Dealing with azoospermia?

[Sar187]

It has been a long time since I have been on here again, but I read through everything and it sounds like everyone is making some progress.

Welcome to all the new ladies on here, while this is not the place you want to end up, it is one of the best and most supportive groups I have found.

I would love to do personals but there has been so much since the last time I was on here that its just not possible.

Things have been going well for me, we had an appointment last Friday and the baby's heartrate was around 150bpm and my uterus was measuring well. I am right on track for my weight gain having gained 3-4lbs since I got pregnant. Yesterday for the first time I started feeling movement from the Baby and have been feeling it off and on today as well. I did have a bit of a scare for the first time today and had a little bit of spotting but it didn't last long and the nurse I talked to said it was nothing to worry about. We have our 20 week ultrasound next Wednesday(I will be 19weeks 5days). We don't want to find out the sex so it will just be them checking to make sure everything is developing as its supposed to. Things are starting to feel very real now, which is scary and exciting at the same time.

Sending (((HUGS))) to everyone and hoping things are going well!

 

[Deb111]

Welcome Stinas - I'm sorry you've had to join us, but you have found a wonderfully supportive group of girls

Sar - lovely to hear from you and glad all is well. I'm sure it must all feel more real now you've felt LO moving - how exciting!!

 

[CanadianMaple]

Hi girls, I have been on a break and am feeling better. I will edit with personals after I get this posted.

A bit of an update. We're still waiting for the karyotype test to come back (still) before they will book the urologist. It's driving me crazy. We have been almost so calm, we were detached from the whole process. I went from obsessively googling and thinking to nothing. Dead stop. When I found out he was negative for Klinfelters and he had no microdeletion on the Y, but his testosterone was so low (4.2, 121 in American units), it made me feel hopeful that it was fixable. But, DH is almost 44 and he really don't want to have to wait another 6 months to even see if they can get his testosterone up to even find sperm. I have no idea if they would even try that route. I have no urology background and my constant guessing drives me nuts! If only we had someone sit down and talk to us months ago instead of making us guess via Dr. Google. I can honestly say that I gave up on the thought of having a baby and even got rid of my 4 year old's baby stuff recently. (Son from a deadbeat dad, not DH's obviously. Don't get me started on deadbeats having kids easily and not appreciating them.)

So, we see the IF psychologist on the 18th. I finally made the appointment and DH is really looking forward to it too. He could have seen us before that but work was too hectic. Now that we are going to see him, DH is starting to think more about donor sperm so he can talk to him about that. His parents (and him) are Catholic and once he spoke to them and had their 100% blessing to go ahead with donor sperm, he suddenly seems much more open about it. We are both struggling with who we would tell and what we would tell the kid. Does anyone know if they do Open ID in Canada? I have to admit that the cost, the timeline, the increased chances, is making it seem more attactive to me. I was 29 when I had my son, but got pregnant easily and I want to see if there is an easy route somewhere in this process. But, part of me feels like I am giving up too early. We just need to know what the urologist thinks and if they will even want to do TESE with his testosterone so low. One of his testicles is so atrophied, it feels like a smushed grape. The other one is small but feels normal.

One big question, does anyone know the price difference between doing diui (non-medicated or medicated plus cost of sperm) and IVF/ICSI/TESE? Is it really that much cheaper?

I need to know more about the procedures so that if/when they discuss it with us, we will have good questions for them.

 

[Deb111]

I'm glad your dh is more open to donor sperm now. My dh's very catholic aunt was so appalled by the suggestion of it (she is like a mum to him after his own mum died) and totally put him off even considering it. It is nice for you to know that option is at least there.

In terms of the testosterone, if you were to go that route, he would only have to be on meds for 3 months, not 6.

