I have to...

[LulaBug]

My personal view is that God didn't give us our son, WE gave us our son!
I don't believe in God because it's a personal choice for me. I choose not to because I don't feel like there is anything to believe in.

The only person I believe in with regards to making any difference to MY life is myself. God won't teach me lifes lessons, only I can do certain things to teach myself lifes lessons.

Each to their own. If my son chooses to believe in God when he is older then that's a matter for him, but from my own personal point of view, I choose to believe in myself because I'm the one who makes my life the way it is ultimately and I chose to bring my child into the world and I will spend the rest of my life making sure he's happy!

xxx

 

[kiwimama]

I'm sorry, but saying that babies dying is all part of gods cause or that terribly bad things happen to good people because they are weak and don't have faith in god is just wrong.

When my kids come and ask me why is that that babies or children die when they are so young, I will be telling them it is because the world is sometimes horribly unfair, and that it is a very very sad thing to happen. I won't be telling them it is because it was gods plan or that it was because their parents didn't have enough faith and were so weak the devil got to them.....

 

[PrayinForBaby]

I'm sorry, but saying that babies dying is all part of gods cause or that terribly bad things happen to good people because they are weak and don't have faith in god is just wrong.

When my kids come and ask me why is that that babies or children die when they are so young, I will be telling them it is because the world is sometimes horribly unfair, and that it is a very very sad thing to happen. I won't be telling them it is because it was gods plan or that it was because their parents didn't have enough faith and were so weak the devil got to them.....

I never said thats why babies die...I think it's a tragic loss for a baby, child, mother, father, sister, brother, grandmother, anyone to die....I'm just saying that I don't blame God for losses. I blame circumstances and time. I think God is actually comforting through times of losses and helps guide people in the right direction after something terrible has happened, but I don't think God kills people. I don't know how that got taken into that context. In the grand scheme of things, I personally believe that all things happen for a reason, we may question it, we may be hurt, angry, upset, feel lost, what have you, but I do believe that one day, when everything is said and done that we will find out the meaning and reasonings behind why things are done and why things happen the way they do. If I have said something highly offensive to anyone then I am truly sorry for that.

 

[forgodssake]

I am def not getting involved in this one, will say my piece then that's it. I really don't think it is something people should be fighting over on here, aren't there enough people in the world fighting about religion???

I really believe that if there ever comes a time in your life where you are faced with loosing someone you love, I guarantee you will beg, plead and pray to God as hard as you possibly can, maybe some people say they don't believe in God but I'm sure it won't be that when you are begging for his help. If I had to live with the thought there was no heaven, God etc I would be so terrified, I live with the comfort of knowing that I will see the people I have lost again.

And from a scientific pov this is EXACTLY what religion is born of - FEAR.

We believe in our "Gods" because its the less scary route than believing in eternal nothingness!!

 

[forgodssake]

I know this is going to start such a huge debate, so I will forewarn with that....but its been something nagging at me for a little while with some people I know in person and now I've run across it on here so I just have to say it....No one even needs to reply to this thread but its my way of getting it off my chest.....


How on earth can you not believe in God and look into your babies eyes everyday!?!?!?!

ok...just had to get that out.

So.. how do you explain the babies born with terrible disabilities etc and thats just for starters

that was abit harsh

I think its a valid question. If your baby is supposedly a gift given by God then how must it feel to be a religious parent of a severely disabled child?

I think you should take it as a compliment that God sees you strong enough and mentally capable of taking care of a child with such special needs. Why does a parent have to "suffer" because their child has a terrible disablilty? All children are blessings from God and I can only feel sorry for the people who don't feel that way on their judgement day, but again, thats just my opinion.

Now THIS I find offensive - take your pity elsewhere lady, dont waste it on me because I have a different opinion to you!! Because at the end of the day, with no proof (of which there isnt) thats all it is, an OPINION!

