uhh... breastfeeding an 8 year old??

[smokey]

okay let me just swing this around:

formula feeding an 8 year old? your opinions please?

If it gets them the extra vitamins and minerals because they are fussy eaters and wont touch things like veg then wheres the harm in it?

 

[smelly07]

i'm not even going down the whole BF VS FF and babies dying route.

In my opinion. there is no need to BF and 8 year old or bottle feed an 8 year old.

 

[PeanutBean]

I can't believe a) that this thread has been reignited and b) that I am contributing again!

Some things have caught me though. On the lactose intolerance stuff, here's what wikipedia says:

Most mammals normally become lactose intolerant when they are young; however, some human populations have developed lactase persistence, where lactase production continues into adulthood. It is estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase activity during adulthood.[2] The frequency of decreased lactase activity ranges from as little as 5% in northern Europe, up to 71% for Sicily, to more than 90% in some African and Asian countries.

Maybe that is why these other cultures bf for longer? Or maybe those of us domesticating animals and using them have had lactase ability selected for or perhaps in these other countries there are other environmental reasons why babies bf are better suited that doesn't apply in Europe. Without doing a bunch of cladistics it's chicken and egg in a debate like this. NB. The 'most' humans argument is not really quite relevant given that China has 1/6-1/7 of the world's population alone.

This debate about normal bothers me too as I think the concept is just not being interpreted right. Normal means most common, it's a statistical measure. Norms change based on how the sample changes. What is normal in the UK is to not bf an 8 year old, what might be normal in some particular African culture might be to wean at 5 years old (I don't recall seeing a post here with evidence that it is normal anywhere to bf at 8 years). Normal doesn't mean right or wrong, in fact nothing means right or wrong except the values individuals place on something. Here I think most people are not loving the bf at 8 years old. It's definitely not normal, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I am totally in favour of bf, both mine were/are bf and I don't ever use formula. I am in complete agreement that it is nutritionally best suited for our babies/toddlers but I think that it is probably the case that the prevalence of bf links to the availability of nutritional food and potentially the local racial genetics in relation to foods containing the required vitamins. What's natural is for people to do what meets their needs to maximise survival of their offspring, which may or may not be bf well into childhood.

I'd be interested to see how the weaning age data relates to position of the child in the family. Are mums more likely to wean one child when another comes along if otherwise left to their own devices? There are likely to be many subtleties to the real data rather than some average. Perhaps youngest children tend to bf the longest.

Putting aside that sometimes 'evidence' for one argument or another irritates me, I couldn't care less what someone else does! It's the parental prerogative to do what we feel is best and there are many ways to mess up our children and they are in many ways surprisingly resilient to our mistakes. Maybe these children will go up on the social fringes cast out for their unusual ways, or maybe they will grow up to extend bf their children, or neither and maybe it won't really make any difference either way. Who's to say?

 

[PeanutBean]

But I think the point many people make about breastfeeding is that it is normal for the human weaning age (from an evolutionary standpoint) to be anywhere between 2-7ish, so how is it abnormal for a woman to be feeding her baby a little later than the average weaning age? And I don't see how we can compare that to formula feeding because simply, a bottle had no place in human milk feeding/weaning from an evolutionary standpoint.

Does anyone have any research links about this natural weaning age? I'd like to see how it was measured. I think it is probably impossible to establish such a thing given the social./environmental difference in every culture and I suspect there might be a bias that the way African or Asian women do things is necessarily more 'natural' compared to Western women.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

^ Why?

I would if there was some way of doing it. I wouldnt want a woman to have to sit and be milked for hours though

Just wouldn't lol dont think my kids need it. A normal healthy 8 yr old does not need BM or even formula! But I know for a fact I wouldn't drink or buy any ones BM or me or my kids at this age.

 

[aliss]

I admit this site is heavily slanted towards AP methods but here's a decent discussion on it:
https://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html

Me, I base my "for" argument on that while the vast majority aren't interested in such extended BF (my son is actually bottle fed!), I don't think it's fair for this woman to be called out as basically kookoo for cocoa puffs if she feels her child's natural weaning age continues beyond the social norm.

 

[PeanutBean]

On further reflection some more food for thought.

I'm pretty sure there were no cows in Japan until recently. Comparing historical feeding with Japan is a bit like saying in countries where there are no cows it's not normal to give children cow's milk. Similar applies to Mongolia (mentioned somewhere here) where, I'm told by friends who've there, yak milk is most widely consumed. I don't know the nutritional value of yak milk, perhaps it is inferior to cow's milk.

I wonder if tolerance of other milks is learnt in the womb? If mums have milk during pregnancy they may be 'teaching' their baby's digestive system to expect milk and produce the appropriate enzymes required to digestion. This could be similar to how we teach our babies how stressful the world is and how much stress hormone will normally be required. If that was so it would be pretty interesting. Would it mean teaching our children to be able to diversify their food intake for maximum nutrition or teaching them to accept something nutritionally inferior?

The other potential thing at play is epigenetics where the environment does affect genetics one method of which could be during pregnancy as above.

How interesting it would be to study these things!

 

[Blah11]

But I think the point many people make about breastfeeding is that it is normal for the human weaning age (from an evolutionary standpoint) to be anywhere between 2-7ish, so how is it abnormal for a woman to be feeding her baby a little later than the average weaning age? And I don't see how we can compare that to formula feeding because simply, a bottle had no place in human milk feeding/weaning from an evolutionary standpoint.