In terms of cost, not much help as I'm in the UK, but our ICSI side of things was £7500 and hubby's mTESE was £3500, but I know you can get ICSI in the Uk for about £4500 - £5000. Don't know about IUI / DIUI sorry xx

 

[CanadianMaple]

Thanks for your fast reply. I didn't realize it could only be 3 months. But then again, who knows if they even will treat him with clomid or something along those lines. I hate to guess anything at this point.

Here are my personals. Glad to catch up again.

nightdaze- I hear ya on the long wait for the urologist here. They won't even let us talk to one to help us with the whatifs. DH's family doctor refered him in Dec to a non-fertility urologist too so we could talk to someone and we still haven't even gotten an appointment. The waiting game is killing me.

Snd80- DH and I have been looking at profiles, but we haven't paid $250 to see pictures at this stage. We settled on one on paper, but I worry the seeing pictures will throw us off. It's hard. Our clinic only wants us to choose -cvm donors, according to their website anyway.

silverbell- Good luck on your 2ww! How exciting!

Welcome MrsC!

Stinas- Welcome to the group. I found that when we got the dx, we went into a tailspin for the first 2-3 months. But, the girls in this group helped me immensly. This is a very knowledgable group and there is nothing better than having a group of people who really understand what you are going through.

 

[silverbell]

Thanks SB and I am praying really hard for your BFP this first try!!!! I was reading your journal and seen you talking about seeing the swimming on the screen! Fascinating! I hope they will do the same with me so I can see as well!!!! That would be sooo awesome!!!!! OMG, I am getting so excited now!!!!

I got hubby up here over this past weekend and we began to look through my saved "favorites"... and in the middle of looking their site went down. But hubby was not impressed with my findings! He told me I needed to look harder at cheek bones, jaw lines and foreheads! I was like you are too fat for me to even know what your real jaw line looks like! But IDK... I found 2 I really liked as far as hair, eyes and skin tone (hubby is Native American Cherokee w/ olive tone skin) but he thinks I am looking for someone I'd like "to date".... really?! And too, me being CMV-, my choices are really limited!!! So we are going to have another look again this weekend. I am trying really hard to get this done cause I have my annual pap the end of this month and was gonna have the U/S done, and if my good side is producing, I will go ahead w/ the first try. I only wish no I didn't have so much info like you said! I even thought about looking at ones closest to me, but I really want some of "him" in the baby, ya know? Just pray for some piece of mind for us this weekend! I sure need it with him!

Good luck this weekend! It sounds so difficult. It sounds like your hubby is probably looking at too much detail. Honestly - how many of us have the same forehead and jaw line as our parents? These things are rarely noticeable, even if they are similar. You'd have to really sit down and compare to see the similarity, I'd bet.

It wasn't so much the on the screen that I could see - she said it was the white lines that had become visible which were the sperm going down the tubes. I have been thinking about it since though and I do wonder if it was also part of the 'wash' that they put the sperm in for IUI. Either way, I guess the sperm were in the wash ... it was very surreal! I had no idea they travelled that quickly to be honest.

I'm really trying to stay positive but this whole waiting game has its ups and downs. Good day, bad day, ok day, terrible day. They just cycle on random rotation.

Happy Easter lovely ladies. xo

I'm so pleased the phone consultation went so well. It always makes such a difference to talk to somebody who is an expert in all of this, after meeting so many who haven't got a clue. A road trip sounds fantastic and will certainly fill the gap before November. At least you will be doing some proactive during that time as well, which is fantastic. I found anything I could do to speed up the process made the whole thing more bearable.

Yep, the good days, bad days, OK days and terrible days sound oh-so-familiar.

Hello Ladies!!!
It was nice to read most of your stories today...made me feel much better.

