to circumcise or not?

[blutea]

risks in infants are definitely present, but they are minimal
https://www.circinfo.net/risks_of_circumcision.html

And yes, all mothers/fathers should teach their boys to clean their parts... BUT, they should also teach them to clean their rooms and clean up after themselves... I'm sure the successrate for personal hygiene is similar to that of room cleanliness?
And while moms can check behind their children's ears to see if they've washed themselves, I don't know many moms that will be inspecting their children's foreskins

Some interesting data to be found regarding STDs... not just in how many men get them, but also in how many women whose partners are circ'd vs. not...
"Women whose male partner is uncircumcised have been found to exhibit a 5.6-fold increased risk of infection with Chlamydia trachomatis than women whose partner was circumcised [Castellsague et al., 2005]. Thus in this large multi-nation study circumcision reduced the risk 82%. Data were identical for women who had only ever had one sexual partner. The study involved 305 couples in 5 countries from different parts of the world. A prospective study of 5,925 women in Uganda, Zimbabwe and Thailand found no significant difference, however, in risk of Chlamydia or gonorrhoea [Turner et al., 2008]"
Same site as the link above... lots and lots of info there.

Not promoting one side over the other here.. I just hear tons of anti-circ opinions and want to share some pro-circ data I'm finding.

Okay, fair enough. But I think it's very important to remember that routine infant circ is no longer recommended by the AAP or the WHO. So we are putting babies at risk for complications when it really doesn't need to happen in the first place...most of the time.

 

[PrayinForBaby]

what about blow jobs?

 

[Ember]

I need to keep up with this thread better! There are so many posts I want to respond to but my brain can't remember them all at once.

As for blowjobs... sure there are risks to those, too! Might need to make a new thread for those, though!

I'm not as much surprised that this thread has gotten back on topic, as I am that it never started a huge, heated argument like most hard decision topics on here have. I'm very proud of all of us!

Wanted to point out that the risks of complications from circumcision are much higher than the risks of not circumcising. Remember that not all botched circumcisions are documented or even realized. Lots of guys never know that the problems they have with their penises have anything to do with their circumcisions. Most are especially too embarrassed to talk to anyone about them, too. .2% higher chance for penile cancer is a very insignificant amount, and HIV, well, I think that teaching proper hygiene and condom usage should be fine to prevent that. If I was an uncircumcised guy and I got HIV, I wouldn't blame my mom for not circumcising me, I'd blame myself for being an idiot and having unprotected sex. And I'm still not convinced that there isn't some kind of bias in the studies that show the risk of HIV is higher. At one point, it was said that the risk of HIV was lower in uncircumcised men. Medical studies are in no way 100% accurate at any given point in time.

I definitely think the risks of having to have a circumcision later in life, when it is safer and less likely that too much foreskin will be removed and men can take better painkillers and aren't constantly getting their penises covered in poo like babies are during the healing process, increasing the risk of infection, are definitely preferable over the possibility that something will go wrong with the baby's circumcision and can have lifelong repercussions like a disfigured, dismembered, curved, ugly, hairy, or insensitive penis. These things can affect a man's self-confidence, sexual satisfaction, ability to conceive, as well as their partner's. It can also make it painful for the man or his partner to even have sex. I know thinking about your baby boy growing up and having sex isn't really something you want to do, but it's a reality of life, and I'd hate myself for dooming my son to have any of those problems.

The conversation with the mom that the 13 yr old brother walked in on:

The Chlamydia stastics: I think 305 people in 5 countries is not a very significant amount and the results were most likely biased in some way. I used to work for a company that did health surveys and it is true that the greater the sample, the more accurate the results. 305 is a very small number considering we have what like 7.5 billion people in the world now? I also find it questionable since no other study has shown results anywhere near similar.

My hubby read the first 8 pages or so of the thread (I skipped to a few posts after my first one talking about penises I've known in my lifetime, lol) and after being angry with me for saying sex with him was not fulfilling (which I didn't mean the way he took it, of course! And I should point out that he is the only man that has ever given me an orgasm, so he is definitely the best, even though he will probably never read this post, I feel I should at least mention that so no one else will think I meant what he thought I did), he said he didn't really know why he was reading it anyway as he was already totally fine with our decision not to circumcise. I find it a bit disheartening though that the only words he used to describe the circumcision video were "I guess it was kinda gross." I found it heartbreaking and had to leave the room while he watched it.

