Glamour modelling..

[xemmax]

Couldn't agree more. Love your posts TM!

 

[Sarahcake]

I have a friend who glamour models, she's been all over the place e.g - FHM, Nuts mag and Lynx adverts and she seems to really enjoy it. She gets treated with respect at her shoots and has had a chance to go all over the world with it. She isnt forced to do it, its all her choice, she can pick and choose what shoots shes comfortable with doing and which ones she is not. So I say go for it tbh. Just my opinion though

This is the most common argument which is made when people object to Page 3 ... But it's really missing the point:

I don't deny that the models are well paid, haven't been forced into the work and enjoy what they do I'm not claiming that they are exploited in any way either ...

I object to the continued existence of Page 3 because I believe that it harms all women, not just the women who choose to appear. The real damage caused by printing pictures of topless women for men to leer over every day is done to all those women who didn’t choose it.

It promotes a world view where women are regarded first and foremost as sexual objects. Printing a daily photograph of an attractive young woman baring her breasts for male appreciation creates and reinforces the idea that the primary role of a woman is to be beautiful and sexually available. All other aspects of women’s identities – their talents, abilities, achievements – are secondary. The message constructed and repeated day in, day out, is that women exist primarily for men’s sexual arousal.

That's what I object to

Ahhh Yes, I get what you are saying more now, thank you for elaborating. The above isn't something that affects me personally to be honest, as a woman, I dont feel under any pressure to just be eye candy because there are women that cater to that want from men. To me, the pictures are just a bit of harmless fun. But I can totally understand your train of thought with it.

I am horrible at explaining myself, apologies if the above makes zero sense!

 

[smelly07]

Agree with some of the others - i have never understood why its in the newspaper ? why? just why? and......if there is a why then where the hell is the naked man!!! thats what i want to know!

 

[Sarahkka]

Tattiesmum - it is the context you object to then? Because I agree with your point, but if we removed the issue of the bare breasts, would you still find the picture degrading? The sunshine girl photo over here is doing the exact same thing without the nudity. It is objectifying woman. But I could say the same about half the ads, movie roles, car shows (why on earth did anyone ever decide that selling a car required a girl in a bikini to writhe around on the hood?), etc.
I guess my question is then, where does it end?
Don't get me wrong - I AM rather shocked that a morning paper is running soft porn. I sure don't call that glamour modelling - there's a euphemism, if I ever heard one!
And smelly - I believe they do run a "sunshine boy" picture, but it only happens once a week? I don't know. I wouldn't be caught dead reading anything by the Sun. It is such a rag!

 

[Twister]

I agree with TattiesMum.

There is a time and a place for page 3 type images and imo a newspaper, regardless of the rest of its contents isn't it. I just don't get why it's in there in the first place There are other media sources for stuff like that.

Glamour modelling is fine, if a woman wants to do that as a career then fair enough I have no issues with that. But like I said, there's a time and a place.

 

[Yammas]

I agree you can buy magazines if you dont have access to the internet for pictures like that I never understood why it was in the paper in the first place when its supposed to be about news

On the other hand I do feel that it is the womans right to choose if thats what she wants to do then I dont see why she shouldnt. I dont know if Id do it if I was given the opportunity you dont know whos going to see it or where the images will end up so im not sure.

 

[TattiesMum]

Tattiesmum - it is the context you object to then? Because I agree with your point, but if we removed the issue of the bare breasts, would you still find the picture degrading? The sunshine girl photo over here is doing the exact same thing without the nudity. It is objectifying woman. But I could say the same about half the ads, movie roles, car shows (why on earth did anyone ever decide that selling a car required a girl in a bikini to writhe around on the hood?), etc.
I guess my question is then, where does it end?
Don't get me wrong - I AM rather shocked that a morning paper is running soft porn. I sure don't call that glamour modelling - there's a euphemism, if I ever heard one!

