TTC 1st child 35+ (Please spoiler any PG news/announcements).

[Dwrgi]

Hi guys, how are you all??? I hope that you are all okay??? Never and Purple-I'm sending huge shed fulls of love and hugs to you both. Hope you're feeling a little bit better, although I know it will take time. Be kind and good to yourselves. Your time is soon, I'm sure of it!!

OH and I had our IVF de-briefing today, and I very definitely got the sense that it was a universal 'Bless her, she's just too old, and with that amh, she can forget it.' The consultant said that it was completely random that we had two eggs; another cycle may have produced 4 or 5, or perhaps 1 or none. I had so many questions about the ovulation shot, and I asked about using a different brand, and she didn't seem to think it made any difference, but at the end she said if we did want to try again, we could try a different brand..... I smell a rat. She suggested that I take DHEA, and, as it takes about 12 weeks to work for IVF, she suggested we could try again in Dec or Jan (although she wasn't pushing treatment). She said my egg quality and OH's sperm quality was good, so it was simply bad luck that we only had two eggs to play with. She also said the other option would be egg donation, which I simply cannot get my head around. (Incidentalment, possible side effects of DHEA are hairiness and aggression-ha ha ha ha!!).

Tbh, I know that I still have a lot of hormones still in my body after the treatment, but I just don't know if I have the strength any more-I am completely exhausted by it all and just want to run away and forget about the whole nasty nightmare that is infertility. I think I have to accept that it just wasn't meant to be. I think it's a good idea to take the DHEA and see if we can conceive naturally, but as for chucking £5000 at another treatment cycle, with about 10% chance of success, I don't know. I am tempted to go back to my NHS Fertilty Specialist and see about doing another IUI-as I am allowed another two as our first was aborted, but I just don't know if I can go through with it all any more. I just need a complete break from it, but as the consultant said today, I don't have time to take any more than 3-6 months off, as, guess what, my amh is so low!!! Bloody pheking marvellous.

And I wish blinking Beyone would take her bump somewhere else.

Sorry for the doom and gloom guys, and for the looooooooooooooooooong me me me post-I am feeling incredibly emotional (drugs) but I have felt like this for a long time now, and I think this is the toll of long term trying to conceive. I need to get away from it, and just forget about it for my own sanity. Couple this with a stressful job (ambitious and high achieveing Headmaster, constant targets to meet, etc. etc), and I am at the end of my tether. This has all been such an anti-climax, after such a build up. And, on top of that, I need to shift about ten pounds of pure fat, after letting myself go, thinking it would help. My arse! Well, as it goes, that is the area of the worst offence, alas.

Anyway, please don't let me get you down. Somebody else may have a completely different experience of IVF, so please don't let me put you off. Sending you all big !
Axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[padbrat]

Dwrigi I know how you are feeling chick... you just look around and see dark clouds everywhere when all you want is a spot of sun just once in your life!

I so felt the same after my last loss... as you all witnessed lol.... sometimes you need to step away and say you know what I gave it my best and I guess this is not what is meant to be for me.... and sometimes you step away and come up with another plan...

I know the ED idea took many months for us to accept.... the only way I could get my head round it was that some other woman was giving me 1 cell.... that is less than we lose of our head every day.... but I will grow that cell and my blood will flow through its veins and my body will build it and sustain it.... there is more of me in it than 1 cell.

That is the conclusion I came too... a hard one... with a lot of thought and mental tossing and turning.... it is not for everyone. We did not even consider it until the genetic and obs consultants were so insistant that it was what we needed to do otherwise we will face loss after loss and I can't handle seeing my baby grow and its heart beat and then all of a sudden see it all still and quiet inside me knowing i couldn't keep it alive.

You rant and post as many me posts as you want chick xx

 

[onmymind17]

Hi guys, how are you all??? I hope that you are all okay??? Never and Purple-I'm sending huge shed fulls of love and hugs to you both. Hope you're feeling a little bit better, although I know it will take time. Be kind and good to yourselves. Your time is soon, I'm sure of it!!

OH and I had our IVF de-briefing today, and I very definitely got the sense that it was a universal 'Bless her, she's just too old, and with that amh, she can forget it.' The consultant said that it was completely random that we had two eggs; another cycle may have produced 4 or 5, or perhaps 1 or none. I had so many questions about the ovulation shot, and I asked about using a different brand, and she didn't seem to think it made any difference, but at the end she said if we did want to try again, we could try a different brand..... I smell a rat. She suggested that I take DHEA, and, as it takes about 12 weeks to work for IVF, she suggested we could try again in Dec or Jan (although she wasn't pushing treatment). She said my egg quality and OH's sperm quality was good, so it was simply bad luck that we only had two eggs to play with. She also said the other option would be egg donation, which I simply cannot get my head around. (Incidentalment, possible side effects of DHEA are hairiness and aggression-ha ha ha ha!!).