I will be 28 this month, DH is 33. We have been TTC for over a year now. I have always had irregular periods, so I knew TTC would take longer than "normal"....after we hit the year mark I decided it was time to see whats going on. All bloodwork came back fine, had an HSG done in Feb, all clear....so thats when DH did his SA. I was hoping and praying it was me, but today I got the news...no sperm. He has never had any problems or surgery down there, so I am hoping its just a blockage, but already preparing for the worst. OB said IVF will most likely be our only way to TTC. Im still trying to wrap my head around everything. Its nice to come on here and read the success stories. I never thought I would be here, but here I am. As DH said, there are worse things in life that people go through, this is just a little bump in the road. Very true, but its just hard. I know we have a long road ahead of us, but knowing I have the support of my loving bnb friends, i Know we will be ok.
Thank you for starting this thread!

Hi Stinas and welcome! I'm so sorry about the zero sperm result. I must say your attitude is admirable. My DH and I fell apart when we had the news and cried for days. I am still not 'over' it now and I don't think either of us ever will be.

Enjoy the thread and its lovely people.

Things are starting to feel very real now, which is scary and exciting at the same time.

Sending (((HUGS))) to everyone and hoping things are going well!

Welcome back, Sar. I'm so pleased to hear all is going well and can't believe it's your 20-week scan next Wednesday already! Wow, that's gone quick. I do hope all goes very well.

One big question, does anyone know the price difference between doing diui (non-medicated or medicated plus cost of sperm) and IVF/ICSI/TESE? Is it really that much cheaper?

I need to know more about the procedures so that if/when they discuss it with us, we will have good questions for them.

Hi Canadian. I'm glad the break seems to have done you some good. It can get a bit much on here when things hit rock bottom and you don't want to bring everybody else down - I've had to take breaks myself. I'm so pleased your DH has come around to the idea of donor sperm. Even if you guys go ahead with a biopsy at least you've got that as another route.

I know what you mean about the easier option. DH said to me the other day that even if he had got sperm, it would have meant sending it for PGD (preimplantation genetic diagnosis) in order to check that the sperm didn't have the extra X chromosome that DH has in his cells (apparently some would have had it and some wouldn't). This is a private thing I believe and would have taken some time. Then there's everything that comes with IVF and whether the embryos developed, whether the sperm thawed OK, whether my eggs thawed OK (as they'd have been frozen to send off for PGD) and it being more invasive ... Don't get me wrong, I wish I had DH's swimmers more than anything but we've fully embraced and accepted donor sperm and we can't wait to get that BFP now whenever it might happen. You just do what you have to do.

I'm sorry I don't know the difference in price in Canada. I hope somebody else can help. I would think if you called some local fertility clinics they could let you have a rough idea?

 

[MrsC8776]

Hi girls, I have been on a break and am feeling better. I will edit with personals after I get this posted.

A bit of an update. We're still waiting for the karyotype test to come back (still) before they will book the urologist. It's driving me crazy. We have been almost so calm, we were detacted from the whole process. I went from obsessively googling and thinking to nothing. Dead stop. When I found out he was negative for Klinfelters and he had no microdeletion on the Y, but his testotestone was so low (4.2, 121 in American units), it made me feel hopeful that it was fixable. But, DH is almost 44 and he really don't want to have to wait another 6 months to even see if they can get his testosterone up to even find sperm. I have no idea if they would even try that route. I have no urology background and my constant guessing drives me nuts! If only we had someone sit down and talk to us months ago instead of making us guess via Dr. Google. I can honestly say that I gave up on the thought of having a baby and even got rid of my 4 year old's baby stuff recently. (Son from a deadbeat dad, not DH's obviously. Don't get me started on deadbeats having kids easily and not appreciating them.)

So, we see the IF psychologist on the 18th. I finally made the appointment and DH is really looking forward to it too. He could have seen us before that but work was too hectic. Now that we are going to see him, DH is starting to think more about donor sperm so he can talk to him about that. His parents (and him) are Catholic and once he spoke to them and had their 100% blessing to go ahead with donor sperm, he suddenly seems much more open about it. We are both struggling with who we would tell and what we would tell the kid. Does anyone know if they do Open ID in Canada? I have to admit that the cost, the timeline, the increased chances, is making it seem more attactive to me. I was 29 when I had my son, but got pregnant easily and I want to see if there is an easy route somewhere in this process. But, part of me feels like I am giving up too early. We just need to know what the urologist thinks and if they will even want to do TESE with his testosterone so low. One of his testicles is so atrophied, it feels like a smushed grape. The other one is small but feels normal.

