To Train Up A Child - your thoughts? WARNING - may be upsetting to read

[xnmd1]

^^ thanks, i just reported the group as well.

 

[xnmd1]

seriously reading these posts on that facebook group, its almost like these people are BRAINWASHED into believing what they're doing is good and loving!

 

[PepsiChic]

i reported the page too

 

[flubdub]

I found out about the To Train Up A Child book after reading the terrible news story about Lydia Schatz's death (news story here

I just want to add i completely disagree with this "training" method and even as a non-christian, i think that from what i have previously studied of the bible that Mike Pearl has completely got it wrong.

And for the authors to say its based on Gods wills and follows Christianity's true path have a pretty screwed up version of the bible in their hands.

This link gives a pretty good insight to what the book entails as well as the website author putting what the book says into easier to understand passages.

https://theologica.ning.com/profiles/blogs/to-train-up-a-child-an

heres some passages from the book that almost made me cry! (warning some of these may be hard to read)

Once he (the child) learns that the reward of a tantrum is a swift, forceful spanking, he will NEVER throw another fit….If a parent starts at infancy, discouraging the first crying demands, the child will never develop the habit (pg 84)

Training is not discipline. Discipline is the "damage control" part of training, but is insufficient in itself to effect proper behavior. Training is the conditioning of the child's mind before the crisis arises. It is preparation for future, instant, unquestioning obedience. (pg 4)

Children need to be trained with the rod to realize the consequences up front and sometimes this means personal learning/exposure. For example, in chapter 10 — 14, the Pearls offer a bunch of examples of quick, decisive training. Chapter 10, specifically has these examples of things they did: Gun Safety? Place an old empty gun within arm's reach a child , say "No" then have hand-switching sessions. Hot stove? Heat up the stove till it's hot to the touch; open the door to get them attracted to the flames. As they run to the door to grab it say "Hot!" and the kid winds up learning in one try that it is hot. Pond out back? Walk the kid over to the pond and stay behind them as they lean over it and let them fall in. With one child, he actually had to nudge the kid in.

Punishment must always be for things that are punishable. If a child has been fed, slept, has toys, has used the potty and isn't in pain then the parent knows that there is no reason for the child to be crying. This can be punished. If one of those necessary things are in place (say, the child is tired) then put the child to bed; don't punish him. But otherwise, the child, no matter the age, must be trained with the rod—not your hand.

As a rule, do not use your hand. Hands are for loving and helping. If an adult swings his or her hand fast enough to cause pain to the surface of the skin, there is a danger of damaging bones and joints. The most painful nerves are just under the surface of the skin. A swift swat with a light, flexible instrument will sting without bruising or causing internal damage. Many people are using a section of ¼ inch plumber's supply line as a spanking instrument. It will fit in your purse or hang around you neck. You can buy them for under $1.00 at Home Depot or any hardware store. They come cheaper by the dozen and can be widely distributed in every room and vehicle. Just the high profile of their accessibility keeps the kids in line. (quotes from online https://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2001/october/01/in-defense-of-biblical-chastisement-part-2/

thoughts and feelings on this book welcome...

Is. This. For. Fucking. Real?

 

[flubdub]

"The book has examples of a 4 month old infant, a 7 month old, a 12 month old, a 15 month old being WHIPPED! According to the Pearls, ALL babies should be whipped into complete submission and for "every transgression!"

Im crying

 

[flubdub]

One review from Amazon;


"Throughout the book, the Pearls recommend whipping BABIES and TODDLERS with actual whips on their BARE SKIN!! On page 47 they recommend their various whips, including "a belt or larger tree branch"!!! The book has examples of a 4 month old infant, a 7 month old, a 12 month old, a 15 month old being WHIPPED! According to the Pearls, ALL babies should be whipped into complete submission and for "every transgression!" This is insanity.

On page 80 they recommend giving a child having a tantrum "a swift *forceful* spanking" and to whip them until they stop screaming from the torture! They say to continue whipping until their crying turns into a "wounded, submissive whimper." And if the tiny child does obey before being whipped, to WHIP THEM ANYWAY! And "if you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate!"

The Pearls say to hit a toddler who cries for his mother, to whip an infant for screaming, to whip babies who cannot sleep and are crying and to not allow them to get up! And when they cry and scream while being whipped, they say not to let that bother you or "cause you to lighten up on the intensity or duration of the spanking!!"

They describe whipping a 3 year old until he is "totally broken" on page 59, and on page 65 Debi Pearl whips a 15 month old she is babysitting *10 SEPARATE TIMES* for not obeying her "command" to play with a toy!!

The Pearls also recommend ignoring an infant's bumped head when he *falls to the floor* and ignoring skinned knees. They say "if your child is roughed-up by peers, rejoice!!" They recommend pulling a nursing infant's hair on page 7, tripping a non-swimming toddler so she falls into deep water on page 67 and to make children GO HUNGRY if they don't like what is being served for dinner. They even say children who lose their shoes should "go without until they (the children) can make the money to buy more." And they encourage toddlers to touch hot stoves!!!

People taking the Pearl's advice seriously have been investigated by Child Protective Services, have had their children taken away, have had restraining orders issued on them to keep them away from their children, and a babysitter using the Pearl "techniques" has gone to jail for it!!!

