Smoking while pregnant.. is it child abuse?

[Aidan's Mummy]

Like I have said numerous times nothing is black and White and I can provide various examples. I think it's hard to judge someone until you know the full circumstances and until that point no one is in a position to say what is and wasn't isn't abuse until thevfacts are in front of them. x

 

[Lightworker]

I wholeheartedly agree nothing is black and white which is why, thankfully, we are assessing the actual ACT of smoking as opposed to the mental state of the smoker. The actual ACT is (would be) abuse, pure and simple. I dare say even those that have been described as "nasty, evil abusers" all have mental issues and emotional damage, which led to their conduct. I sympathise with them too as that is how they grew up and that is all they know. That does not stop me from referring to their CONDUCT as abuse.

 

[BlackBerry25]

Well anyways, should food be regulated then too? For pregnant women? What about work environments that have toxins? Plenty of food, beauty/bath products, work environments have toxins and carcinogens and other unhealthy ingredients and side effects.

 

[Nibblenic]

In the UK yuor work enviroment is changed is there are any health and safety risks whislt you are pregnant.
SO for example if you were a paramedic you go onto the phones and a desk job at 3/4 months into pregnancy or sooner if you are considered at risk. If there isnt a safe suitable job you are placed on 'garden leave' on full pay until you go on Matleave.

As for food I havent known anyone or seen anyone eating raw fish, or pate or anything else that you are advised against in pregnancy.
Yes some people over eat on the old 'eating for two' thing but your body maybe wanting to gain weight if it doesnt consider it to have enough stores for after birth in a very old throw back to us all living in caves.

 

[PeanutBean]

There are guidelines in the uk but that doesn't mean they are followed. Only looking on this forum shows endless cases of employers flouting the rules.

Well I am a child abuser because I drink caffeinated tea and caffeine has been tentatively linked with birth deformities. Hey ho.

 

[storm4mozza]

i personally feel sad and quite angry when i see pregnant women smoking, the poor LO is stuck in there being fed nicotine. i cant/wont judge anyone on the way they live their lives BUT.

when my dad smokes, its outside in the garden so no one smokes near my LO

 

[BlackBerry25]

I don't follow any food guidelines *shrug*

 

[PeanutBean]

I don't particularly either. I'm veggie though so my food poisoning chances are relatively low anyway.

Just noticed, 2nd tri here you come blackberry, how time flies!

 

[aob1013]

I keep thinking about this thread, and the term abuse.

When i think of abuse, i think intentional malcious hurt. I think Baby P, i think sexual and physical abuse.

I don't think Mum's in pregnancy who smoke are smoking intentionally to be malicious and hurt their baby's, i just think it's a severe addiction, and some Mum's just don't or just cannot give up

I think abuse is an intent to hurt, maliciously.

I really don't think smoking in pregnancy equates to that

I can see where u are coming from, but lets look at the excuse 'addiction'.

Any mother who smokes KNOWS she is harming her unborn child. The child may or may not have long term, life long effects from her smoking. Everyone knows how dangerous smoking is. So does that class it as malicious intent? I believe it does.

Back to 'addiction', a sex offender had a 'addiction' to sex, a serial killer has a 'addiction' to killing. They claim they cant stop. A sex offender often gets rehabilitation for their 'addiction'.

So does addiction make a good enough excuse? I believe it doesnt

People can have an addiction to many things. When that addiction hurts others and they knowingly do it anyway, well what else can it be called?

Just my view.

I definately do not agree that a Mother who smokes is smoking because she actually wants her baby to suffer, she is just very tangled up in her addiction, and unfortunately her baby is suffering.

She doesn't light up that fag thinking 'yes, that's going to hurt my babies lungs, i'm definately going to smoke that, that will definately cause damage, yes!!'. She's addicted. There's no excuse for it. I was able to give up cold turkey and never look back on the day of my BFP, so yes it can be done, but some just aren't able to.

On this one, it's down to personal opinion on the wrongs and rights. I don't believe an extremist view actually helps anyone.

 

[Laura2919]

I don't follow any food guidelines *shrug*

I followed everything and my mum said to me that when she was pregnant with me there was nothing you couldnt eat and she smoked with me. I dont agree with it but I wont call people child abusers because of it.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I keep thinking about this thread, and the term abuse.

When i think of abuse, i think intentional malcious hurt. I think Baby P, i think sexual and physical abuse.

I don't think Mum's in pregnancy who smoke are smoking intentionally to be malicious and hurt their baby's, i just think it's a severe addiction, and some Mum's just don't or just cannot give up

I think abuse is an intent to hurt, maliciously.

I really don't think smoking in pregnancy equates to that

I can see where u are coming from, but lets look at the excuse 'addiction'.

Any mother who smokes KNOWS she is harming her unborn child. The child may or may not have long term, life long effects from her smoking. Everyone knows how dangerous smoking is. So does that class it as malicious intent? I believe it does.

Back to 'addiction', a sex offender had a 'addiction' to sex, a serial killer has a 'addiction' to killing. They claim they cant stop. A sex offender often gets rehabilitation for their 'addiction'.

So does addiction make a good enough excuse? I believe it doesnt

People can have an addiction to many things. When that addiction hurts others and they knowingly do it anyway, well what else can it be called?

Just my view.

