Support Group failed IVF/ICSI IUI or any failed assisted conceptions 2014

[Lou32]

I'm going to try and stop thinking about the money, I really am. This is what we have to do, so we will have to find it somehow. We've been thinking of having a huge clear out for a while, so I'm thinking we could make a bit by selling stuff as I'm sure we have a lot. I'm wondering if it's too cold for a car boot sale before Christmas! It might just make a tiny dent, but at least I'll feel like I'm doing something. It might cover the skip load of antioxidant tablets I've got OH on. Another thing arrived in the post for him today that I've ordered - a drink claiming to be the world's most powerful antioxidant drink. It looks pretty nasty, but hey ho!
Feel a teensy bit better after reading up a bit on intralipids. So it's only a soya substance?! I didn't realise how worried I was about it until I read that and I felt instantly reassured. I don't know what I thought it was, but I was worried about them pumping it into me. Told my dad all about it and the steroids. He's concerned about me and worried I'll get ill. He also told me I'd probably get fat (thanks for that). At least it should only be temporary. Our cat went on steroids earlier this year and I swear he started to pile the pounds on. He's back to his slimline self now and he didn't even have to diet!
I took another day off work today as I felt crappy. Had a lot of crying last night after conversation about MIL and didn't really sleep. I took it as annual leave as I'd rather save my sick time for my next ICSI. How sad is that.

Helen - I didn't realise you were still in two minds about carrying on. Maybe you just need a bit of time to absorb things and you'll make the right decision in the end. You just have to go with your gut.

Hope everyone has a nice weekend.
xxx

PS - I've decided to come off the Metformin for a while. I've had a really bad flare up of my painful bladder condition and the only thing I can think it can be is the Met. Pretty disappointed, but if that's the cause then there's no way I can carry on with it as I'm in agony. Just hope my consultant was right and that it would have made no difference any way.

 

[_Nell]

Lou, I'm not too worried about the intralipids they were iriginally given to patients in hospital who were under norished or couldn't feed properly. It is just essentially a giant boost of food!
If it helps reassure you, I took steroids last cycle and after scaring myself silly reading the leaflet i didn't have any side effects at all.

As for the car boot - i hear ya. I couldn't face one but fleabay is my friend at the moment, we are selling a load of stuff, part ofr cash and part because i just feel better for clearing the crap out of life

Helen - I'm glad you're still thinking about trying again. I know it can't be an easy decision but I do agree with you, there's no reason why a 4th, 5th, 6th cycle etc can't work. someone has to be the vicitm of stats to not get pg in 3 rounds after all - it's just sucks it's us.

 

[Lolly1985]

Hello everyone

Ahhhhh just deleted my whole post Pressed the wrong button and the screen refreshed, sooooo annoying

Lou i'm sorry your results were tough to hear. I can't imagine how you are feeling right now as I chickened out from going down that path. I'm glad that you and Nell can support one another, although it goes without saying that I would rather neither of you had to contend with this. I'm so sorry that money is so tight. Like many have said, why is it so unfair that we have to fight, battle, pay, cry and struggle to what so many get without a second thought. But it goes to show that you are doing whatever it takes and you can look back no matter what and think that you tried your very best and no one can do more than that

MIL Who is anyone to judge when they will never ever have a clue about the situation and how you feel. The most important thing is you are DH standing together though and it sounds like you are fighting through this as a unit.

Hi Nell, you seem to be fountain of all knowledge on here! Like I said to Lou, it is nice to have the support of someone is the same position as you and get through it together. I hope that you are feeling positive, rooting for you

Helen Nice to hear you are maybe thinking of trying again. Braver woman than me, as I said to Lou, think all this has turned me slightly chicken! But you are right, who is to say how many cycles it will take to work. And when you look at natural conception, some of them take a good few months. Have been thinking of you, hope you are holding up ok

Good luck pk2! So sorry to hear of your BIL. What an awful thing to happen. I hope that your family can have some good news soon. If your nurse ever pulls her finger out

Hi Azreal and Wallie!! How are you ladies? Hope you have had nice weekends and the build up to christmas is a happy time. I know some people can get down but hoping you are alright

