Dealing with azoospermia?

[MissAma]

Sar - I've sent you a PM

Silverbell - as I said there is a thread for us have-to-wait-long-ers here if you wanted company:

https://www.babyandbump.com/assisted-conception/756099-ivf-icsi-2012-luckies-group.html

 

[snd80]

Hoped I might catch you before you finished for the day at work. Anyway, I paid a visit to my dear friend Dr Google and it looks like your dh's testosterone level would be measured in ng/dL and in the uk it is measured in nmol/L. If so 192 in the US would translate to about 6.6 in the UK. My hubby's results varied between 5.8 and 8ish before the tamoxifen and is now 13.4 ish (converts to about 385 in US scale) and could be even higher now we're past the 3 month mark.

Definitely push it with the specialist. Might even be worth you putting in a call to dr turek in the US. He will give you a free 10 minute consultation about your dh's results etc and it will give you some things to discuss at the specialist appt. Just email his secretary - would be worth a second opinion even if you can't sort it before Tuesday

https://www.theturekclinic.com/male-fertility-consultation.html

Ok, here's what they say...

FSH= 15.1 (High) Normal Range 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Prolactin= 8.9 Normal Range 4.0-15.2 ng/mL (what is Prolactin anyway?)
Testosterone= 194 (Low) Normal Range in Males 20-49 yo 262-1593 ng/dl

Thanks for the above site too... will check into this! "Free" is my kind of talk! No pun intended... =)

 

[snd80]

Hope everyone had a good weekend! Mine was a little better. Splurged on food and mixed drinks all weekend, which shot my diet to shit, but starting the gym again today after work. Gotta keep on rolling for my next step. I'm not gonna put too much into "fixing" hubby's problems, thinking more of what is financially sound for us. The IVF clinic here in MS (Jackson) ivfmississippi.com is actually more reasonable than I first thought! Which helped my feelings ALOT! IVF w/ sperm retrieval somewhere along the lines of $9000 and they do have financing! IUI procedure is only $350, not including the cost of donor sperm w/ their shipping and such, but I figure all together with everything (sperm, travel and time off work) about $2000 per try? Very fesable for us. Sometimes I think it would be cheaper to find a college student and offer to buy him "off"! Lol! How would you even start that conversation? Hubby said he should just let me go off one weekend and "moonlight". At least he has some sense of humor about all this. I couldn't help but think of that old Heart song/video of "All I wanna do" from the 80s/90s. Who remembers that one?! Don't think I haven't thought about it either!

 

[silverbell]

Ok, here's what they say...

FSH= 15.1 (High) Normal Range 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Prolactin= 8.9 Normal Range 4.0-15.2 ng/mL (what is Prolactin anyway?)
Testosterone= 194 (Low) Normal Range in Males 20-49 yo 262-1593 ng/dl

Thanks for the above site too... will check into this! "Free" is my kind of talk! No pun intended... =)

If it helps, here are my DH's most recent results:

FSH = 47.8 IU/L
Prolactin = 217 mIU/mL (normal 26 to 280) (can't find how to convert this to ng/mL)
Testosterone = 239 (converted from 8.3 nmol/L)

I am obviously no expert, but from what I understand the reason my DH hasn't been given any medication to try to improve these results are because:

a) Although the Testosterone is low, it isn't scarily low.
b) The very high FSH suggests his body already knows there's something wrong and is trying to fix it.

On looking at your husband's results, although the FSH is high it isn't that high and I wonder if they might decide to put him on some drugs to try to improve this (and thereby increase any sperm production that might be happening) prior to anything else? Deb knows a lot more than I do about this and I'm sure will be able to advise further.

I'm so pleased you've had a better weekend

 

[Deb111]

Deb - Excited? Only two more sleeps till the scan! How many are you hoping for?

Very excited Trying not to get my hopes up too much about a particular number. My AMH is very low and I only had 5 follicles last cycle when they scanned so anything more than that will be good I guess

 

[Deb111]

Snd - Glad your weekend improved and that options are opening up. Those results definitely seem similar to my hubby's so I would definitely ask about the tamoxifen / arimadex and don't let them fob you off without a proper discussion or reason why it wouldn't help. It may be that there are other reasons why it wouldn't be suitable for your dh, but I asked the NHS to put hubby on this 18 months ago and they said it wasn't used for men and they wouldn't prescribe it. Forgetting what it's done for his hormone levels; he was a different man on the tamoxifen - more energy, better mood, better outlook on life and the NHS refused. It took 18 months and a private specialist to get him on the right meds.

Don't worry too much about the prolactin as your dh's is within normal range, but to cut a long story short ... if it was too high ...

"What Does Prolactin Do?
In women, the role of prolactin is fairly clear: it is released in order to stimulate milk production during pregnancy. Prolactin causes the mammary glands in a woman’s breasts to enlarge, and upon birth, prolactin encourages the formation of milk. Unfortunately, it is unclear what role prolactin plays in men. However, it is evident that prolactin and infertility are linked.