 

[Tegans Mama]

I know this is going to start such a huge debate, so I will forewarn with that....but its been something nagging at me for a little while with some people I know in person and now I've run across it on here so I just have to say it....No one even needs to reply to this thread but its my way of getting it off my chest.....


How on earth can you not believe in God and look into your babies eyes everyday!?!?!?!

ok...just had to get that out.

So.. how do you explain the babies born with terrible disabilities etc and thats just for starters

that was abit harsh

I think its a valid question. If your baby is supposedly a gift given by God then how must it feel to be a religious parent of a severely disabled child?

I actually find this quite offensive if I'm honest.

I am the parent of a severely disabled child - a child with a 'terrible disability as it was so kindly put - who is the most beautiful little girl I ever laid eyes on. A miracle. I am also religious, though not many would think it, but what I do with my life, is my business, so before you pass judgement on me, please beware I am all too capable of passing judgement right back at you too.

I did 'blame' G-d for Tegan being disabled. I wondered if maybe she was born the way she is because of 'something' I did with my life, but then, after a while, I decided that we were chosen as her parents, because earth was ready for a child with a disability and G-d had to pick where that child went. We were the ones who ended up with her - and I am thankful every day because of that. The 'little things' that make her different - legs that don't work, physical disabilities - are nothing. The fact that she is here with us is what matters.

My baby is not 'supposedly' a gift from G-d - she IS a gift from G-d, as are all children, regardless of their physical and mental wellness.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe EVERYTHING is caused by G-d, I wish I had enough faith now to believe that, but my child is the one thing that gives me a bit of faith.

I wonder if maybe this topic should have been - DO you believe in G-d? - Instead of being in an accusatory tone.

BTW I am NOT Christian. I am Jewish.



Disclaimer - I don't normally speak like this - to those who know me, please realise that I would never push my belief's on anyone and I do not disrespect other people for not believing. You have your opinion and I have mine, but I think you are all great women just the same, regardless of what you believe

 

[leelee]

Tbh I don't know why the OP posted this thread if they know it will cause debate and alot of upset, as I know if I lost a baby I couldn't believe in god and this thread would upset me, sorry if anyone disagrees x

I agree...this could cause alot of upset x

Just so everyone knows, I have lost a baby and I do not believe that it was God's fault. I'm a believer in God's will shall be done and when bad things happen I know that it's either one of two things, either thats how its supposed to happen in the grand scheme of things, or its the devil actions being manifested by a weak soul. Again....my opinion. I have had way too many good things happen in my life to NOT believe that there is a God out there and that he is the reason that I have the good things in my life that I have. I am a blessed woman, wife, and mom and I thank him everyday for it.

what the hell is this supposed to mean?!?

Oh goodness, Im gonna get ripped to shreds over this, but you asked and this is what i think that means:

it means that your faith is weak. thats why the devil is able to manipulate so easily because you don't have a strong foundation of faith to hold on to.

I believe that people's faith does get them through hard times.

But what you say about the devil being able to manipulate people doesn't make sense. What are you trying to say - that because someone doesn't believe in God - the devil can enter their life and make bad things happen? How do you explain someone who is deeply religious that lose a baby - is that part of Gods plan?

Just stop for one minute and think how this could make someone feel who has lost a child. Do you think they should blame their lack of faith on that? I don't think so. I don't think any of us know why bad things happen to people, and how arrogant of you to think you do. Just because it is taught in your church doesn't mean it is true. To be honest it is mad attitudes like that that push people away from the church.

 

[jenny82]

And I'll add one last time, I figure on BnB we can talk about cervical mucus, circumsicion, removing cat's claws, etc etc etc....so why can't I let out a little frustration? Maybe I let it out wrong, but thats my bad...I believe one way, you believe another and thats that. I dont go to church and sit in a pew every Sunday, but I have faith, and I know God, he knows me, we talk daily...rather I talk and take small cues/intuitions/guidances silently from Him. Thats how I see it, and yes, I see myself and my husband in my daughter when I look at her, but I also see what miracle it is that she is alive and healthy and absolutely perfect to me and I can't see how just me and my husband made something that grand without a little intervention from somewhere.