I definately do not agree that a Mother who smokes is smoking because she actually wants her baby to suffer, she is just very tangled up in her addiction, and unfortunately her baby is suffering.

She doesn't light up that fag thinking 'yes, that's going to hurt my babies lungs, i'm definately going to smoke that, that will definately cause damage, yes!!'. She's addicted. There's no excuse for it. I was able to give up cold turkey and never look back on the day of my BFP, so yes it can be done, but some just aren't able to.

On this one, it's down to personal opinion on the wrongs and rights. I don't believe an extremist view actually helps anyone.

Of course she wouldnt want her baby to suffer, but she does know that its harmful to her baby, everyone knows the dangers of smoking.

Im sorry if my opinion came across as extremist, im just very passionate about it.

Apologies to anyone who was offended. Re reading my posts i did get a bit carried away

I just want the best for all little bubbas

 

[Lightworker]

I personally am not buying the whole extremism thingy. We go out there signing and ratifying all these treaties and conventions on the rights of the child but when we are faced with an issue so straightforward as pregnant smokers society seems somewhat reluctant to extend the same rights to those children. I cannot work it out. It seems even hypocritical to have all these laws, we may as well just do away with the lot of them. *storms off in righteous indignation* lol - but seriously it just aint right.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I dont think im being extremist either, but just wanted to apologise to anyone who was offended if they thought i was x

 

[BlackBerry25]

The laws are for the child...

The baby is considered a child once it exits the womb.
That's how our society works.

 

[Justagirlxx]

We do not need more laws taking away our freedom. A mothers choice to smoke cigarettes around her child is her choice. Same with smoking during pregnancy. If you want to make it illegal to smoke during pregnancy, imagine how many things you would have to make illegal. Should we make it illegal to eat raw eggs during pregnancy because it may hurt a fetus? A fetus can not have the same rights as a baby who is born because of the fact that abortion is not illegal. If it is legal to kill a fetus it can not be illegal to possibly harm one with cigarette smoke, because that is the biggest contradiction in beliefs that I can ever imagine and contradictions should not exist in the law.

Also, abuse should not be a term used to describe smoking during pregnancy or around a baby. A pregnant woman who lights up a cigarette does not say to herself "I hope this harms my baby". Abuse is intentionally hurting a child. If a mother turns her back for a second and her baby climbs on the table and falls off, hurting himself, that is not abuse because it WAS NOT INTENTIONAL. Abusing a child is intentionally harming a child. Just because a mother knows she may harm her child with cigarette smoke does not mean she wants to or is doing it intentionally.

 

[annawrigley]

We do not need more laws taking away our freedom. A mothers choice to smoke cigarettes around her child is her choice. Same with smoking during pregnancy. If you want to make it illegal to smoke during pregnancy, imagine how many things you would have to make illegal. Should we make it illegal to eat raw eggs during pregnancy because it may hurt a fetus? A fetus can not have the same rights as a baby who is born because of the fact that abortion is not illegal. If it is legal to kill a fetus it can not be illegal to possibly harm one with cigarette smoke, because that is the biggest contradiction in beliefs that I can ever imagine and contradictions should not exist in the law.

Also, abuse should not be a term used to describe smoking during pregnancy or around a baby. A pregnant woman who lights up a cigarette does not say to herself "I hope this harms my baby". Abuse is intentionally hurting a child. If a mother turns her back for a second and her baby climbs on the table and falls off, hurting himself, that is not abuse because it WAS NOT INTENTIONAL. Abusing a child is intentionally harming a child. Just because a mother knows she may harm her child with cigarette smoke does not mean she wants to or is doing it intentionally.

I have been wanting to make this point for a while...

 

[PeanutBean]

Marley and I have both touched on that but of course we can't take that discussion any further on here.

 

[vaniilla]

support is key imo, a mum that smokes and is afraid to ask for help/advice with smoking is worse then a mum that does but actively does something about it, it is an addiction and it is something that has negative affects on mum and baby, the dangers and risks can't be avoided, but what can be avoided is pregnant women that smoke not getting help, reducing the risks is better than judging people and punishing them for something that's too late to suddenly reverse.

Having worked at a law courts I can say that you see some shocking things, I've seen a heavily pregnant women there once being put down for attacking a police officer, being told that her child will also be taken into care as her other 3 had and that due to her heroin use the baby will have some form disablement will be born with an addiction, she didn't bat an eyelid, the only thing she cared about was not being sent down, I think she should have been charged for this also but she wasn't because the baby wasn't born when she was taking it, but it was taken after birth, what can you say to that baby? its a hard line to draw, are some drugs more acceptable then others because they're not illegal?

 

[wishingonastar]

i work in a role that looks at abuse of many different kinds (domestic, emotional, financial, physical, sexual)...it is not correct to say people who abuse do it intentionally...there are many people who subject others to abuse both deliberately and unintentionally, for example some deliberately cause emotional abuse by playing mind games knowing it upsets the person, whilst others cause emotional abuse simply by their lack of understanding of how to behave appropriately or through not realising how it impacts on the other person

i don't have an opinion to share on the actual topic of this debate, but it does bother me that people view abuse as deliberate/intentional and thats not always the case

 

[BlackBerry25]

I def. do not view abuse as intentional. I don't really understand that arguement.

I am more on the side of the fence, of having freedoms as an adult in a civilized nation.

I agree with that point that was just made above!