TTC 1st child 35+ (Please spoiler any PG news/announcements).

[HappyAuntie]

Honey even i am doing the back and forth thing, as much as i am excited about doing the IVF, i keep thinking, hmmmmm maybe we should do the IUI again, its way cheaper and i can get more of them in, but for me, i am not going to do it, i am going with IVF, and weather i use my own eggs or donor eggs, one way or another i will have a baby!!! Its so hard to decided, IVF is a LOT of money, and there are no guarantees, but did you think about looking into places that have a refund policy, i know we have a few here in IL, if you buy a package, which i think is 3 IVF's and you dont have a baby they refund your money. It could be something to think about, this way, you win either way, you either have a baby, or you get your money back. Its funny because i keep thinking about you and i am like yeah she should do the IVF, then i am like well she is young enough and has the time why not a couple more IUI's then i think no why not go for "The Big boy" and Dwrgi said lol. Such a tough decision, but i know you will make the right one for you and your DH. Sending you massive hugs, and i am so excited for you to try again, i admire your strength!!

I've been looking into them but I doubt we can combine them with our insurance coverage, and I think using insurance comes out cheaper per cycle than the refund program. It's on my list to ask the business office at that mtg. My clinic participates in the Attain IVF refund program, where you pay up front for 6 cycles (3 fresh and 3 FET) and get 75% back if you don't take home a baby. But the absolute p*isser of it is that now that I'm 38 yrs 3 days old, I don't qualify! On the Attain refund program, you qualify right up until age 38. Just one more thing that just really p*sses me off about the timing of our tx decisions - if we'd reached this point just a few months ago we'd qualify, but now, nope. If we hadn't taken 3 cycles off over the summer we would have reached this point 3 months ago. (If, if, if... I know it's not good for me, but it's impossible not to go thru the "if onlys".) According to them, your fertility dives off the edge of a cliff on your 38th bday. There is another Attain program for anyone at any age using their own eggs - no refund, but you pay upfront for 4 cycles (2 fresh, 2 frozen) and it's cheaper than the per-cycle cost of 4 cycles. But I know our insurance comes out cheaper than that program. So I'll definitely ask about it, but I think we'll still end up using our insurance coverage. On insurance, the drugs and every office visit and ultrasound are covered at 85% (so I only pay 15%), the bloodwork is covered at 100% (so I pay nothing), and the actual procedures (ie the actual insemination in and IUI, the actual egg retrieval and embryo culturing and embryo transfer in IVF) are covered at 50%. For our IUIs, we've been paying roughly $350-$400 out-of-pocket per cycle, including all drugs and all monitoring and the actual procedure. I estimate we'll pay about $3500-$4000 per IVF cycle, but I'll know better after we meet with the business office.

As for me being "young" and still having time, I guess perspective is a funny thing. I sure as hell don't feel young. I never ever felt old until we ran into infertility, and now I've felt old since 35. And having a mc just days before my 38th really did a number on my confidence - HUGE double whammy of aging in one week.

Dwrgi - I am glad I give the impression of being strong an4d together - I have done my fair share of crying (more than my fair share probably) I think I was sort of prepared for it to be honest, as bad as that might seem (I think Im a pessamist) I felt terrified and convinced myself that something would go wrong and really couldn't believe that I would be so 'lucky' to have everything go right, iykwim??! we are sort of thinking that if it took 5 months before to happen, it's likely to take at least that to happen again (see Im definitely a pessamist) so maybe all that helps.

...

afm - Im doing ok, had a small wobble on friday afternoon when my GP called, he was telling me that the heamatolgist at the hospital had made an appointment for me for next week, because of some weird blood test result and chest pain I had several years ago. I had to explain that I'd had a MC..... after I managed to regain my composurer we discussed it and decided that I should still go to the appointment as it may have a bearing on future pregnancies. it's really bad on my part but I am struggling to remember the details of what I was told way back when all this happened, so at least the new Doc may be able to help me out with that. I hoping it will be a very quick "everything's fine" type appointment, anyway that's my wednesday morning planned. Luckily I am doing home visits all day on wednesday so I can sneak off to the hospital without it affecting work etc.

ladies, enjoy the rest of the weekend, especially you US ladies who have a holiday I think! xxx

Honey, after a loss there is no such thing as more than your fair share of tears. I've cried an ocean of them in the last 3 years, and I'm sure even the ladies on here without a loss have cried more than a bit as well.

