Debate: - Gun Laws and Self Defence

[aly888]

Ok but what are the statistics that someone will actually break into your home... if you lock your doors, windows, etc.

Especially with intent to harm

Obviously it can happen and does...

It's the fact that it can happen - surely it's better to have something to defend yourself with in the most dangerous situation you could find yourself in, than to say 'ah well, it's unlikely that someone will break into my house, let alone with the intention to harm myself, my partner, my child...so why prepare myself for that possibility?'

Iyswim?

But how do you know that you wont over-react and shoot an intruder that wasn't[/] putting you in the most dangerous situation, but you were so scared that you panic and shoot? You may find yourself grabbing for your gun every time someone knocks at your door, coz you dont know, they might be waiting for you to open the door so they can force their way in... it would be a sad world if we all had to live with the fear that everyone has the most dangerous intentions and to assume that everyone that burgles you is gonna hurt you

 

[MrHenry]

No I said a .22 it's used for rabbits and squirrels...I took it squirrel hunting once. It wouldn't kill you if you were TRYING TO KILL YOUR SELF! The bullet won't go through most anything.

So that said Hayley I was trained to use it, and knew exactly what I was doing...but I shouldn't be allowed it?

 

[Blah11]

its a lot easier to obtain an illegal gun in America I assume? Just because theres so many more about and gun crime is a LOT higher over there. I know down in England its slightly higher but up in Scotland guncrime is realllly low.

Knife crime on the other hand

 

[MrHenry]

So I should let someone "burgle" me because they "MAY" not hurt me?

 

[nightkd]

This debate seems to be turning into a gun debate so i thought i would add my 2 pence worth. I don't believe guns should be legal at all in the u.k. no matter what they are used for. Just look at Dumblane

You know that taxi driver who went around recently and randomly killed a load of people in the UK....we were discussing that...over here, the guy probably would have been shot after he killed the first person - potentially saving the lives of the following victims...

Just something interesting to consider. Of course this brings all sorts of other potential scenarios into play - but there would likely have been someone over here, with a conceal and carry license, carrying their handgun, who could've stopped him early on.

 

[Charlotteee]

Would you all like me to change the thread title to Gun Laws and their uses?

 

[Hayley90]

No I said a .22 it's used for rabbits and squirrels...I took it squirrel hunting once. It wouldn't kill you if you were TRYING TO KILL YOUR SELF! The bullet won't go through most anything.

So that said Hayley I was trained to use it, and knew exactly what I was doing...but I shouldn't be allowed it?

Ok, i wont comment on the hunting part, thats another debate...

Any gun is capable of killing someone. Same as someone said earlier - tazers can kill, a punch can kill ... just luck (or not!) whether it does or not.

I get that it was for hunting but... no. I still dont think so. Nothing against you or anything, i just don't see the point. I could teach a 14 year old to drive - doesn't mean he should be on the road in a car. There are many examples.

I dunno...maybe its because they are so rare over here, i dont see the point of one, whereas if you're used to them being around its not such a big deal.

 

[Blah11]

This debate seems to be turning into a gun debate so i thought i would add my 2 pence worth. I don't believe guns should be legal at all in the u.k. no matter what they are used for. Just look at Dumblane

You know that taxi driver who went around recently and randomly killed a load of people in the UK....we were discussing that...over here, the guy probably would have been shot after he killed the first person - potentially saving the lives of the following victims...

Just something interesting to consider. Of course this brings all sorts of other potential scenarios into play - but there would likely have been someone over here, with a conceal and carry license, carrying their handgun, who could've stopped him early on.

Hmm.. dunno about that really. I just see people missing and shooting others instead.

 

[bky]

Since I'm from the US I'm used to the idea of being able to defend oneself in a break in. Now that we live here the fact that I might be prosecuted for doing that makes me a bit uneasy. Often it's a clear case and the victim isn't prosecuted, but it's still worrying to me that if something did happen there would be a serious inquiry. However, I'm glad that people are protected from excessive force IYKWIM? People aren't allowed to sue here for personal injury resulting in bodily or emotional harm(they have to appeal to be able to sue), so I think that helps me feel better about it.

As for guns, well. I think education is certainly the way to go. There was an attempted school shooting in Oregon some years back and the students there (being a more rural hunting town with a gun club, yes at the school) saw the shooter, were not mindlessly afraid of the gun and overpowered the shooter. No life lost. The NRA pushes for education more than any other body and I agree. However, education isn't taught for much the same reason sex ed isn't taught in the US. Because people think it will encourage people to engage in that behavior.

I kind of like the way NZ handles guns as well. You have to be a member of a gun club and if someone doesn't feel you are storing yours appropriately they can report you for an inspection by the gun club--which can result in you losing your license. The police aren't armed as a matter of course and there are very few tasers in the country--often when needed they have to be flown in from a larger city. I love this because I'm no longer afraid of the police.
There have been people with illegal guns (and of course here local news is national news) but responsible gun owners are in the vast majority.

 

[Blah11]

Would you all like me to change the thread title to Gun Laws and their uses?

What about Self defense and gun law?

 

[tasha41]

You can get a license to use a hunting gun at 12 here I believe. Your parents are involved in that though, a 12 year old can't just go get a license for a gun on his/her own.

NOW how I feel about hunting animals for sport or recreation or w/e (even with the intent to eat them) is another debate Joking kinda, it's not for me, BUT I don't believe we should take guns away from hunters.. however the place for a hunting rifle is not kept in a closet or something, unless you have bears breaking down your front door lol... that doesn't sound serious but really I guess that's where I'd agree with having a gun in my home

 

[Hayley90]

This debate seems to be turning into a gun debate so i thought i would add my 2 pence worth. I don't believe guns should be legal at all in the u.k. no matter what they are used for. Just look at Dumblane

You know that taxi driver who went around recently and randomly killed a load of people in the UK....we were discussing that...over here, the guy probably would have been shot after he killed the first person - potentially saving the lives of the following victims...