AFM... I was having a happy day today. was chirping on to DP how good it will be when we adopt, all the things to prepare for, all the happy times ahead. then I went on Facebook. How stupid of me His cousin has kind of announced her pregnancy. I suspected for a while with the whole 'went to see so and so's baby, we have decided we want one', 'missing my baby now she has gone to school, time for another'. Then follows the 'feeling sick', 'bored of feeling sick', 'feeling so tired', 'night in with coke for me' comments. Then today the 'I can eat a takeaway now I allowed to get fat' followed by the congrats comments So she hasn't confirmed but that makes it soooo much worst. To be honest I don't actually like her and only became friends with her so I could pinch a pic she had of me and DP at a family wedding. She whinges all the time when she doesn't know how lucky she is, forever preaches to me that I should have kids, time will run out blah blah, and posts about 10 times a day about every move her daughter makes and puts pictures up all the time. So conclusion made, she is being deleted!!!!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Wallie]

Thanks for your post.

I'm in a happy place just now, everything just seems nice and easy. I'm not sure if I want to get on the IVF roller coaster at all yet, although I will!

My OH eventually, after me going on about it so much, bought me a new car. I just picked it up on Saturday and I love it, and love him even more for letting me get it! Stupid weather and time of year to get it mind. We've had snow yesterday and again today. Wish it would sod off now!

We said there was nothing wrong with our cars so haven't changed them in years. Also because of ttc it's been on hold anyway. So since our chat with our fertility councillor we've been trying to not put things off just incase, so this is us moving on. Although I hope I have to change it again in about a years time!

 

[Lou32]

Wallie - Congrats on the new car! We've had snow here too in Yorkshire. I bloody hate the snow! Bet you can't wait until it's cleared so you can have a proper drive.
Lolly - Good on you for deleting her. I know pregnant women don't act like that intentionally to cause upset, but sometimes I think they could be more sensitive, less intrusive (what's it got to do with them when someone decides to start a family?!) and just shut up. And more than anything, you just have to delete or ignore people sometimes for self preservation.
I bumped into my friend today with her baby and she talked a lot about her kids and instead of asking how I was, she asked how my little sister was, who has a nine month old baby. It's like I've got nothing to contribute as I'm childless. I cried so much after as it felt like she was saying my life's not valid or something. I know she didn't mean to upset me, but people seem to think like that! I've lost count of how many people skip asking about me and just ask how my sister and nephew are. It's not even like he's just been born. It's just that people like to ask after other people's kids. I was once in the pub with friends and they were asking about each other's kids and they turned to me and asked how my cat was. Thankfully it was when we'd only just started TTC, so it didn't hurt as much as it would now. I think I'd probably burst into tears if they did that now!

Well, I'm off sick at the moment now as I have a bad case of f'ing cystitis (or a flare up of my painful bladder condition - neither me nor my GP really knows. All I know is it hurts like hell.) Can't sleep!

Take care everyone.
xxx

 

[_Nell]

Lolly - I would have delted her too - good for you! I'm not sure i'm the fountain of all knowledge but i am a keen researcher, I can't help it. It's my way of gleaning a little control i think, i may not be able to fix myself but i can at least try understand what's going on. Not helped by the fact I seem to be gathering an A-Z of fertility conditions as i go.

Lou - sorry you're in pain, so unfair to have that on top of everything else ((hugs))

Wallie - Yay for the new car - although I too hope you have to change it next year

AFM: Well I had been feeling unusually positive this last week. After seeing my new Dr (new clinic) I just sort of felt like she was taking charge and i could relax. DH and I have even been saying 'when we have children' which i never dare say. I sort of had this feeling of being relaxed and that the FET might just work.
Well I should have guessed a fall was coming......I sent my menstrual tissue to greece on my birthday last week......and my surprise 'gift' is that I have hidden chlamydia and mycoplasma. Urgh. I guess this explains my BFN's and thin lining. I knew it was possible, that's why i tested, but i'd tested negative for both on the regular swobs so i was kinda hopeful. Like Lou I don't really feel better for having an answer tbh because the kick in the gut is.......drumroll........more drugs! I'm the sort of person that wouldn't take a painkiller for a headache so this is all kind of getting silly now. A months course of super strong AB's for both me and DH and then a months wait and re-test. I'm not sure what this means for our FET but i guess logically it's pushed back.

And because nothing in fertility is ever straightforward i have to check my Dr actually 'believes' in this aspect of immunes and will prescribe the meds......if not i need to go to a 3rd Dr. I officially have more Dr.s than non-pregnant friends LOL.

