One Born>?

[aob1013]

I love this section. Honestly in other threads I simply said I didn't think the episode was a great advert for natural birthing again and have been defending myself on it all day! Forgive me for this next comment, but lots of women who haven't been in labour yet talking about how you have your own mind and can say no and can't be forced into anything etc. I'm resisting saying anything back. I don't want to be the jaded, bad experience, nutty, natural-birther woman! And I just don't understand why everyone is so keen to defend the medics over the women in labour getting proper explanations and choices.

People that don't know what they are talking about are the hardest to convince ... i was one of them!

 

[PeanutBean]

Well that is true but I don't want to say that! I only have my own one experience and I carry a whole world of biases with that, I am totally aware that I do. I try hard on here to say it can be bad it can be good, it's best you know both sides and their liklihood and any alternatives in order to choose what's right for you. But in my head I am so often screaming NOOOOO!!!! But there is so much burying of heads in the sand. I just cannot get my own head around it.

 

[Tasha]

Oh the forceps scared me too, not just the look but the brute force they use.

 

[Jenniflower]

I love this section. Honestly in other threads I simply said I didn't think the episode was a great advert for natural birthing again and have been defending myself on it all day! Forgive me for this next comment, but lots of women who haven't been in labour yet talking about how you have your own mind and can say no and can't be forced into anything etc. I'm resisting saying anything back. I don't want to be the jaded, bad experience, nutty, natural-birther woman! And I just don't understand why everyone is so keen to defend the medics over the women in labour getting proper explanations and choices.

It's because we've been trained to listen to the doctor. Doctor knows best, listen to the doctor, go to the doctor. People don't realize that actually as humans we know are bodies better than any stranger with a degree ever will. Which is why doctors and midwives need to be more open to offering different opinions and advice when met with different people. Something that IMO doesn't happen often enough.

Completely un baby related but I had a horrible pain in my heel and back ankle and when I went to my GP she told me there's nothing we could do, that I would have to get better shoes and maybe find a job where I wasn't on my feet all day. In the end I didn't listen to her and self referred myself (we have Bupa through hubby's work) to a foot doctor (what are they called? hahaha) who took as xray and found I had swelling in my heel. I was sent off to a Physio who used ultrasound technology to fix that bit and he also realized the reason my heel hurt was because I had early tendinitis in it. If I had listened to my GP I would still be in pain with worse tendinitis and the swelling in my heel would have caused a heel spur!

My point is it's not all about birth. It's about the medical practice in general. Some doctors may hate it when a patient comes in with suggestions and ideas about what's wrong with them, but when the majority of doctors treat you as a number and not as an individual what do they expect us to do?!

Man... I'm ranty today.

 

[Guera]

Im in the US and the second show of the first season is on tonight. I will be watching, but it was just torture for me last week. I was yelling at the tv the entire time. OH kept telling me to just change the channel, but it is like a train wreck, I just cant turn away.

 

[PeanutBean]

I know jenni. But I hate how brainwashed people are. I just want to shake them into using their brains. You know it's not even just medicine it's The Expert and Research. A thread on washing new baby clothes talked of research that showed new clothes are covered in wee and poo and semen and others said they'd seen people sneeze on their hands then touch baby clothes! There was outcry and disgust. So I looked it up. Turns out it came from a US media stunt and was far from research. I looked up how long flu might live on fabric - just a few hours. So I posted this and suddenly the viability of the research is no longer the point, the fear is! Just because the thing that filled people with fear is crap and lies doesn't matter! It's the same with everything.

I hope my post makes sense about what I'm getting at!

 

[Bournefree]

That makes total sense to me PB - Have you seen Charlie Broker's "how TV ruined your life" on fear. You can still watch it on BBC iplayer. Very funny look at how we a a society are afraid of almost everything!

Guera - Is it the UK version being shown or a US version? I'd like to see a US version.
xXx

 

[PeanutBean]

I'll look that up today Bourne, off sick so any watching is good for me!

