The Really Useful TCM Thread

[CaliDreaming]

I had an acu appointment today. I'm 12 dpo. Dr. Liu started off with the nutrition testing. The good news is that my ovaries responded well to the supplements and they went from being a 5 or 6 in functioning to a 10. The bad news is that my adrenal glands did not improve as much. She last time they were a 5 or 6, and today they had only gone up to a 7. My thyroid glands also still need work. She thinks I have symptoms of hyperthyroidism. According to the muscle test, my right adrenal gland is good, but the left one is the one that needs help. Sounds plausible, but I'm still in wait and see mode on whether I trust this method.

The acupuncture went well and was very relaxing. The points she uses are so different. I got two in my left thumb, one in my left ring finger, one or two in my right middle finer, the scalp needles, the usual four in my shins, and two in the middle of my feet. I got the electrodes on my shins. I felt a little more relaxed at this session than I have after the others.

Any hope I had that I might have a BFP this time went out of the window as we were setting my next appointment. Dr. Liu said that she wanted to set it for after my cycle started, like on CD3 or later to give me a chance to rest. So I left the appointment feeling a little bummed out. She didn't do tongue analysis or anything, but it seemed like it was just a foregone conclusion that I had not conceived. I guess I'm still in bad shape.

 

[FireBaby]

Hey Cali,

Don't worry - just keep at it. The acu will work. You just have to keep at it. I went to my 6th appointment on Monday and the acu said that my body had responded to the treatments really well and I now have textbook perfect fertility.

DH is another story however and the sad thing is he refuses to go to a doctor/acu/FS so I have to resort to just slipping maca powder into his morning protein shake.

Anyway the acu could not have had a more dismal diagnosis the first time I went in there. I had almost non-exisitent spleen chi and a weak LH stage, she said in that state I would almost certainly have a m/c even if I was able to concieve. So I'd give it at least 8 treatments to see an improvement. The fact that you got a great improvement the first time is super encouraging.

Also I think what the acu tells us is one thing, and they can be wrong too. I think the cool thing about getting acu is it also seems to help us get closer to our 'natural' state where we have a better sense of what feels good/what we need/our own intuition etc. That is the most important thing to be able to hone into

 

[Sizzles]

Sorry you're bummed Cali! Still, it's early days with this new acu - try to give it time. It does make me wonder/worry though about the points you mentioned as very few of them are points my acu uses. I guess everyone's different though - practitioners and patients.

I had my hsg on Tuesday and I have acu tomorrow, when I should be pre-ov (CD9 today and would expect to ov on Monday). I am slightly concerned that I may not ov this month, as I've read forums where ladies have experienced this after hsg. Ah well, I guess I'll have to put my faith in next month if that's the case. TMI: I'm still experiencing some 'spotting' from the hsg, and I'm just hoping that it's where the dye has flushed everything out; my tubes were 'clear' but perhaps some of this crud that's coming out may have been superficially blocking the little spermies??
OH told me last night that he thought he was coming down with something, so I'm really hoping that he's ok as I want to start dtd today or tomorrow (wanted to give myself time to get the dye out of my system). That sounds so selfish when I read it back!

 

[CaliDreaming]

Well, my temp dropped a little today and I am feeling AF type cramps, so I guess it was right for my acu to conclude it wasn't gonig to happen.

Hey Cali,

Don't worry - just keep at it. The acu will work. You just have to keep at it. I went to my 6th appointment on Monday and the acu said that my body had responded to the treatments really well and I now have textbook perfect fertility.

DH is another story however and the sad thing is he refuses to go to a doctor/acu/FS so I have to resort to just slipping maca powder into his morning protein shake.

Anyway the acu could not have had a more dismal diagnosis the first time I went in there. I had almost non-exisitent spleen chi and a weak LH stage, she said in that state I would almost certainly have a m/c even if I was able to concieve. So I'd give it at least 8 treatments to see an improvement. The fact that you got a great improvement the first time is super encouraging.

