Debate: - Gun Laws and Self Defence

[aly888]

Stun gun is a taser gun right?

erm, not sure. Dont think so. I think a taser is one of those things that has two 'prongs' and needs to be held against a person. A stun gun actually 'fires' two barbs out on wires that then hook onto the offender and delivers a shock, which can then be repeated if required (I think)

ETA - oops, just searched and I've got it completely the wrong way around

 

[aly888]

Gun related death per year stats

1.United States - 11,127 (3.601 per 100,000)
2.Germany – 381 (0.466/100,000)
3.France – 255 (0.389/100,000)
4.Canada – 165 (0.484/100,000)
5.United Kingdom – 68 (0.109/100,000)
6.Australia – 65 (0.292/100,000)
7.Japan – 39 (0.030/100,000)


wow.

Mmmm, statistics...

And those figures would be a lot different with different populations.

I'd like to know what that includes tbh - are those gun related deaths incl. by police? Accidents? Self defense? Nutjobs?

How do you mean 'different with different populations'?

and surely who is holding/shooting the gun is irrelevant. The fact is that people have been killed as a result of gun crime!

If there are 1000 people in one country and 10,000 people in another, there may be more of a certain type of person in one country, compared to another... I mean the gun deaths in the UK...where it isn't as 'easy' to get hold of a gun - they could be police, whereas in the US it could be police, self defence (as in someone kills someone to save the life of another for example) or so on... You can say here are 10 people, here are another 10...but all you know is there are two sets of 10 people, not who is included in them... That's the problem with statistics.

And I see nothing in those stats that specifically says those deaths are ALL a result of 'gun crime'.

Anyway, I need to go and get a shower before I get in trouble!!

ok, i get it now!

oops, I didnt mean 'gun crime'. I meant 'gun related'!

 

[Blah11]

haha!

 

[tasha41]

I agree with bky, since tasers/stun guns are "less lethal" they are perceived as being safe/safer to use... but you'll find tons of reports of deaths following the use of them!

 

[Nic1107]

It was mentioned earlier that the UK has a high rate of knife crime? Should knives then be banned in the UK, as people are killed with them? It's not really true that guns exist solely to kill; people use them for sport (clay shooting) and for hunting (which kills animals yes, but whether or not killing animals is okay is a completely different debate!) People who intend to harm others will harm others whatever weapon they use. Guns don't necessarily make it easier either, in fact one could argue that it makes it more difficult because it evens the score in a sense. If I'm little and my attacker is big, a gun can make us the same size. I still want hand guns off the streets just throwing out an argument for the "pro" side.

As for cops, yes I believe they should carry guns as things stand here right now. If guns became completely banned and the incidence of people having them and using them harmfully really did go down to a rate like the UK, then the cops can get rid of their guns. They certainly know how to (over)use a tazer . It definitely sounds like it's not necessary for UK cops to carry guns, but I could be wrong since I've never been there.

 

[Blah11]

Personally, I don't like tasers. I think they're a bit barbaric. I wouldn't be too upset with police officers using them (but theyd need to be used only in a huge emergency) but theyre legal in USA, people can carry them about the street if they want

 

[Blah11]

It was mentioned earlier that the UK has a high rate of knife crime? Should knives then be banned in the UK, as people are killed with them? It's not really true that guns exist solely to kill; people use them for sport (clay shooting) and for hunting (which kills animals yes, but whether or not killing animals is okay is a completely different debate!) People who intend to harm others will harm others whatever weapon they use. Guns don't necessarily make it easier either, in fact one could argue that it makes it more difficult because it evens the score in a sense. If I'm little and my attacker is big, a gun can make us the same size. I still want hand guns off the streets just throwing out an argument for the "pro" side.

As for cops, yes I believe they should carry guns as things stand here right now. If guns became completely banned and the incidence of people having them and using them harmfully really did go down to a rate like the UK, then the cops can get rid of their guns. They certainly know how to (over)use a tazer . It definitely sounds like it's not necessary for UK cops to carry guns, but I could be wrong since I've never been there.

Thats ridiculous. I use a knife several times a day, every day and so far, i've never stabbed someone. Not the same at all.

 

[tasha41]

Yeah that is awful that tasers are legal for people to carry. I think they are marketed to women wanting something to fend off attackers...


They're prohibited weapons here

 

[Nic1107]

Personally, I don't like tasers. I think they're a bit barbaric. I wouldn't be too upset with police officers using them (but theyd need to be used only in a huge emergency) but theyre legal in USA, people can carry them about the street if they want

They're definitely not just used in huge emergencies here. I think cops here need vigorous re-training in accessing a situation and much stricter rules regarding tazer usage, as it's really getting out of control. But then, there have also been numerous reports, especially in my home city, of cops beating people half to death with their fists & feet, so I think there's a lot of problem cops here and that needs getting to the bottom of first and foremost.

 

[aly888]

It was mentioned earlier that the UK has a high rate of knife crime? Should knives then be banned in the UK, as people are killed with them? It's not really true that guns exist solely to kill; people use them for sport (clay shooting) and for hunting (which kills animals yes, but whether or not killing animals is okay is a completely different debate!) People who intend to harm others will harm others whatever weapon they use. Guns don't necessarily make it easier either, in fact one could argue that it makes it more difficult because it evens the score in a sense. If I'm little and my attacker is big, a gun can make us the same size. I still want hand guns off the streets just throwing out an argument for the "pro" side.