Does anyone have any research links about this natural weaning age? I'd like to see how it was measured. I think it is probably impossible to establish such a thing given the social./environmental difference in every culture and I suspect there might be a bias that the way African or Asian women do things is necessarily more 'natural' compared to Western women.

I think its also measured on things like age of losing milk teeth and mouth shape changing and immune system maturity.

 

[Blah11]

okay let me just swing this around:

formula feeding an 8 year old? your opinions please?

i'd say it was a bit of a waste of money since its just cows milk thats been fortified and tailored for babies. dont think itd do harm although it tastes like shit so i assume an 8 year old would rather have juice or something

 

[Blah11]

On further reflection some more food for thought.

I'm pretty sure there were no cows in Japan until recently. Comparing historical feeding with Japan is a bit like saying in countries where there are no cows it's not normal to give children cow's milk. Similar applies to Mongolia (mentioned somewhere here) where, I'm told by friends who've there, yak milk is most widely consumed. I don't know the nutritional value of yak milk, perhaps it is inferior to cow's milk.

I wonder if tolerance of other milks is learnt in the womb? If mums have milk during pregnancy they may be 'teaching' their baby's digestive system to expect milk and produce the appropriate enzymes required to digestion. This could be similar to how we teach our babies how stressful the world is and how much stress hormone will normally be required. If that was so it would be pretty interesting. Would it mean teaching our children to be able to diversify their food intake for maximum nutrition or teaching them to accept something nutritionally inferior?

The other potential thing at play is epigenetics where the environment does affect genetics one method of which could be during pregnancy as above.

How interesting it would be to study these things!

I said a few posts ago, i read something about vitamin D absorption in lighter skinned races that makes them more able to metabolise the lactose Seems to be more an evolutionary thing.

https://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/lactoseintolerance/

 

[PeanutBean]

Thanks Aliss that's very interesting. . I'm not sure about the bf/ff stuff as I don't know whether these studies do or even can take socioeconomics sufficiently into account as ff often comes with lower socioeconomic status which in turn correlates with all the negative things mentioned in that post. The comparison with other mammals is interesting though as a biologist I know that direct comparisons do not always have real meaning, not to imply this necessarily does or doesn't. And i think maybe that's the point. There isn't really evidence either way of a natural weaning age for humans nor about potential benefits of bfing for many years. I would suspect that very extended bfing would be nutritionally advantageous where the child might not otherwise get sufficient nutrition he that because of their environment or their own fussiness but not confer any nutritional advantage where there is adequate nutrition available in food.

So the big question probably ought to be is is psychologically better (bonding, security comfort) or worse (social stigma, isolation, dependence)? Something which is intrinsically impossible to separate from social influence! Lol

 

[FngrsCrossed]

What the?! I have a 9 year old daughter, I love that she and I have a bond and a close relationship; I breastfed for a while with her. I can't see me breast feeding her at her age. When they get teeth breastfeeding is a suicide mission! After 1 years old it's just flat out gross and looks a little like you are some sort of sex-offender in disguise, trying to silently victimize your child. For the love of God, if you love breastfeeding that much, have another "baby"!!! Something should be don't about this, is it just me or is that just wrong?!

 

[aliss]

Nice discussion ladies but I think we're gonna be done soon...

https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/06/18/business/19thomas-600.jpg

TTYL!

 

[ShanandBoc]

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

 

[cherryglitter]

If they sold breastmilk at Tesco would you buy it?

nope, because i don't see other humans as food sources (as an adult!)

 

[cherryglitter]

I found this, dunno if it will help anyone..

https://www.llli.org/ba/aug94.html

 

[fluffpuffin]

What the?! I have a 9 year old daughter, I love that she and I have a bond and a close relationship; I breastfed for a while with her. I can't see me breast feeding her at her age. When they get teeth breastfeeding is a suicide mission! After 1 years old it's just flat out gross and looks a little like you are some sort of sex-offender in disguise, trying to silently victimize your child. For the love of God, if you love breastfeeding that much, have another "baby"!!! Something should be don't about this, is it just me or is that just wrong?!

that is just offensive and I don't even bf anymore. Seriously? was that comment necessary? If mum and child are happy why should anyone else care?

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

What the?! I have a 9 year old daughter, I love that she and I have a bond and a close relationship; I breastfed for a while with her. I can't see me breast feeding her at her age. When they get teeth breastfeeding is a suicide mission! After 1 years old it's just flat out gross and looks a little like you are some sort of sex-offender in disguise, trying to silently victimize your child. For the love of God, if you love breastfeeding that much, have another "baby"!!! Something should be don't about this, is it just me or is that just wrong?!

that is just offensive and I don't even bf anymore. Seriously? was that comment necessary? If mum and child are happy why should anyone else care?

Yup, Comment un-needed and actually ridiculous and insulting!

 

[cherryglitter]

What the?! I have a 9 year old daughter, I love that she and I have a bond and a close relationship; I breastfed for a while with her. I can't see me breast feeding her at her age. When they get teeth breastfeeding is a suicide mission! After 1 years old it's just flat out gross and looks a little like you are some sort of sex-offender in disguise, trying to silently victimize your child. For the love of God, if you love breastfeeding that much, have another "baby"!!! Something should be don't about this, is it just me or is that just wrong?!

that is just offensive and I don't even bf anymore. Seriously? was that comment necessary? If mum and child are happy why should anyone else care?

really not needed!