Tbh, I know that I still have a lot of hormones still in my body after the treatment, but I just don't know if I have the strength any more-I am completely exhausted by it all and just want to run away and forget about the whole nasty nightmare that is infertility. I think I have to accept that it just wasn't meant to be. I think it's a good idea to take the DHEA and see if we can conceive naturally, but as for chucking £5000 at another treatment cycle, with about 10% chance of success, I don't know. I am tempted to go back to my NHS Fertilty Specialist and see about doing another IUI-as I am allowed another two as our first was aborted, but I just don't know if I can go through with it all any more. I just need a complete break from it, but as the consultant said today, I don't have time to take any more than 3-6 months off, as, guess what, my amh is so low!!! Bloody pheking marvellous.

And I wish blinking Beyone would take her bump somewhere else.

Sorry for the doom and gloom guys, and for the looooooooooooooooooong me me me post-I am feeling incredibly emotional (drugs) but I have felt like this for a long time now, and I think this is the toll of long term trying to conceive. I need to get away from it, and just forget about it for my own sanity. Couple this with a stressful job (ambitious and high achieveing Headmaster, constant targets to meet, etc. etc), and I am at the end of my tether. This has all been such an anti-climax, after such a build up. And, on top of that, I need to shift about ten pounds of pure fat, after letting myself go, thinking it would help. My arse! Well, as it goes, that is the area of the worst offence, alas.

Anyway, please don't let me get you down. Somebody else may have a completely different experience of IVF, so please don't let me put you off. Sending you all big !
Axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Honey first of all no need to apoligize for ranting or how long this is, we love you and we are here for you!!!

Second, i can totaly understand your frustration, been there done that, well not with IVF, but IUI's. I want to offer my opinion, and please forgive me if you dont like what i say, i speak from experiance. First of all screw the doctors and their rush rush rush attitude, somehow i dont think your AMH or chances of having an IVF cycle work is based off of a calendar, why they do that i dont know, i mean if your talking about taking a year or two off, then yeah you might have a problem, but taking a couple of months off to regroup is not going to do a darned thing. I really think you need to take some time to yourself right now, and just be you!!! I also think that you should try the DHEA and another IVF rather than the IUI's. The IUI's are great, and much cheaper, but so much is left to chance, you never know if you ovulated all the eggs, you never know if the sperm actually got to the eggs, at least with IVF they can assist the egg and sperm meeting, and i think you will have a better chance. I have two friends, both did IVF, both of them failed to conceive, they both did IVF the second time, and now both of them have beautiful sons. I think the first time you do any procedure that is new, its very stressful, and sometimes does not work, but the second time, your more relaxed, you know what to expect, and it works. I say to give it one more go with IVF, BUT not until YOUR ready to do it. I hope i did not sound out of line here, i love you honey, i know the depression and defeat your feeling, but i dont want to see you give up just yet. Your a beautiful person, and i just know that you will be blessed with a beautiful little one!! Sending you huge amounts of hugs and love!!!! We can do this!!!

 

[manuiti]

Dwrigi

 

[onmymind17]

Dwrigi I know how you are feeling chick... you just look around and see dark clouds everywhere when all you want is a spot of sun just once in your life!

I so felt the same after my last loss... as you all witnessed lol.... sometimes you need to step away and say you know what I gave it my best and I guess this is not what is meant to be for me.... and sometimes you step away and come up with another plan...

I know the ED idea took many months for us to accept.... the only way I could get my head round it was that some other woman was giving me 1 cell.... that is less than we lose of our head every day.... but I will grow that cell and my blood will flow through its veins and my body will build it and sustain it.... there is more of me in it than 1 cell.

That is the conclusion I came too... a hard one... with a lot of thought and mental tossing and turning.... it is not for everyone. We did not even consider it until the genetic and obs consultants were so insistant that it was what we needed to do otherwise we will face loss after loss and I can't handle seeing my baby grow and its heart beat and then all of a sudden see it all still and quiet inside me knowing i couldn't keep it alive.

You rant and post as many me posts as you want chick xx

Ohhhh this is exactly the conclusion i have come too!!! We are going to try IVF with my eggs, i just have to give it one shot, but if not we are going to do the second one with donor eggs, and that is exactly how i accepted it, its one cell, your blood will feed it, that little one WILL be you. You hear about people that have transplants, and how all of a sudden after they got a kidney or liver that they love certain foods that they never loved before, well the same thing will happen with this little egg, your blood will run through it, that child will be yours. Padbrat, i am so proud of you, your going to make a beautiful mother, and your baby will be just like you and your DH. I too had an issue with using donor eggs, i thought if i used different eggs, no part of my dad would be in that baby, but you know what, my blood will run through it, and that means that my dad will be in that baby.

