Dealing with azoospermia?

[silverbell]

I can't believe I let my hopes run high again. Got news from the dr. that bloods indicated that it was in fact testicular. Testosterone was low and FSH was high, so that's that. I'm out. I can't afford the next step so I am doomed to infinate childless hell. I'm so hurt, I can't stop crying and hubby is blaming himself. I just don't understand. Dr. wants us to come Tues to discuss options, but what is the point? Another bill to have to pay? I'm over it. I'm soooooo over it.

snd80 I'm so sorry you're feeling this way.

I don't really understand though? Low testosterone and high FSH is quite a normal result for an azoospermic man. My husband has the same results. In fact, Mr R said that a high FSH simply shows that the body has recognised a problem and is trying to rectify it, which he said is always encouraging. These results show testicular failure, but tesicular failure doesn't mean no sperm at all. The only real way of knowing for sure is to have the biopsy/TESE. No one result or set of results can say for sure if a man is producing sperm or not.

I have absolutely no idea about the US healthcare system. When you say you can't afford the next step, what would this be exactly? The testicular biopsy?

I'm sorry you're feeling so incredibly low and I really hope you're wrong about the 2 of you being childless forever. There are so many ladies going through the same thing with a family of their own, with so many different journeys to get that final outcome.

 

[snd80]

Thank you SB, but what I mean is I know the next step will be the TESE and ICSI/IVF, to which we have no insurance, divorced b/c of issues due to his Kidney Failure insurances, and no judge will dare let us/me adopt, which I don't want in the first place. Call me selfish, but I just want my OWN child. Is that too much to ask for?! I'm just so mad for that dr. giving me false hope! Like "oh, this is gonna be a easy fix". I should have known better. Nothing in my life has ever been easy, so I am mad at myself as well for believing. At one time I was ready for going for donor, but after this it is like to what avail? Will hubby resent it? Will it be the end to our "marriage"? Then there again is the money factor. My aunt/2nd mother said she would pay for it, but she shouldn't have to! This shouldn't even be an issue! Punish those who DON'T deserve to me mothers! Why give me this STRONG desire for a child to then be like "nah". How effing cruel. Right now I am just mad at the world, GOD especially, and everyone in my path. I just feel like going home and downing my whole bottle of xanex right now. Tomorrow might be different, but I highly doubt it... I feel like I have lost the child I have wanted so bad but never had.

 

[silverbell]

snd, I am so sorry I really am

Please don't do anything silly. Take a good look around you and try to realise how many people's lives are touched by you. I bet there are a great deal, as you seem to be a very sensitive and caring person.

I'm so sorry about the doctor giving you false hope.

I understandly ENTIRELY what you mean when you say, "I just want my OWN child. Is that too much to ask for?!" That's precisely how I feel and I'm pretty certain that's how all of us here have felt at one point or another. It seems terribly unfair that us couples who really want a child more than anything are being denied the chance through no fault of our own and by something that is beyond our control. There is absolutely nothing fair about azoospermia. Period.

You're not alone and I only wish I could give you a big hug right now. Please speak openly to your partner. It will help to get all of this off your chest. I don't know what I would have done without my husband's support, you ladies on here and counselling.

I hope you're feeling better soon, snd.

 

[Sar187]

snd-There are some options to look into in order to afford the next step/steps. If you have any insurance at all, you might be able to get part of TESE covered. There are also grants that you can apply for here in the US that are specifically geared toward people with no insurance. Another place to check is fertilitylifelines.com. They have a lot of good information about both questions to ask and you can apply for help in paying for your infertility costs. There are also a lot of companies that are geared toward financing IVF and related medical procedures for a fairly low rate somewhere around 8.5%. I can't think of the examples off the top of my head but if you would like them I can get you the info.

Another thing would be to consider adopting an embryo. I know this isn't really what you want but if you said no judge would consider you to adopt a child. An embryo adoption is not as rigorous a process as a child adoption nor is it as expensive and in the US there are a lot of fertility clinics starting to offer this option as a lot of parents who have ended up with many frozen embryos are deciding they want to donate their embryos after they finish creating their own family.

Don't give up hope though. If I have learned anything from infertility it is that I am stronger than I ever thought I was. That I will fight for my children even if they don't exist yet. Infertility is an awful thing but the more we fight the better it will be for women going through this in the future.

Hugs to you!

 

[silverbell]

snd-There are some options to look into in order to afford the next step/steps. If you have any insurance at all, you might be able to get part of TESE covered. There are also grants that you can apply for here in the US that are specifically geared toward people with no insurance. Another place to check is fertilitylifelines.com. They have a lot of good information about both questions to ask and you can apply for help in paying for your infertility costs. There are also a lot of companies that are geared toward financing IVF and related medical procedures for a fairly low rate somewhere around 8.5%. I can't think of the examples off the top of my head but if you would like them I can get you the info.

