Dealing with azoospermia?

[snd80]

You know I never really thought about it this way til now, but in some sense I am a donor child too! My bio-mother got pg w/ me on her 15th b'day and my bio-father flaked out and ran off (he was only 17) and my grandparents wound up raising me as if I was their own. Sure they were mad b/c of the circumstances, but I have always been told the minute I was born my grandfather ("Daddy" to me) was smitten and I was his "baby girl" til the day he died. They never hid the truth from me and I always knew who was who in my life. I always called my bio-father "the donor" (ironically) and had hard feelings towards him b/c of what he did back then, only to find and meet him when I was 25 and we now have a great relationship! (Thanks to my "mother" [grandmother] reminding me of all this on the phone earlier). So basically not all donor children, concieved one way or another, are "doomed". It is all in who and how they are raised. And I think I turned out pretty swell!

PS- Appt is at 3 today! Got my boxing gloves on and ready!

 

[Deb111]

Lovely story snd

PS- Appt is at 3 today! Got my boxing gloves on and ready!

You go girl!!!!

 

[Sar187]

Wibble-So sorry you are having a tough time right now. I think all the other ladies are right though that we all go through these feelings. When I was considering this as an option I had all the same feelings and thoughts you are. In our case DH and I ended up concluding that if it came down to it we would prefer to adopt an embryo rather than using donor sperm. This is just what we were more comfortable with. It is a very hard and very personal decision. Hugs to you!

Deb-You mentioned things that help implantation. I'm going to list a few links about pineapple. Apparently eating the core is supposed to help with implantion. However the rest of the pineapple is not good during this time so just the core. Someone from another site I'm on posted these.

https://www.amandabears.com/pineapple-core-for-implantation.html
https://ezinearticles.com/?IVF-Implantation-Help-With-Food&id=4083098
https://ivf.ca/forums/topic/20995-walnut-and-pineapples-for-implantation/
https://thepregnancycentral.com/201...tion-three-foods-that-can-help/#axzz1Ze3Es5GW

 

[wibble wobble]

Hi that'd be great if you could send me the book,it'd be much appreichiated

WW- I completely feel you! I have been thinking the same things too here lately. But I am one to always look ahead for the what if's instead of living for the now. At first when we found all this out and hubby REFUSED to go to the dr., I started prepping myself for donor. I would suggest picking up a copy of the book "Helping the Stork". At first it was a lot to take in, but it really gets you thinking about what is to come if/when the child finds out it's "creation"... things I would have never thought about before... but in situations like this we can't help but to think of the "what if's"... It was written by a couple with male infertility just like us and their trials and tribulations through all this, along with other stories of other couples. Very helpful!!! I would be glad to send you my copy if you like! Hope you get to feeling better. All the girls on here really know how to get us back on our feet after a fall!

 

[Deb111]

Many thanks for those links sar. How are you doing? xx

 

[KB38]

I've been feeling pretty much the same way as you Wibble for a while now

I keep telling myself that it is a normal way to feel and in reality, as long as we are comfortable with the decision that we've made, it'll all be fine BUT then I see something negative and for some reason, its easier for me to believe the bad than the good.

For eg) I was in the newsagent the other day and I read an article in the Woman's Weekly (I picked it up because I saw the story on the front cover) which was about how donor children feel about their origins and it was awful!!! They were all entirely divorced from their families now and harboured such resentment. I locked myself into the nearest public toilet and cried for about half an hour. I'm sure I must have looked like a nightmare when I went back to work

I really like the way you're thinking about it Silverbell. I'm going to print out that paragraph in your post and stick it in my purse to read if you don't mind.

 

[silverbell]

Of course it's ok and I hope it helps.

You have to remember that magazines are often very one-sided. I have read quite a bit about donor conceived children and the only ones I have personally read about that have deep seated issues with their parents about it are those children who aren't told how they came about from an early age. There is a sweet little book for kids to explain it in simple terms (ie. Mommy and Daddy wanted a baby but it didn't work, so a very kind stranger helped because you were wanted so much ... ).

I've read that you should be completely open with the child and close family from day 1. Because then it's normal, nothing is hidden and it doesn't seem like there's anything to be ashamed of. It seems to be the children that aren't told at all and find out by accident or those that are told late on (teens onwards) that have - understandably - issues with it.

I would be interested to know if the people in that magazine had known from a very young age or not.

Try not to pay attention to articles like that, KB. It's just upsetting and isn't an accurate reflection of how most donor children feel. Definitely check out the website I posted the link for yesterday, as there are honest statements from donor conceived children.