Some people claim the Pearls' advice is "Biblical" - haven't these people ever heard of MERCY and FORGIVENESS?? Haven't these people heard of JESUS?? The verses the Pearls quote from Proverbs don't even apply to BABIES - the proper translation of those "Rod" verses means to discipline a YOUTH which means over 5 years old.

This book is not Christian, it is a manual for child abuse that misleads parents, messes up children, and destroys families. If you read this book keep a barf bag handy. And DON'T EVER USE THESE METHODS!!!

The Pearls clearly hate babies, calling them "terrorists" "tyrants" "devious" with "criminal minds." And parents who don't whip them until they obtain the babies' "instant, unquestioning obedience" are repeatedly insulted by the Pearls."

 

[Nimoo]

I REALLY hope no one follows what he says cos hes just sick and disgusting maybe someone should nudge him into a VERY deep pond outback so he cant give any more sick advice the idiot

 

[flubdub]

a quote from the FB page;
"My 21 month old son is just a tough nut to crack! When I spank him he doesn't even cry sometimes. "

 

[flubdub]

**WARNING VERY UPSETTING**

This LO is said to have died because her parents followed that book. It doesnt say so in the article, but other articles say. WHY is it still being sold????????????????????

https://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14371777

 

[PepsiChic]

flub i posted that link i think in my original post. its a truely sad case, and they honestly dont think they had anything to do with it. and i couldnt stomach reading the facebook posts, some of them made my heart break.

 

[Nut_Shake]

Hmm... These people are very twisted and are obviously misinterpreting the bible in a very warped way. They would do it REGARDLESS of this disgusting book, if they agree with beating their children then they dont need a book to tell them how to do it unfortunately... I suppose it gives these 'sheep' ideas though on how to punish their poor little children. Anyway, ive reported it. I feel sick to my stomach reading how 'fantastic' these people think the book is. They have been brainwashed long before this book came along, this book just supports their actions so they will obviously say how amazing it is.

They all need a serious back hand round the head to knock some sense into them.

 

[Nut_Shake]

I just went into the nursery to check on my babies... I actually gagged a bit thinking that these people don't care to cause pain to such small, defenceless, innocent, pure little beings. Its too painful to even think about tbh...

 

[Mrs Mayhem]

I just went into the nursery to check on my babies... I actually gagged a bit thinking that these people don't care to cause pain to such small, defenceless, innocent, pure little beings. Its too painful to even think about tbh...

When I first read this thread I couldn't post, I just had to go and hold Holly so close for ages, it upset me so much thinking that those people could....

it's just so freakin wrong.

 

[flubdub]

Im sure they cant actually mean "whip a 4 month old" They'd be arrested! It cant be right that - surely????

 

[xnmd1]

^^ nope, that's what they mean

 

[redpoppy]

The sad thing is that you can't reason with these people. They are psychologically damaged and feel that they live under a harsh, wrathful and stern/punishing God. They judge themselves probably in the same way and are very frightened to live life without falling into sin. But the terrible and sad thing is they are not helpless and defenceless babies or children. I actually am so full of anger at this and cannot stand to even begin to compute what they mean by half the things they say. I can't understand how any stable mother could harm her baby and feel that such a young child deserved such treatment.

I don't think I've been this outraged in many many years. I hope the authors get run over my a truck, dragged along a long stretch of road then fall off a huge cliff breaking many bones but still live. Because death would be too easy. The number of good reviews on Amazon makes me sick. And there's a photo of the author there looking happy at his good work. I feel sick. Those poor babies.

 

[flubdub]

^^ nope, that's what they mean

No, but they cant. Why wouldnt they get arrested? You'd get arrested for doing it to a grown man!!
Does it say anything about it on the authors website? I dont want to look

 

[xnmd1]

^^ nope, that's what they mean

No, but they cant. Why wouldnt they get arrested? You'd get arrested for doing it to a grown man!!
Does it say anything about it on the authors website? I dont want to look

i think the only reason they don't get arrested is because the police/child services don't know about it.

these are sick, sick people and by looking at the facebook page they sound brainwashed and like nothing is going to convince them that what they're doing is wrong.

Its not legal in canada at all, I looked it up. The law here says you can't hit a child under two or over 12 years old. And if your child is between 2 and 12, you CAN spank them, but it has to be with your hand not a "rod" and its not allowed to leave a mark.
So all people following that book in Canada are breaking the law, should have their kids removed from their care, and should be charged with child abuse ... yet they think what they're doing is ok.

it makes me sick.
If anyone IRL ever told me they followed that book, Id call child protection services on them in the blink of an eye.

 

[Every Rose]

I only read the first post and not the link but the authors of that book are crazy and so is anyone who follows the advice they give.

They ought to be locked up for promoting/committing child abuse.

 

[Every Rose]

This thread has been playing on my mind all day. After I posted earlier I read the links and I just can't believe how cruel or evil some people can be.

I even typed in the name of the book in the book site I use and there are almost 350 copies listed on there (people use the site to catalogue their home libraries etc and talk to other people).

Ten of those people have reviewed the book and sadly they all seem to think it's a great book full of good advice.

I just can't understand how anyone can follow this book. One of the people reviewing it even said that the people objecting to the advice to smack a breastfeeding baby with a stick if it bites the mother have obviously never been bitten, otherwise they would agree.

How can anyone suggest smacking a baby?