Effects on Male Fertility
Like prolactin infertility in women, prolactin can also affect male fertility. In fact, if you have too much prolactin in your blood stream it can cause you to become infertile. High prolactin levels have an adverse affect on the function of your testicles, and can cause decreased testosterone levels or abnormal sperm. This can cause serious problems when it comes time to conceive. Normal prolactin levels in men are typically less than 15 ng/mL. Elevated prolactin may indicate a condition called hyperprolactinemia, and this could account for your fertility difficulties.

Hyperprolactinemia
You can be diagnosed with hyperprolactinemia when you have more than 15 ng/mL of prolactin in your bloodstream. Symptoms of excess prolactin are often internal and difficult to see. Symptoms can include:

decreased sperm count
hypogonadism (in which your testes do not produce the right amounts of testosterone)
decreased sex drive
impotence

 

[Deb111]

Oh snd - just to add - DON'T let them put your dh on any testpsterone replacement yet - it will trick his body into thinking things are fine and he will stop making the small amounts of sperm that he may be at the moment

 

[snd80]

I did google "prolactin" and remembered the urilogist talking about the "boss" (the brain), so then it all came back to me. Duh! I had a blonde moment... sorry!

I also looked up those two meds you were talking about and was wondering about them both being for breast cancer and was like ? But I see what you mean now. The only deal w/ my hubby is that he is on dialysis and on a ton of meds like blood pressure meds and heart meds, and has to take blood thinner shots the days of his treatments, so those might be iffy according to webmd's interactions, but I will still ask about them.

I have decided to be very cut and dry w/ doc tomorrow, telling him no more false hopes, that I need to know for sure. No "probably's" like he worte in his crappy mailed results, and NO MORE he-hawing around just to get paid from Medicare. I can't handle another low ball again, and if he doesn't have the experience or knowledge of all this, then refer us to Dr. Whitehead in Tupelo. I found him from the fertilitylifelines.com that Sar recommended and he is a male infertility specialist. Wish I would have found him before this one. But what can you do?

Gosh, we will ALL just about be urilogists ourselves by the time all this is over for us! haha! Thanks again girls!

 

[Deb111]

I know the whole breast cancer drug thing is weird but basically it works by blocking the oestrogen or something - I forget now - but the principal of how it deals with breast cancer is the same as how it deals with testosterone - stops it being converted to oestrogen if I remember rightly

In fact, when I got hubby's prescription dispensed, the pharamcist has 'a quiet word' to make sure the dr hadn't made an error

 

[silverbell]

I have decided to be very cut and dry w/ doc tomorrow, telling him no more false hopes, that I need to know for sure. No "probably's" like he worte in his crappy mailed results, and NO MORE he-hawing around just to get paid from Medicare. I can't handle another low ball again, and if he doesn't have the experience or knowledge of all this, then refer us to Dr. Whitehead in Tupelo. I found him from the fertilitylifelines.com that Sar recommended and he is a male infertility specialist. Wish I would have found him before this one. But what can you do?

Gosh, we will ALL just about be urilogists ourselves by the time all this is over for us! haha! Thanks again girls!

Sounds like a great plan and I'm glad you've got the name of an expert. I honestly think with this particular diagnosis (azoo), it's worth getting the opinion of an absolute expert. There are so many out there who just haven't got a clue and it can be very upsetting and disheartening, which is just what you don't need.

You're right about us being Urologists before this is all over! Sometimes it's freaky knowing more than the GP or local Urologists about these matters

 

[wibble wobble]

It's actually hit me now that I'll never have hubby's baby for the past few days I've been fighting the feelings inside me......

I was holding out so much hope on the tese I was convinced it was going to work they gave us a 40% chance thats high in my book. I even talked myself into believing it would work because when doctors diagnosed my dad with cancer they gave him 40% chance of survival and against the odds he went on to live another 3 years..

2 months ago I was so sure that if we had to use donor sperm it wouldn't be an issue,we've had months to get used to the idea right??? but now that it's the only way I'm so confused about how I really feel.... It's like I never really thought before that it was going to be a real option because the tese was going to find sperm and that would be the end of it theres so many strange things I'm thinking now.... like basically I'm cheating on hubby.....

My manager actually pulled me out of work,she could see that I'm 'bothered' by something, I've been close to tears on and off all day in work. She took me for coffee after the 4pm meeting. I'd told her ages ago about what was happening with my fertility journey,so she had an idea of what was wrong... don't think she was quite expecting what I told her...she was nearly in tears herself,when I said I was never having hubby's baby,she pointed out that it's me that seems to have hit a brick wall.. I'm thinking too much about the dna link,where as hubby came from a messed up family his dad walked when he was 2 his mum re-married and his brothers dad later commit suicide,she re-married again and his sisters dad is the man they all call dad (all 3 are half brother and sister) so not much dna 'the same' in them but as a family close as anything so to him dna isn't really a big issue (he's still gutted he can't have his own kids) he says my life was sheltered I came from the average family of 2.4 children when my parents married they married for life so I don't really know diversity and that's why I'm finding it more difficult to accept.