So I can come online and judge you for believing in something as ridiculous as a 'god', for only behaving a certain way because you're told to, for being weak enough to have to have something to believe in in order to live your life properly... And you'll not be offended by this?

It seems to me that if you can come online and judge others, you should be able to take a Bit of judgement yourself?

 

[PrayinForBaby]

Tbh I don't know why the OP posted this thread if they know it will cause debate and alot of upset, as I know if I lost a baby I couldn't believe in god and this thread would upset me, sorry if anyone disagrees x

I agree...this could cause alot of upset x

Just so everyone knows, I have lost a baby and I do not believe that it was God's fault. I'm a believer in God's will shall be done and when bad things happen I know that it's either one of two things, either thats how its supposed to happen in the grand scheme of things, or its the devil actions being manifested by a weak soul. Again....my opinion. I have had way too many good things happen in my life to NOT believe that there is a God out there and that he is the reason that I have the good things in my life that I have. I am a blessed woman, wife, and mom and I thank him everyday for it.

what the hell is this supposed to mean?!?

Oh goodness, Im gonna get ripped to shreds over this, but you asked and this is what i think that means:

it means that your faith is weak. thats why the devil is able to manipulate so easily because you don't have a strong foundation of faith to hold on to.

I believe that people's faith does get them through hard times.

But what you say about the devil being able to manipulate people doesn't make sense. What are you trying to say - that because someone doesn't believe in God - the devil can enter their life and make bad things happen? How do you explain someone who is deeply religious that lose a baby - is that part of Gods plan?

Just stop for one minute and think how this could make someone feel who has lost a child. Do you think they should blame their lack of faith on that? I don't think so. I don't think any of us know why bad things happen to people, and how arrogant of you to think you do. Just because it is taught in your church doesn't mean it is true. To be honest it is mad attitudes like that that push people away from the church.

if you read all of my posts, you will see, I don't blame God or the devil for death, I blame time and cirmcumstances. I blame the devil for psycopaths, murderers, war, etc etc etc

 

[PrayinForBaby]

And I'll add one last time, I figure on BnB we can talk about cervical mucus, circumsicion, removing cat's claws, etc etc etc....so why can't I let out a little frustration? Maybe I let it out wrong, but thats my bad...I believe one way, you believe another and thats that. I dont go to church and sit in a pew every Sunday, but I have faith, and I know God, he knows me, we talk daily...rather I talk and take small cues/intuitions/guidances silently from Him. Thats how I see it, and yes, I see myself and my husband in my daughter when I look at her, but I also see what miracle it is that she is alive and healthy and absolutely perfect to me and I can't see how just me and my husband made something that grand without a little intervention from somewhere.

So I can come online and judge you for believing in something as ridiculous as a 'god', for only behaving a certain way because you're told to, for being weak enough to have to have something to believe in in order to live your life properly... And you'll not be offended by this?

It seems to me that if you can come online and judge others, you should be able to take a Bit of judgement yourself?

I don't behave any which way because I'm told to, I'm not telling anyone how to live their life, I am not weak nor do I have to have something to believe in....I choose to. I choose these beliefs, may they be right or wrong. I never said that I judged anyone on here for believing what they do so please...do not put words in my mouth. And I can take judgement, just when its put into question I'll answer it to my best ability.

 

[leelee]

Tbh I don't know why the OP posted this thread if they know it will cause debate and alot of upset, as I know if I lost a baby I couldn't believe in god and this thread would upset me, sorry if anyone disagrees x

I agree...this could cause alot of upset x

Just so everyone knows, I have lost a baby and I do not believe that it was God's fault. I'm a believer in God's will shall be done and when bad things happen I know that it's either one of two things, either thats how its supposed to happen in the grand scheme of things, or its the devil actions being manifested by a weak soul. Again....my opinion. I have had way too many good things happen in my life to NOT believe that there is a God out there and that he is the reason that I have the good things in my life that I have. I am a blessed woman, wife, and mom and I thank him everyday for it.

what the hell is this supposed to mean?!?

