is/was your LO a really bad sleeper? support and advise thread!

[Lulu1982]

He's still very young boo. How long is he awake before,you start your bedtime routine? I'd be tempted just to let him go to 'bed' whenever he's ready if hes only waking very 3 or 4 hours during the night but I think it's probably a very personal choice. Our LO always had a bedtime routine but because she was horrendous at napping (10 minutes at a time) we didn't have a set bedtime until about 3.5 - 4 months and even once we set it it could sometimes take hours to settle her.x

 

[flippityflop]

Bedtime is not going well for us

LO is 10 weeks. I just don't feel like we have the evening routine sorted yet. He is feeding 3/4 hourly (FF) and that puts his evening bottle around 7 or 7.30. So we do bath then bottle at that time. A few weeks ago we started then putting him down in his Moses basket after that bottle in a room on his own (dining room so just next to us). The first 2 nights he went off no trouble in fact from awake a couple of times! We thought we ha cracked it.

Then gradually he seems to have got worse and worse at the routine. He is now wide awake after his evening bottle no matter what time we do it. He is not upset just wants to look round and play! If we put him down like that he just screams. So I started waiting until he was drowsy and then putting him down which worked for a bit. Now he is even worse in that it can be over an hour after his last bottle that he is drowsy so that wasn't working either! We thought maybe being downstairs was affecting him so have put his Moses basket into his cot to see if that works

Tonight he had his bottle at 7 as he was hungry. Bath first. Seemed really tired after bottle and fell straight asleep in my arms. I put him down at 7.50 and he was asleep. By 8 he was wide awake in his basket! Now no matter how much rocking we do he won't sleep

Forgot to mention he likes to suck a dummy but is completely incapable of keeping it in himself If we could find a dummy that didn't fall out we'd be laughing. As it is we can't stand next to his Moses basket holding his dummy in forever!!

Once he's asleep he's fine. But I just have this sinking feeling that we're doing something totally wrong with his bedtime routine as he just doesn't fall sleepy on his last bottle like he should

I'm downstairs in tears at the mo whilst OH sits up there with him and our tea is going cold

Helllllllp

Hugs Boo. My only advice is based on my own experience and that is, at 10 weeks I ad absolutely no kind of routine and couldn't fathom having one. 10 weeks is tiny and I think you areputting wwwaaaayyy too much pressure on yourself to try and get a bedtime sorted. At 10 weeks I'd eat dinner with one hand and hold LO wit the other. He came upstairs with us when we went to bed. At this age they are still working out what is day and what is night and what's going on in the world. So my only advice is just follow LO's lead right now.He'll start being a little more settled in time. x

 

[Boo44]

Thanks girls. It does help to hear from other people when I'm expecting too much of LO! I just want to do the best for him - don't we all! I am guilty of loving routine in general. I'll just have to let it go for a while I think!

 

[AngelUK]

I am not sure your LO isn't too young to really "get" a routine as yet but here are a few things I can think of that you could maybe add to your bed time routine:
Do you take him into a darkened room to feed him his bed time bottle?
Could you put some white noise on when you feed him? This will usually lull him to sleep, plus you then don't have to tiptoe around the house out of fear to wake him.
When you try to resettle him, do not look too much into his face or you will stimulate him into wanting to interact with you.
Keep all contact as quiet and calm as possible. If you have to change him keep the light as low as you can and again, do not look into his eyes too much. Also if you need to talk, do it in a whisper and very calmly. You can sing to him of course but keep your voice low and calming.
Also, have you considered swaddling him? Maybe a swaddle pod like the Woombie might help? It still calms my boys no end.
I am not sure this will magically do the trick but it did sort of work for our boys. At least till just before 4 months when Dom started to sleep badly. Sigh. Good luck xxx

 

[lisa1980]

Kosh - my LO sleeps in a cot in his nursery, has done since 4.5 months. His crap sleep started before we moved him so it didn't make a difference moving him (from his Moses basket).

Lisa - I'm obviously not happy you've had to do CC but I'm so happy for you iyswim! I really hope tonight is even better and you can get a good nights sleep. I know what you mean about having the energy to actually play and be fun for LO. I just never had the energy before. Fingers crossed for tonight. Let us know how it goes. We actually had the first night waking in almost a month last night. We were at my mums so it was a strange place (hasn't slept there since we did CC) and he's still poorly. He was awake from 2-3.30, I didn't do CC as he's poorly. Hopefully now we're home he'll be more settled although that one waking is nothing compared to the past and what others are going through.