See this is why I went into science communication for a career. Ever since the GM scare in theatre '90s when it said on tv news we'd be cannibals because human genes were being put into fish it's been my mission. But sometimes I just don't have the strength when so many people are determined to simply not think for themselves. Ok I'll finish shunting this thread OT now!

 

[Bournefree]

Oh dear, your still not feeling well?! Is Bryon still sick too? Poor you.. I prescribe laying in bed with the laptop and lots of tea and toast!

There is no greater thing than knowledge, but also no greater danger than alittle knowledge! But we all should be asking questions and challanging even our own ideas!

I've been a busy bee these last few days skivving up o my medical law, getting in touch with my MP etc... but it is becoming such a long winded battle to get a homebirth this time round, that I think I'll post a seperate thread to let everyone know what's going on with my fight and keep it updated (it is going to take an age to get results)- and hope that noone else has to go through the same!
XxX
Xxx

 

[PeanutBean]

It's ridiculous that you or any of us should have to fight so hard for what should be normal.

I'll go look for your thread (if you've made it yet!).

I'm horribly ill but apart from the rash Byron is much better. I threw up from coughing last night. Very much not impressed.

 

[Jenniflower]

I know jenni. But I hate how brainwashed people are. I just want to shake them into using their brains. You know it's not even just medicine it's The Expert and Research. A thread on washing new baby clothes talked of research that showed new clothes are covered in wee and poo and semen and others said they'd seen people sneeze on their hands then touch baby clothes! There was outcry and disgust. So I looked it up. Turns out it came from a US media stunt and was far from research. I looked up how long flu might live on fabric - just a few hours. So I posted this and suddenly the viability of the research is no longer the point, the fear is! Just because the thing that filled people with fear is crap and lies doesn't matter! It's the same with everything.

I hope my post makes sense about what I'm getting at!

That makes completely sense, it's like the MMR shot in reference to autism and even though it's been shown to be a complete waste of time and a hoax people are still afraid. Actually what you've just said about media bringing fear into science is one of my Hubby's biggest pet peeves. He hates when I come out with something like "No we can't do that!" but I don't have any research behind why not, just a "Well I read it on BBC this morning!" He has really pushed me to be so much knowledgeable about things I feel passionately about. We got in a huge argument in sainsbury's once because he wasn't to buy blue toilet paper and I said no it needs to be white because you should have colour in your TP. He was like why? I said I watched it on 20/20 (an american news show) He blew up at me! hahahaha.

He also loves that Charlie Broker thing. I still haven't seen it I keep meaning to though, I really should. There's also this great book he just read about all the lies in media science. How the media takes a research project but doesn't really understand it so then writes about it but it gets taken completely out of context. Actually I'll find out the name because given your sciencey background I think you'd really like it.

 

[PeanutBean]

Lol jenni if I weren't working in the field I might have time to read about it! In the sci com community we go round in circles about the media. It's the fault of the headline writer; it's because sensationalism sells papers; it's because journalists don't understand science; it's because scientists don't properly explain the science; it's because journalists don't do proper research; it's because there isn't free open access to scientific literature; it's because...it's because... But there is never any change to the endless debate. And it's not good enough.

Ben Goldacre who does Bad Science in the Guardian is quite good though as a GP he has his own biases. We natural birthers would definitely butt head's with his over some things.

 

[Jenniflower]

Lol jenni if I weren't working in the field I might have time to read about it! In the sci com community we go round in circles about the media. It's the fault of the headline writer; it's because sensationalism sells papers; it's because journalists don't understand science; it's because scientists don't properly explain the science; it's because journalists don't do proper research; it's because there isn't free open access to scientific literature; it's because...it's because... But there is never any change to the endless debate. And it's not good enough.

Ben Goldacre who does Bad Science in the Guardian is quite good though as a GP he has his own biases. We natural birthers would definitely butt head's with his over some things.

It was Ben Goldacre I was talking about! hahaha. Here's the book DH read.

 

[ellieb31]

Sorry to gatecrash the thread. There's obem conversations every week and I've not joined any of yet but you seem like a rational group of people so I hope there's room here for one more!!