Another thing would be to consider adopting an embryo. I know this isn't really what you want but if you said no judge would consider you to adopt a child. An embryo adoption is not as rigorous a process as a child adoption nor is it as expensive and in the US there are a lot of fertility clinics starting to offer this option as a lot of parents who have ended up with many frozen embryos are deciding they want to donate their embryos after they finish creating their own family.

Don't give up hope though. If I have learned anything from infertility it is that I am stronger than I ever thought I was. That I will fight for my children even if they don't exist yet. Infertility is an awful thing but the more we fight the better it will be for women going through this in the future.

Hugs to you!

Lots of things to think about from Sar's post here, snd.

I also fully agree with the last paragraph. All of us azoo couples are incredibly strong. I would imagine there are many couples that wouldn't stay together with all this going on and it's testament to our strength of character and the strength of our relationships with our partners that we're battling on through and still aiming and hoping for that dream of a family.

 

[KB38]

snd, I am so very sorry to read your news and of how you're feeling. My heart is aching for you.

I agree entirely with what Silverbell and Sar187 have said.

I also wanted to add that whilst it is perfectly normal and really important to grieve (like you are), it is really important that you always remember you are NOT alone. In fact, you are far from alone. For starters, it sounds like you have a wonderfully generous aunt and of course, all of us who know exactly what it feels like to learn of an azoo diagnosis and to grieve for the children we can't have "normally".

Take one step at a time and don't get too far ahead of yourself with worrying about your marriage or donor sperm or anything else that you might be thinking. It is impossible to make any rational decisions when you're feeling the way that you are now so don't even try.

Have a think about something you loved to do during a happier time in your life and do it, either alone or with your DH. If you can't think of anything, then you can borrow mine. Find a swing in a park and see how high you can go before you jump off (I'm embarrassed to say I was too scared to jump so I had to slow right down and step off)!

 

[KB38]

Wibble, I've just read your post from earlier in the week too.

Having been in your position only a few months ago, I know that nothing anyone can say will make you feel better.

I'm so pleased to read that you and your DH have made a decision to use donor sperm and hope you don't have to wait too long to get things moving!

 

[Deb111]

Gosh, I've missed a lot!

Snd - I am SO sorry you're feeling so low right now The other girls are right - we've all been through these feelings. The other girls have summed it all up perfectly.

When you get 'yet another' piece of bad news, your world falls apart yet again and it feels so overwhelming, but somehow, the body must have something that kicks in to deal with the shock, because we somehow manage to drag ourselves back up and start to focus on the next tiny step.

SB is right - your dh's blood results do indicate testicular failure and I'm sure I've posted a link somewhere in this thread before - there is no way of knowing how much of the testes are failing. There is no way of knowing if parts of the testes are still making sperm.

Like SB, I know nothing about the US medical system, but if you are saying TESE is no an option, DEFINITELY talk to the specialist about tamoxifen or arimadex.

I am another one whose hubby has raised FSH and low testosterone and he has been prescribed these and his blood results have improved greatly.

His testoserone has gone from 8 up to 13 and the purpose of the meds is actually to drive the FSH higher, which it has done agreat job of.

At his last SA, there were still no sperm, but he hadn't been on them for the full 3 months at that point. It's looking like he'll still need the microTESE but we're told it can return sperm to the ejaculate.

As for cost - the tamoxifen cost is £9.93 for a 3 months supply!!! and when he switched to the arimadex, it was just under £30 for 2 months!

What were your dh's testosterone and FSH levels?

I really hope you are starting to feel a little more positive and please feel free to come on here and rant as much as you like - we've all been there xx

 

[snd80]

First off I want to thank each of you for your thoughts and comments!

I knew this was destined to be a bad week. Tues my ex-BF had her baby and it has been a struggle since then, then all this shit happened Thurs as I was walking out the door from work. Today is a little better, but I am on my xanex though, so that might have something to do with it. LOL! Plus I got scolded at work this morning for being such a crying lump yesterday and was told to come back Mon with a better attitude. WTF do they expect?! Like I have told all of them, until you've been there, you have NO idea! Plus I am the only girl here, so what do you expect?! Men are made of steel, and assholes...

Hubby is being so supportave about all of this. He keeps blaming himself, but I told him I think of him as a victim as I am in this. He said we would go to the appt. Tues to see what the dr. had to say and we would go from there. (And I will ask about those meds Deb! Thanks!!!!)