 

[HappyAuntie]

Hi guys, how are you all??? I hope that you are all okay??? Never and Purple-I'm sending huge shed fulls of love and hugs to you both. Hope you're feeling a little bit better, although I know it will take time. Be kind and good to yourselves. Your time is soon, I'm sure of it!!

OH and I had our IVF de-briefing today, and I very definitely got the sense that it was a universal 'Bless her, she's just too old, and with that amh, she can forget it.' The consultant said that it was completely random that we had two eggs; another cycle may have produced 4 or 5, or perhaps 1 or none. I had so many questions about the ovulation shot, and I asked about using a different brand, and she didn't seem to think it made any difference, but at the end she said if we did want to try again, we could try a different brand..... I smell a rat. She suggested that I take DHEA, and, as it takes about 12 weeks to work for IVF, she suggested we could try again in Dec or Jan (although she wasn't pushing treatment). She said my egg quality and OH's sperm quality was good, so it was simply bad luck that we only had two eggs to play with. She also said the other option would be egg donation, which I simply cannot get my head around. (Incidentalment, possible side effects of DHEA are hairiness and aggression-ha ha ha ha!!).

Tbh, I know that I still have a lot of hormones still in my body after the treatment, but I just don't know if I have the strength any more-I am completely exhausted by it all and just want to run away and forget about the whole nasty nightmare that is infertility. I think I have to accept that it just wasn't meant to be. I think it's a good idea to take the DHEA and see if we can conceive naturally, but as for chucking £5000 at another treatment cycle, with about 10% chance of success, I don't know. I am tempted to go back to my NHS Fertilty Specialist and see about doing another IUI-as I am allowed another two as our first was aborted, but I just don't know if I can go through with it all any more. I just need a complete break from it, but as the consultant said today, I don't have time to take any more than 3-6 months off, as, guess what, my amh is so low!!! Bloody pheking marvellous.

And I wish blinking Beyone would take her bump somewhere else.

Sorry for the doom and gloom guys, and for the looooooooooooooooooong me me me post-I am feeling incredibly emotional (drugs) but I have felt like this for a long time now, and I think this is the toll of long term trying to conceive. I need to get away from it, and just forget about it for my own sanity. Couple this with a stressful job (ambitious and high achieveing Headmaster, constant targets to meet, etc. etc), and I am at the end of my tether. This has all been such an anti-climax, after such a build up. And, on top of that, I need to shift about ten pounds of pure fat, after letting myself go, thinking it would help. My arse! Well, as it goes, that is the area of the worst offence, alas.

Anyway, please don't let me get you down. Somebody else may have a completely different experience of IVF, so please don't let me put you off. Sending you all big !
Axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm so sorry - of course you're having a hard time with all this!! I would expect anyone else in your shoes to feel exactly the same way. I would just encourage you not to make any final decisions for a while - you need time to fully process and mourn what happened with this cycle. LTTTC takes a tremendous toll on everyone, and AC even more so. Take care of yourself, be kind and gentle to yourself, and do whatever it is you need to do to feel better (even if it's putting on another 10 lbs! Do you have any idea how many m&m's I've eaten in the last week?! ). I firmly believe that we'll all just know when it's time to stop, when we've had enough, and it's a very personal and individual decision.

I didn't know you're a headmaster - I thought you were "just" a teacher - now I might have to be a little bit intimidated by you!

Be kind to yourself. It really does take time to get through this. You've suffered a huge loss - the loss of the hope and potential of those two little eggies and everything they represent. And we'll be here to help you and support you, whatever decision you finally make.

 

[Macwooly]

Ladies sending to all who currently need one

I am so sorry to hear that some of you are having such a struggle at the moment and hope you will find some peace

As to treatment options I'm afraid I have no advice or experiences in this area to offer so I hope just sending and will suffice

 

[Dwrgi]

Hi guys, how are you all??? I hope that you are all okay??? Never and Purple-I'm sending huge shed fulls of love and hugs to you both. Hope you're feeling a little bit better, although I know it will take time. Be kind and good to yourselves. Your time is soon, I'm sure of it!!

OH and I had our IVF de-briefing today, and I very definitely got the sense that it was a universal 'Bless her, she's just too old, and with that amh, she can forget it.' The consultant said that it was completely random that we had two eggs; another cycle may have produced 4 or 5, or perhaps 1 or none. I had so many questions about the ovulation shot, and I asked about using a different brand, and she didn't seem to think it made any difference, but at the end she said if we did want to try again, we could try a different brand..... I smell a rat. She suggested that I take DHEA, and, as it takes about 12 weeks to work for IVF, she suggested we could try again in Dec or Jan (although she wasn't pushing treatment). She said my egg quality and OH's sperm quality was good, so it was simply bad luck that we only had two eggs to play with. She also said the other option would be egg donation, which I simply cannot get my head around. (Incidentalment, possible side effects of DHEA are hairiness and aggression-ha ha ha ha!!).