I tend to do the same thing, always trying to protect myself by expecting the worst, and yet it still feels horrible when the worst happens - doesn't really help me at all.

And definitely get the clotting checked out as, if it's there, it could present a problem in future pregnancies, but fortunately it's a problem that is easily overcome with medications.

Big .

 

[Dwrgi]

Hello ladies - I'm just popping by to advise I will be MIA for a while. My depression has got worse to the point I'm back to the doctors on Monday to discuss anti-depressants and I just need to step away from TTC for a while and get myself right but we will be NTNP as long as I can get some anti-depressants which will allow for that.

Sending lots of and love to all and hoping to read some BFPs and sticky beans when I feel well enough to come back.

Take care all xxxx

Take care of yourself hun-am so sorry to hear that you're not feeling your best. Taking a step away from this business is often a very good idea. I hope you feel better soon, and we will all be here waiting for you. Take it easy and put yourself first.

Thinking of you,
Axxxx

 

[Dwrgi]

Twinkle, tahnks for thinking about me xx bless your poor DH - what a way to spend a birthday, although i guess the mans part of testing is not much compared to what the women have to go through.

Dwrgi - I am glad I give the impression of being strong and together - I have done my fair share of crying (more than my fair share probably) I think I was sort of prepared for it to be honest, as bad as that might seem (I think Im a pessamist) I felt terrified and convinced myself that something would go wrong and really couldn't believe that I would be so 'lucky' to have everything go right, iykwim??! we are sort of thinking that if it took 5 months before to happen, it's likely to take at least that to happen again (see Im definitely a pessamist) so maybe all that helps.
so do you think you'll be going with another cycle soon?? and what is DHEA (pardon my ignorance) as for any hairyness - is it all over?? you could be warm for winter if you could grow your own little coat

OMM - I also Ovulate around day 10/11 (according to FF) I have got a cbfm - not used it yet, but might do for next cycle I think, need to read the instructions etc first.


huge to everyone xxx


afm - Im doing ok, had a small wobble on friday afternoon when my GP called, he was telling me that the heamatolgist at the hospital had made an appointment for me for next week, because of some weird blood test result and chest pain I had several years ago. I had to explain that I'd had a MC..... after I managed to regain my composurer we discussed it and decided that I should still go to the appointment as it may have a bearing on future pregnancies. it's really bad on my part but I am struggling to remember the details of what I was told way back when all this happened, so at least the new Doc may be able to help me out with that. I hoping it will be a very quick "everything's fine" type appointment, anyway that's my wednesday morning planned. Luckily I am doing home visits all day on wednesday so I can sneak off to the hospital without it affecting work etc.

ladies, enjoy the rest of the weekend, especially you US ladies who have a holiday I think! xxx

Hi Lou, how are you today? So sorry to hear that you had a bit of a wobble on Friday-it's hard having to tell people, isn't it? It makes it so much more official. But, you have the right attitude and I am convinced it is only a matter of time before you get your for-keeps BFP! Take good care of yourself, your hormones will still be going completely mad, and throw you all sorts of challenges. I'm sure you will be fine! Big to you!

DHEA is the abbreviated form for dehydroepiandrosterone. Can't think why the abbreviate it!! Anyway, it's a naturally occuring steroid that diminishes in women from age 25 onwards. It's particularly helpful in improving egg quality and quantity! I have read of many who had few eggs in IVF egg collection whose egg count have dramatically increased following DHEA. You need to take it for about 12 weeks before treatment to optimise its effect, but my FS said that it had 'spontaneous effects.' Here's a link for you with more information. I wish I'd known to take it back in April! Having my own woolly coat would be fab, plus it would hide my newly aqcuired and very much hated fat arse!!

https://www.livestrong.com/article/100961-dhea-female-fertility/

Hope you're having a great weekend,
Love, A
x

 

[Dwrgi]

Hey Skye-I hope that you are still relaxing by that swimming pool and still looking at the ducks. So good to hear from you. I am a tad worried that you are rushing around looking after your mum, instead of looking after yourself. Take it easy hun, and do what is easiest for your system to cope with. You really need to relax.

I hope your mum is a bit better-we always think our mothers should be these protective maternal people-its'a always a shock when they turn out not to be!! Try not to slap her though-you WILL regret that!!!!!

Take it easy hun, more sunbathing, less worrying!!
Look forward to hearing from you soon, A
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
:hu

 

[skye2010]

Twink Lol Lol!!!! Well done for the bthday boy ) Jizz in a cup and fish and chips great combo indeed ) Have u started the fs consultation for tx yet?