Oh goodness, Im gonna get ripped to shreds over this, but you asked and this is what i think that means:

it means that your faith is weak. thats why the devil is able to manipulate so easily because you don't have a strong foundation of faith to hold on to.

I believe that people's faith does get them through hard times.

But what you say about the devil being able to manipulate people doesn't make sense. What are you trying to say - that because someone doesn't believe in God - the devil can enter their life and make bad things happen? How do you explain someone who is deeply religious that lose a baby - is that part of Gods plan?

Just stop for one minute and think how this could make someone feel who has lost a child. Do you think they should blame their lack of faith on that? I don't think so. I don't think any of us know why bad things happen to people, and how arrogant of you to think you do. Just because it is taught in your church doesn't mean it is true. To be honest it is mad attitudes like that that push people away from the church.

if you read all of my posts, you will see, I don't blame God or the devil for death, I blame time and cirmcumstances. I blame the devil for psycopaths, murderers, war, etc etc etc

That's not what you said in that post - you said when bad things happen 'thats how its supposed to happen in the grand scheme of things', 'or its the devil actions being manifested by a weak soul'. You didn't specify murderers etc, so how are peopele supposed to understand what you are trying to say?

 

[PrayinForBaby]

I'm sorry, but saying that babies dying is all part of gods cause or that terribly bad things happen to good people because they are weak and don't have faith in god is just wrong.

When my kids come and ask me why is that that babies or children die when they are so young, I will be telling them it is because the world is sometimes horribly unfair, and that it is a very very sad thing to happen. I won't be telling them it is because it was gods plan or that it was because their parents didn't have enough faith and were so weak the devil got to them.....

I never said thats why babies die...I think it's a tragic loss for a baby, child, mother, father, sister, brother, grandmother, anyone to die....I'm just saying that I don't blame God for losses. I blame circumstances and time. I think God is actually comforting through times of losses and helps guide people in the right direction after something terrible has happened, but I don't think God kills people. I don't know how that got taken into that context. In the grand scheme of things, I personally believe that all things happen for a reason, we may question it, we may be hurt, angry, upset, feel lost, what have you, but I do believe that one day, when everything is said and done that we will find out the meaning and reasonings behind why things are done and why things happen the way they do. If I have said something highly offensive to anyone then I am truly sorry for that.

ok, so I didn't include murderers and what have you, but thats what I meant as far as "bad things"...

 

[redpoppy]

Can i throw a spanner in the works here as someone who is religious? The whole God v. Not God debate gets dull and tiresome for me. But those who are religious, do you really not blame God for the devil? Because with Christian (and Islamic) theology didn't God make the devil? Please answer...

 

[PrayinForBaby]

Can i throw a spanner in the works here as someone who is religious? The whole God v. Not God debate gets dull and tiresome for me. But those who are religious, do you really not blame God for the devil? Because with Christian (and Islamic) theology didn't God make the devil? Please answer...

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the devil is the fallen angel...supposively like God's right hand man until he questioned the faith and quit believing...I'm not too sure exactly tbh. I don't really see the devil as a person if that makes sense, I see it as a feeling or prescense or influence. But thats just me lol

 

[redpoppy]

Can i throw a spanner in the works here as someone who is religious? The whole God v. Not God debate gets dull and tiresome for me. But those who are religious, do you really not blame God for the devil? Because with Christian (and Islamic) theology didn't God make the devil? Please answer...

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the devil is the fallen angel...supposively like God's right hand man until he questioned the faith and quit believing...I'm not too sure exactly tbh. I don't really see the devil as a person if that makes sense, I see it as a feeling or prescense or influence. But thats just me lol

I don't think any of them is a person but that's me. But if God is all knowing and nothing can happen without his will then the devil was part of his plan no? Sending Adam and Eve into the garden knowing full well what would transpire. Or did everything catch God off guard?