One big question, does anyone know the price difference between doing diui (non-medicated or medicated plus cost of sperm) and IVF/ICSI/TESE? Is it really that much cheaper?

I need to know more about the procedures so that if/when they discuss it with us, we will have good questions for them.

I just wanted to say that I'm glad your DH is now thinking more about the donor route. I know that was causing a few issues when we last talked. I do have info on the price difference but it's not for in Canada. Unmedicated DIUI would cost us about $750.00-800.00 and IVF/ICSI/TESE would cost about $16,000. So there is a huge price difference. I don't know the cost of a medicated IUI cycle though. I hope that helps a little bit.

Thanks for the welcome ladies!

 

[Pink Lolly]

Hello girls!

I just wanted to pop in and update those of you who haven't already heard my news....


On Wednesday this week we got our on our second DIUI

For all of those using DIUI, I hope this gives you hope as I had always struggled to find many success stories! Stay positive - it will happen

 

[snd80]

Welcome Stinas! Sorry you are here, but we are all here for you at anytime!!!

Sarrrr!!!! Good to see you back! How exciting it must be to feel a real baby moving around in there and not just your wishful imagination! All you azoo girls with your bfp's are a great inspiration for those of us still in limbo-land!!! Just glad ya'll haven't abandoned us afterwards!

CM- Glad the break has done you good! And to your DH finally being open to the idea of donor! I know that was a great relief to you! It certainly was for me!!! The cryo we are using is Canadian compliant. Might look into them... xytex.com. I thought you had to be tested for CMV status before choosing - or +? IDK! But I will tell you from experience that the choices are VERY limited for the - ones! So might check into that as well!

SB- I got you now... but still very cool either way! I think my hubby is over-thinking it too... he is so stubborn! But I think I have finally got him to realize that the basics of hair, complexion and eyes are the best route. I mean he has already told some of his friends we are going for donor, so it won't be a complete surprise to EVERYONE, ya know?

Still VERY excited for PL!!!

to those I missed and hope everyone has a great Easter Weekend!

 

[Stinas]

Thank you all very much for all your support already.
I tried going through all the pages of this thread last night, super long, but I got most of them down.
I'm sure like all of you at the beginning hoped your journeys would not be as long either. I'm praying for a blockage. All of this just seems so crazy and I keep asking myself why. I know it's normal, but wtf why?! I have been ttc for so long now that some people around me are getting preg with their second child. It's all so frustrating.
God bless dh for being a sport in front of me. I'm still in bed and I don't want to get out.
Today he found another urologist that will see him on Tuesday and that takes our insurance. Can you ladies help me put together a list of questions to ask him? I would be beyond grateful.
Dh said he does not want me to go with him, but I have a few days to convince him otherwise.

 

[Deb111]

Great news about the appt Stinas

Don't feel bad about not feeling like you're dealing with things very well at the moment. I think most of us were a complete mess for a good few days and then it took a long time. It's a shock and you are grieving too - don't be too hard on yourself. I know it can be hard as you don't want to make your dh feel bad about it being down to him, so if you need to vent, this is the place to do it.

As for questions, I'm sure the girls will give you some suggestions, but there's also a list of things to think about / ask in a spoiler on the front page of this thread that will give you some ideas.

I hope your dh lets you come to the appt - in my experience, its the women who ask the necessary questions and make notes for future reference and that's so important as this can be complex stuff to take in and you really do need to make copious notes at these appts.

 

[CanadianMaple]

Stinas- I just found out on Dec 1 about DH and I really didn't start doing well about it all until March. It wasn't until some of the results started rolling in. I still struggle at times.