 

[Sar187]

KB38-I agree with Silverbell in that those magazines tend to like the stories that have "shock value" to them. They don't want the stories about how it turned out great, nothing went wrong, and everything was good. So even when the bad stories make up the minority thats what they tell.

Deb-feeling pretty good, just had a few weird encounters with my taste buds lately. Perfectly good things have started tasting moldy occasionally.

So I decided to take a test yesterday to make sure the trigger shot was out of my system and got the expected definite BFN. I was going to wait until tomorrow to take another one but decided I might as well take one today completely expecting a negative result. Surprisingly I got a faint but definitely there BFP! However, I am now wondering whether I just missed a line on yesterdays test so won't really belive it until I see that line getting darker. In the mean time I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[snd80]

Sar.... I BELIEVE it!!!!

 

[snd80]

PS- Appt is at 3 today! Got my boxing gloves on and ready!

Ok, so I talked a good game, but wound up staring at the wall stone faced trying not to let my eggshell face break apart as dr. point blankly told us there was no hope or meds to "fix" hubby, that only IVF was an option, and then that is an iffy option due to hubby's health problems. So he suggested donor insemination or adoption. I got up and walked out, wrote the lady a check for $28 for nothing but bad news, and went outside and waited for hubby to come out. AS soon as we got in the car, he told me to get the ball rolling for donor, that there was no since wasting anymore time, that it is what it is. I told him I didn't want him to resent me or the baby, to which he replied that his grandparents raise him as well and they were mom and dad to him, and that this situation would be no different to him as his own was. Glad he's ok with it as I am still a wreck and cried myself to sleep last night. I guess I knew all along what the outcome was gonna be, but it took hearing it from a professional to make it "real"... That the little curly lipped, gap toothed child (like my hubby) we wanted so bad would never be. And that to me is just plain sad! So today I will call my dr. and then Jackson to see what we do from here.

 

[silverbell]

So I decided to take a test yesterday to make sure the trigger shot was out of my system and got the expected definite BFN. I was going to wait until tomorrow to take another one but decided I might as well take one today completely expecting a negative result. Surprisingly I got a faint but definitely there BFP! However, I am now wondering whether I just missed a line on yesterdays test so won't really belive it until I see that line getting darker. In the mean time I'm cautiously optimistic.

OMG Sar! I really hope it's a positive Will you be testing again tomorrow?

 

[silverbell]

Ok, so I talked a good game, but wound up staring at the wall stone faced trying not to let my eggshell face break apart as dr. point blankly told us there was no hope or meds to "fix" hubby, that only IVF was an option, and then that is an iffy option due to hubby's health problems. So he suggested donor insemination or adoption. I got up and walked out, wrote the lady a check for $28 for nothing but bad news, and went outside and waited for hubby to come out. AS soon as we got in the car, he told me to get the ball rolling for donor, that there was no since wasting anymore time, that it is what it is. I told him I didn't want him to resent me or the baby, to which he replied that his grandparents raise him as well and they were mom and dad to him, and that this situation would be no different to him as his own was. Glad he's ok with it as I am still a wreck and cried myself to sleep last night. I guess I knew all along what the outcome was gonna be, but it took hearing it from a professional to make it "real"... That the little curly lipped, gap toothed child (like my hubby) we wanted so bad would never be. And that to me is just plain sad! So today I will call my dr. and then Jackson to see what we do from here.

I'm so sorry. I really feel so sad for you. It's great that your hubby is so up for the next stage, but of course you both have to be on the same page at the same time.

Is there really no chance at all of them doing a biopsy to find out for sure? I know that when DH and I were at the start of this diagnosis we both said we'd have to get him to have that biopsy in order for us to move onto an alternative way of getting our family. We were prepared to pay privately for that, if need be. I know things are different in the US, but is there not a specialist in TESE/microTESE that you could visit to see what they think? I know Dr Schlegel will give brief advice by email as to whether there's a chance of successful sperm retrieval or not and I think there are a few others in the US that give free advice (which I think were mentioned yesterday or the day before).

I just wonder if perhaps you would need to know 10000% before you feel more able to face donor sperm? I know that's how both my DH and I felt and still feel.

Sending you lots of

 

[snd80]

I'm sure they could, but I just can't afford to or waste anymore time on him. I know that sounds horrible, but we have to think of what is financially sound for us that will work for sure. I've got a call into my dr. to see if he thinks I am ready (body and cycle wise) and how to get referred for the next step and also to see if there are anywhere closer to us than Jackson. We shall see. I am ready too. It was my original plan to begin with 6 months ago, I just had to re-adjust after getting false hopes.