Tbh, I know that I still have a lot of hormones still in my body after the treatment, but I just don't know if I have the strength any more-I am completely exhausted by it all and just want to run away and forget about the whole nasty nightmare that is infertility. I think I have to accept that it just wasn't meant to be. I think it's a good idea to take the DHEA and see if we can conceive naturally, but as for chucking £5000 at another treatment cycle, with about 10% chance of success, I don't know. I am tempted to go back to my NHS Fertilty Specialist and see about doing another IUI-as I am allowed another two as our first was aborted, but I just don't know if I can go through with it all any more. I just need a complete break from it, but as the consultant said today, I don't have time to take any more than 3-6 months off, as, guess what, my amh is so low!!! Bloody pheking marvellous.

And I wish blinking Beyone would take her bump somewhere else.

Sorry for the doom and gloom guys, and for the looooooooooooooooooong me me me post-I am feeling incredibly emotional (drugs) but I have felt like this for a long time now, and I think this is the toll of long term trying to conceive. I need to get away from it, and just forget about it for my own sanity. Couple this with a stressful job (ambitious and high achieveing Headmaster, constant targets to meet, etc. etc), and I am at the end of my tether. This has all been such an anti-climax, after such a build up. And, on top of that, I need to shift about ten pounds of pure fat, after letting myself go, thinking it would help. My arse! Well, as it goes, that is the area of the worst offence, alas.

Anyway, please don't let me get you down. Somebody else may have a completely different experience of IVF, so please don't let me put you off. Sending you all big !
Axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm so sorry - of course you're having a hard time with all this!! I would expect anyone else in your shoes to feel exactly the same way. I would just encourage you not to make any final decisions for a while - you need time to fully process and mourn what happened with this cycle. LTTTC takes a tremendous toll on everyone, and AC even more so. Take care of yourself, be kind and gentle to yourself, and do whatever it is you need to do to feel better (even if it's putting on another 10 lbs! Do you have any idea how many m&m's I've eaten in the last week?! ). I firmly believe that we'll all just know when it's time to stop, when we've had enough, and it's a very personal and individual decision.

I didn't know you're a headmaster - I thought you were "just" a teacher - now I might have to be a little bit intimidated by you!

Be kind to yourself. It really does take time to get through this. You've suffered a huge loss - the loss of the hope and potential of those two little eggies and everything they represent. And we'll be here to help you and support you, whatever decision you finally make.

Flip! Let me put you right there-I am 'just' a teacher, my Headteacher is the slave driver with unreasonable expectations......!!
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[purplelou]

dear Dwrgi, I am so sorry that you debrief wasn't as positive as it should have been. shame on your doctor for making that way!! I cannot imagine how this whole thing must be making you feel and with the effects of all the hormones and drugs on top of that...... I just wanted to send you all the that I can. And also say, as the other ladies have, a "me" post is definitely allowed! (actually as many as you need) we all need those sometimes.

sending you love

Lou xxxx

 

[HappyAuntie]

Well, DH and I had a consult with the RE this morning, and it went really well. I feel good (which is kind of a novelty right now). I apologize in advance - this is going to be a really long post because I'm still kind of processing everything we talked about... I probably should start a BnB journal so I can stop clogging up the page here, but for now this is going here because you're my BnB home.

The RE agreed with us, that this pregnancy threw him for a loop as well. He said as he prepped for this consult over the last couple weeks, he was preparing to recommend we go to IVF. Now that IUI has worked for us, and in the time frame (3 cycles) that it should statistically work for a normal couple, he says we could go either way - either try a few more IUIs or go to IVF - and neither would be unreasonable. He said it's really just a matter of our level of emotional fatigue and how much we have left in our reserves (physically, emotionally and financially). He said it's worth sticking with IUI for several reasons - we know it works, it's a lot cheaper, it's more conservative in terms of drug use and the physical toll on my body, etc. He wouldn't recommend we do more than 2-3 more cycles on it, but it's absolutely worth doing.

We could also go to IVF now - it has a higher success rate so we'd likely have a baby sooner than with IUI, and it has certain diagnostic advantages over IUI - because they have the opportunity to observe most of the process, they can get a much better idea of what our problem is. Because they get to look at the embryos before transferring any, we'd have a better chance of only transferring really good-looking ones and that would hopefully reduce our mc risks. The downside to IVF is it is just WAY more expensive, and physically more demanding. We'd also have the option of using PGD to screen for chromosomal abnormalities if we want to, but it's super expensive ($5-$7k), not covered by our insurance, and isn't all that good at detecting random trisomies - it's used more for screening for known inherited issues, like CF or translocations or such.