Here in BFE Mississippi, there aren't many choices for places to go for IUI w/ donor or even IVF but Jackson, which is about 5 hours from us. There are programs offered in Louisiana and Alabama for egg donor trade outs for IVF, but you have to be "tax paying residents" to be elligable. BOOOOO! I would do it in a HEARTBEAT if it meant helping someout out like I need helping out right now!!!

Sar, if you happen to run up on any of those loan places, please let me know! I found the Springstone Patient Financing one, but I think you have to have a dr. that participates in the program b/c they pay the dr. directly. IDK!

So if I can remember right, his Testosterone was 192 and FSH was 15.1? I have the crappy letter they sent instead of calling me like they PROMISED! I'll double check when I get home. IDK if I really need to be present at the appt. for fear of going off on him for being so insensitave, but hubby is a forgetful one about important dr. related issues (a nightmare when it comes to his dialysis stuff!), so I guess I will have to go...

Sorry for a life story, but really wanted to let you girls know again that I love you all w/out even "knowing" you and am so thankful to have found ya'll!!!!

 

[Deb111]

Plus I got scolded at work this morning for being such a crying lump yesterday and was told to come back Mon with a better attitude. WTF do they expect?! Like I have told all of them, until you've been there, you have NO idea! Plus I am the only girl here, so what do you expect?! Men are made of steel, and assholes...

So if I can remember right, his Testosterone was 192 and FSH was 15.1? I have the crappy letter they sent instead of calling me like they PROMISED! I'll double check when I get home.

Sorry for a life story, but really wanted to let you girls know again that I love you all w/out even "knowing" you and am so thankful to have found ya'll!!!!

Being spoken to like that at work in unacceptable whether or not they know what you're going through. If it continues I would put a complaint in!

If the FSH is measured in the same units as in the UK, that sounds very positive. That is similar to my hubby's and the specialist said it was very promising because it meant his body had recognised there was a problem, but still had plenty of scope to be pushed much higher to drive production even further.

I will be interested to see what the results are when you double check and what units they are measured in.

So glad you have found this group helpful and supportive. I guess when we try to find small positives in this journey, one of mine is definitely the wonderful support I've found on here and the sharing of information and of course, the wonderful friends I have made xx

 

[snd80]

Again, many, MANY thanks to Sar, KB, SB and Deb! I wish we could all meet and have a good pity-party cry together... ha! I do not have internet at home so I will bring the lab results and post them Mon. Deb. As far as work, I work for a small family owned furniture store doing the book keeping and was scolded by the owner, so no one to report to! LOL! He's a grumpy old man anyways, so whatever! He'll get over it!

Hope everyone has a great weekend and sorry for taking the "spotlight" away from those with great things rolling along! You all deserve them! and lots o' love!!!!!!!

 

[Deb111]

Hoped I might catch you before you finished for the day at work. Anyway, I paid a visit to my dear friend Dr Google and it looks like your dh's testosterone level would be measured in ng/dL and in the uk it is measured in nmol/L. If so 192 in the US would translate to about 6.6 in the UK. My hubby's results varied between 5.8 and 8ish before the tamoxifen and is now 13.4 ish (converts to about 385 in US scale) and could be even higher now we're past the 3 month mark.

Definitely push it with the specialist. Might even be worth you putting in a call to dr turek in the US. He will give you a free 10 minute consultation about your dh's results etc and it will give you some things to discuss at the specialist appt. Just email his secretary - would be worth a second opinion even if you can't sort it before Tuesday

https://www.theturekclinic.com/male-fertility-consultation.html

 

[silverbell]

snd, don't worry about 'taking the spotlight away' from others. This thread is for all of us - at good times and bad - and you're free to post what you want.

I like Deb's suggestions

 

[Pamplemousse]

Snd80,

I am so sorry to hear you are having a rough time at the moment. It seems you been given some great advice from Deb111 and others and I hope it has helped.

I think I speak for everyone else when I say that you must never feel you are "taking the spotlight". We all come to the site because it is the only place we know our feelings can really be understood. I am new to all this, so my advise is no way as experienced as Deb111, but I do send lots of hugs!!!

AFM: Had a really weepy moment on Friday. A baby of my own seems so far away and I am so angy that all the excitement of having a baby has been taking away from me. So cue late night call to my mum and 40mins of tears.

DH and I have been discussing adoption. We are so ready to try ICIS and anything that can help us have a biological baby but we feel that if we prepare ourselves for the adoption route then if it does come to that we are a step closer to the mental preparation. Again, it brings me to tears. Over the weekend I was thinking about how as a little girl I loved nothing more than pushing my dolly's pram around my house, and being"mum" to my baby dolls, and I never imagined in a million years that not being a mum was something I would have to even think about.