Macwooly lots of love and hugs for you too xxxx. Hope u can shake off the depression soon.

Chris, I don't think your IVF theory is absolutely true. If you do get pregnant with IUI that means the fertilisation happened and the embryo attached. IVF can not tell the egg or embryo quality fully either. The embryologists go by the appearance. They try fertilising all the eggs because untill they actually inject them with a sperm (ICSI) or put them in a dish together with a sperm (IVF) they can not tell if the egg is mature enough to be fertilised. Once they do that if the eggs outer shell peals easily and allows the sperm to enter it means that the egg is mature. Also when they are picking the sperms both IVF and ICSI they go by the appearance. If they are moving fast they are good but there are many that is moving and which one they pick is pure luck. Than they let the fertilised eggs to grow the embryos. If the embryos are developing untill day 5 (Blasto) than they take it as an indication that this embie might be healthy and strong enough to keep going. But they can not tell by the appearance if the embie has any chromosome issues. Only a full chromosome test can tell if the embryos are healthy. I had read an article back when I was having IVF and this woman had her embies. She found out that her best quality (appearance wise) embies was actually had chromosome issues where as the not so good looking one had a perfect DNA make up so that was put back which gave her a healthy bb in the end. If the test wasn't done the embryologists would have completely ignored that single healthy embie and went for the other unhealthy ones.
One other thing sometimes day 3 embies (which are not blasto at all) ends up with a healthy bb. So if the drs think that the embies might decline they do a day 3 transfer. My friend had a BFP with blasto embies that looked very weak on day 3 but spurted out overnight on day 5. So if the clinic did a day 3 transfer they would have been ignored and she might have had a negative.

Sure if the egg quality is poor the embryo still may attach and stop developing over time however this can happen both in IUI and IVF. That's why when you check IVF success rates of a clinic it's better to look at live birth rates rather than BFP rates which is deceptive. But there are other issues that modern medicine hasn't fully established what makes an attached embryo or a 12+ weeks fetus to decline.
Did you have your uterus to be checked for any scar tissue or any abnormalities? I'm sure you have but just asking in case. Cause you actually got pg multiple times but had mcs.

I believe what makes the big difference in IVF apart from your egg quality are :

1) If your clinic is really on the ball. If they can tune in with your body and your hormones and let it behave at it's best rather than forcing it into a schedule. Most clinics give you standard doses of meds and fit the transfer dates to their availability rather than screening your blood and ultrasound scans often to know how things are cooking. That's why comparing your clinics sucess rates through an independent inspection vessel is a key.

2) DNA screening if you have chromosome issues. This is expensive and only necessary if you had mcs related to this issue (like Padbrat's case)

3) I know I'm getting a bit boring but I think autoimmune screening (NK cells and cytokins) can also make a difference on multiple mcs or not being able to get pregnant after many trials. This is not widely done and not fully researched yet. There is some preliminary research on this and I have no doubt that it will be explored further in time. You can google and read on it if you are interested.

Sorry I gotta run so I have to rush a conclusion but I think the success rates of a clinic is the best indication as a rule of thumb.

Girls I'm gonna catch up more tomoroow. xxx

 

[Dwrgi]

Hello guys! Just a quickie AFM post! AF arrived on Friday night-CD23. Guess it's the drugs. But, I've had the worst headaches and I am sure this is down to the IVF treatment. Ugh. Am definitely going to look into the CBFM and am defo feeling like more my fighting self (not literally, though, I must add).

Love to you all and thanks for all your hugely supportive posts!

 

[purplelou]

Dwrgi - Hope you feel better soon hun xxx take it easy and drink plenty of fluids to get rid of that headache!

hope everyone is having a good weekend, Big to you all

 

[purplelou]

oh and the DHEA info - very interesting, thanks for that.

Im doing ok i think, so far today. I have spent a nice day with DH,we went out and had a lovely big coffee with mocha (I stopped drinking caffiene a while back) and then were baked some cookies together, now we are snuggled on the sofa with the dogs watching star trek (Im a complete geek too!) all things that are good for the soul xx

 

[onmymind17]

Twink Lol Lol!!!! Well done for the bthday boy ) Jizz in a cup and fish and chips great combo indeed ) Have u started the fs consultation for tx yet?

Macwooly lots of love and hugs for you too xxxx. Hope u can shake off the depression soon.