Also I think what the acu tells us is one thing, and they can be wrong too. I think the cool thing about getting acu is it also seems to help us get closer to our 'natural' state where we have a better sense of what feels good/what we need/our own intuition etc. That is the most important thing to be able to hone into

Thanks. I'm going to stick with this for the long haul. It's just so frustrating because I feel I have tried everything and nothing has happened. I'm really, really, really looking forward to my FS appointment in a couple of weeks.

It must be really frustrating that your dh is not cooperating after all of the work you've done. I believe he will come around soon.

Sorry you're bummed Cali! Still, it's early days with this new acu - try to give it time. It does make me wonder/worry though about the points you mentioned as very few of them are points my acu uses. I guess everyone's different though - practitioners and patients.

I had my hsg on Tuesday and I have acu tomorrow, when I should be pre-ov (CD9 today and would expect to ov on Monday). I am slightly concerned that I may not ov this month, as I've read forums where ladies have experienced this after hsg. Ah well, I guess I'll have to put my faith in next month if that's the case. TMI: I'm still experiencing some 'spotting' from the hsg, and I'm just hoping that it's where the dye has flushed everything out; my tubes were 'clear' but perhaps some of this crud that's coming out may have been superficially blocking the little spermies??
OH told me last night that he thought he was coming down with something, so I'm really hoping that he's ok as I want to start dtd today or tomorrow (wanted to give myself time to get the dye out of my system). That sounds so selfish when I read it back!

Yeah, my acu doesn't use many of the points that my old one used, which are the ones listed in Randine Lewis' book. The only ones that she's used that are in that book are the ones along the panty lines, the shins and the feet. I don't know what the deal is with the other ones!

I know you were relieved to find your tubes are clear! I hope you experience that super fertility a lot of ladies get after an HSG. I wonder what the crud is and where it comes from???

 

[Sizzles]

Session 9

So yesterday I had acu having not had it for 2 weeks. In the time since my last session I had my period and my hsg, so quite eventful. It put me in a good place for this session though as I was pre-ov (TMI but got good ewcm this morning!) and the spotting from the hsg had finally stopped.

She checked my tongue and said nothing. She felt my abdomen and said nothing, but she did use moxa. She checked my pulses before and after and said nothing. Maybe just not chatty yesterday!

She said she was opening up my conception vessel, so these are the points I can remember: 3 in my right ear, 5 in my tummy, 1 in the top of my scalp, 1 on my forehead, 1 on the inner side of my wrist and 1 in the fleshy bit on the back of your hand, between thumb and forefinger (this was on both hands), 1 onthe inside of each knee, 1 on the inside of each shin and 1 near each of my ankles. I think I also had 1 in each foot and I counted up 19 or 20 so I must've missed some.

She said she'd use moxa on my tummy, but otherwise didn't comment. However, I'd felt my tum just before and it did feel slightly cooler in the lower part and obviously that's what the moxa's for so I guess she was treating my 'cold uterus'. So she set the moxa burning and sat writing up notes. After not very long I felt like the moxa was burning, but just tried to go with it, but after a couple of minutes or so I was sure it wasn't right, so I said something. She looked and said they looked fine but one was making my skin a bit pink so she put some paper on the skin, explaining that the moxa was closer to my skin than sometimes (needle angles I guess). Any way, the side she'd 'protected' was the opposite side to the one I could feel. it was really uncomfortable but not unbearable, and since she'd checked them I figured I'd just try to ignore it. However, I was convinced - completely convinced - that when time was up I was going to look down and either find my skin incredibly pink, or actually find a burn blister - that's how hot it had felt. So any way, when the time was up, she didn't say anything when she removed the needles (I'd envisaged her exclaiming and finding actually the moxa had burnt me!) and when I looked, there was absolutely nothing there - not even a little bit pink! I dunno, it must have either been a stinging sensation from that particular needle or something to do with the 'energies' or something. Weird! Generally the needles were more painful this time; most note-worthy are the inner shins and my inner wrist (where I still have a mark akin to a bite.)

I have sessions booked for the next 2 Fridays and am sincerely hoping that the second one finds me well and truly up the duff as a result of my 'clear out', but I'm not naive enough to pin all my hopes (just most of them!) on this. Moving into next cycle I may cut down to fortnightly sessions as standard, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

By the way, acu lady thinks the spotting was a positive thing as it's clearing out the old stuff which shouldn't be there. But then I did put that spin on it when I told her about it, so hard to know whether she was just agreeing with me or whether she'd have reached that conclusion on her own.