Yes it's the context that I object to and I have to say that I do find the Sunshine Girl just as objectionable to be honest as it sends much the same message

I agree with you too that the use of 'promotion girls' (as the car show writhers etc are called) is also objectifying women but over here such things aren't encountered every day ... whereas Page 3 (and your Sunshine Girls) are in your face, everyday, and casually promulgate the idea that women are just decorative little things for men to look at.

Sadly the Sun (with a reading age of 8 and aimed at the lowest common denominator) has the largest circulation of any UK newspaper, so the impact that it has is significant. Millions of people read it daily and unconsciously take its ideas and values on board. It seems inevitable that seeing those pictures, in that context, every day means that both men and women will absorb the ideology it promotes: that women’s primary role is decorative, not intellectual, and that they do not deserve equal respect.

I'm not naive - objectification of women isn't going to stop any time soon and it's a huge issue that permeates many walks of life. But that doesn't mean that working towards making it unacceptable gradually isn't a good thing. Removing it from a daily paper where it's almost unremarked upon presence is one of the biggest factors contributing to the continued objectification and commodification of women and their bodies in British society seems like a good place to start

 

[smelly07]

There is no page 3 boy over here - equal rights and all

i am not against nudity and magazines and movies and women doing want they want to do at all - but its the images our children are seeing everyday and it isnt equally right or beautifully done, the human body is beautiful and people shouldnt be embarrased by it but how it is all portrayed is just wrong imo there is no need for a page 3 girl - they talk about those types of papers being a family paper .........maybe it should be a breast feeding mother page instead and all sorts of body types and faces and males and females.

I do not read those newspapers either they are a load of rubbish.

 

[Foogirl]

I'm of the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" camp. If women want to sell it, and men want to buy it, and neither come to any harm then its each to their own.

Objectification of women won't stop with the removal of page 3. The blokes working on the building sites I go to will stare and letch at me, regardless of whether they've seen page 3 or not. And there are just as many who won't, despite regularly seeing page 3 (impossible to be on a building site canteen and not seeing it!)

It's not even movies and advertising that are at fault for that objectification, it's attitudes within society and the fact more and more women stand up and speak out against it, teach their boys and girls it is wrong, it how it is going to change.

The establishment, the media, don't set trends, they react to them. When people stop wanting things, they stop producing it, not the other way round. They don't create an audience, they chase it. Attitudes have changed and the media have reacted to it. Page 3 will die a death because the majority don't want it.

 

[lhancock90]

I have no issue with women who want to whip our their natural boobs and flaunt them, power to them.
I do however think they have little place in a newspaper, if they walked down the road with boobs out and all, they'd be arrested, so why is it okay in a publication that isn't on the top shelf?

 

[Foogirl]

I do however think they have little place in a newspaper, if they walked down the road with boobs out and all, they'd be arrested, so why is it okay in a publication that isn't on the top shelf?

I suspect it is because you are agreeing to see the content by buying the paper. You can protect yourself from it by not buying it so it's not considered "public"

 

[RedRose]

Totally in agreement with Tatties mum. (Good to see you posting again!)

Don't have much time to write a proper post atm, but the casual nature of this soft core pornography and the frequency in which we are exposed to it really upsets me. I think we underestimate just how damaging this can be to young girls and their self esteem.

Pretty soon I'm going to be raising two daughters and this honestly frightens me.

 

[Foogirl]

Totally in agreement with Tatties mum. (Good to see you posting again!)

Don't have much time to write a proper post atm, but the casual nature of this soft core pornography and the frequency in which we are exposed to it really upsets me. I think we underestimate just how damaging this can be to young girls and their self esteem.

Pretty soon I'm going to be raising two daughters and this honestly frightens me.

I'm raising a daughter and it doesn't frighten me. Self esteem is something we help our children have, and that can't be taken away by pictures.

It's not so long ago that I was a young girl (well, ok, about 20 years ago) Attitudes to women are far better than they were, and the objectification isn't as overt as it used to be (think benny hill etc) Not only that, we were bombarded with skinny fashion models and girls were just as catty and judgemental as they always were. Sure there is more availability of porn in the internet, but not so different from the magazines that were always passed around, and with parental controls, easy enough to limit. None of this damaged my self esteem because my parents raised me to be confident in my abilities and to know how I looked, or what sex I was, is irrelevant to what I was capable of becoming. With good parenting, your daughters will be absolutely fine.