I've also asked some (four) adult male friends of mine in the past few days what they thought about it, and they've all told me that they think it is a totally unnecessary operation and shouldn't be done to infants. They are all circumcised. I was totally blown away by their responses. No hesitation, either. Complete and utter shock to hear them say that! Has anyone else brought up the subject with any male friends?

 

[blutea]

I need to keep up with this thread better! There are so many posts I want to respond to but my brain can't remember them all at once.

As for blowjobs... sure there are risks to those, too! Might need to make a new thread for those, though!

I'm not as much surprised that this thread has gotten back on topic, as I am that it never started a huge, heated argument like most hard decision topics on here have. I'm very proud of all of us!

Wanted to point out that the risks of complications from circumcision are much higher than the risks of not circumcising. Remember that not all botched circumcisions are documented or even realized. Lots of guys never know that the problems they have with their penises have anything to do with their circumcisions. Most are especially too embarrassed to talk to anyone about them, too. .2% higher chance for penile cancer is a very insignificant amount, and HIV, well, I think that teaching proper hygiene and condom usage should be fine to prevent that. If I was an uncircumcised guy and I got HIV, I wouldn't blame my mom for not circumcising me, I'd blame myself for being an idiot and having unprotected sex. And I'm still not convinced that there isn't some kind of bias in the studies that show the risk of HIV is higher. At one point, it was said that the risk of HIV was lower in uncircumcised men. Medical studies are in no way 100% accurate at any given point in time.

I definitely think the risks of having to have a circumcision later in life, when it is safer and less likely that too much foreskin will be removed and men can take better painkillers and aren't constantly getting their penises covered in poo like babies are during the healing process, increasing the risk of infection, are definitely preferable over the possibility that something will go wrong with the baby's circumcision and can have lifelong repercussions like a disfigured, dismembered, curved, ugly, hairy, or insensitive penis. These things can affect a man's self-confidence, sexual satisfaction, ability to conceive, as well as their partner's. It can also make it painful for the man or his partner to even have sex. I know thinking about your baby boy growing up and having sex isn't really something you want to do, but it's a reality of life, and I'd hate myself for dooming my son to have any of those problems.

The conversation with the mom that the 13 yr old brother walked in on:

The Chlamydia stastics: I think 305 people in 5 countries is not a very significant amount and the results were most likely biased in some way. I used to work for a company that did health surveys and it is true that the greater the sample, the more accurate the results. 305 is a very small number considering we have what like 7.5 billion people in the world now? I also find it questionable since no other study has shown results anywhere near similar.

My hubby read the first 8 pages or so of the thread (I skipped to a few posts after my first one talking about penises I've known in my lifetime, lol) and after being angry with me for saying sex with him was not fulfilling (which I didn't mean the way he took it, of course! And I should point out that he is the only man that has ever given me an orgasm, so he is definitely the best, even though he will probably never read this post, I feel I should at least mention that so no one else will think I meant what he thought I did), he said he didn't really know why he was reading it anyway as he was already totally fine with our decision not to circumcise. I find it a bit disheartening though that the only words he used to describe the circumcision video were "I guess it was kinda gross." I found it heartbreaking and had to leave the room while he watched it.

I've also asked some (four) adult male friends of mine in the past few days what they thought about it, and they've all told me that they think it is a totally unnecessary operation and shouldn't be done to infants. They are all circumcised. I was totally blown away by their responses. No hesitation, either. Complete and utter shock to hear them say that! Has anyone else brought up the subject with any male friends?

I've only brought it up with my husband and he gets defensive, like I'm saying there is something wrong with his penis (he is circ'd).

 

[Ember]

Perhaps instead of talking about it, simply shove him in front of the computer with the video queued up and press play then run from the room and lock him in it?