When I asked what would he do if it was his wife in my shoes, he said he can't really answer that because he can't get into our frame of mind, he has no idea how it feels to lose 3 babies and the emotional toll that takes. But mc is kind of his specialty - it's where he's done the bulk of his research, and he's kind of an expert in the field (which is why my OB/GYN suggested him in the first place) - and he knows that mc is absolutely devastating no matter when in the pregnancy it happens. With that in mind, he would do whatever he had to do to minimize the risk of a 4th mc, and therefore he would go to donor egg. At that point my mind swirled a little bit... I knew it was going to come up at some point, but I didn't quite expect it yet. I told him so (which he said he understood, he knows it's a huge leap for a couple to make) so once the option was out there, we went on to discuss what our options were other than DE.

So DH and I really have to just sit down and mull things over and figure out how we feel about all this. In the car on the way home, our gut reaction was to go ahead and do 2 or 3 more IUIs (whether 2 or 3 just depends on how many we could squeeze in before Christmas) and if we're not pregnant by Christmas, take January off (because we have a big family reunion at DisneyWorld then that we've all been planning for 3 yrs and we don't want to miss) and start IVF after our vacation. We will meet with the business office later this month to talk about finances and insurance coverage to help us make our decision. The other advantage to waiting till 2012 to start IVF is we can set aside more money in our FSA for next year. (For you ladies across the pond, an FSA is our tax-free health-care reimbursement account - money you set aside from your paycheck before it's taxed, then you get back what you spend on qualified health care expenses.)

As for our MCs, he really thinks we are just dealing with an age-related egg quality problem, and it's just a roll of the dice. He said with my labs and all, he's confident there are plenty of good eggs in there, we just have been unlucky enough to not hit one yet. He said clotting disorder miscarriages tend to happen in late first tri or early second tri, so he sees no need for lovenox or heparin.

(Speaking of labs, I also learned that AMH is measured on a different scale over here than the UK, so my 2 is higher than a UK 2. Interesting. Why do they have to make everything so difficult on those of us with international friends!?! )

Alright, where was I... oh yes. Interestingly, he now says he wouldn't do ICSI on us. Previously when he and I had briefly discussed IVF/ICSI, he said with DH's low morphology/high count combo, he'd do a just-to-be-sure ICSI, where they do ICSI on half the eggs just to be sure something fertilizes. But now, with 3 confirmed pregnancies under our belt, he says DH has fathered more than enough pregnancies to prove his fertility and that we don't have any problem with fertilization, so he doesn't think we'll need ICSI. (Whew! Money savings! ) DH's sky-high counts help compensate for his low morphology, so he kind of averages out to normal. He said if the biology lab reports they're concerned about fertilization once they get a look at everything, he'll make a snap decision to go ahead and do ICSI, but he's not going to plan on it.

When I asked about protocol, he said he'd push my ovaries really hard. He said I'm a good responder "for my age", and by using a lupron trigger instead of ovidrel, he can prevent OHSS. I never knew lupron could be used as a trigger! And I never knew it could prevent OHSS! That makes me wonder why more drs don't use it.... But yeah, he's confident I'd have a good ovarian response, and knowing he can prevent OHSS he wants to push hard to get everything he can - with our mc history, he wants to squeeze out a large number of eggs to optimize our chances of having a couple good ones in the bunch. He was a little excited when he talked about what he could do to my ovaries - it was a kind of funny! But it also made me feel good that he's so confident about my ovarian response.

He's very confident of our eventual success with either route, and it's really up to us. I left the consult feeling much better than I felt going into it - his confidence rubbed off on me a little. And he said the same thing we did about this 3rd IUI working, that it renewed our hopes that everything still works as it's supposed to and eventually we are going to hit a good egg and have our baby - it's just a matter of time, and of not being afraid to roll the dice again....

Sorry I've blabbed on and on. Thanks for indulging me.

 

[HappyAuntie]

Flip! Let me put you right there-I am 'just' a teacher, my Headteacher is the slave driver with unreasonable expectations......!!
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And just to be clear, I mean absolutely no offense by the "just" - I have the UTMOST respect for teachers! Slave drivers, on the other hand - kick 'em to the curb!

One more item, ladies - if you're sensitive to being blindsided by infertility and/or loss when you're watching a movie, DH and I went to see The Debt last night for my bday. Outstanding flick, but a surprising amount of infertility is mentioned in it - the former Nazi they're trying capture is an infertility doc. So be forewarned.