 

[Lou32]

Hi Nell - Is it Doxycyclene that they prescribe for chlamydia and mycoplasma? I was wondering whether to do this test too, but I actually saw a doc in Harley Street last year (I was desperate!) over my interstitial cystitis and although the tests came back negative for ureaplasma/mycoplasma and chlamydia, he put me and OH on a month long course of Doxycyline just in case because he said they didn't always show up in pee tests. I figured that if we've both had the A/Bs anyway, it might not be worth doing the hidden C test.
There is a school of thought that mycoplasma/ureaplasma could be the root of IC, so you never know, you might get cured of that too.
Do you mind me asking how much the test was? I'm still in two minds whether to do it.
When do you think you'll do your FET now?

We had a follow up with our NHS clinic today and the consultant seemed overwhelmed by our situation now, what with the immune protocol and OH's damaged sperm. Apparently I'm the only one who's ever been recommended intralipids from this satellite clinic.
I'm also getting mixed messages about the TESE - fresh or frozen. Both Calderdale and Care are saying frozen makes it easier (I guess it means OH wouldn't need the general anaesthetic and surgery on my egg collection day) but I've read fresh is better. When I asked our consultant if fresh was better, he just said testicular sperm is bad quality anyway. But the reason we're getting testicular sperm is in the hope it will be better! Aaaaaargh! It's all so confusing, and I really don't want to put OH through this surgery if it doesn't work. Really don't know what to do.
Our Nhs clinic did agree for OH to see a urologist so we can have peace of mind over whether something obviously wrong with him, such as a varicocele. Thing is, we have to wait until the end of Jan, it's looking like we'll have to put this next cycle off until at least March now, which is frustrating. More months of this agonising limbo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[_Nell]

Oh Lou, I'm sorry you've had your cycle pushed back too.

I don't know much about TESE, is it a guaranteed procedure to get the sperm? That would be my concern - ie is there a risk if you do it on EC day that there'll be no sperm/failed procedure, is that a benefit of doing it beforehand and freezing?

I don't know when our FET will get pushed back to tbh, I suppose it depends on if we clear the bug first round of AB's (some people have to repeat the AB's). It's not just doxy no, i've been reading up and it's a months course of a mix of AB's - I had taken doxy and azrithmocyn (sp?) before too so thought i'd be ok. I also had prophylaxis AB's for 3months for my repeat UTI's.....yet still I have this! I have a consult booked for Thursday so hopefully things will be clearer then.
I organised the test direct with the lab in Greece, it's 90Euros a test and i had all 3, chlamydia, ureaplasma and mycoplasma so 270euros.

Are the NHS doing anything for you immunes wise at all (asides DH's urologist). I'm finding regular provate fertility Dr.s don't 'believe' let alone nhs. I'm not sure what to think tbh, I just know i'm willing to believe enough to try all the extra meds.

 

[Lou32]

Oh Lou, I'm sorry you've had your cycle pushed back too.

I don't know much about TESE, is it a guaranteed procedure to get the sperm? That would be my concern - ie is there a risk if you do it on EC day that there'll be no sperm/failed procedure, is that a benefit of doing it beforehand and freezing?

I don't know when our FET will get pushed back to tbh, I suppose it depends on if we clear the bug first round of AB's (some people have to repeat the AB's). It's not just doxy no, i've been reading up and it's a months course of a mix of AB's - I had taken doxy and azrithmocyn (sp?) before too so thought i'd be ok. I also had prophylaxis AB's for 3months for my repeat UTI's.....yet still I have this! I have a consult booked for Thursday so hopefully things will be clearer then.
I organised the test direct with the lab in Greece, it's 90Euros a test and i had all 3, chlamydia, ureaplasma and mycoplasma so 270euros.

Are the NHS doing anything for you immunes wise at all (asides DH's urologist). I'm finding regular provate fertility Dr.s don't 'believe' let alone nhs. I'm not sure what to think tbh, I just know i'm willing to believe enough to try all the extra meds.

Well our Nhs consultant said that's why they prefer to do TESE beforehand and freeze, in case they don't find anything on EC day. But I spoke to Care and pointed out that he does produce plenty of sperm providing a sample the 'normal' way, as he has normal numbers, so is this likely? I also asked if there was a slight chance of being left with nothing, could he produce a sample the normal way before going for his TESE. It's a gamble, but everything I read is that fresh is better.