 

[PrayinForBaby]

Can i throw a spanner in the works here as someone who is religious? The whole God v. Not God debate gets dull and tiresome for me. But those who are religious, do you really not blame God for the devil? Because with Christian (and Islamic) theology didn't God make the devil? Please answer...

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the devil is the fallen angel...supposively like God's right hand man until he questioned the faith and quit believing...I'm not too sure exactly tbh. I don't really see the devil as a person if that makes sense, I see it as a feeling or prescense or influence. But thats just me lol

I don't think any of them is a person but that's me. But if God is all knowing and nothing can happen without his will then the devil was part of his plan no? Sending Adam and Eve into the garden knowing full well what would transpire. Or did everything catch God off guard?

I believe he sent them into the garden with faith that they would do as he had guided them, but somewhere along the way they fell off the wagon and the devil took hold with his temptation. I think thats where it all started to get hairy.

 

[redpoppy]

Can i throw a spanner in the works here as someone who is religious? The whole God v. Not God debate gets dull and tiresome for me. But those who are religious, do you really not blame God for the devil? Because with Christian (and Islamic) theology didn't God make the devil? Please answer...

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the devil is the fallen angel...supposively like God's right hand man until he questioned the faith and quit believing...I'm not too sure exactly tbh. I don't really see the devil as a person if that makes sense, I see it as a feeling or prescense or influence. But thats just me lol

I don't think any of them is a person but that's me. But if God is all knowing and nothing can happen without his will then the devil was part of his plan no? Sending Adam and Eve into the garden knowing full well what would transpire. Or did everything catch God off guard?

I believe he sent them into the garden with faith that they would do as he had guided them, but somewhere along the way they fell off the wagon and the devil took hold with his temptation. I think thats where it all started to get hairy.

Thanks for your responses. I suppose i find that a contradictory story but despite not understanding your belief i suppose it's a common one. But i suppose i also think that since traditional religion is fraught with contradiction you should understand how many many people are opposed to it and how they cannot believe in it. If God is weak or can be caught by surprise then he doesn't match scientific advancements. I do believe in God by the way but just not how most people think. I also understand how people look into their babies eyes with wonder and see the 'miracle' of life and the history of the universe and think that "God couldn't have made all that". I also understand the spiritual joy of seeing the same thing, or a tree, or a leaf and feeling an awareness of God reverberate through me. Humans are complex beings and I think by not being able to see another perspective despite your own resounding and elated faith means you cut yourself off from your fellow man. I understand your original sentiment and share it in essence but i can totally see why people think I or you are nuts.

 

[jenny82]

And I'll add one last time, I figure on BnB we can talk about cervical mucus, circumsicion, removing cat's claws, etc etc etc....so why can't I let out a little frustration? Maybe I let it out wrong, but thats my bad...I believe one way, you believe another and thats that. I dont go to church and sit in a pew every Sunday, but I have faith, and I know God, he knows me, we talk daily...rather I talk and take small cues/intuitions/guidances silently from Him. Thats how I see it, and yes, I see myself and my husband in my daughter when I look at her, but I also see what miracle it is that she is alive and healthy and absolutely perfect to me and I can't see how just me and my husband made something that grand without a little intervention from somewhere.

So I can come online and judge you for believing in something as ridiculous as a 'god', for only behaving a certain way because you're told to, for being weak enough to have to have something to believe in in order to live your life properly... And you'll not be offended by this?

It seems to me that if you can come online and judge others, you should be able to take a Bit of judgement yourself?

I don't behave any which way because I'm told to, I'm not telling anyone how to live their life, I am not weak nor do I have to have something to believe in....I choose to. I choose these beliefs, may they be right or wrong. I never said that I judged anyone on here for believing what they do so please...do not put words in my mouth. And I can take judgement, just when its put into question I'll answer it to my best ability.