 

[FireBaby]

Hi Sizzles! Interesting experience with the moxa. I have had that sensation before of being burnt with moxa on my back, but the problem was I really was being burnt by it! And I got a blister/skin peeling afterwards....that was a long time ago.
Yesterday I found a community acupuncture center not that far from my place and went in for a session - the acu there knew my current acu and said that she is a really good acu, but definitely expensive, and while he can do all the same points and treatments as her, he can't provide me with the same herbs she does.
For $25 vs $110 that I usually pay for the treatment before the herbs it was definitely a great experience, I'll be back there in a heartbeat.
I even booked an appointment for DH as I am convinced it will help him. However after I told him I had done so we had a fight, he says he doesn't 'believe' in acu and why would I want to 'force' him to do something he didn't want to do (didn't know he felt so strongly against it) and I ended up waking up stressed in the middle of the night and sleeping the rest out on the couch woke up this morning with a sore back!

BTW this is my 6th treatment of acupuncture for fertility and the second month I have been on herbs everyday.

 

[CaliDreaming]

Sizzles, that is so interesting about the moxa. I would have been freaked out though. I hope the hsg works and you get your bfp.

Firebaby, that's so disappointing that your hubby isn't on board with acu. Maybe he'll come around soon.

 

[Sizzles]

Sizzles, that is so interesting about the moxa. I would have been freaked out though. I hope the hsg works and you get your bfp.

It was so weird! I was convinced it was burning me!

Not sure it'll be a bfp this month. I just can't be bothered! I thought with the renewed hope after the hsg I'd be raring to go, but I think after 2.5 years I've hit the doldrums! We dtd this morning for the first time this cycle (cd12 today) and still no peak on cbfm, which I guess is good. But I feel like we 'ought to' dtd tonight again (although keep fighting with myself over whether there would be enough after less than 12 hours of 'build-up' time) then again for the next couple of days until the cbfm has shown 2 peak days. But my heart just isn't in it! OH tried to instigate sex last night, but I was narked with him about something so ignored him and now we've just had an argument about something completely unrelated. Aaargh! I'm not usually at a low at this point in my cycle; I need to get a grip! Someone slap me!

Firebaby, when I first went to my acu lady she mentioned about acu for OHs and I said there would be no chance of my OH coming along! She completely understood! He's fine with me going, but has asked in the last couple of days if I'm continuing to go as the cost mounts up, but I know there's no way he'd go. Besides, his SAs have been fine, so from that point of view there's no point. Sorry your OH was so against it though; it does make it disheartening.

 

[CaliDreaming]

Sizzles, that is so interesting about the moxa. I would have been freaked out though. I hope the hsg works and you get your bfp.

It was so weird! I was convinced it was burning me!

Not sure it'll be a bfp this month. I just can't be bothered! I thought with the renewed hope after the hsg I'd be raring to go, but I think after 2.5 years I've hit the doldrums! We dtd this morning for the first time this cycle (cd12 today) and still no peak on cbfm, which I guess is good. But I feel like we 'ought to' dtd tonight again (although keep fighting with myself over whether there would be enough after less than 12 hours of 'build-up' time) then again for the next couple of days until the cbfm has shown 2 peak days. But my heart just isn't in it! OH tried to instigate sex last night, but I was narked with him about something so ignored him and now we've just had an argument about something completely unrelated. Aaargh! I'm not usually at a low at this point in my cycle; I need to get a grip! Someone slap me!

Firebaby, when I first went to my acu lady she mentioned about acu for OHs and I said there would be no chance of my OH coming along! She completely understood! He's fine with me going, but has asked in the last couple of days if I'm continuing to go as the cost mounts up, but I know there's no way he'd go. Besides, his SAs have been fine, so from that point of view there's no point. Sorry your OH was so against it though; it does make it disheartening.

Well it's impressive that it's taken you 2.5 years to hit the doldrums. I've been there for months. My libido is in the toilet ever since we started TTC. Really ever since I had dd. I thought that was normal but maybe it's a sign of a hormonal imbalance.

