Dealing with azoospermia?

[arzoo]

Good luck Bubumac for your scan on wednesday. Really happy to know things are progressing well for you.

Thank you Bubumaci for sharing your experience . I did consider if we should go elsewhere but the issue is , DH is being seen by the best urologist in UK, (so we are told) and for a synchronised cycle we have to go private and the urologist does private with this hospital.
You mentioned you have done more than one ICSIs, does it all involve multiple micro tese? If not, what was the procedure for sperm retrieval? Our urologist thinks we should only do one mTese

 

[bubumaci]

Actually, this TESE was the only one that DH has had. When we first went to the clinic in 2011, they wanted to see if they could get any sperm ... and the spermiogrammes were really bad. So he was sent to a Urologist who also had him offer up a sample and checked him from tip to toe. Our clinic had originally said, that the next step was likely a TESE - but the Urologist did not think it was such a good idea, because sometimes DH produced nothing, and sometimes a little (but with very poor quality). He said the risk was too great that nothing would be found. He wanted to try DH taking Tamoxifen first, to see if it made a difference (had had success with a few men who also had non-explained infertility - non-obstructive azoo / serious oligospermia) - so that is what happened. In Spring 2012, DH took Tamoxifen for 6 weeks and ... I cried so hard when I saw the results : 13 Mio sperm and 8% motility! They froze 6 straws.
In June 2012, when they did ER, he offered up a sample and they were able to find enough swimmers to fertilise ... but nothing developed very well even though the fertilisation rates were good. In September 2012, they thawed one straw, because he didn't produce - again good fertilisation results but not great development. Then we switched doctors and saw the new one in November 2012. He suggested taking a break, DH taking Tamoxifen again for 6 weeks and me taking some supplements and trying again in February 2013 cycle. Well I ended up with 23 eggs at ER, so danger of hyper-stim ... and the Tamoxifen did absolutely nothing. They were able to use the fresh sample to fertilise, but the results were back to the bad results. In July 2013 we tried again ... again fresh sample was enough to fertilise ... development was OK (had two lovely blasts at transfer), but it would seem - in hindsight - that they were genetically defective, as it resulted in a chemical. November 2013 - same thing again ... first sample DH provided was not good, so he had a second go and with that they found enough to fertilise - again we suspect that the chemical was due to genetic defects.
So for this try, our doctor wanted to see if we could retrieve better quality sperm directly from the testes. And that is why DH had the TESE done. ... as it happened - they found practically nothing and what they did find looked really bad (so bad morphology) - which is why they thawed two straws from the sample back in Spring 2012 and used that for fertilisation.

I don't know what happened and I am not going to question it - since I am over the moon that we have got our BFP - but it really would seem that we had a freak success in April 2012 with the sample and are really lucky that they froze 6 straws (3 straws left) back then, which - because the TESE didn't work - we used this time round.

Due to the quantity (lack thereof) and quality (lack thereof) of DH we had to do ICSI every time...

 

[deafgal01]

I don't mean to be nosy but what are the signs or risks that points to hyper stim? Just wondering.

I am doing great yesterday and so far today. Still waiting for my cycle this week though. Blah not looking forward to that cuz my mood goes with it when that happens.

 

[bubumaci]

You're not being nosy

Actually - I had / have mild OHSS with this try.
Basically what happens - if you have several follicles - is that your ovaries are worked really hard. Too many can result in hyper stimulation - the signals : swollen ovaries, pain, bloating ... by the time of transfer, my OHSS symptoms had died down, but flared up again two days after transfer (I believe that is when implantation happened), HCG can cause OHSS. My ovaries started feeling really swollen, started hurting and I began getting really bloated. So much so, that I looked around 5 months pregnant! This would tend to get worse towards the evening and I felt very sore. The peak for me was around the second beta, my ovaries really hurt.
At our scan on Monday, the doctor could see that both ovaries are still really big and he could see fluid around the ovaries. If you look at the scan picture on the left below, the bottom right hand corner, you can see some black areas next to the neck of the uterus - that is fluid from the hyper stim.
In fact - I am not one of this people using HPTs before the blood tests (because mine were always so early) - but DH was so concerned about my bloating already in the morning, that I used one (at 11 dpo, 6dp5dt - the morning of the first blood test) - a digital and it came up positive.
It can become very dangerous if the OHSS become moderate / serious - the bloating becomes even more extreme, weight is very rapidly gained (I have kept an eye on the scales and it has stayed within limits) ... the fluid build up can cause breathing difficulties, you can get thrombosis ... if there is too much fluid (and breathing difficulties), then the fluid has to be drained in the hospital.

