Smoking while pregnant.. is it child abuse?

[BlackBerry25]

An addiction is hardly an excuse.

There is science backing, that addictions are real, especially to cigarettes.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I never said addictions weren't real but i dont think they are good enough excuse / reason.

If thats the reasoning you want to use then sexual abuse is just an 'ADDICTION' as well and not abuse.

 

[Lightworker]

I was looking at the Children Act and the CPS webpage to see if child abuse has a prescribed mens rea (mental element) and I honestly could not find the requirement for "malice". Unlike with some offences malice has to be present, but with child abuse, causing physical or emotional harm or endangering your child suffices. I am going to go and check again though ....

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I seriously doubt a mother that smokes enjoys or wants to harm their child. Abuse cases I have worked with the abuser WANTED to hurt the child and they enjoyed the fact they were hurting them. The reason I am so against it being called abuse is because I have seen real abuse cases and had to care for children that have been abuse. It's horrific, I have also seen newborns with mothers who have smoked during pregnancy. Having seen them both they are no where near the same and shouldn't be classed as such x

 

[ShanandBoc]

Abuse can have different severities tho. But its all still abuse

Smoking could be described as a physical abuse, as it knowingly harms a child physically. Not all addicts (no matter what they are addicted to), enjoy what they do. Thats why its called an addiction, they feel as tho they cant stop, even if they may want to.... but you always can. It may be extremely difficult but still can be done.

A smoker may not WANT to harm their child, but they do it anyway knowing how bad it is for them, Really then isnt it much the same?

 

[Nibblenic]

Okay theres something I am not getting here. A few people have mentioned coming off anti-depressants when you discovered pregnancy.
Am I right in thinking you come off these Anti-depressants because they are harmful to the baby?

So why come off the antidepressants and not quit smoking? Or why not choose to quit smoking and stay on medication?
If they are both harming your baby? Whas the difference?

 

[Lightworker]

My limited research so far has not found any real requirement for malice. Some jurisdictions leave the scope wide open and just class it as "any nonaccidental harm to the child." Anyway I just think harm is harm and we should call a spade a spade. Sometimes it is a big spade, sometimes a small one, but a spade none the less.

 

[ShanandBoc]

"non accidental harm to a child" = smoking in pregnancy.

This cannot be argued, denied or reasoned.

As Huggermomof2 said a spade is a spade.

x

 

[Lightworker]

Shan I totally agree about abuse having different degrees of severity. I am sure society would feel just as aggrieved at a child stillborn due to pregnancy smoking as they would a child that was beaten to death.

 

[ShanandBoc]

So true.

Damn i told myself to stay out of this debate and here i am again.

I should listen to myself more lol x

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Nibblenic, i was on mood stabilisers and anti-psychotics. The risks are much greater compared to smoking. Plus I wasn't addicted to them and my psychiatrist wouldn't have prescribed them so there was no option to carry on.

Shanandboc, i really don't think smoking in pregnancy can be compared to sexually abusing a child

 

[ShanandBoc]

Boy, i was waiting for that. Please tell where i have compared them? I was merely using it as an example on the reasoning of an addiction not being abuse. I def think it is abuse

I do NOT, and i repeat NOT, think smoking in pregnancy is anything like sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse is one of the most severe forms of abuse and it sickens me.

Why on earth would u think i was comparing them? I said that there are different severities of abuse. Not that sexual abuse and smoking were even near each other on that scale x

Please dont think i think that!!!! xxx

 

[Laura2919]

Boy, i was waiting for that. Please tell where i have compared them? I was merely using it as an example on the reasoning of an addiction not being abuse. I def think it is abuse

I do NOT, and i repeat NOT, think smoking in pregnancy is anything like sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse is one of the most severe forms of abuse and it sickens me.

Why on earth would u think i was comparing them? I said that there are different severities of abuse. Not that sexual abuse and smoking were even near each other on that scale x

Please dont think i think that!!!! xxx

Your still using it as a comparison. Thats they way it comes across to many of us anyway.
Pretty much all the way through you both have judged a mother for smoking yet havent really accepted that there are other issues behind why some smoke.
Its like EVERYONE should give up because you did and cos you could do it EVERYONE can do it.
Im sorry but we are all different and we all have different limits and abilities.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

It just sounded like they were being compared when you said about addiction being an excuse and why is one ok when the other isn't. Was in no way suggesting you think sexual abuse is ok though

I also think it can get quite emotional as, for me, i judge myself all the time for not being able to give up. I fully understand other people judging me too, but not when they appear to think i just didn't care. I did cate and it upset me but i just couldn't stop!