People complain about how young girls are becoming "sexualised" at such a young age, with unsuitable clothes and encouraged to grow up far too quickly. To me the answer is simple, if you don't like it, don't allow your 8 year old to wear a crop top and mini skirt. Don't send them to makeover parties. Don't let them have a facebook page full of pouting pictures. The argument is always made about allowing them to "fit in" and if they are the only ones not following these trends, they will be picked on and bullied. I'm a believer that not following the crowd and being confident enough to tread a different path, is the best way of building self esteem.

 

[lhancock90]

Totally in agreement with Tatties mum. (Good to see you posting again!)

Don't have much time to write a proper post atm, but the casual nature of this soft core pornography and the frequency in which we are exposed to it really upsets me. I think we underestimate just how damaging this can be to young girls and their self esteem.

Pretty soon I'm going to be raising two daughters and this honestly frightens me.

I'm raising a daughter and it doesn't frighten me. Self esteem is something we help our children have, and that can't be taken away by pictures.

It's not so long ago that I was a young girl (well, ok, about 20 years ago) Attitudes to women are far better than they were, and the objectification isn't as overt as it used to be (think benny hill etc) Not only that, we were bombarded with skinny fashion models and girls were just as catty and judgemental as they always were. Sure there is more availability of porn in the internet, but not so different from the magazines that were always passed around, and with parental controls, easy enough to limit. None of this damaged my self esteem because my parents raised me to be confident in my abilities and to know how I looked, or what sex I was, is irrelevant to what I was capable of becoming. With good parenting, your daughters will be absolutely fine.

People complain about how young girls are becoming "sexualised" at such a young age, with unsuitable clothes and encouraged to grow up far too quickly. To me the answer is simple, if you don't like it, don't allow your 8 year old to wear a crop top and mini skirt. Don't send them to makeover parties. Don't let them have a facebook page full of pouting pictures. The argument is always made about allowing them to "fit in" and if they are the only ones not following these trends, they will be picked on and bullied. I'm a believer that not following the crowd and being confident enough to tread a different path, is the best way of building self esteem.

I find the page 3 girls make me feel that i too need that sort of figure and perfect boobs, it does damage my self esteem.

 

[Foogirl]

I find the page 3 girls make me feel that i too need that sort of figure and perfect boobs, it does damage my self esteem.

What for? The only advantage a page 3 model has over someone without that figure is, they can get a job as a glamour model.

Does not having "perfect boobs" (and my word, isn't THAT something that is very subjective!!) affect your ability to be a good mum? Or to get a job? Or hold down a stable and loving relationship? Do men find you unattractive because you don't have that? (you look pretty good to me!) do women judge you because you don't have it? In my experience, women with that kind of figure are judged to be something most women would not want to be. Plus, I have big boobs and you definitely don't want my back problems that require regular chiro/physio and massage to fix!

Am I entirely happy with my body? Nope, I could do with losing a stone or two. Does it damage my self esteem? Nope, because I am still the same person fat or thin. I'd love to have long shapely legs and be a good 5 inches taller, but that's never going to happen so I accept who I am and be the best me I can.

I have no idea how you were raised or what your life is right now, but I was raised to believe all those things I just wrote, and would never consider that changing my body is going to affect how good my life is. With the exception of it being easier to find clothes that fit - but then, I'll still have to take the hem up on my trousers so I'll always have to live with that.

I always think it is those around you who build or take away your self esteem. But you are the only person who can change that.

If they took away page 3, do you really think you'd feel better about yourself?

 

[tina3747]

Foo girl.. Completely agree, love your previous posts!!

 

[lhancock90]

I find the page 3 girls make me feel that i too need that sort of figure and perfect boobs, it does damage my self esteem.

What for? The only advantage a page 3 model has over someone without that figure is, they can get a job as a glamour model.