 

[Rmar]

My brother is circ'd and he got chlamydia. No, he didn't get it because he was circ'd, he got it because he was a dirty person who thought he was too good for a condom because the girl was on the pill.

You have to clean a circ'd penis too. Circumcision is no excuse for not teaching personal hygiene. My DH had no idea how to wash his bits because he was never taught and he kept giving my UTI's after sex up until I got in the shower with him and a washer and showed him how to clean. BIL's life is plagued with UTI's and if I go off what DH knew, I would say that BIL hasn't been taught that you gotta clean. Just imagine the yuckies that go into their urethras after a day of rubbing against their underwear. Females have discharge to keep most yuckies out as well as washing, males have washing and a foreskin.

If a female doesn't wash, things get stuck and its gets really gross down there and I'm almost certain my mother did not inspect my labia to see if I had been washing.

 

[Ember]

My brother is circ'd and he got chlamydia. No, he didn't get it because he was circ'd, he got it because he was a dirty person who thought he was too good for a condom because the girl was on the pill.

You have to clean a circ'd penis too. Circumcision is no excuse for not teaching personal hygiene. My DH had no idea how to wash his bits because he was never taught and he kept giving my UTI's after sex up until I got in the shower with him and a washer and showed him how to clean. BIL's life is plagued with UTI's and if I go off what DH knew, I would say that BIL hasn't been taught that you gotta clean. Just imagine the yuckies that go into their urethras after a day of rubbing against their underwear. Females have discharge to keep most yuckies out as well as washing, males have washing and a foreskin.

If a female doesn't wash, things get stuck and its gets really gross down there and I'm almost certain my mother did not inspect my labia to see if I had been washing.

Just wanted to say I agree with this whole thing, circ'd guys are usually even less thoughtful about washing than uncirc'd because they think they don't need to clean it because their parents never taught them otherwise.

But most especially that last little bit I just have to say

 

[Bmonki]

mentioned circ to DH - he was horrified and grabbed his crotch.

 

[mislaww]

mentioned circ to DH - he was horrified and grabbed his crotch.

I think I'll try the same for my own amusement!

 

[BabyBG]

Sorry to intrude girls as I am still in 1st trimester but I thought it important to comment.

I am an American married to a Brit and I will NOT be having my son circumcised if it is a boy! Americans are the only country that do it as a fad and not just for religious purposes. Am I right in saying that the Jewish are one of the few that do it for religion? (Could be wrong)

Most of the guys I have spoken to over here consider it a bit barbaric.

Keep in mind that if your DH is not and your son is circumcised then he might be a bit confused when he is older because his looks different from Daddy's. Something to think about.

I have heard there is no fact to the hygiene thing and all they have to do is wash it.

I am with SugaBabe, if he wants it done, let him do it when he is older and can make an informed decision for himself. For me, it's no question, NO CUT!

Good Luck!

 

[Bmonki]

mentioned circ to DH - he was horrified and grabbed his crotch.

I think I'll try the same for my own amusement!

I was sat next to him on the sofa and he asked what I was reading...so I told him hehe

Poor bloke wished he never asked

 

[blutea]

Just found this wonderful site!

https://www.luckystiff.org/ Whether you want to help stop circumcision overall or protect a single child, the Intactivîsm page can help, from baby steps for the beginner to novel ideas for the hard-core activist.

 

[blutea]

Great news! My husband and I had the circ discussion and he has agreed to leave our newborn son intact. He said he would prefer our son be circ'd (just like him and our first son) but he knows that I will not allow it. It wasn't an easy discussion but we got it done.