I don't see how acu would help your hubby either TTCwise if his counts are fine.

 

[FireBaby]

So I've started with a new thing - planning our BD times beforehand - like making appointments with DH several days before so he knows...I was finding it stressful to try to plan and be 'spontaneous' so now we have our BD appointments...not spontaneous at all but at least it takes out the 'are we going to do it or not' and it gives DH some time to plan stuff eg. football matches around it - the first time it didn't work - we were in bed and DH couldn't make it work, but I knew I wasn't Ov so I just let it go and it was kind of funny.
I've booked two sessions of acu this week - yes kind of extreme I know- but with this community acu its actually affordable and I wanted to get in two sessions before I Ov this month. We are getting a hot tub installed and I'm worried DH is going to bake his spermies, so I've made a rule that it's not going to be on higher than 99degrees....

 

[Jen1802]

Anytime I felt the needles hurting I always felt like it almost like a nerve pain, like a little electric shock almost but I don't think I ever felt it burning as such. I'd still take it as a positive though, means it must have really been working on something! Its so interesting how these little needles can produce such a strong reaction in our bodies to bring it back into harmony. XOX

 

[CaliDreaming]

So I've started with a new thing - planning our BD times beforehand - like making appointments with DH several days before so he knows...I was finding it stressful to try to plan and be 'spontaneous' so now we have our BD appointments...not spontaneous at all but at least it takes out the 'are we going to do it or not' and it gives DH some time to plan stuff eg. football matches around it - the first time it didn't work - we were in bed and DH couldn't make it work, but I knew I wasn't Ov so I just let it go and it was kind of funny.
I've booked two sessions of acu this week - yes kind of extreme I know- but with this community acu its actually affordable and I wanted to get in two sessions before I Ov this month. We are getting a hot tub installed and I'm worried DH is going to bake his spermies, so I've made a rule that it's not going to be on higher than 99degrees....

TTC sex can be sooooo unappealing. I never understood this until I started TTC myself. Poor hubby though. I bet he is not gong to leave you alone for now on so he can redeem himself.

You are sooo lucky to have access to community acu! Have fun in the hot tub! That might be a good way to set the mood.

 

[CaliDreaming]

I went to see Dr. Liu today. She started off with the weird nutrition/muscle testing thing. She concluded that my adrenal glands are now functioning at a 10, but that my thyroid is the holdup.

She clarified that when she says that my organs have improved from a 7 to a 10, it doesn't mean that that organ is "cured", but only that she has identified the nutritional support that organ needs and that after a few months of supplements, the organ should be able to function well without the extra nutritional support. I'm glad she gave me a more thorough explanation. I'm sure she saw the quizzical look on my face.

On the thyroid, she said that she was having difficulty finding out what why it was hyperthyroid and what needed to be done. I also asked her if it is possible for a woman to have picture perfect regular cycles but still have major hormonal imbalances. She said "yes" without hesitation and explained that that was what she meant when she told me that there was a "hidden" issue behind my infertility when she first did the nutrition testing. It is something that is not causing overt symptoms now, but could later on. I guess it is a subclinical disorder or something.

I'm still not quite clear about the difficulty she was having, but it made enough sense to keep me from totally bailing on the whole program. I do have a lot of symptoms of being hyperthyroid, and my mother also had thyroid issues too, so I willing to suspend my judgment on this. I know one of the main signs of hyperthyroidism is having difficulty putting on weight. I've always had a massive appetite and while I'm not naturally thin, based on what I eat I should weigh 500 lbs. That being said, if I go to the FS and it turns out that my thyroid and all my other hormones are at textbook optimal levels I will be one irate woman!

Anyway, Dr. Liu decided to proceed with my acu because she still could not find the issue with the thyroid. This time she used some of the points my old acu used. I got the four on the shins and the needles in the head that she usually uses. This time I also got two on the back of my hand in between the web of the index finger and thumb and one on the tops of my feet a little bit away from the web between my big toe and second toe. I also got two on the inner side of my left thumb and one in the very edge of my ear. Dr. Liu uses points sometimes that I have never heard of any other acu using, lol.