Does not having "perfect boobs" (and my word, isn't THAT something that is very subjective!!) affect your ability to be a good mum? Or to get a job? Or hold down a stable and loving relationship? Do men find you unattractive because you don't have that? (you look pretty good to me!) do women judge you because you don't have it? In my experience, women with that kind of figure are judged to be something most women would not want to be. Plus, I have big boobs and you definitely don't want my back problems that require regular chiro/physio and massage to fix!

Am I entirely happy with my body? Nope, I could do with losing a stone or two. Does it damage my self esteem? Nope, because I am still the same person fat or thin. I'd love to have long shapely legs and be a good 5 inches taller, but that's never going to happen so I accept who I am and be the best me I can.

I have no idea how you were raised or what your life is right now, but I was raised to believe all those things I just wrote, and would never consider that changing my body is going to affect how good my life is. With the exception of it being easier to find clothes that fit - but then, I'll still have to take the hem up on my trousers so I'll always have to live with that.

I always think it is those around you who build or take away your self esteem. But you are the only person who can change that.

If they took away page 3, do you really think you'd feel better about yourself?

I have big boobs so thats not the issue, its the image that that is the perfect figure that all men want that gets to me.
Brilliant if it doesn't affect you at all, wish i had your self esteem.

 

[Foogirl]

I have big boobs so thats not the issue, its the image that that is the perfect figure that all men want that gets to me.
Brilliant if it doesn't affect you at all, wish i had your self esteem.

But that's just it. If men only wanted women with perfect figures, us fatties would never find a bloke. Mr Foo always comments that women with "perfect figure" need to eat a pie.

The kind of men who want women with that figure are shallow, usually really vain and frankly not worth your time.

It works the other way to. Sure I like to look at men with lovely muscly physiques, but I don't love my husband any the less because he doesn't have one. I'd rather he spent his time cuddling with me on the sofa, than down the gym.

I think the biggest secret no-one ever seems to let on is, self esteem is yours and yours alone. The only person stopping you being happy with yourself, is you. Look at what you've done with your life, look at the things you love about yourself and at least once a day, look in the mirror, smile at yourself, and tell yourself you're pretty damned good. You deserve it.

I also remember someone saying once, if a friend or relative or partner was as critical about you, as you are about yourself, you'd be pretty pissed off with them, wouldn't you? So why do women do it to themselves?

 

[special_kala]

Agree with foo girl 100%

We give the media far too much power over us. I have honestly never looked at magazines and thought i wanted to be like them. Im happy as who i am, i hope that attitude is something i can pass on to my girls.

I was raised in a family where my dad constantly took the piss out of "fat" people and my mum was very very skinny and come out with classics such as "i had lunch yesterday so im not hungry today". That stuff doesnt touch me because i control my self esteem no one else.

 

[RedRose]

My issue isn't with how 'perfect' page 3 boobs are compared to my own- it's with the lax attitude to soft core pornography and the way it's used in our society. Despite our best efforts as parents, we *are* shaped hugely by the attitudes of the society and culture we live in. And yes we can choose not to buy mini skirts for children, and not to buy The Sun, but we still ultimately live in a place and time where it's deemed acceptable to feature pornographic nudity in daily paper, to have explicit, violent sexuality in our pop music for children, to use provocative pictures of women to sell products to both males and females. These are just drops in the ocean of perpetuating that a woman's value is inherently, intrinsically linked to her appearance, and these ideas are cemented in young minds well well well before they have the capacity to contextualise or critically assess them. By the time we as parents can have a meaningful conversation about it, it's already too late in my opinion.

I know I seem to be veering away from page 3 and leaning towards the children issue, but I hope I have been able to explain why I feel page 3 and the casual porn culture makes me feel the way I do.

I don't think we should have to battle against the common idea that it's ok to display pornography and sexuality in that way. I think we should be able to live in a society where females are treated as the equals that they are, and that pornography and sexuality, however soft, should be treated as adult issues.


ETA- my point is, self esteem shouldn't be a battle. We shouldn't have to learn to find good self-esteem in a place where it's hard to come by.