I'm seriously tempted to get this hidden c test done. I've no idea where I'll find the money, but I'm already skint, so what's another couple of hundred (not sure what it is in £ but presume it's around £250 ish?) This was a concern of mine with all the UTIs, but I suppose I thought the Doxy would clear anything...

Nope, NHS not supporting the immune treatment other than giving me a prescription. Our consultant said I need to get the suggested protocol from Care and he'll do me a prescription. I can get the usual meds from the hospital pharmacy really cheap, but I will have to source the immune stuff myself. Care have to organise the intralipids. He basically said he'd already told us his thoughts on it, which were that it's a waste of time and money, but that it's up to us if we want to go ahead. He was shocked we were going ahead with TESE too and asked if we were sure we wanted to spend so much. Obviously we're not over the bloody moon, but I don't see what choice we have?! It's this or donor sperm, and we're not ready for that, if ever.

By the way, got a letter from Care today and it gives my results in full. It says I have: borderline high tumour-necrosis facor alpha level (this came in the normal range, but was to the top end), increased level of CD 56, 19 and 5 NK cells and HLA antigens on the 05 locus. I've absolutely NO idea what this means!

I know what you mean about not knowing what to think with the immune stuff. I really think it's OH's sperm letting us down tbh and I still can't help but think that if we didn't have that issue, I'd have baby now But even if there's a chance the immunes could help, it's worth doing right?

So will your consutant prescribe the A/Bs for the infection or your GP? And does the clinic tell you what you should be prescribed along with your result?
I'm sorry to hear this came at a time when you were feeling positive. At least it could be the answer you're looking for. x

 

[_Nell]

At least it could be the answer you're looking for. x

I know, you're right. I'm just upset at the wait. My head says I have to do it properly, clear the infection, re-test to see a negative, let my lining improve, then FET. My heart says, heck you have a fair few frosties just take the AB's, go straight into the FET with the other extra meds and cross your fingers. We're meant to be moving overseas next year and I won't want to go not pg if i still have frosties here left to try, it just won't happen.

No the lab don't send suggested AB protocol. My clinic don't 'believe' in hidden chlamydia (they know i've been tested though), I'm so tempted to go along with them and just forget it but then what was the point of testing if i don't treat it?! Dr G at the london fertility academy (well known for immunes) will hopefully write me a script based on my test results. It's a bit complicated dealing with more than 1 clinic though.

TnF alfa I've heard of, that can be linked to endo (and other things i'm sure, it's just something i came accross when i was researching about my endo). The NK's i've heard of but 'HLA antigens on the 05 locus' is new to me. There are so many tests it's mindblowing tbh.

I think immunes are worth it, yes. Will they be enough for you or me? I don't know but i really do think they're worth trying....I'm excited to try but nervous that it could still not be a 1 cycle =bfp it's like starting over it feels.

 

[_Nell]

Me again Does anyone see those signature tickers, that say 22 cycles, £125 on HPT's, OPK's and other tests etc and just think 'whoah i wish, i'm in another league on that one'.

I keep a running total, excluding hpt's, OPK's, pre seed, soft cups etc (they are now as regulr a purchasel as bread and milk and therefore not recorded). This running total doesn't even include this weeks array of test and consults yet is already over £11000......I feel like putting a ticker up just to share that. It might be the only thing i'll win at in this TTC game

 

[Wallie]

Oh ladies, I'm lost with all these tests you've are having/had. I thought about the Hidden C test too but with no-one recognising it I thought wots the point. I have only heard of a few doing the test but each one is positive. How reliable is this test really?

Anyway, I've read all your posts and don't understand things really and I hope to hell I don't have to, I think I'm not taking them in really to protect myself as no doubt I will have everything you have too... but I just don't want to know it yet.

 

[Lou32]

I don't know Wallie - I've wondered about how reliable the hidden c test is too. I just don't know whether to do it or not, but I'm starting to wonder if I have one of these things as they can cause the raised NK cells...
With the immune tests we've had. We went to see the consultant at Care as we didn't know what to do next and he pretty much talked us into having them as he said at least we might get some answers. It was the first time we'd had some proper advice rather than doctors saying they don't know why it isn't working and they don't know what we should do next, so we jumped in and followed his advice. I don't feel like doctors always advise all that well, but maybe that's just our docs.