Some questions for the urologist:
1. Can hormones be checked right away?
2. Ask for genetic testing (karyotype, cystic fibrosis carrier, microdeletion on the Y chromosome and kleinfelters)
3. Find out if testicles are the right size and if it feels like the vas deferense is there.
4. They may do an ultrasound if they think it's a case of missing vas deferens or blockage. CF carries will sometimes be missing their vas.
5. They will ask your DH if he had undecended testicles, any hernias, surgeries, drinking, drugs or other medical issues.
6. I would guess they will do hormones first and ask how soon they will come back. If the hormones are okay, they may carry on to investigate a blockage. How soon will you find that out.
7. See if this doctor works with a fertility centre and if they will be able to do a TESE to find sperm or if they will refer you to someone else.

I would insist you go with your DH, even just to take notes. I know my husband never remembers half of what his doctor tells him.

 

[Stinas]

Thank you very much for the fast responses!!!
I will make DH let me come! They told him on the phone that they will do a sonogram to see whats going on. Hopefully they do it on tuesday. He made the calls, so im not sure exactly what they said. DH likes to get things over with quickly, sometimes with out talking about it...so that part is going to be hard. Hes at the point right now where he "does not want to talk about it"....so the more I ask and push, the more mad he gets, so I am just going to smoothly talk about it, because I want to get this all sorted out asap. Sounds bad and rushy, but he seems to feel the same way...or at least he says so.
Im really hoping its a blockage or something that we can have fixed....is that bad to hope for this?
Do you ladies ever wonder why me? What did we do to deserve this?
I rarely cry, but just thinking of everything brings the tears right up.

What kind of road am I looking at here?
Sorry for all the questions....its just I never heard of this before and Im just lost.

 

[Deb111]

Maybe if you explain to your dh that you've been doing some research (it's so much easier if you've got your head round some of the terminology etc so you can understand more at the appts and know more what you need to ask) and you'd like to go with him because there might be things that you want to ask and you don't want to waste the appt and have to make another one just to get the info.

It's not bad at all to hope that it's something that can be fixed, but often, even with blockages, they tend to do a surgical sperm retrieval operation as 'fixing' the problem is often not successful. However, if it was a blockage and sperm production was normal, the sperm retrieval would most likely be pretty easy and you'd probably be able to do IUI rather than IVF/ICSI.

I think I can speak for everyone when I say we've all experienced the "why me? what have I done to deserve this? how come people on drugs get pregnant and the baby suffers? how come people who abuse their kids can get pregnant at the drop of a hat?" and I really don't think there are any answers.

It might help you at some point to start a journal to get all your feelings down - it's also a useful place to record info from appts / research and sometimes just have a plain old rant!

Have you seen the video I put together in one of the spoilers on the first page of the thread? It might help to see some of the emotions and feelings that others have gone through so you don't feel like you're 'losing it' when you experience them.

As for what the road ahead is likely to be ... honestly ... a lot of waiting around in between appts, needing to do a lot of research yourself (the NHS told us that our only options were donor sperm or adoption and here I am 10 weeks pregnant with my husbands's child!), a lot of chasing people up for results / referrals / letters / appts.

But you WILL get through it and I'm sure you WILL get your happy ending one way or other. There are a few of us who have been lucky enough to find sperm, a few who are pregnant or mums of donor sperm babies (all of who are absolutely adorable and their dh's accept them as their own - there has been a lot of discussion on this thread about it not all being down to genetics, but the upbringing, morals, personalities etc - there are some girls on here who have put it much more eloquently than me!)

Ask as much as you want - we all have very different stories and circumstances in this group and there's usually someone who can help you and has been there

Make sure you look after yourselves - it's really not an easy time xx

 

[CanadianMaple]

Finally! DH came right out and said it this afternoon. We will have a baby either way. His sperm or with a donor. OMG!! For the first time in months, I feel like there could be a baby at the end of all of this. For the longest time, it was going to be his sperm (feeling unlikely about finding any) or none. I cannot tell you how amazing it felt to hear those words. I would actually put it up there with when he proposed.