Just something interesting to consider. Of course this brings all sorts of other potential scenarios into play - but there would likely have been someone over here, with a conceal and carry license, carrying their handgun, who could've stopped him early on.

Hmm.. dunno about that really. I just see people missing and shooting others instead.

Like Jean Charles D'Menezes (might have spelt his name wrong. The guy who was shot on London underground) Didnt that turn out to be a case of the police being too trigger-happy and shooting him without enough warning? or mistaken identity or something?

 

[Blah11]

The idea of a gun club uneases me

 

[tasha41]

What if someone breaks in and steals your guns that are not locked up..

 

[MrHenry]

Concealed Carry. Anyone know what it is? I'm certified most military people (here) are certified. It means I can carry a gun at all times. Since the law was passed allowing for the people to be armed VIOLENT CRIME has DROPPED 70%. That is a REAL number!

 

[marley2580]

This debate seems to be turning into a gun debate so i thought i would add my 2 pence worth. I don't believe guns should be legal at all in the u.k. no matter what they are used for. Just look at Dumblane

You know that taxi driver who went around recently and randomly killed a load of people in the UK....we were discussing that...over here, the guy probably would have been shot after he killed the first person - potentially saving the lives of the following victims...

Just something interesting to consider. Of course this brings all sorts of other potential scenarios into play - but there would likely have been someone over here, with a conceal and carry license, carrying their handgun, who could've stopped him early on.

But in the UK gun crime is so low (due to the lack of guns) that any kind of shooting is a remarkable event, that simply isn't the case in the US.

 

[aly888]

It's like wearing your seatbelt, I'm unlikely to get in a wreck tonight on the way home, but I still wear it. Whoever it was that said she knew about the Boy Scouts, do you know what the boy scout motto is?
You are a thousand times more likely to die in a car than on a plane...you still have to wear their seatbelts...do you see what I mean. Why assume it won't happen to me?

That was me, and the motto is 'be prepared' but I very much doubt by that they mean 'carry a gun'

So I should let someone "burgle" me because they "MAY" not hurt me?

no, what I'm trying to say is, a gun shouldnt be your first line of defence. Earlier in the debate buttonnose asked 'where do you draw the line? at what point does 'self defence' become 'an attack'?' and all the responses to that question were we would use as little force as required to protect our property. So, if someone came into your house, drunk out of their head, your first reaction is gonna be 'grab the gun' regardless of whether they are there to hurt you, or whether they are just so drunk that they honestly dont even realise where they are. So there you are, gun in your hand, telling this guy to get out your house, but he's not listening (coz he is drunk). You are getting more and more frustrated with him and start to panic that he is being unpredictable so decide that a bullet in his kneww cap will sort him out...if that reasonaly force or is that too much?
(when I refer to 'you', i dont mean YOU, but just assume that you were that type of person in that type of situation)

This debate seems to be turning into a gun debate so i thought i would add my 2 pence worth. I don't believe guns should be legal at all in the u.k. no matter what they are used for. Just look at Dumblane

You know that taxi driver who went around recently and randomly killed a load of people in the UK....we were discussing that...over here, the guy probably would have been shot after he killed the first person - potentially saving the lives of the following victims...

Just something interesting to consider. Of course this brings all sorts of other potential scenarios into play - but there would likely have been someone over here, with a conceal and carry license, carrying their handgun, who could've stopped him early on.

So people take law into their own hands over there? yes, someone could have shot him and stopped him, but what if someone else had seen this other guy shoot him (but not know why) then decided to 'stop him' by shooting him too???

 

[nightkd]

Ok but what are the statistics that someone will actually break into your home... if you lock your doors, windows, etc.

Especially with intent to harm

Obviously it can happen and does...

It's the fact that it can happen - surely it's better to have something to defend yourself with in the most dangerous situation you could find yourself in, than to say 'ah well, it's unlikely that someone will break into my house, let alone with the intention to harm myself, my partner, my child...so why prepare myself for that possibility?'

Iyswim?

But how do you know that you wont over-react and shoot an intruder that wasn't[/] putting you in the most dangerous situation, but you were so scared that you panic and shoot? You may find yourself grabbing for your gun every time someone knocks at your door, coz you dont know, they might be waiting for you to open the door so they can force their way in... it would be a sad world if we all had to live with the fear that everyone has the most dangerous intentions and to assume that everyone that burgles you is gonna hurt you

If someone breaks into my house, they are well aware that they are risking their life by being there. Whether they are stealing stuff or there for the sake of harming me - I have the right to shoot them if I feel threatened. Just because someone breaks in with the intention to steal something, doesn't mean that his intentions won't change when he realises I'm there.

IMO, the intruder is aware that I may have the means of harming or killing him, if he's on my property, then I have the RIGHT to harm or kill him, so if he makes the decision to break in...it's pretty much down to him...

I rarely answer the door when DH isn't home anyway and I certainly wouldn't take the gun to the door! If I look through the peephole and don't like what I see, I just won't answer!

 

[bky]

The idea of a gun club uneases me

Why? I'm curious.
I guess there might be the perception it's a bunch of wackos sitting around caressing their guns, but really it's generally a bunch of people keeping an eye on each other making sure laws are followed so everyone can benefit and people stay safe.

 

[MrHenry]

The point is not to jump straight to guns, we have door locks, those are first! Then I have a baseball bat next to the bed, then I have a gun. I'm not worried about a drunk running around my house. I have a problem if he is carrying a gun or a knife! I have OPTIONS, I've told Charlotte MANY times, I'll look you call 911, 18 minutes is a LONG time when someone is in your house!