 

[angiemon]

Ive jut been reading through the last few pages and my mind is blowing also!! We have talked about the immune tests but my doctor wouldn't recommend them but now we have finished with the nhs, they may recommend it.....its all soooooooooooo confusing and its so difficult to know what to do..
hopefully Lou and Nell, the information you have found now will help but it must be so difficult to know when to stop testing and have the treatments.
Is there no end to all this??

 

[angiemon]

Hi everyone,
I'm so sorry to hear your news Angie. When I read the line that you'd got a BFP I was so happy for you, and I can't believe it was so cruel to end. It's just not fair. I can't put it any plainer than that.
As for me - our results were not good. My worst fear was realised, as the sperm DNA fragmentation came back at 70%. According to the masses of information online, anything above 30% is seriously bad. The doctor said OH could either go on a high antioxidant regime and retest before our next go, they could try surgically removing the sperm (as there's some research to suggest it might improve things) or we could use donor sperm. OH is understandably not keen on option 2 or 3. He said one other possibility would be trying an experiment where he ejaculates 7 days in a row then leaves it two days (rest!) before giving the ICSI sample. This may reduce the dna damage. I'm seriously doubting this would be enough.
Neither of us want to use donor sperm yet, so OH is settled on the 7-day thing. Surgical sperm retrieval is £1,500!!! I'd rather go for this, but we're already completely wiped out financially. It's an awful awful thing to decide.
On top of this, they found problems with the immune tests. I have some raised natural killer cells and I don't have something which protects my embryo from the NK cells (can't remember what he called it). There was something else which I can't quite remember, but they say I need intralipids (this is the bloody drip which costs £400 a go), steroids, clexane and estrogen.
This on top of the fact that I've already asked for the progesterone bum injections this time as I don't think cyclogest works for me.
I honestly can't think straight. I could go through all this immune treatment and it still fail because the sperm is so badly damaged.
OH is at work at the moment (I took the day off. No way I could face work today) and I think we're going to have to discuss it more.
I can't believe it's come to this. It was bad enough having to do IVF, but it feels like the situation is getting worse as times goes on. I feel numb.
I suppose this is what you get for doing more tests and asking the question. Sometimes you get the answer you don't want

Im so sorry Lou that you have had to deal with all of this. As if doing IVF/ICSI isn't bad enough. Im thinking that we'll be following you down this road too but i think my Oh thinks his sperm is ok now because we have fertilisation. Im worried about what our FS will recommend in our follow up.
Im thinking of you
Thanks for feeling happy for me, I know its not easy to be happy when you find out someone else is pregnant... xx

 

[_Nell]

Angie / Wallie,
I feel much the same as you re the hidden c tbh. I had read about it a while back and had a firm view that as it was only really done by a couple of clinics and there were no firm studies to support it I wouldn't bother.
But then I do see women getting pg after testing and treating for it (although they likely have extra meds too for the ivf cycle).

The reason i went for it is because i have a history of repeat UTI many which have often shown no infection at all in my urine. I get no burning pee with them just a sore inflamed feeling abdomen. Then since TTC i have spotted brown gunk for about a week before my period every single cycle. Lastly, despite plenty of estrogen my lining has been very thin, just 6 or 7 mm on all 3 IVF's. All 3 of those could be linked to uterine infections so i felt it was worth a shot testing, secretly hoping to get peace of mind from a negative. One more thing ruled out in trying to solve my lining problem....but then it was positive.
I'll take the AB's and just hope.
One thing I would say though is it's the first STD i've ever had and I've always been very careful, DH and I were both tested before we started having unprotected sex and have been married 7yrs, so where has this come from if it is there?!

My clinic Dr doesn't really accept the tests and I am very tempted to agree with her logic, but OTOH it's just a course of AB's to 'fix' whatever it is.

If i hadn't had this bleeding and stupid thin lining i wouldn't have bothered.

 

[Lou32]

Angie / Wallie,
I feel much the same as you re the hidden c tbh. I had read about it a while back and had a firm view that as it was only really done by a couple of clinics and there were no firm studies to support it I wouldn't bother.
But then I do see women getting pg after testing and treating for it (although they likely have extra meds too for the ivf cycle).