Stinas- I found that my husband was about 2-3 months behind me in processing the news. I would struggle and he would act like it was not a big deal. Or he would ask me a very basic question about the azoo and I would get mad at him because I had been talking about it, with him I thought, for weeks.

I started a blog (in my signature) to vent a lot of my frustrations. I have a journal on a forum I have been a part of for years. I let myself cry, be angry or whatever, write about it and then I eventually process it.

Waiting for results and for answers/appointments is hard. We haven't been able to really speak to anyone yet. We found out in Dec and it will be May or June before someone sits down with us and lays out our options. The financial part is still a bit question mark too. I found it frustrating at times to see the process move so much faster and that was tough.

We are trying to find out if DH has sperm, why his testosterone is so incredibly low and he just told me today that he would proceed with donor sperm. Since Dec, he had been saying that if he couldn't use his sperm, if he had any, we would be happy with my son from a previous relationship. I think that was the hardest part of all, the choice felt like it was all taken from me.

Take care of yourself. It will be hard but it gets better too. Look at every appointment as a step forward.

We're all here for you too.

 

[Stinas]

Thank you both for your wonderful encouragement.
I will be looking at your videos, blogs and journals soon. I have a habit of ignoring the middle part of things and just skipping to the end result. I always want the happy ending but for some reason, I always get delt the shitty card and have to jump through hurdles in order to get it.
I'm dreading all the waiting. I'm very fortunate that my BIL is willing to help us financially with what we can't afford ourselves. Hopefully this helps speed up the process somewhat.
DH talked a bit more today...he still does not want me to go with him, but said ok for taking my list of questions.
I might start a journal myself soon. I want to rant with out driving you all crazy lol.

 

[raelynn]

That is great news CM! So glad your hubby has gotten on board with using donor.

 

[Deb111]

Canadian - that's great news - to just know that you have options must be such a relief

Stinas - journals are great but NEVER feel bad about ranting here

Hope everyone else is doing ok xx

 

[CanadianMaple]

I just a quick question about DH's genetic testing. We're just waiting for the karyotype test now. What would they be looking for with that? I know it's all of his chromosomes, but what are they trying to find on it? Anything that really explains the azoospermia or just trying to rule out other common genetic issues?

 

[SunUp]

Hey everyone!
Looks like we are making progress! A few ladies pregnant, some successful tese's and good news from lots of you )

As for me, they sent DH tese sample to John Hopkins to review! Crazy!?!
Anyway, the TESE was negtive, which they think was related to damage from a surgery he had as a child. They did think there was a good chance for mTESE. However, DH and I talked a LOT, and the risks (I wont go into detail - this is due to the previous surgery as a kid) for mTESE are just not something we want to deal with. Plus, we would have to have donor backup, in case the sperm weren't of good quality. So after much discussion, we CHOSE to do DIUI.

We found our donor, we think. He is CMV+ and I am CMV-, but after a lot more research I am ok with this...its a personal decision and my mind is made up. I know not all of you would agree with this decision but I am comfortable with it.

But from everything we see, it is just too much of a perfect match to my DH.

If my next cycle doesnt start by the end of the month, I will start provera - then clomid - and IUI following

DH and I are soooo excited. We know it might not work right away, but the thought of us having our baby - actually being able to feel like its happening - is exciting


Only thing left to do is meet with the social worker before IUI- DH hates this idea but its mandatory. He thinks its our kid -we don't need someone else giving us suggestions/ telling us what to do. I told him I think we will be more meeting with her to hash out some possible questions and find out how other couples do in this circumstance.

I just can't wait - next month will be our first time, of 'trying' and having a decent chance - and DH is just as happy!