Perhaps something to make you smile - on the left picture, you can see a black, pea-sized shadow in the uterus ... that is our amniotic cavity. On the picture on the right, you can see it all enlarged, the white blob in the middle is the beginnings of the yolk sac - the embryo We have called it "Pünktchen" - which essentially means sweet little dot

 

[arzoo]

Thank you Bubumaci for sharing the details. Glad you found enough sperms to freeze and use again.

Deafgal : I dont know for sure what the symptoms are , but can share what my friend said she went through . Initially it started with her throwing up for a day, then she noticed she had constipation and started feeling blaoted and gaining weight rapidly (1.5 Kg / day) and also started feeling breathlessness and extreme fatigue. She went to the A &E immediately.

 

[Rainbow123]

Hi ladies! Sorry I've not been on for a little while, been trying to keep it together waiting for our dates by trying to forget (doesn't really work, but always good to try!).

Firstly, MBABY - I'm so so sorry to hear your results. Hugs flying their way across the ocean to you XXXXXXXXXXX

We FINALLY got our phone call today regarding our mTESE dates. The flipping surgeon is just starting up at the hospital and I'm quite sure he's been messing the nurses around who wanted to let those of us on the waiting list know when the operations would be, but it seems they only found out today! We've ended up waiting an extra 3 weeks on top of the original estimate of 1 month until we'd know!!!
ANYHOO, get this for short notice, apparently it's going to be the last week of March! We are both in shock about how soon it is, but really excited to be finally starting the process. We should have a definite date by the end of this week, but the nurse at the IVF clinic just wanted to give us a heads up that this should all be getting started VERY soon!

Arzoo - that's so annoying about the hospital messing you around like that. At least you have the information you need to check everything, but you shouldn't have to feel like you need to check up on the professionals. Grrr.

Bubumaci - I absolutely adore those photos and your nickname for your little dot! Seriously cute!

Love to all XXXXX

 

[arzoo]

Hello Rainbow, I am very glad to hear that the wait is over and you have a date. We also went through the same shock when we got confirmation that the mTese will be in March, that is despite knowing it would be in my march cycle. Wish you all the very best. Hope it works out fine for both of us.

MBABY, how are you ?
How is everyone doing today ?

 

[bubumaci]

Rainbow - that is so exciting that it is all in an couple of weeks! ... Oh girls, Arzoo, Rainbow, my fingers are so tightly crossed for you both... this just has to be a good month!!!

 

[melissaelaine]

Hey all! It's been a while since I've been around. We've been pushing through and keep hoping that things will move along. DH has been on clomid since December to try to get his testosterone up, which will hopefully increase his sperm count. While his testosterone is up, his sperm count hasn't improved much. But, he has some, which is good. At his most recent appointment, he had 14k with 27% mobility. Based on those numbers, the doctor still recommended doing tese. He goes again in 2 weeks for another SA, then 2 weeks after that for an appointment with the doctor. We're aiming to start our cycle in April.

For those who have done tese, have you all done it the day of your egg retrieval or have you done it in advance and frozen the sperm? I think we would do it the same day, from what I have gathered.

Good luck to everyone!