 

[manuiti]

Awwww, HA, I'm so glad you had a good consult and that you're feeling a bit more positive.

 

[NorthStar]

HA he sounds like an excellent doctor, and you have some good options now, so plenty of things for you and DH to think about.

 

[onmymind17]

Well, DH and I had a consult with the RE this morning, and it went really well. I feel good (which is kind of a novelty right now). I apologize in advance - this is going to be a really long post because I'm still kind of processing everything we talked about... I probably should start a BnB journal so I can stop clogging up the page here, but for now this is going here because you're my BnB home.

The RE agreed with us, that this pregnancy threw him for a loop as well. He said as he prepped for this consult over the last couple weeks, he was preparing to recommend we go to IVF. Now that IUI has worked for us, and in the time frame (3 cycles) that it should statistically work for a normal couple, he says we could go either way - either try a few more IUIs or go to IVF - and neither would be unreasonable. He said it's really just a matter of our level of emotional fatigue and how much we have left in our reserves (physically, emotionally and financially). He said it's worth sticking with IUI for several reasons - we know it works, it's a lot cheaper, it's more conservative in terms of drug use and the physical toll on my body, etc. He wouldn't recommend we do more than 2-3 more cycles on it, but it's absolutely worth doing.

We could also go to IVF now - it has a higher success rate so we'd likely have a baby sooner than with IUI, and it has certain diagnostic advantages over IUI - because they have the opportunity to observe most of the process, they can get a much better idea of what our problem is. Because they get to look at the embryos before transferring any, we'd have a better chance of only transferring really good-looking ones and that would hopefully reduce our mc risks. The downside to IVF is it is just WAY more expensive, and physically more demanding. We'd also have the option of using PGD to screen for chromosomal abnormalities if we want to, but it's super expensive ($5-$7k), not covered by our insurance, and isn't all that good at detecting random trisomies - it's used more for screening for known inherited issues, like CF or translocations or such.

When I asked what would he do if it was his wife in my shoes, he said he can't really answer that because he can't get into our frame of mind, he has no idea how it feels to lose 3 babies and the emotional toll that takes. But mc is kind of his specialty - it's where he's done the bulk of his research, and he's kind of an expert in the field (which is why my OB/GYN suggested him in the first place) - and he knows that mc is absolutely devastating no matter when in the pregnancy it happens. With that in mind, he would do whatever he had to do to minimize the risk of a 4th mc, and therefore he would go to donor egg. At that point my mind swirled a little bit... I knew it was going to come up at some point, but I didn't quite expect it yet. I told him so (which he said he understood, he knows it's a huge leap for a couple to make) so once the option was out there, we went on to discuss what our options were other than DE.

So DH and I really have to just sit down and mull things over and figure out how we feel about all this. In the car on the way home, our gut reaction was to go ahead and do 2 or 3 more IUIs (whether 2 or 3 just depends on how many we could squeeze in before Christmas) and if we're not pregnant by Christmas, take January off (because we have a big family reunion at DisneyWorld then that we've all been planning for 3 yrs and we don't want to miss) and start IVF after our vacation. We will meet with the business office later this month to talk about finances and insurance coverage to help us make our decision. The other advantage to waiting till 2012 to start IVF is we can set aside more money in our FSA for next year. (For you ladies across the pond, an FSA is our tax-free health-care reimbursement account - money you set aside from your paycheck before it's taxed, then you get back what you spend on qualified health care expenses.)

As for our MCs, he really thinks we are just dealing with an age-related egg quality problem, and it's just a roll of the dice. He said with my labs and all, he's confident there are plenty of good eggs in there, we just have been unlucky enough to not hit one yet. He said clotting disorder miscarriages tend to happen in late first tri or early second tri, so he sees no need for lovenox or heparin.

(Speaking of labs, I also learned that AMH is measured on a different scale over here than the UK, so my 2 is higher than a UK 2. Interesting. Why do they have to make everything so difficult on those of us with international friends!?! )

Alright, where was I... oh yes. Interestingly, he now says he wouldn't do ICSI on us. Previously when he and I had briefly discussed IVF/ICSI, he said with DH's low morphology/high count combo, he'd do a just-to-be-sure ICSI, where they do ICSI on half the eggs just to be sure something fertilizes. But now, with 3 confirmed pregnancies under our belt, he says DH has fathered more than enough pregnancies to prove his fertility and that we don't have any problem with fertilization, so he doesn't think we'll need ICSI. (Whew! Money savings! ) DH's sky-high counts help compensate for his low morphology, so he kind of averages out to normal. He said if the biology lab reports they're concerned about fertilization once they get a look at everything, he'll make a snap decision to go ahead and do ICSI, but he's not going to plan on it.