 

[silverbell]

I'm sure they could, but I just can't afford to or waste anymore time on him. I know that sounds horrible, but we have to think of what is financially sound for us that will work for sure. I've got a call into my dr. to see if he thinks I am ready (body and cycle wise) and how to get referred for the next step and also to see if there are anywhere closer to us than Jackson. We shall see. I am ready too. It was my original plan to begin with 6 months ago, I just had to re-adjust after getting false hopes.

That's fair enough then, snd I hope you get an answer soon so you know what the next step is. Sorry it wasn't better news today.

 

[Deb111]

Snd - I'm sorry it wasn't better news, but glad you are moving on.

Sar - very excited for you and keeping everything crossed xx

 

[Sar187]

Silverbell-I will be testing again tomorrow. Hoping to see that line getting a little darker .

Snd-So sorry you didn't get better news today. Really hoping things work out for you!

Deb-How are things going for your cycle?

Hope everyone else is doing well!

 

[Deb111]

Well this morning's news ... when I felt quite happy with things right hand side - 2 follies - 17.5mm and 10mm
left hand side - 3 follies - 13.5mm, 10mm and 1 less than 10mm

No free fluid

Endometrium 7.5mm

He was very pleased with lining and 5 follies was about all we could expect

bit worried aboutt timing now as he thinks 19th may be too far ahead for EC, but I think the lister will slow down my meds to compensate

And then copy of an email I've sent to my specialist at London clinic after call from their IVF nurses - not feeling very happy now

"Dear Mr Nicopoullos,

I just wanted to run a couple of concerns about my ICSI cycle past you. As you are aware, we are having a synchronous ISCI / microTESE cycle.
When I initially spoke to the nurses about the dates for my medications, I was told to start the menopur injections on 6th October and was assured that this would be fine for egg collection being after 17th / 18th as Mr Ramsay is not available on those 2 days for Terry's microTESE. I was also reassured that if necessary my menopur could be reduced slightly so that I could coast if necessary. I think it was a nurse called Donna that I spoke to.

Today I have had a scan at MFS and received a call from the Lister IVF nurses (I think her name was Kita) telling me to increase my 375 dose to 450 dose for the next 2 days. I queried this as I was worried that it might bring egg collection forward too early and had a phonecall back to tell me, under the circumstances, to stay on 375 for the next 2 days and to see what Friday's scan showed. I was then told, again, that egg collection will then most likely be from Monday onwards and again, I pointed out that Monday or Tuesday are no good for our synchronous cycle. I was made to feel that coasting is not an option.

I am really concerned that I was incorrectly told to increase my medication, without there seeming to be an awareness of the synchronous microTESE and even more concerned that egg collection might end up being too early based on what I was told today. I was also told that "hopefully, the follicles wont have been lost by then."

It also seems that I have been taking my menopur at the wrong time. I had been told to reduce my nasal spray to one sniff in the morning and to add the menopur and then one sniff 8 hours later. It is only today that I have been told I should have been taking it after 7pm and not in the morning. This has never been mentioned to me and I cannot see any mention of it in the literature I have been given.

I am sure you understand our concerns, afterall it has taken us over 2 years to get to this stage and a lot of money!

I would be grateful of your thoughts regarding the timing of my cycle and any advice you can offer as we are quite anxious about this.

Many thanks"

 

[Sar187]

Deb-I am frustrated for you right now! It sounds like they really have not coordinated as well as they should have or are not taking the time to properly look into your case.

I'm not familiar with the common protocol for IVF cycles used in the UK so don't know much about the nasal spray and while I know we do use menopur here in the US I am not familiar with that protocol.

According to the information I have though follicles tend to grow about 1-2mm/day so I would think your 13.5mm and smaller follies would have a very good chance of being perfect for Retrieval after the 17th/18th. I would be a bit worried about losing the 17.5mm one if it ends up having an egg that is too "mature". Over here they usually like follies between 18-22mm at retrieval for optimum egg maturity.

I really hope they didn't screw something up and that this cycle can work for you!

 

[Deb111]

I think I just have to accept that I could lose the bigger one. The Dr who scanned me at MFS said that they wouldn't go in aiming for that one, as the others wouldn't be ready, so it makes sense to aim for the other 4 and hope we get the bonus of the bigger one.

Thanks for the info about growth rate xx

 

[Sar187]

I had 1 follicle that was 26mm 3 days before retrieval, not sure what its final size was or if they collected an egg from it and whether it was good. I do know that out of the 14 eggs they collected from me 13 were usable.

4 is still a lot better than nothing hopefully you will get some good quality eggs .