How can you say that you didn't judge anyone when you began the post with shouting a question in massive, vulgar, pink font?

Imo you are incredibly rude. And if rudeness is God's way then I'm glad I'm not religious.

ETA: I would like to see the response if I started a thread questioning all those who were religious - christian and non-christian.

 

[PrayinForBaby]

And I'll add one last time, I figure on BnB we can talk about cervical mucus, circumsicion, removing cat's claws, etc etc etc....so why can't I let out a little frustration? Maybe I let it out wrong, but thats my bad...I believe one way, you believe another and thats that. I dont go to church and sit in a pew every Sunday, but I have faith, and I know God, he knows me, we talk daily...rather I talk and take small cues/intuitions/guidances silently from Him. Thats how I see it, and yes, I see myself and my husband in my daughter when I look at her, but I also see what miracle it is that she is alive and healthy and absolutely perfect to me and I can't see how just me and my husband made something that grand without a little intervention from somewhere.

So I can come online and judge you for believing in something as ridiculous as a 'god', for only behaving a certain way because you're told to, for being weak enough to have to have something to believe in in order to live your life properly... And you'll not be offended by this?

It seems to me that if you can come online and judge others, you should be able to take a Bit of judgement yourself?

I don't behave any which way because I'm told to, I'm not telling anyone how to live their life, I am not weak nor do I have to have something to believe in....I choose to. I choose these beliefs, may they be right or wrong. I never said that I judged anyone on here for believing what they do so please...do not put words in my mouth. And I can take judgement, just when its put into question I'll answer it to my best ability.

How can you say that you didn't judge anyone when you began the post with shouting a question in massive, vulgar, pink font?

Imo you are incredibly rude. And if rudeness is God's way then I'm glad I'm not religious.

ETA: I would like to see the response if I started a thread questioning all those who were religious - christian and non-christian.

I forewarned my post, you didn't have to read it. I'm not being rude, I apologized if I offended anyone and I still do. Clearly people have different views than I do and that is okay, I'm not the one going to be doing any judging...not my place. I just can't see how, with my baby, when I look at her, I know my hubby and I are good, but we aren't that good. There had to be some divine intervention somewhere for my baby to be this perfect, beautiful, healthy, smart little girl. Thats how I feel about my daughter. I didn't ask you to feel that way about your children, thats just how I feel. And the reason the post was started was because I had this on my mind. Sue me for throwing it out there. Again, if I offended you, I'm sorry...but I am not judging you or anyone else. I'm just saying this is me and this is how I feel about it. And I'm open to seeing how everyone else feels as well. I don't have to agree with it or even like it, but I'm not closed off to hearing it.

 

[forgodssake]

And I'll add one last time, I figure on BnB we can talk about cervical mucus, circumsicion, removing cat's claws, etc etc etc....so why can't I let out a little frustration? Maybe I let it out wrong, but thats my bad...I believe one way, you believe another and thats that. I dont go to church and sit in a pew every Sunday, but I have faith, and I know God, he knows me, we talk daily...rather I talk and take small cues/intuitions/guidances silently from Him. Thats how I see it, and yes, I see myself and my husband in my daughter when I look at her, but I also see what miracle it is that she is alive and healthy and absolutely perfect to me and I can't see how just me and my husband made something that grand without a little intervention from somewhere.

So I can come online and judge you for believing in something as ridiculous as a 'god', for only behaving a certain way because you're told to, for being weak enough to have to have something to believe in in order to live your life properly... And you'll not be offended by this?

It seems to me that if you can come online and judge others, you should be able to take a Bit of judgement yourself?

I don't behave any which way because I'm told to, I'm not telling anyone how to live their life, I am not weak nor do I have to have something to believe in....I choose to. I choose these beliefs, may they be right or wrong. I never said that I judged anyone on here for believing what they do so please...do not put words in my mouth. And I can take judgement, just when its put into question I'll answer it to my best ability.

You didnt have to spell it out - your OP and the post that I quoted in my first response did the judging for themselves!