 

[bubumaci]

Hi Melissa
Both are possibilities - the one time my DH had a TESE done (this last try), it was done on the same day as my ER (however they found nothing that they could use, so frozen sperm was thawed for the fertilisation).
But I do believe others have had sperm retrieved through TESE frozen and then thawed for ER at a later time ...

Wishing you all the best! 27% motility is already a great number! I hope that the SA in two weeks gives you even better results

 

[rdleela]

Rainbow, yay!!!!! It's FINALLY getting started for you!!!

 

[MBABY2014]

Just wanted to check in and say hi

Hope everyone is doing well...

Xoxo

 

[deafgal01]

Doing fine over here. Had a date with husband last Friday and omg I cannot remember the last time when I did that without talkin about our infertility journey or babies. It was really nice! My mood is better lately too- I feel more me if that makes any sense for the first time since being on fertility drugs for that one cycle. What a mess!

I gave up trying to decide if my period is back to normal or not. It still doing the same thing since the cycle after these drugs which is med bleed one day, light bleed second day, none or spotting the rest of two days.

 

[gem10]

At a stand still here: ( How are you holding up MBaby? Olive?

 

[bubumaci]

What are your next steps Gem?

 

[gem10]

We are waiting until the summer. Urologist said we needed to wait 6 months to do Tese again. In the meantime, hubby has appointment with a infertility specialist in Chinese medicine this week. Hopefully he will start herbs next week. I feel useless. I am still eating healthy but I have welcomed caffeine and alcohol (in moderation) back in my life. Feel a little guilty, but I need to atay sane until the end of this school year. Trying to live a "normal" life for the next fee months an not obsess over TTC if that makes sense.

 

[arzoo]

Good luck Gem.

Bubumaci how are you doing.

I went for my scan this morning. Still we are no closer to knowing the MTese date. It could be this Saturday or Monday. Follicles growth is slow. Very nervous. Can't even think about how to deal with things if things are not positive.

 

[bubumaci]

I think it is really important to try to live normally, Gem. This journey can so easily take over our lives and the little, normal things in life are important!

Arzoo - that is so close! How exciting. Please try to think positively - negative thoughts and worrying don't do any good ... be positive, with the knowledge, that you can deal with things if they do go pear-shaped - but that you will think about it and deal with it then.

I am doing OK thank you. Had another scan this morning and were thrilled to see that a little blob was pulsating away, its heartbeat at 118bpm, measuring 4,3mm long Am released from the clinic now (which made me kind of sad, considering the long journey we have had - I hugged our doctor) and have to make "normal" appointments

 

[arzoo]

Bubumaci, aw.... those scans look cute. I can picture you hugging the doctor

Thank youi for the words of encouragement. I am trying my best to remain positive and even got a compliment from DH for that last night. He said he expected me to be really difficult to handle with the hormones but said I was much better than I am normally . Poor guy. This morning after the scan as I was walking back to my office (yes I am lucky that there is a centre just 10 minutes walk from work, so makes it easier to go for scans without taking time off work and disruption to work) I walked past 4 pregnant women and I was almost in tears by the time I reached my office. But this time I reminded myself , who knows what trouble each one had to go through to get there.

 

[bubumaci]

Interesting, isn't it ... when we struggle so hard for a baby, we don't take it for granted and I found myself thinking the same way... Originally hurting each time I saw a lovely swollen pregnant belly to thinking - I wonder, did they have to struggle like we are struggling?

DH and other people have also always said, what it something goes wrong, if it doesn't work, if there's no heartbeat etc. etc. and I just say, I only want positive thoughts and positive feelings - I don't want anything negative coming my way. I am well aware that nothing is guaranteed, that things can go wrong ... and I will just deal with them if they should happen. Until then, I want to be happy and enjoy this!

BTW - I really would recommend that hypnotherapy site - it does wonders for your state of mind (I used the IVF-Companion until last week Monday, when we saw the gestational track and then switched to the Pregnancy Relaxation) ... I find it helps me in all sorts of situations

https://www.natalhypnotherapy.co.uk/6.html