Thanks He went to sleep tonight at 8pm with a bottle and no fuss at all and hasn't woken yet. Unprecedented but the night is still young so I'm not counting my chickens just yet I feel nervous about him waking and having to do it again...not because it was that bad really but because I'm scared it was a fluke and it'll never work again Ah well, will have to wait and see.

I'm so glad to hear your LO is still sleeping well (barring last night. When they're ill all bets are off IMO anyway). I am too scared to even hope that my LO will start to sleep like yours. I'm sure I'd be awake all night checking him anyway - you just can't win!

Kosh - LO sleeps in his own room now, but that's only been in the last 2 weeks ish. Before that he was co-sleeping with us and had been from about 5months as it was the only way to get any rest. I hated it at first, then began to like it and I kind of miss him now he's not in the bed, but he REALLY likes his own space at night and OH snores like a beast which kept waking him, so we decided to move him in the hope that it would help. There's a double bed in his nursery which I would bring him into sometimes if he wouldn't settle anyway.

Boo Angel has come up with some really good ideas to try but please don't feel like your situation is unusual in any way. 10 weeks still comes under the 'do whatever you have to do to survive' bracket in my book so my advice would be to do whatever works best and is least stressful for you all. I had literally NO routine at all for ages, LO would go to bed at all different times, fed when he was hungry etc until HE decided to implement his own routine which I had to learn and had no hand in whatsoever. Even now it sometimes randomly changes and you just have to roll with it. I know it feels like you just can't get a grip on it but you really don't need to yet. Just try to enjoy him being so little. There's plenty of time for routine-tweaking and sleep-stressing later...just look at all of us

 

[firefly15]

Aaarrgghhh. Looks like I paid for an easy bedtime...LO woke up at 9.30 for a feed and then spent the next hour coughing and sniffly and unable to settle. He ended up coughing so much he made himself sick so just had to strip him down and clean him up, which isn't exactly conducive to sleepiness. I think he may finally have gone back to sleep but it seems like the pattern of the last few nights is being repeated so I don't expect much sleep tonight.

So frustrating when he had no cold symptoms at all when I put him to bed, but after the first feed they seem to surface with a vengeance and keep us up and unsettled for hours. WHY?!?!?

Lisa - yay for a good bedtime and fingers crossed you get a night of lovely unbroken sleep!

 

[lisa1980]

Morning all

How were your nights?

Firefly - I hope your fears for the night turned out to be unfounded. Have you tried some Vicks or baby olbas oil? They seem to work quite well when my LO is snuffly.

My night was good (I feel scared to say it in case the sleep Gods punish me tonight!). He slept from 8pm-2am without waking which is AMAZING as it was the marathon evening wakings which were really getting to me before. I got to eat dinner! At the same time as DH! I couldn't fully relax though as I kept imagining I heard him wake up This is how crazy I've become

He then had a feed at 2am (full feed too despite an 8oz bottle before bed I'm continuing as i assume he wouldn't feed so well if he didn't need it and I don't mind night feeds if they're quick and he goes back down easily tbh). Then woke again at 5am but resettled with dummy and repositioning - he did protest when I left the room but only for a few seconds. Then up at 7.15am, happy as Larry.

I can't believe it. I didn't even have to hear him cry AT ALL last night at bedtime. I know every evening and night won't be as easy but so long as there's a pattern of overall improvement I'm SO happy.That's the least crying we've had in....forever it feels like.

I hope you're all still asleep!

 

[flippityflop]

Lisa I was hoping you'd update this morning! Fantastic news. It is hard to relax at first. I spent so many months up and down all evening then when finally all I had to do was stay down I was on the edge of my seat for ages. Hopefully this is the start of a new sleep heaven for you! What time did you go to bed?

 

[lisa1980]

I went at 10pm. I should have gone earlier to take advantage but I was convinced he'd wake up any minute. Still, 4 hrs in a row is pretty spectacular for me

The main thing i'm happy about is avoiding the evening battle and screaming to get him to sleep, followed by countless repeats when he wakes every hour all evening.