I feel really bad for hubby his family line ends with him,but he isn't as bothered as me am I just over thinking things?

I really want a baby,but part of me is scared that hubby wont love me as much after I do.

So much I'm thinking about........ it's really winding me up

 

[silverbell]

Aw bless you

As I have convinced myself nothing will be found for us, I have already been thinking most of the things you've mentioned. I worry if DH will reject me or if he'll refer to the child as mine instead of ours. But to be honest I have read a lot about it and have yet to come across a couple that had this problem. Donor babies are wanted just as much as bio ones, if not more. If you think of the strength, commitment, love and longing it takes to consider using a donor, then it's easy to see why these babies are so loved and wanted.

I read somewhere that a donor baby will always be that couple's baby simply because it wouldn't exist without the incredible love and bond between that couple who decided to create it.

My DH thinks DNA is overrated he says it's the way you treat that child and bring them up that makes them yours; not whether they have your genes. Just look at all the amazing step-fathers out there who love kids that aren't tied to them by DNA.

There is a really great donor website that has helped me come to terms with things a bit better. I will look for link when I'm on PC. There are lots of accounts of couples and their feelings at all stages and also really honest, touching accounts of those conceived by donor sperm or egg.

I'm sorry you're feeling like this, but I do believe it's entirely normal and something all ladies go through prior to going ahead with a donor. With this diagnosis I have come to realise that as much as you think you've prepared yourself for something, when the next step becomes clear you realise you were barely prepared at all.

 

[Deb111]

So sorry to read you're struggling so much Wibble - I think it's only natural - we tell ourselves it's an option we can deal with but when we are faced with it in reality, it's very different.

Will post more later but just wanted to send you a big hug

 

[MissAma]

Same here. Not the posting but the sorry and the big big hug and strength vibes your way.

 

[silverbell]

https://www.donor-conception-network.org/index.htm

There you go.

At the end of the day it's a massive decision and you're only human to be questioning things.

 

[snd80]

WW- I completely feel you! I have been thinking the same things too here lately. But I am one to always look ahead for the what if's instead of living for the now. At first when we found all this out and hubby REFUSED to go to the dr., I started prepping myself for donor. I would suggest picking up a copy of the book "Helping the Stork". At first it was a lot to take in, but it really gets you thinking about what is to come if/when the child finds out it's "creation"... things I would have never thought about before... but in situations like this we can't help but to think of the "what if's"... It was written by a couple with male infertility just like us and their trials and tribulations through all this, along with other stories of other couples. Very helpful!!! I would be glad to send you my copy if you like! Hope you get to feeling better. All the girls on here really know how to get us back on our feet after a fall!

 

[silverbell]

Your last sentence is so true, snd.

The ladies on here are amazing. It's so comforting to be in touch with so many other ladies going through the same thing. I know this journey can take you down a few different routes and emotions, but there's always someone here who knows precisely how you feel and/or is going/has gone down the same route. It's a great thread and my sincere thanks to Deb for creating it so we can all provide shoulders for each other to cry on and invaluable support, advice and friendship.

 

[Pamplemousse]

Hi Wibble Wobble,

Wanted to send you a big hug!!!! I think you're feelings are perfectly normal. You have really been through it recently, remember we all need time to greive for the situation we are in.

I can echo what the others have said. My dad adopted my elder brother because his dad was not interested. I can say honestly my dad loves all of us euqally and if the truth be known his parents (so not my brother's 'bio' grandparents) have a really really special bond with him becasue he is their first grandchild!

Whichever route you take your child will be loved because you have both made a committment to raising a child and giving it all the love it deserves. Your child will be just like you and DH because you will have raised it and loved it!

I hope this helps. Take it easy!!! xxx

 

[Deb111]

I wish hubby could understand the reassuring advice you've all given about not being biologically theirs. I think he underestimates himself when he says he won't discuss it because he couldn't deal with it. I've not yet read or heard about any couples where this has been the case.

I actually have a real life friend who knows someone who used donor sperm. Apparently although her husband agreed to it, he was very withdrawn and not involved in much of the pregnancy but the minute he saw the baby on the scan, he was smitten and just adored him. I'm sure others on here who have been through it will say the same.

Hope you're feeling a bit better wibble and hope your appt today went well snd xx

 

[Deb111]

Check out this link girls - I was recommended pomegranate juice to help with implantation, but look what I found whilst researching it - worth a try but has to be the stuff NOT from concentrate

https://www.naturalnews.com/025359_juice_sperm_pomegranate.html