest, just feeling that everything in life is an uphill struggle and my Jan FET seems miles away (although I know it's just my impatience and it will be here before I know it )

Ginger - I really would get them to freeze some of the sperm they're finding, at least as a back-up, especially as they don't seem to know how or why your dh's sperm level keeps changing

Love to you all xx

 

[wibble wobble]

Welcome to the thread Mj you've definately found the best place for advice and information (and also support) for azoospermia.

Hi Stepmummy hope you get a clear result on your tube scan next week. And that you get some good advice regarding low AMH/IVF or iui to help you make the best choice for you.

Waitingginger good luck with your wedding plans, When's the big day?

Missama good luck for the ball slashing hope it's a 3rd time extra lucky

Big waves to everyone

afm nothing new to report, still waiting for the counselling appointment to arrive. Oh and I'm praying af doesn't arrive late as day 21 (for next cycle)currently falls dec 22/23 which I think is close enough to christmas as it is. just out of curiosity my cycles now alternate between 30 and 32 days what day is best for the '21' day progesterone test to show the most accurate result