(whisper it ...I'm hoping that he'll start to drop his night feed or move it later and later as he drinks a huge evening bottle usually, but I'm in no rush for this as it seems churlish to complain about it in light of the amazing improvements and I can totally get on board with one night feed FOREVER if it means less screaming and fighting)

How was your night flippity? How's Cormac?

 

[flippityflop]

He slept through,a few gurgles around 10pm but only for a minute. I think he's over the worst of it now.

I'm sure your LO will drop his nightfeed eventually. When he woke up at 2am what did he do? Did you give him a chance to go back to sleep or did he wake up properly? The first two nights I did it Cormac woke around 3 or 4. He wasn't crying so I lay in bed listening to him. He gurgles a bit, a few angry shouts but no crying and within about 6 minutes he'd gone back to sleep again.

 

[lisa1980]

He gurgled for a while then started crying. I probably didn't wait long enough to see if he'd settle tbh as because he always takes a full feed overnight i just assume he needs it and want to try and do it before he fully wakes but it could well just be habit. He does eat lots in the day so I'm sure he doesn't need it iyswim? The night before last he had a 10oz bottle and then a BF on top before bed! I reckon even I would be full after that

I might give him a couple of mins tonight to see what he actually does. When he wakes around 5am he seems to resettle quite well with just a dummy and quick pat so maybe I'll try that tactic at the 2am wake and see what he does. I'm happy to continue feeding him at night but it could be that I haven't actually given him a chance to see if he DOES really want it.

 

[chocolala]

Lily didn't fight sleep at all last night! I think it's because she was so tired, as she only had 30 mins nap in the afternoon. She still slept like poop though. There were times when she was feeding roughly every 10 mins But she had a lay in, which means she slept for going on 12 hours!

I took advantage of her not fighting and went to bed at 9:15, I was exhausted, blimmin' hormones!

I'm wondering whether I should start dropping Lily's second nap, as last night she just didn't fight, but then it could have been a fluke. Not really sure what to do.

 

[Lulu1982]

After she took 45 minutes to settle last night she slept through!!! I can't believe it ... 8pm to 7am!!!

It seems that she wasnt waking because she was hungry every night, at least I dont think so.

I almost didnt know what to do with myself all night!

Some good news here this morning ladies! Where's Angel?!

 

[AngelUK]

I am here, thanks for asking. My Oh said the night was ok. We went to bed at 10.30 and Dom only woke and wanted feeding at 00:40 which means OH got to sleep a stretch till then. After that he fed the boys at 4 and then 7 and said that Dom only woke a few times which he thinks was good?! Well he seems to take Dom's waking much more in his stride than I do . Maybe cause he has no trouble falling asleep immediately where as I sometimes lie there for near an hour (when Dom wakes again ) I actually feel like a rather bad mum for not being able to deal with this as well as OH is. But I guess some ppl deal better with sleeplessness than others? Anyway, we shall see how tonight goes. I should be well rested for it anyway thanks to my lovely OH
Haven't had time to read all your posts but will try to later when the babies are napping. Am making their milk atm. xxx

 

[Boo44]

I am here, thanks for asking. My Oh said the night was ok. We went to bed at 10.30 and Dom only woke and wanted feeding at 00:40 which means OH got to sleep a stretch till then. After that he fed the boys at 4 and then 7 and said that Dom only woke a few times which he thinks was good?! Well he seems to take Dom's waking much more in his stride than I do . Maybe cause he has no trouble falling asleep immediately where as I sometimes lie there for near an hour (when Dom wakes again ) I actually feel like a rather bad mum for not being able to deal with this as well as OH is. But I guess some ppl deal better with sleeplessness than others? Anyway, we shall see how tonight goes. I should be well rested for it anyway thanks to my lovely OH
Haven't had time to read all your posts but will try to later when the babies are napping. Am making their milk atm. xxx

Angel I could have written that! LO took an hour to settle after his 3am bottle last night which he has never ever done before in his life. I cried! OH just took it in his stride. I feel exactly the same as you

 

[Lulu1982]

Angel, before my OH got made redundant he worked a normal 9-5 job and he did every other night with Ava ... Every morning after he'd had her (we used to have a mattress in her room or we'd both be awake all night), he'd say it had been a good night, he thought shed only woken a few times, he wasn't sure what times she was up ... It was infuriating because I'm a real clock watcher and once I was up and had fed her I was then wide awake and couldn't get back to sleep!