Dr. Liu wants to see me twice before I ovulate, so I will need to see her again on Friday and once next week before I O. Fortunately I have discovered that my insurance may cover a lot of this because of the way Dr. Liu codes it.

I do see some improvements in my tongue after taking these supplements and they aren't making me so nauseous anymore.

Another big improvement that I've felt, and this one may be way TMI...but for last night when bd'ing for the first time in many months I experienced that "other" O very strongly and foreplay actually got me aroused. My libido has been in the cellar for months, but last night I felt myself getting some mojo back.

 

[Sizzles]

Yay for getting your mojo back!

 

[Sizzles]

Session 10 (wow! That means I've spent LOADS on acu!)

I had a pleasant and quite relaxing acu session today (following last week where I stressed that the moxa was burning me!) and acu lady was pretty positive.

She checked my tongue and said it was looking much healthier. When I probed her about how it looked healthier she told me the colour was generally better and the redness at the front (linked to emotions) had gone. Also something to do with a coating that had previously been there had gone.
She felt my pulses and seemed to spend a while over one of them. She then did the needle bit. She put 2 in my back this time, which is a first! When I asked what they were for she said they were in relation to my kidneys and that sometimes something in the pulse is just right for using these points (which is why she'd spent a while on the pulses).

So, 2 in my back (1 either side), 2 in my right ear (upper and lower), 1 in the top of my scalp and 1 in the forehead as has become usual. I then had 2 on my inner right wrist and 1 on the left, 3 in my abdomen (I think it was 3 - could've been 4; I can never sit up to look as the strain in the muscles to do that makes the needles hurt!) then a few in various points down my legs and on my feet. I think I counted 20 needles when they were removed.

When she felt my pulses again she seemed pleased and said they'd improved. She also burnt moxa on my abdomen again, although she hadn't felt my abdomen first which she sometimes does.

None of the needles were too painful this time, although a few hurt 'on entry' - I really don't like that bit and find the tummy ones the worst! I was able to lay back and relax for the whole time and have felt quite positive about things. That's not to say I think 'this is it' this month, but I generally just feel ok about things.

4dpo today and due to see her again next week when I'll be 11dpo.

 

[fitzy79]

Cali, yay for the mojo being back!!

Sizzles, I'm glad you were able to relax during the session. I found that when I started acu I had a permanent coating on my tongue and it was always quite pale. The treatment plan gradually improved things and the coating disappeared so I'm glad to see that your sessions appear to be working!!

 

[CaliDreaming]

Session 10 (wow! That means I've spent LOADS on acu!)

I had a pleasant and quite relaxing acu session today (following last week where I stressed that the moxa was burning me!) and acu lady was pretty positive.

She checked my tongue and said it was looking much healthier. When I probed her about how it looked healthier she told me the colour was generally better and the redness at the front (linked to emotions) had gone. Also something to do with a coating that had previously been there had gone.
She felt my pulses and seemed to spend a while over one of them. She then did the needle bit. She put 2 in my back this time, which is a first! When I asked what they were for she said they were in relation to my kidneys and that sometimes something in the pulse is just right for using these points (which is why she'd spent a while on the pulses).

So, 2 in my back (1 either side), 2 in my right ear (upper and lower), 1 in the top of my scalp and 1 in the forehead as has become usual. I then had 2 on my inner right wrist and 1 on the left, 3 in my abdomen (I think it was 3 - could've been 4; I can never sit up to look as the strain in the muscles to do that makes the needles hurt!) then a few in various points down my legs and on my feet. I think I counted 20 needles when they were removed.

When she felt my pulses again she seemed pleased and said they'd improved. She also burnt moxa on my abdomen again, although she hadn't felt my abdomen first which she sometimes does.

None of the needles were too painful this time, although a few hurt 'on entry' - I really don't like that bit and find the tummy ones the worst! I was able to lay back and relax for the whole time and have felt quite positive about things. That's not to say I think 'this is it' this month, but I generally just feel ok about things.

4dpo today and due to see her again next week when I'll be 11dpo.