So, enough of my woeful rants!! Any good news out there to keep us smiling? I would love for all of us get some goo news that takes us into 2012!!!


Wibble Wobble: How are you doing? I am sending you big hugs!!

Sar? How are things for you also?

 

[Deb111]

Would you consider a donor embryo Pamplemousse? I think this is something we would consider IF we have to. For us it would be preferable to adopting expecially as it would be very unlikely we'd get a baby or even a toddler as we are older.

 

[wibble wobble]

Hi pamplemouse I'm doing ok thanks, just want a letter to turn up to say when things will start happening again for us. I hate all the waiting around with nothing happening.

I've spoken to a girl who had a donor ivf at my clinic and she's told me she had to wait about a month for the counselling and not very long after for everything else. So if our case is similar then at least it's not a huge wait, still I just need to have a letter with an appointment date... just for peace of mind that I haven't been forgotten about....

Deb111 I don't think embryo adoption is available in the UK yet. People I've spoken to that have had multiple frosties available after IVF either have to donate them to research or have them destroyed (it's a stupid rule, you can donate eggs and sperm but not combined)

SND Hope you are feeling a little better x

 

[Deb111]

Deb111 I don't think embryo adoption is available in the UK yet. People I've spoken to that have had multiple frosties available after IVF either have to donate them to research or have them destroyed (it's a stupid rule, you can donate eggs and sperm but not combined)

I've seen statistics on the HFEA website about treatment cycles with donor embryos. Not sure if it's available on the NHS or widely available, but I assume that info on the HFEA site means you can do it in the UK - here's hoping it's at least an option xx

EDIT - In fact I've just searched the HFEA website and according to their search criteria MFS where I am having my scans do it

 

[MissAma]

Wibble Wobble - you two are very strong and will only grow stronger from this. I've been on this merry-go-round along with others suffering from Male Infertility for 4 years now and have seen a good many couples who did dICSI and I just wanted to re-re-re-assure you that it is no different, not one even remembers to mention it was a donor cycle when they talk about their journey and on the plus side? You may go again fast and be a mommy by mid next year!

Silverbell - when will you be having treatment again?

Snd80 -This road is not easy for anyone but you are doing well regrouping and looking into embryo adoption is indeed a great idea, it is our backup plan too.

I started a thread for those of us who will have treatment in the first part of 2012 and it was surprising how many of the new ladies going in for the first IVF are Male Factor

Sar - Are you going to be a good girl and test on you should or sneak a few peeks in earlier? I can never make it to TD, I don't even try, I test since the ovulation inducer all the way till either AF comes or -in Dara's case- till the tests faded because I was now 7 weeks along or such -

Deb - Excited? Only two more sleeps till the scan! How many are you hoping for?

Pampelmousse - Good idea, set your sights for the longer goal and then be pleasantly surprised if things work out sooner.

AFM - I am counting down the days till we can go again but I forget that there is no telling how many times we will have to try before we get pregnant. (Not that we have the resources to try forever, we can only afford a 3-tries-pack on our employer's tax/insurance system)

 

[Sar187]

SND-I know I have come across another one other than springstone financial but I can't find where I saw it right now. It wouldn't hurt to talk to the clinic you would be going to and see if they have any financial options or can recommend anything. Personally DH and I ended up taking out a line of credit. Our interest rate is 8.9% about the same as most medical financing companies can give, it is variable but it also has a cap. And as everyone else has said this is what this board is for you are not taking the spotlight away from anyone!

MissAma-I am going to try to wait to test but I don't know if I can make it. The Trigger shot(ovulation inducer) should be officially out of my system tomorrow. I was going to try to wait until Monday morning and test right before my blood draw but I may test Thursday or Friday. A couple of other women I have been chatting with that also did an october cycle tested 4dp5dt and 5dp5dt and got positives that keep getting darker. Thursday would be 7dp3dt, I am oh so tempted lol.

Pamplemousse-I'm doing pretty good, my boobs are incredibly sore, I think from the progesterone. Just trying to keep myself busy until I can test .

 

[silverbell]

Silverbell - when will you be having treatment again?

AFM - I am counting down the days till we can go again but I forget that there is no telling how many times we will have to try before we get pregnant. (Not that we have the resources to try forever, we can only afford a 3-tries-pack on our employer's tax/insurance system)

DH has to have his microTESE first and that's due around January. I'm currently waiting to have an HSG scan and some bloods to check that I'm doing OK prior to having ICSI (if sperm are found) or DIUI (if no sperm found). So still in limbo land right now.

I know what you mean about the resources. This infertility lark sure is expensive. It seems so unfair that others have it so easy.