As for cops, yes I believe they should carry guns as things stand here right now. If guns became completely banned and the incidence of people having them and using them harmfully really did go down to a rate like the UK, then the cops can get rid of their guns. They certainly know how to (over)use a tazer . It definitely sounds like it's not necessary for UK cops to carry guns, but I could be wrong since I've never been there.

it is illegal in UK to carry a knife on you (and illegal to sell to anyone under 18, including kitchen knives), so in a way, they are banned. But obviously difficult to police as anyone can just take one from their kitchen

and I think the argument was that guns were 'invented' as a means to kill. There uses have 'expanded' since then to include clay shooting, but hunting is still killing, although for some reason more acceptable!

 

[Blah11]

Yeah, I heard police at schools (which is a in itself for me!) use them on children!

 

[Nic1107]

It was mentioned earlier that the UK has a high rate of knife crime? Should knives then be banned in the UK, as people are killed with them? It's not really true that guns exist solely to kill; people use them for sport (clay shooting) and for hunting (which kills animals yes, but whether or not killing animals is okay is a completely different debate!) People who intend to harm others will harm others whatever weapon they use. Guns don't necessarily make it easier either, in fact one could argue that it makes it more difficult because it evens the score in a sense. If I'm little and my attacker is big, a gun can make us the same size. I still want hand guns off the streets just throwing out an argument for the "pro" side.

As for cops, yes I believe they should carry guns as things stand here right now. If guns became completely banned and the incidence of people having them and using them harmfully really did go down to a rate like the UK, then the cops can get rid of their guns. They certainly know how to (over)use a tazer . It definitely sounds like it's not necessary for UK cops to carry guns, but I could be wrong since I've never been there.

Thats ridiculous. I use a knife several times a day, every day and so far, i've never stabbed someone. Not the same at all.

I know it's ridiculous. As my husband uses a gun several times a day during hunting season, and he's never shot someone at all. My point was that people who want to kill people will kill them, whichever weapon is at their disposal, and anything in the wrong hands could be lethal.

 

[Nic1107]

Yeah, I heard police at schools (which is a in itself for me!) use them on children!

I don't know about small children, but there is a well-known video of cops tazering an unarmed college student several times for challenging (verbally) a political candidate at a speaking arrange at his school.

 

[Blah11]

I understand what you're saying but still...

It's much easier to shoot someone than to stab them. You don't get random drive by stabbings do you? You don't really get stabbing massacres or people throwing knives from long range like snipers.

 

[buttonnose82]

if i lived somewhere where i didn't feel safe to the point i felt i had to carry a gun to protect myself ...... i'd move

 

[Blah11]

Yeah, I heard police at schools (which is a in itself for me!) use them on children!

I don't know about small children, but there is a well-known video of cops tazering an unarmed college student several times for challenging (verbally) a political candidate at a speaking arrange at his school.

Oh that's horrid. Yeah, I heard it was a 6 yr old who was threatening to self harm

 

[Oushka]

My take on the whole 'self defence in my home' is that if someone is stupid enough to break in, whatever their reason then they'll bloomin well take whatever I throw at them... most likely a not very nice welcome from my 2 dogs.
Then I would call the police.
Why should they be protected? Why should I have to think before I act in that situation?

I think that we should have the right to defend our families & homes & not have to give a monkeys about the muppets that break the law & invade my space. They put themselves into my domain then they can take whatevers given. I wouldnt be waiting for them to prove their intentions either, the dogs would be straight in & I would not be calling them off until either a. Im sure the assailant is suitably unable to harm me or my family or b. the police arrive.

I really cant see how there could be any 'sides' to this & get annoyed when i read/hear about criminals getting compensated for any harm they come to!

 

[SKATERBUN]

I work for a Swiss company based in the UK, and most of my Swiss colleagues overseas own a gun. All young males receive training in how to use one and are educated by the army. Looking at the statistics their gun crime is virtually nil.

I think its all about getting to the root of the crimes committed and then educating people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

https://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_ove_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop

 

[Drazic<3]

So why such low gun crime from the Swiss and such high from the Americans? Do you think it's just education or cultural as well?

Not arguing, just interested

 

[ALY]

Honestly I think it's more dangerous to have a dog that will attack an intruder in the house...particularly with a child. This coming from someone who was attacked twice by my ex BF's mum's dog (over food!) simply because it was 'trained' to attack intruders - how can you confidently train a dog to differentiate between an intruder and guest, or a child playing rough?

i have a dog and id say its a lot safer than having a gun in the house where kids are

max is a softie when we are all here and if someone walks thro the door in the day then he WOULDNT attack them unless he knew they were dangerous
at night time he is a diff dog and will protect us now if that means bitting someone then so be it at least that way i no my kids arnt going to get old of a gun and cause someone serious harm or themselves

oh and max only eats off me and sam so he wouldnt attck anyone who has food