The reason i went for it is because i have a history of repeat UTI many which have often shown no infection at all in my urine. I get no burning pee with them just a sore inflamed feeling abdomen. Then since TTC i have spotted brown gunk for about a week before my period every single cycle. Lastly, despite plenty of estrogen my lining has been very thin, just 6 or 7 mm on all 3 IVF's. All 3 of those could be linked to uterine infections so i felt it was worth a shot testing, secretly hoping to get peace of mind from a negative. One more thing ruled out in trying to solve my lining problem....but then it was positive.
I'll take the AB's and just hope.
One thing I would say though is it's the first STD i've ever had and I've always been very careful, DH and I were both tested before we started having unprotected sex and have been married 7yrs, so where has this come from if it is there?!

My clinic Dr doesn't really accept the tests and I am very tempted to agree with her logic, but OTOH it's just a course of AB's to 'fix' whatever it is.

If i hadn't had this bleeding and stupid thin lining i wouldn't have bothered.

Nell - this is EXACTLY how my IC started. UTI after UTI, but the tests always came back negative, despite the fact the A/Bs always worked. It got to the point where my GP refused A/Bs because she said there was no infection and I left the surgery in pain and in tears. The UTI pain stayed for a year. It was the worst year of my life - living with that pain and having to put IVF on hold. That's why I went to see Dr Lim in London who suspected ureaplasma, although his tests didn't pick it up. His Doxycycline helped and I've been around 90% pain free since. I'd convinced myself that if I had any kind of infection then the Doxy would have zapped it (I was on it quite a long time, as was my OH). I think I'm still going to do this test though, just because of my background of UTIs.
I'd agree with Nell though - unless you have solid reason to do it, I wouldn't bother either.
I did do a bit of reading up on it yesterday though and there were a couple of women who said they'd tested positive and had still got pregnant and had healthy babies. Maybe it depends on the degree of infection.
I think the decision to do further tests depends on your individual circumstances...We did the sperm test because OH's sperm is bad quality to start, so we wanted to know the chances of it working at all.
As for the immunes, there was a couple of reasons which swung it for me. Firstly, I always get terrible pains in my uterus after ET, which the doctor said could be a sign of immune activity (it also could just be the hormones!) and the fact I'd had so many UTIs/antibiotics the past three years and I wondered if it had affected my immune system.
Don't worry about not doing tests though. Some docs will prescribe some of the medication empirically, which is what I'm thinking might have been the best way for us (would have saved us a hell of a lot of money!)

 

[Wallie]

Well now that IVF is in close reach again, I've started to feel upset and weepy. I've been doing so well these last few weeks but since last Thursday I've cried nearly every day. I really don't want to go through it all again and it doesn't work! It's so upsetting as you have all these hopes and dreams and now I can't believe it will ever work. Why do people get this so easy and I've had to struggle for 4+ years, I just don't get it....

 

[Lolly1985]

Wallie, so sorry that it is all getting a bit overwhelming for you. I can totally empathise with you. DP could never understand why every time we drew near to something - an appointment, blood work, treatment, cycling - I would get upset again. I think he always thought waiting was the hardest. And while in a way it is, and during that wait we feel we should be being proactive, as soon as it becomes really 'real' again the fear kicks in. Its all the what ifs, and all you can do is try your best to fight on. And you will because you have to. But it just plain sucks at the same time. Its so unfair, I say that all the bloody time, but it just is, there is no other way to describe it. Oh so much I pray all this works out for all of us. Everyone fights on, and everyone here is so much stronger than they even realise

That goes for all of you, and special love to to Lou, Angie, Nell and Azreal also. You are all special ladies, don't forget

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Wallie]

Wallie, so sorry that it is all getting a bit overwhelming for you. I can totally empathise with you. DP could never understand why every time we drew near to something - an appointment, blood work, treatment, cycling - I would get upset again. I think he always thought waiting was the hardest. And while in a way it is, and during that wait we feel we should be being proactive, as soon as it becomes really 'real' again the fear kicks in. Its all the what ifs, and all you can do is try your best to fight on. And you will because you have to. But it just plain sucks at the same time. Its so unfair, I say that all the bloody time, but it just is, there is no other way to describe it. Oh so much I pray all this works out for all of us. Everyone fights on, and everyone here is so much stronger than they even realise

That goes for all of you, and special love to to Lou, Angie, Nell and Azreal also. You are all special ladies, don't forget

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks Lolly, I just seem to get upset at anything now, I just can't believe I'm like this. I've been so content about the wait and getting on with life and i just can't help the way I feel.

I suppose I'm more scare this time too, since it will be my last try. I just so want it to work as I don't want to be childless and never go through pregnancy. It's all so cruel.