I'm actually giving birth at princess Anne so I see the show as good research and it has certainly made me realise that I need to have a clear picture of what I want before I go in. The odd thing is that I've done the Nhs antenatal classes in the local area and the midwives seem to advocate as natural a birth as possible within the boundaries of what each woman personally wants. The show does a very poor job of demonstrating that attitude though. It seems to me as though each week they try and make one woman look bad and silly and another woman look sensible and rational.

I really wish that they would show more births from the midwife run unit but they do tend to prefer the labour ward (for the drama presumably).

Have any of you seen the shows done at Portland hospital in London - if you want to shout at the tv, that's the one to watch. Almost every episode features a women being induced for convenience (like not even late but live a few hours from the hospital so want baby according to their timetable) and then they wonder why they end up having to do so many csections. I get all ranty talking about that show - my poor DH didn't know what had hit him when he caught me watching it the other day.

 

[Jenniflower]

Sorry to gatecrash the thread. There's obem conversations every week and I've not joined any of yet but you seem like a rational group of people so I hope there's room here for one more!!

I'm actually giving birth at princess Anne so I see the show as good research and it has certainly made me realise that I need to have a clear picture of what I want before I go in. The odd thing is that I've done the Nhs antenatal classes in the local area and the midwives seem to advocate as natural a birth as possible within the boundaries of what each woman personally wants. The show does a very poor job of demonstrating that attitude though. It seems to me as though each week they try and make one woman look bad and silly and another woman look sensible and rational.

I really wish that they would show more births from the midwife run unit but they do tend to prefer the labour ward (for the drama presumably).

Have any of you seen the shows done at Portland hospital in London - if you want to shout at the tv, that's the one to watch. Almost every episode features a women being induced for convenience (like not even late but live a few hours from the hospital so want baby according to their timetable) and then they wonder why they end up having to do so many csections. I get all ranty talking about that show - my poor DH didn't know what had hit him when he caught me watching it the other day.

It's interesting that you talk about your classes advocating a natural birth as that's what my classes were all about as well which seemed really great. They were even quite big advocates for getting up on your feet/knees/squatting to deliver as it works with gravity and the baby doesn't have to go up the hump on your pelvis. The problem I've been hearing is that these great midwives in my local clinic just are NOT the ones in the hospital. Because in this country you have two different types of midwives, the ones in the hospital become so hospitalized, iykwim. They become so rushed, so not every woman is a different case. They've seen so many procedures needing done that they've started think all women need them. And because I'm sure they get crap from TPTB they feel they need to be rushing these women in and out of their beds. There's no individual care like you get with your community midwife who gets to know you and your quirks. Hence why when you go into hospital all that stuff your Comm MW has taught you seems to go out the window. It's a real shame!

I've never seem the other show you're talking about but man I don't even know if I could watch it without a shoe or something ending up in the TV!

 

[PeanutBean]

I'd agree with that jenni and was going to say the same. Our community mws did the classes when I was pregnant with my son and I thought they were very good at both promoting natural birthing and exploring pain relief and interventions pros and cons. Bit as you say they are not the hospital mws who clearly have a very different outlook in the experience of my birth is anything to go by.

 

[special_kala]

According to OBEM's FB there is a hypnobirth on this week

 

[Mervs Mum]

THAT will be worth me breaking my self imposed ban for!

 

[Jenniflower]

According to OBEM's FB there is a hypnobirth on this week

thanks for the heads up!

 

[ellieb31]

Did anyone watch it tonight?

I particularly enjoyed watching the birthing pool/hypnobirthing one. I got my husband to watch it too and it was useful for him to see that spell of 'I can't do it' which a lot of women get and when birth partners need to come into there own. She was up on the midwife unit rather than the labour ward which is where I hope to be as well. I know that the mentality between the labour ward and the community midwives may be quite different but it does seem to me as though things are different on the midwife unit - the ladies rarely labour on their backs and the midwives do seem to encourage them to stay as drug free as possible but maybe I'm seeing what I want to see.