 

[Stash777]

Hi, not expecting yet (still ttc, just wanted a preview of what I can't wait for), but DH and I have already been discussing this. I'm completely against and he's completely for, so we're taking a bit of a break from the discussion as of now. Anyhow, here's a link to some information about the procedure, risks, benefits, the whole shebang!!

https://www.permanente.net/homepage/kaiser/pdf/3558.pdf

 

[BabyRaff]

I've not read all the thread, so what I'm say might have been said lol but I just wanted to add something about circumcision. OH isn't and when I asked him about whether he would want our son to be if we had one he said def not, he reason was that he has been told by alot of people it causes a loss of sensitivity. Now, I don't want to think of the reasons my son wouldn't want that loss, but I understand why my OH wouldn't and I see where he is coming from.
But, on the other had OH has tight foreskin, which means when he is 'hard' the skin doesn't come back from the head, it's just keeps it's hood up, so to speak lol OH says it hurts if it's pulled back to far because it's squeezes but other than that the only problem with it is his embarrassment in front of other girls. I personally wasn't bothered ... obviously, but that thought of my son being embarrassed about anything on his body breaks my heart. OH told me that it isn't rare for the tight skin to happen as he has researched it.
Just thought I'd give you a reason for do and one for don't I am personally not that bothered, it's not really a big thing in england so i'll probably leave it up to OH to decide if we need to
Hope I helped some people x

 

[kiasuten]

I appreciate this being brought up. I hadn't even thought about it... I have two brothers, and my mom made the decision to have them both circumcised when they were born because that was considered the "norm" in her family.

My boyfriend, and most of the men in his family, are not circumcised. I am not bothered by it, and he keeps himself clean. I basically told him that it's his decision whether or not to circumcise the baby if we have a boy. I don't have that equipment, so I don't think it's fair or necessary that I be the one to make the decision.

Basically, he decided that if we have a boy, he will remain uncircumcised just like his father. This way, there are no identity issues when our son learns to use the potty just like Daddy, and his father can teach him to stay hygienic just like he is. If in the future, he wants to be circumcised, that's a decision he can make on his own.

This went into very serious discussion! Good stuff!

 

[midori1999]

I have extremely strong views on circumcision, which I won't voice here, however, there is absolutely no medical reason to carry out routine circumcision and the American Association of Paediatrics have been saying so for over ten years. I suspect that is one of the reasons paediatricians do not carry out circs in the US.

Circumcision is also becoming much less common in the US, with rates currently at around 30% of the population. There are also more childhood deaths from circumcision in the US every year than choking. Without even taking other complicstions into account, that doesn't exactly make it a risk free procedure, does it?

The following link shows one baby after complications (infection). Please be warned, it is very graphic and distressing.

https://www.infocirc.org/fourn.htm

This link shows a video of a circumcision and if you can watch it all thew way through with the sound on you have a stronger stomach than me. (again, very distressing) Admittedly the infant in this video has had no pain relief, but it is recognised that pain reief other than general anaesthetic is largely ineffective for this procedure in any case.

https://www.givingbirthnaturally.com/circumcision-video.html

Of course, some mothers report their baby didn't appear to feel pain throughout the procedure or afterwards, but plenty do and how will you know which one your baby will be until it's too late?

 

[Palestrina]

While I don't have anything against circumcision I also don't really see the point of it. In my own personal opinion a penis without foreskin is ugly and looks naked, it doesn't look natural. TMI but uncirc guys aren't nearly as sensitive down there as natural guys. I don't know if I would want to do that to my child. My hubby isn't circumsized and there are no hygiene problems. We haven't found out the sex of the baby yet but if we have a boy I doubt that this will even come into discussion. Why not leave well enough alone?

There seems to be a population of girls in the US who are like "ewwww gross it's a foreskin" but US standards of beauty are not exactly what I aspire too.

 

[miss cakes]

im from the uk and i dont even know anyone that has had thier baby circumcised my ex was circumcised and he told me it was because it had to be removed as it was too tight and caused him pain tbh i didnt even really notice the differance they look the same when they are hard lol all my other boyfriends havent been circumcised and never any hygene issues like someone else said they should be washing thier willy anyway wether its been chopped or not lol personally i wouldnt get it done unless it caused discomfort like my exes problem i dont see the point x

 

[dan-o]

I personally would not even think about circumcision, unless the foreskin needed to be removed for medical reasons.

The main reason why I wouldn't do it, is because I know would feel resentful as an adult if my parents had cut part of my genitalia off when I was a baby. There is also the issuse of teasing if any other boys spotted it!

It does seem unnesassary to me, but as others have metioned, it is not common in the UK, so perhaps that is why I have this opinion