 

[Nibblenic]

Nibblenic, i was on mood stabilisers and anti-psychotics. The risks are much greater compared to smoking. Plus I wasn't addicted to them and my psychiatrist wouldn't have prescribed them so there was no option to carry on.
:

So do you think that if cigerattes werent available to you during pregnancy that you would have also not smoked?

Or do you thinkyou would have gone to extreame means to get hold of cigeretes say buying them illegally

Basically someone else made the decision for you to stop taking your meds. Because it was in the best interests of your unborn child. So you think it would have been helpful to also have been essetially forced into not smoking? Because it was in the best interests of the unborn baby?


Thanks for answering my question by the way

 

[Lightworker]

So true.

Damn i told myself to stay out of this debate and here i am again.

I should listen to myself more lol x

Lol! I told myself exactly the same thing. I felt I had said all I could say but this thread keeps sucking me back in

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Nibblenic, i was on mood stabilisers and anti-psychotics. The risks are much greater compared to smoking. Plus I wasn't addicted to them and my psychiatrist wouldn't have prescribed them so there was no option to carry on.
:

So do you think that if cigerattes werent available to you during pregnancy that you would have also not smoked?

Or do you thinkyou would have gone to extreame means to get hold of cigeretes say buying them illegally

Basically someone else made the decision for you to stop taking your meds. Because it was in the best interests of your unborn child. So you think it would have been helpful to also have been essetially forced into not smoking? Because it was in the best interests of the unborn baby?


Thanks for answering my question by the way

That's a hard question to answer! I'd like to say if i had not been able to buy cigarettes when pregnant that i would have stopped. However i think it is more likely that i would have gotten someone else to buy them for me! It's almost as if the midwife telling me not to try giving up helped me to justify my addiction and mental health problems iyswim. I suppose the thing that sticks in my mind is when i was thinking of ending it all i had a cigarette and then rang for help - if i hadn't done that i don't know what i would have done. It makes it difficult to believe that i would have been ok not smoking those few cigarettes a day

 

[ShanandBoc]

Boy, i was waiting for that. Please tell where i have compared them? I was merely using it as an example on the reasoning of an addiction not being abuse. I def think it is abuse

I do NOT, and i repeat NOT, think smoking in pregnancy is anything like sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse is one of the most severe forms of abuse and it sickens me.

Why on earth would u think i was comparing them? I said that there are different severities of abuse. Not that sexual abuse and smoking were even near each other on that scale x

Please dont think i think that!!!! xxx

Your still using it as a comparison. Thats they way it comes across to many of us anyway.
Pretty much all the way through you both have judged a mother for smoking yet havent really accepted that there are other issues behind why some smoke.
Its like EVERYONE should give up because you did and cos you could do it EVERYONE can do it.
Im sorry but we are all different and we all have different limits and abilities.

Come on, you know im not comparing them! It was merely an example of using the reason of addiction as a reason to keep smoking while pregnant. I quoted AOB's post in which she mentioned sexual abuse and that smoking was an addiction therefore wasnt abuse.

Dont make it out that i came up with it off the top of head as a comparison thats not fair.

Its nothing to do with me giving up at all. Every pregnant woman should give up, not because i did lol, but because of their childs well being!!!!

Have fun!

 

[Laura2919]

Well I know I am not the only one and you said something similar before AOB posted in here.
Its how I see it and I guess so do others. To you everyone should give up regardless of what is happening in their lives. I wonder if you were in their shoes would you be harping on about giving up still..
Please dont say you would because thats something you wouldnt even be able to judge.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Something similar?

I didnt mention sexual abuse once until i quoted AOB's post?? Im confused.....

I mentioned heroin addiction earlier again when the addiction is not abuse comment came up and clearly stated that i was comparing heroin to smoking , it was just the first thing that popped into my head as another addiction