It seemed like every morning he'd get up and seem bright and full of energy while I was staggering around like a zombie! Im sure some people just deal with it better than others ... I'm one of the others!!

 

[lisa1980]

Lulu, chocolala - yay!

Angel - My OH deals with sleep deprivation even worse than I do unfortunately so we're both useless. He gets SO grumpy if he hasn't slept properly that sometimes it was actually easier to just let him sleep and deal with it myself rather than put up with moody-pants all day Don't get me wrong though, I'm not exactly Little Miss Sunshine after a bad night.

I do think some people can handle the sleep deprivation better than others, although it's hard to really compare. I suppose it's like pain thresholds etc...some women don't find labour too bad whereas others find it horrendous (me!)

 

[firefly15]

All I can say about last night is and zzzzzzzzzz.

Got vomited on, wouldn't resettle after 9.30 wake up until going on midnight, then up at around 2.45 for a feed and awake at 7am. So the end of the night was ok but the rest of it was crap. He's also not himself today, he's had 2 tiny BFs since 7am this morning, small breakfast and spectacularly vomited his lunch back up. He's just slept for 1.5 hours so hoping he wants to feed now as my boobs are killing me!

Fab news that so many of you had good nights! Long may it continue!

 

[the why bird]

I'm a bit late to this party but I want to join in!

Our daughter's best nights sleep have four wakings. Some nights it's eight or so. She barely takes any milk during the day (she's always been like that) and makes up for it at night. One blessing is that she does usually go down without a fight in the evening. We will have a 'good' week where she goes 2-2.5hrs between feedings, followed by a couple of bad weeks where she sleeps the first 2 hours and then is up and down all night. She always used to go right to sleep after her night feeds but now it's 50/50 whether she will cry and need soothing. I was coping ok for a long time but it has got to the point where I can't do it anymore. I feel clumsy and grumpy and emotional all the time. I can't even get on top of the simplest jobs around the house, even though she's good during the day (well, not a good napper, but not too whingy) because whenever I'm not tending to her I sit here like a zombie. Husband does about one day a week (he works six long days so though he offers more, I don't want him to burn out) but it's not enough for me to regenerate. I still wake every hour because my body expects it.

Anyway! As of yesterday I am on a mission to fix this.

We're trying:
-getting some fresh air and bright sunlight every morning to help her body clock
-trying everything I can think of to get more milk in during the day (faster flow teats, a sippy cup for the novelty, feeding in the dark, feeding when she's sleepy)
-trying to get her attached to a lovey
-white noise for sleep and naps
-dream feeding so she's getting a late feed without reinforcing the wake-and-cry-for-milk pattern
-offering water for the rest of the night after the dream feed

Last night was my first go and it went way better than I thought! I had prepared myself for hysterics when I gave her water instead of milk - we kept discussing at what point it would be best just to let her feed because we don't want to starve her, and whether we could do it without undermining ourselves, and how we could do it without lots of crying. But she was fine! She had a couple of swallows of water and lost interest, but no crying. So she had a dream feed at 11 and then went until 3 (wooo!) but then was up wanting to play until 4.30. Still a huge improvement.

I just hope it wasn't a fluke! Even though she slept I was still awake listening for her, I hope I can get some sleep tonight.

 

[firefly15]

the why bird! for the sleep deprivation, we know exactly how you feel! Really good to hear that the first attempts at fixing the sleep were better than expected - that's very encouraging and all your ideas sound great. Hopefully it will change her eating habits so much more is done during the day and you can finally get some sleep

Lisa - glad to hear from the last couple of updates that the cc has been going ok and you've had more sleep Keeping everything crossed that it all just clicks into place and you can officially do a woohoo dance

chocolala - for the not fighting sleep! Boo for the poop night, but we have to look for the silver lining so I'll just focus on the not fighting sleep part!! Will be hoping to see an update with more of the same easy bedtime for you...

Tonight we had an average bedtime. Not bad by any means but had to resettle a couple of times before he finally stayed asleep. I have a feeling that tonight is going to be much the same as always as he hasn't been himself so I suspect that cuddles and boob will be required a fair bit. Really wishing this cold/bug thing would just b*gger off and leave him alone now

I'm now going to indulge in a bit of a proud mummy moment...LO stood completely unaided today - several times! He actually managed a good ten seconds or so each time, which felt like ages when watching him!

Hoping to hear some good updates ladies...come on sleepy babies!