Sounds like you have made great progress! I think it's a really good sign when your tongue makes major improvements. I can tell my issues have not resolved yet because I still have the coat in the middle of my tongue, although it's not quite as red in back and on the front.

I wonder what the back needles were for. I know I always get excited when they use a point they haven't used before!

 

[CaliDreaming]

I had another acu appointment today. Today was just acu and no nutrition testing.

She changed up the needles today. I had the usual six or seven in my head. She explained that those were to stimulate my brain and that that is important because the brain is ultimately what controls your hormones.

I did not have any in my feet this time, but I did get an extra one in each shin for a total of three per shin. I got a row of four along my panty line. This time she put the electiricity on these--I guess this is to give extra stimulation to my ovaries.

I also got two needles in my right thumb and one in my left ring finger. She said that the points in the hand can be very sensitive because there are a lot of nerve endings, but consequently a lot of points that can be stimulated there too.

After it was done she asked if I felt any different or more relaxed. I told her I did feel more relaxed and I told her about the slight increase in my libido. She kind of chuckled and thought that it might be because I am more relaxed these days. However, I really think it's due to one of the ten million supplements I am taking these days.

I am supposed to see her twice next week before ovulation. Bad news is that I found out that my insurance is not covering this after all. I only get a 20% discount so there is no way I am going to be to continue going as much as I have been, especially with me seeing the FS. It's sad because I do feel she is helping me much more than my old acu. I am going to tell her that I can go once a week and twice on ovulation week. Next year when my health care spending account is built up I can go much more often.

 

[FireBaby]

Cali - I had the needles in my fingers as well this week.

I just went in for my second session before I Ov tomorrow.

The acu at the community one does a different technique to my other acu - she gets me to press on different parts of my abdomen and find the knotted or sore bits then she pinches certain areas on my feet and legs and asks me if the pain lessens in my tummy - when it does she puts the needles into those corresponding areas on my legs and feet. It took a bit of getting use to understand it and get my brain to tune into my body but I think I got the hang of what she was doing and the session felt really powerful. She didn't use pulse at all which was interesting.

 

[Sizzles]

Session 10 (wow! That means I've spent LOADS on acu!)

I had a pleasant and quite relaxing acu session today (following last week where I stressed that the moxa was burning me!) and acu lady was pretty positive.

She checked my tongue and said it was looking much healthier. When I probed her about how it looked healthier she told me the colour was generally better and the redness at the front (linked to emotions) had gone. Also something to do with a coating that had previously been there had gone.
She felt my pulses and seemed to spend a while over one of them. She then did the needle bit. She put 2 in my back this time, which is a first! When I asked what they were for she said they were in relation to my kidneys and that sometimes something in the pulse is just right for using these points (which is why she'd spent a while on the pulses).

So, 2 in my back (1 either side), 2 in my right ear (upper and lower), 1 in the top of my scalp and 1 in the forehead as has become usual. I then had 2 on my inner right wrist and 1 on the left, 3 in my abdomen (I think it was 3 - could've been 4; I can never sit up to look as the strain in the muscles to do that makes the needles hurt!) then a few in various points down my legs and on my feet. I think I counted 20 needles when they were removed.

When she felt my pulses again she seemed pleased and said they'd improved. She also burnt moxa on my abdomen again, although she hadn't felt my abdomen first which she sometimes does.

None of the needles were too painful this time, although a few hurt 'on entry' - I really don't like that bit and find the tummy ones the worst! I was able to lay back and relax for the whole time and have felt quite positive about things. That's not to say I think 'this is it' this month, but I generally just feel ok about things.

4dpo today and due to see her again next week when I'll be 11dpo.

I wonder what the back needles were for. I know I always get excited when they use a point they haven't used before!

She said the back needles were for my kidneys as the kidneys are responsible for fertility (hence 'kidney yang' etc.) When she asked me to sit up and said she would use some points in my back, I was like 'Interesting'. Then she said I could lay back down and I think I probably looked at her as if she was mad! Lay down on the needles? What! Any way, she reassured me that the needles are 'bendy' and that it would be fine, and sure enough I didn't feel anything. I told her I'd had visions of them stabbing me and going into my body!
I was quite excited for her to be using new points as well!