Chris, I don't think your IVF theory is absolutely true. If you do get pregnant with IUI that means the fertilisation happened and the embryo attached. IVF can not tell the egg or embryo quality fully either. The embryologists go by the appearance. They try fertilising all the eggs because untill they actually inject them with a sperm (ICSI) or put them in a dish together with a sperm (IVF) they can not tell if the egg is mature enough to be fertilised. Once they do that if the eggs outer shell peals easily and allows the sperm to enter it means that the egg is mature. Also when they are picking the sperms both IVF and ICSI they go by the appearance. If they are moving fast they are good but there are many that is moving and which one they pick is pure luck. Than they let the fertilised eggs to grow the embryos. If the embryos are developing untill day 5 (Blasto) than they take it as an indication that this embie might be healthy and strong enough to keep going. But they can not tell by the appearance if the embie has any chromosome issues. Only a full chromosome test can tell if the embryos are healthy. I had read an article back when I was having IVF and this woman had her embies. She found out that her best quality (appearance wise) embies was actually had chromosome issues where as the not so good looking one had a perfect DNA make up so that was put back which gave her a healthy bb in the end. If the test wasn't done the embryologists would have completely ignored that single healthy embie and went for the other unhealthy ones.
One other thing sometimes day 3 embies (which are not blasto at all) ends up with a healthy bb. So if the drs think that the embies might decline they do a day 3 transfer. My friend had a BFP with blasto embies that looked very weak on day 3 but spurted out overnight on day 5. So if the clinic did a day 3 transfer they would have been ignored and she might have had a negative.

Sure if the egg quality is poor the embryo still may attach and stop developing over time however this can happen both in IUI and IVF. That's why when you check IVF success rates of a clinic it's better to look at live birth rates rather than BFP rates which is deceptive. But there are other issues that modern medicine hasn't fully established what makes an attached embryo or a 12+ weeks fetus to decline.
Did you have your uterus to be checked for any scar tissue or any abnormalities? I'm sure you have but just asking in case. Cause you actually got pg multiple times but had mcs.

I believe what makes the big difference in IVF apart from your egg quality are :

1) If your clinic is really on the ball. If they can tune in with your body and your hormones and let it behave at it's best rather than forcing it into a schedule. Most clinics give you standard doses of meds and fit the transfer dates to their availability rather than screening your blood and ultrasound scans often to know how things are cooking. That's why comparing your clinics sucess rates through an independent inspection vessel is a key.

2) DNA screening if you have chromosome issues. This is expensive and only necessary if you had mcs related to this issue (like Padbrat's case)

3) I know I'm getting a bit boring but I think autoimmune screening (NK cells and cytokins) can also make a difference on multiple mcs or not being able to get pregnant after many trials. This is not widely done and not fully researched yet. There is some preliminary research on this and I have no doubt that it will be explored further in time. You can google and read on it if you are interested.

Sorry I gotta run so I have to rush a conclusion but I think the success rates of a clinic is the best indication as a rule of thumb.

Girls I'm gonna catch up more tomoroow. xxx

No honey your not boring at all, this is all very imprortant information for me. So what would you ladies do in my case, do we go with IUI's again, or do we go for IVF? What you say Skye makes perfect sense, we do get pg with the IUI's not all of the IUI's worked, but 3 out of 5 did. I had the saline test done, they did not see anything, and they said my tubes were open, which they were since we got pg 3 times after they did the test, but do you think the dye test would be better? I will check with the doctor also about the autoimmune screenings also, i have not had them run, genetic issues i know I am ok, i had a m/c pannel run, dh however has not been tested. I guess i will have to wait until friday and see what this new doctor says. Thanks honey for all this information, it was very helpful to me.

 

[Macwooly]

Ladies thank you for your kind words

I've seen the doctor and have an appointment with a counsellor later today so we're going to try a couple of weeks of counselling twice a week initially before trying anti-depressants as they can take 4-6 weeks to show a positive effect anyway.

So I'll be lurking still a bit especially as we're going to NTNP for a couple of months whilst I work on me so won't be much to report apart from when AF arrives.