When I asked about protocol, he said he'd push my ovaries really hard. He said I'm a good responder "for my age", and by using a lupron trigger instead of ovidrel, he can prevent OHSS. I never knew lupron could be used as a trigger! And I never knew it could prevent OHSS! That makes me wonder why more drs don't use it.... But yeah, he's confident I'd have a good ovarian response, and knowing he can prevent OHSS he wants to push hard to get everything he can - with our mc history, he wants to squeeze out a large number of eggs to optimize our chances of having a couple good ones in the bunch. He was a little excited when he talked about what he could do to my ovaries - it was a kind of funny! But it also made me feel good that he's so confident about my ovarian response.

He's very confident of our eventual success with either route, and it's really up to us. I left the consult feeling much better than I felt going into it - his confidence rubbed off on me a little. And he said the same thing we did about this 3rd IUI working, that it renewed our hopes that everything still works as it's supposed to and eventually we are going to hit a good egg and have our baby - it's just a matter of time, and of not being afraid to roll the dice again....

Sorry I've blabbed on and on. Thanks for indulging me.

Honey first of all, dont bother with a journal, i for one can say i love reading what you write, and would feel very sad if you left us here to write elsewhere, as this is my home, and i dont venture out much lol.

Second, and mind you this is only my opinion, so please remember you have to decided what is right for YOU and your DH, but i would go with the IVF, the only reason i say this, is again experiance lol. I have done 5 IUI's and they told me the exact same thing, you dont need IVF, you get pg with IUI, but from what i have read, and information from talking to my new RE's office IVF might just be the thing for us. First of all with IUI, you never know for sure if you released all the eggs you had, second you never know for sure if the little spermies got into the eggs, it really is like going the natural course, but souped up a bit. With IVF, you can get some help getting the two together, and this is a big one for me, they know right away, if they are not going to work, so you dont have to deal with the m/c problem, of course they could do the IVF and the eggs look good and they put them back in and you get pg and you could still m/c. I guess i am just saying that i went with IUI's and then kept kicking myself for not doing the IVF and wasting all the money, now i have been blessed to figure out that we do have the money and can do the IVF. Soooooooooo now that i have babbled here, lol. I just wanted to let you know what i was going through, like i said you guys have to do what its in your hearts, but if you have a better chance at having a baby doing IVF, why not go for that.

 

[HappyAuntie]

Honey first of all, dont bother with a journal, i for one can say i love reading what you write, and would feel very sad if you left us here to write elsewhere, as this is my home, and i dont venture out much lol.

Second, and mind you this is only my opinion, so please remember you have to decided what is right for YOU and your DH, but i would go with the IVF, the only reason i say this, is again experiance lol. I have done 5 IUI's and they told me the exact same thing, you dont need IVF, you get pg with IUI, but from what i have read, and information from talking to my new RE's office IVF might just be the thing for us. First of all with IUI, you never know for sure if you released all the eggs you had, second you never know for sure if the little spermies got into the eggs, it really is like going the natural course, but souped up a bit. With IVF, you can get some help getting the two together, and this is a big one for me, they know right away, if they are not going to work, so you dont have to deal with the m/c problem, of course they could do the IVF and the eggs look good and they put them back in and you get pg and you could still m/c. I guess i am just saying that i went with IUI's and then kept kicking myself for not doing the IVF and wasting all the money, now i have been blessed to figure out that we do have the money and can do the IVF. Soooooooooo now that i have babbled here, lol. I just wanted to let you know what i was going through, like i said you guys have to do what its in your hearts, but if you have a better chance at having a baby doing IVF, why not go for that.

No, thank you for your input - that's exactly why I posted everything. I know DH and I alone can't imagine all the possibilities, so I was hoping to get some feedback - 27 heads are better than 2, right?

 

[onmymind17]

Honey first of all, dont bother with a journal, i for one can say i love reading what you write, and would feel very sad if you left us here to write elsewhere, as this is my home, and i dont venture out much lol.

Second, and mind you this is only my opinion, so please remember you have to decided what is right for YOU and your DH, but i would go with the IVF, the only reason i say this, is again experiance lol. I have done 5 IUI's and they told me the exact same thing, you dont need IVF, you get pg with IUI, but from what i have read, and information from talking to my new RE's office IVF might just be the thing for us. First of all with IUI, you never know for sure if you released all the eggs you had, second you never know for sure if the little spermies got into the eggs, it really is like going the natural course, but souped up a bit. With IVF, you can get some help getting the two together, and this is a big one for me, they know right away, if they are not going to work, so you dont have to deal with the m/c problem, of course they could do the IVF and the eggs look good and they put them back in and you get pg and you could still m/c. I guess i am just saying that i went with IUI's and then kept kicking myself for not doing the IVF and wasting all the money, now i have been blessed to figure out that we do have the money and can do the IVF. Soooooooooo now that i have babbled here, lol. I just wanted to let you know what i was going through, like i said you guys have to do what its in your hearts, but if you have a better chance at having a baby doing IVF, why not go for that.

No, thank you for your input - that's exactly why I posted everything. I know DH and I alone can't imagine all the possibilities, so I was hoping to get some feedback - 27 heads are better than 2, right?

LOL, your right, its just so funny you are EXACTLY in the same position i was in two years ago, thats why i did so many IUI's because they worked, but they never worked enough that i had a baby in my arms. Its so hard to decided, for me the IUI's were so freaking stressful, constantly going to the doc, constantly wondering did my eggs grow, did i ovulate, did it work, ugh. Thanks honey, i worry sometimes that you ladies will get upset with what i have to say, and please if you ever are upset, just let me know. Love you hon!

 

[Butterfly67]

HA, am glad you had a good consult with your RE and things are looking more positive. I hear what Chris is saying about going straight for IVF and I see the logic in that particularly after what she has been through but also I see that it could be worth doing the IUI again for you maybe a couple of times this year. I think one advantage you might have is your age (you still have a good few years!) so you maybe have the time to do the IUIs without having to rush into the IVF. Yes, there is probably more of a chance with IVF but like you say the cost could be high and if you have time to set some aside that would help.

Anyway, am pleased there are lots of options for you and am sure you will get your BFP

Dwrgi I think I missed your post as have been offline quite a bit recently but wanted to send and although I don't know what it is like to be in your shoes, from reading the posts of the ladies on here it seems that after what you have gone through there is a lot of disappointment and sadness in the immediate aftermath and the feeling that you can't go through this anymore but I hope that given a bit of time and consultation with doctors you will come up with a plan that will give you a little one soon. I agree with the other ladies about donor eggs - in fact what padbrat said made so much sense about your blood and fluids plus placenta and everything being part of that baby and making it yours, makes total sense and I had not thought about that before although I am not averse to using donor eggs myself if I need to anyway. So to you too and to anyone else who needs it, especially Purple

 

[Butterfly67]

To add an AFM

Been going to visit lots of friends around the country hence not online so much. Now at BFs place for a couple of days to try and catch the egg for this cycle.

Throwing some to everyone else

 

[purplelou]

Hi HA, it sounds like your FS was helpful and positive - I am so glad for you!

Please don't feel you have to start a journal (unless you are desparate to have one of course) I love to read your posts and when everything is one place it makes it much easier for us all to follow what is going on with who and when.

I don't feel in a place to offer advice since I have not been where you are at, but I wondered, since your FS mentioned quite aggressive treatment for your poor ovaries with IUI, how different would that be from IVF? would the medication tollbe that different? and is the success rate very much changed between IVF and IUI. it sounds like you have started to formulate a plan and I think Gut instinct is a good place to start, as you know where you are emotionally and physically (not to mention financially) I hope the choice comes to you easily, and does not cause any additional stress or worry (because I think you have had a busload of that) Big

p.s. as for M&Ms - Yummy!! Ive been hitting the salty snacks hard the last few days, crips (chips) and peanuts and Im planning on an alcoholic drink or two tonight!

 

[purplelou]

Butterfly, thank you and big and plenty of back for you!! hoping that you catch that eggy this month xx

wooly - how are you doing with the whatever waggon (no poas/temping etc) I admire your willpower!! and hope you catch the eggy! xx

OMM - when is your appt with the FS, I hope he is a good one who treats you right and you results!!

Padbrat - how long till you go for your treatment, Im sending you in advance so you have plenty for when the time comes!

Dwrgi - I just wanted to send you ginormous are you feeling ok after your appt yesterday? don't worry about the 10lbs - you are entitled and Im guessing the meds have caused it! big lovesxx

manuti - how are you? when is your DH home next - I cannot even imagine how hard it is to ttc in your situation

hi Norstar how are you doing??

Never - how are you sweetie?? I hope you are doing ok and healing. big and loves.

Hi Lava, skye, MA - hope you ladies and your babies are doing good

I am sure I am missing someone- sorry, it's been a long week, if it's you, then and Im sorry xx

afm - we have decided that as age is against a bit that we will try again, I have to do a PT after 2/52 and ring the clinic to make it's negative and then they suggested waiting a few months, but after reading a lot of posts on the site generally it seems that advice ranges a lot from not waiting to waiting 6 months or more...... I don't think we have 6 months to wait to be honest. Im not sure what you ladies think about this or what your experience has been. this has been so hard, but I honestly think I have drawn (and will continue to draw) strength (and wisdom) from you all here! thank you. would be interested in any advice thou'. xxx