Sending loads of and love to all x

 

[Butterfly67]

Good to see you Wooly. Counselling sounds like a great idea so fingers crossed for that working well for you. Big for you and the dogs xx

 

[purplelou]

wooly, nice to see you. You lurk as much as you want /need to. it sounds like you are looking after yourself which is good, I hope the counselling helps and that you are feeling at peace very soon. Big and keep in touch xx

 

[skye2010]

Chris best find a clinic that has very firm live birth results and go along with their suggestions. Dye test and laparoscopy does 2 different things but you wouldn't have been pregnant at all if your tubes were blocked (your eggs obviously can travel along the tubes to meet the sperm) So dye test is irrelevant. IVF has a hysterescopy step which scrapes all the scar tissue inside the womb. ???? Also we had a lovely girl here "Hearty" who had adonometrisis. Not sure the exact medical explanation but she had abnormal lumps in her uterus which made her have multiple mcs. She had very painful periods. Maybe that doesn't apply to you. Worth raising the question to your fs if there might be sthg in your uterus causing mc? C what he says...
Going for a very very good clinic is a good idea so you know all their tx is worth your money. Perhaps you end up paying more but at least you don't waste your health money or time. The drs in the UK didn't even count my IVF in Turkey. They said it looked unprofessional.
I gotta run sorry. Will catch up later on today or tomorrow morning. xxxx

 

[twinkle1975]

Wooly - huge hugs xxxxx

 

[lavalux]

That sounds like a great idea, Macwooly. If you do need to take anti-depressants, be patient while they find the right one & dose. I have taken Welbutrin (Budeprion is the generic drug - both safe for TTC & pregnancy) and there was a time when I could honestly say it saved my life. I am a huge advocate of counseling as well. We consult specialists every day ... why not for our mental health. Big hugs while you sort this out and may you.come out stronger & more at peace.

 

[onmymind17]

Ladies thank you for your kind words

I've seen the doctor and have an appointment with a counsellor later today so we're going to try a couple of weeks of counselling twice a week initially before trying anti-depressants as they can take 4-6 weeks to show a positive effect anyway.

So I'll be lurking still a bit especially as we're going to NTNP for a couple of months whilst I work on me so won't be much to report apart from when AF arrives.

Sending loads of and love to all x

I am glad that your seeking help, i hope that the councellor will be able to help you, but honey there is no need to lurk unless you want to, you have lots of things to report, we are not just about babies you know, i am sure you have lots of fun interesting things that you do besides that. Sometimes i get so sad when i realize that all we do and think about is TTC, when there is so much more to us than that. I think your a wonderful amazing women!!! And you feel free to pop on and give me any and all advice you want!!

 

[onmymind17]

Chris best find a clinic that has very firm live birth results and go along with their suggestions. Dye test and laparoscopy does 2 different things but you wouldn't have been pregnant at all if your tubes were blocked (your eggs obviously can travel along the tubes to meet the sperm) So dye test is irrelevant. IVF has a hysterescopy step which scrapes all the scar tissue inside the womb. ???? Also we had a lovely girl here "Hearty" who had adonometrisis. Not sure the exact medical explanation but she had abnormal lumps in her uterus which made her have multiple mcs. She had very painful periods. Maybe that doesn't apply to you. Worth raising the question to your fs if there might be sthg in your uterus causing mc? C what he says...
Going for a very very good clinic is a good idea so you know all their tx is worth your money. Perhaps you end up paying more but at least you don't waste your health money or time. The drs in the UK didn't even count my IVF in Turkey. They said it looked unprofessional.
I gotta run sorry. Will catch up later on today or tomorrow morning. xxxx

Thanks honey, and your right, i know my tubes must be open, but do you think a dye test would show something in the uterus that the saline test did not? I guess it could just be old eggs, with chromosonal problems, i mean i am not the only one that has had multipal m/c you know. See my thing with IVF, is what if with the IUI's i dont release all the eggs that they are showing there, or what if maybe my eggs are a bit tougher for the sperm to get in there, thats where i think IVF could help. Ugh so confusing. Thanks so much for all this info, it really helps me get things ready to see the doctor on friday.

Dwrgi, can i ask how much DHEA did your doctor say to take? I bought some this weekend, and I am going to start taking it in preperation for our next cycle, but i do not have any idea how much i should take. I have 50 mg tablets right now.

Good morning all my other lovely ladies, yeah for a holiday in the US!!! I hope all of you are well, and i am sending big to all of you!!

 

[twinkle1975]

Help - I'm in danger of falling off the wagon - I've got really sore nipples (sorry!) which I've never had before & a tiny weeny bit of me has got my hopes up. Drag me back on quick!!!

 

[skye2010]

Twinks here is a looong rope hold on and hop on sweeets. I'll tie u in xxxxxx

 

[Butterfly67]

Help - I'm in danger of falling off the wagon - I've got really sore nipples (sorry!) which I've never had before & a tiny weeny bit of me has got my hopes up. Drag me back on quick!!!